Shiny Happy People Docuseries

[mjkacmom]

Same with the Catholic church. They have you go talk to the priest to get marriage counseling before they will marry you. And I always thought, how the heck would a priest know anything about marriage? The older generation of my family were Catholic but most of us in my generation have realized what a sham it all is. But they would push us to get married in the church so we knew about the "counseling". My cousin did and she told us about how the priest asked invasive questions like if they were already having sex and if she was on birth control, etc. It is all just so creepy and none of their business.

I went to precana, overnight weekend retreat, it was fine (although I was taken back that I was dorming with another woman and not my fiancé, looking back I was an idiot). It was run by volunteers, my IL’s used to run some (second marriage for both). I think marriage pre counseling is a good idea. The Catholic Church is almost 2000 years old and the original Christian religion, not a trendy cult trying for new members. Catholics are either both in or marry in (and it’s a ton of time and effort to go through all of the steps, I know some who converted). There are so many other religions out there if one doesn’t work for someone and their beliefs.

 

[mjkacmom]

But how are random couples qualified to counsel? I’ve been married for 43 years but when anyone asks me how we’ve made it work, I’m . My DH responds with, “be kind. That’s all I’ve got. We’re both just really kind to each other.” (Actually he’s truly kind. I need work at times)

They go through it themselves and get training. We also went to natural family planning but failed miserably (got pregnant 4 months after we got married, we were together almost 6 years so not the end of the world).

 

[Lilsia]

The Catholic Church does have married couples who help to prepare couples for marriages. In parishes that I have been in, the priest immediately refers the engaged to a married couple for the counseling.

The priest will meet with the engaged a couple of times, but not for the counseling sessions.

Clearly not all parishes.

 

[Lilsia]

I went to precana, overnight weekend retreat, it was fine (although I was taken back that I was dorming with another woman and not my fiancé, looking back I was an idiot). It was run by volunteers, my IL’s used to run some (second marriage for both). I think marriage pre counseling is a good idea. The Catholic Church is almost 2000 years old and the original Christian religion, not a trendy cult trying for new members. Catholics are either both in or marry in (and it’s a ton of time and effort to go through all of the steps, I know some who converted). There are so many other religions out there if one doesn’t work for someone and their beliefs.

Nobody said that cults need to be "trendy" and how long they have been around has no bearing on if it is a cult or not. If you are expected to follow their dogma and live your life how they want you to, that is a cult. Again, 2000 years is not a long time in human history.

 

[TippyThomas]

But I am talking about just ALL religion in general too. Those who live typical lives and have access to science and education other than the church. How do all of those people still fall for the big lie?

I grew up Mennonite, so I didn't have much exposure outside of that. I can see how easily it would be for people to be tricked, controlled, abused, and any other word you want to use when things are so controlled by elders, Bishops and so on. I was pretty shocked out how different life really was outside of my community when I left. Lack of exposure can allow for lots of control, especially if people strongly want to believe so they can get all the gifts promised if they'd just live correctly. Strong argument.

 

[DLgal]

Nobody said that cults need to be "trendy" and how long they have been around has no bearing on if it is a cult or not. If you are expected to follow their dogma and live your life how they want you to, that is a cult. Again, 2000 years is not a long time in human history.

To be fair, the true definition of a cult is a smaller subsect of a larger religion that has extreme or dangerous beliefs.

That said, I agree with you that most modern organized religions are basically cults, because in MY opinion, they do all promote extreme beliefs that often become dangerous. Anything that creates and promotes an "Us vs. Them" mentality is dangerous, IMO.

 

[Pink Partridge]

I do think that any organization that urges people to give blindly can be cult like. To tithe and then have someone decide what they do with MY money is something I would never do,

I don't know how people don't see through Joel Osteen and his wife and their riches (that apparently God wants them to have, as others starve )

 

[DLgal]

I do think that any organization that urges people to give blindly can be cult like. To tithe and then have someone decide what they do with MY money is something I would never do,

I don't know how people don't see through Joel Osteen and his wife and their riches (that apparently God wants them to have, as others starve )

I cannot wrap my head around people that literally have to subsist on rice and beans but still will give 10% of their money to the church. Boggles my mind.

 

[PollyannaMom]

But I am talking about just ALL religion in general too. Those who live typical lives and have access to science and education other than the church. How do all of those people still fall for the big lie?

I think there are a lot of people who really don't believe quite everything taught by their religion, but stay with it because it fulfills other needs that have yet to be replaced by secular versions - among them comfort in difficult situations, a sense of ritual/tradition, and a feeling of belonging.

 

[NotUrsula]

I think that my definition of what makes any activity cultish is if the organization actively tries to prevent access to information from any source other than that the organization controls and/or fully approves of. Any membership organization that says that an adult member cannot access a television, a radio, a telephone, or these days, internet access at large (not particular sites, which providers often ban for security reasons), and which works to enforce those restrictions, either by force or community coercion, qualifies in my book.

