Shanghai Trouble?

Wondering why the issue is so pronounced in Shanghai, but not in Hong Kong.

I remember when the Chinese were given control of Hong Kong...

It was 1999 and I watched it on CNN...

Hong Kong is a "special economic zone" featuring some of the most valuable real estate on earth...

Long story short...the Chinese have more to gain buy continuing it as an "western