Catholicism in general, IME, may have many things it will tell me I -should- do, but it will not attempt to actively force me to do them or publicly shame me if I do not, and at no time has the Church ever told me that I could not have access to whatever news media I wanted. (In fact, IME, most priests are likely to frequently update a congregation on major sports scores during Mass if the game conflicts with the service time.)

Generally, people who are paid members of a religious organization do agree to more behavioral rules, but most of our employers have rules that we agree to honor, so that seems relatively reasonable as long as the agreement is made clear when the job is taken.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

At 18, Josh continued his sexual assaults, as well as moved on to explicit child pornography. For the most part, you can't rehabilitate a repeat sexual offender. He digitally penetrated his 5 year old sister and abused the other girls over and over again. For years.

You have to make a choice in instances like this. I would not choose to ever welcome the abuser back in the home.

Which is fine, but because that is your child you have a responsibility to them until they are of age. Kind of a you created the monster, you deal with it sort of thing. Abandonment would be grounds for legal repercussions. But based on a few comments, legal repercussion may be better for some than continuing a relationship with their child.

 

[butterscotchcollins]

There was a time when I would be all in on a juicy, scandalous exposé but now that I have a kid I can’t watch anything to do with child abuse or kids getting hurt/being unsafe. Even some of the comments in this thread have absolutely turned my stomach.

It is HORRIFYING what we let happen to children in this country.

 

[Suger Mag]

@LilyWDW - I'll be awaiting your Haha or Angry face.

View attachment 767986View attachment 767987

wow... that is some dedication... I feel like the last line got switched for each column. My obsessive need for symmetry wants it all HA HA on one side and ANGRY on the other

There is this one factory near my home with two rows of cherry trees... 19 are light pink.... and 1 is dark pink... annoys the heck out of me... but NVM I digress....

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

wow... that is some dedication... I feel like the last line got switched for each column. My obsessive need for symmetry wants it all HA HA on one side and ANGRY on the other

There is this one factory near my home with two rows of cherry trees... 19 are light pink.... and 1 is dark pink... annoys the heck out of me... but NVM I digress....

Maybe I'll get some more to even it out lol

 

[Pink Partridge]

Which is fine, but because that is your child you have a responsibility to them until they are of age. Kind of a you created the monster, you deal with it sort of thing. Abandonment would be grounds for legal repercussions. But based on a few comments, legal repercussion may be better for some than continuing a relationship with their child.

But you are missing where people are explaining to you they would not be abandoning their abusive teenager.

You would have the law intervene. The molester would go to a place that homes teens who rape their young family members. Sending your child away would be the responsible thing to do.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Same with the Catholic church. They have you go talk to the priest to get marriage counseling before they will marry you. And I always thought, how the heck would a priest know anything about marriage? The older generation of my family were Catholic but most of us in my generation have realized what a sham it all is. But they would push us to get married in the church so we knew about the "counseling". My cousin did and she told us about how the priest asked invasive questions like if they were already having sex and if she was on birth control, etc. It is all just so creepy and none of their business.

It's super creepy. And one of many reasons that we chose not to marry in a Catholic Church....the biggest of which is that we're non-believers. I have a story...a bit long, so apologies, but it's been weighing heavily on my mind/heart since it happened earlier this week.

A big religious "bru-haha" has just occurred in my family....between my husband and his father....I was referenced in the whole thing as well. DH and I are lapsed-catholics and don't practice any religion. However, his parents were/remain devout catholics. To the degree that they believe in Adam and Eve, the rib, the ark....the whole shabang. His mother passed in November, and so his very healthy 91 year old father is his only parent. Over the years, we never discussed religion. We always respected *their* religion in that....it's the way they've chosen to live their lives and we respect that. They have always known that we do not go to church and that we're not religious people. One of the reasons that we chose a destination wedding was that neither of us wanted to be married in a catholic church. So, we found some pastor on the internet, literally just "because" it was between a justice of the peace and the other deal.....we spoke about what he'd say ahead of time and let's just say...it was very light on religion.

Now we jump forward 25 years..... to this last week in discussing plans for Father's Day. We initially planned on taking him out to dinner, but he said he'd like to eat at home since it's busy on Saturdays in restaurants. Ok fine, we'll bring dinner. Then he says that after dinner he'd like for us to stay and watch a movie with him. Also fine....not a request he's ever made before, but I read it as a request for more time with us on Father's Day. Perfectly acceptable request. And then...he revealed what we'd be watching. The Perfect Stranger, my dinner with Jesus.

The first conversation about the plans was between my husband and his father....and DH said that he said back to him, "well, we can talk about the movie we'll watch later".....and my FIL then came right back, "No! That's the movie I want, and it's Father's Day, and that's what we're watching!" DH kind of chuckles, said his father was "wound up" about this...then gets off the phone. Keep in mind....we're in our mid-50s. DH tells me about the convo, we look up this movie and it's straight up christian propaganda. It would be a movie to show teens in a CCD setting, or for super religious people....to reinforce their beliefs, or I suppose...to show heathens like his son and DIL to try and flip us...lol.

We talked it over and came to the conclusion that he's near the end of his own life, thinking about his wife and where he believes she is...or soon will be (heaven), and about himself joining her, and I guess...thinking that he'd better turn us into believers too...before he passes. We decided that all of this is fine, and we said we'd just sit through this horribly produced/awful movie...for him. But, my DH said that it's a movie designed to promote discussion, and so he wanted to clear up the motive behind the movie choice....before we got there to get the discussion part out of the way. And that since his father is pushing the issue, he needed to be honest with him....that he's not going to lie about believing in Jesus at the end of this movie. I said..."he knows we're not believers, how could he possibly think otherwise". And on this...I'm adamant...he's have to be just utterly oblivious to have thought otherwise...for the last 28 years that I've been around. The only time I've ever been to church with my in-laws....is for funeral masses. Never for any holiday....ever.

I was present for the "bru-haha" conversation....it was on speaker. I did not speak, but heard it all while I was cleaning up in the kitchen. DH confirms time we'll be there, FIL says great, and then tries to nail down the movie. DH says, we'll watch it but..."what's the thinking behind the movie choice." FIL says, "it's a wonderful movie, you'll love it, it's not religious". And that's when DH pushes back...to say, of course it's religious. FIL says....no it's not, and DH then says, "Dad, you know we don't believe in all of that, so why are you doing this now?" And FIL shouts back..."what did you say?!? Are you saying that you don't believe in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!?! (he's shouting). DH says...."Dad, you know that.". FIL...."Where do you think you're going when you die?". DH: "Nowhere, I'm just going to die and go nowhere.". FIL: "You and (insert my name) must repent!!" DH, "Dad....why are you doing this now? Let's talk about that." FIL: "Forget it!! We don't have to watch the movie!! Don't even bother coming!!!" And hangs up.

I give my husband all the credit in the world. He let this roll off his back and said to me....standing in the kitchen with my mouth open...."I'll give him time to cool off and call him tomorrow." Me..."okay"....just letting him handle it. FIL called back later that evening, apologized for hanging up (but the the "you're going to hell part") and said dinner is back on...no movie. My husband accepted the apology, and we are going. But then....*I* got pretty peeved over all of it.

My FIL is a good man and I respect him, but he's not someone who I'd consider a deep thinker. He just accepts his religion at face value. We've always respected that. But now he's greatly disrespected *us*. That my husband's own father could look at his son, who is an extraordinary human being....and actually believe that his god would send him to hell.....well, I mean, if that doesn't perhaps make you take a deeper look at your religion, I'm not sure what would. However, we will go and spend time with him on Father's Day, and show him something that I believe is pretty big in chhisitianity.....it's called grace.

 

[nancipants]

That my husband's own father could look at his son, who is an extraordinary human being....and actually believe that his god would send him to hell.....well, I mean, if that doesn't perhaps make you take a deeper look at your religion, I'm not sure what would.

This - and also that they'd think a horrible person was going to heaven just because they believe in the right God.

 

[Pink Partridge]

My FIL is a good man and I respect him, but he's not someone who I'd consider a deep thinker. He just accepts his religion at face value.

Please be careful that nobody from his church has secretly gotten a hold of him and his finances. A cousin of mine just went through this last year when her remaining parent passed away. In this case, it was her mother who embraced her religion in a very aggressive manner for her last 2 years alive. People from the church coming and going constantly to her condo.

Let's just say there were A LOT of surprises when she died. She had quite a bit to her name. Her will was changed. The church got everything.

 

[momz]

Please be careful that nobody from his church has secretly gotten a hold of him and his finances. A cousin of mine just went through this last year when her remaining parent passed away. In this case, it was her mother who embraced her religion in a very aggressive manner for her last 2 years alive. People from the church coming and going constantly to her condo.

Let's just say there were A LOT of surprises when she died. She had quite a bit to her name. Her will was changed. The church got everything.

huge red flags here! I've heard of people leaving things to a church in their will. I think that's fine if the decision was made well before the end of life. But coercing people like this is sickening. And I honestly don't know what theology would defend those actions. It's not right.

 

[Moliphino]

This - and also that they'd think a horrible person was going to heaven just because they believe in the right God.

Catholics, at least, don't believe you get into heaven just by being Catholic. Some other Christian denominations might.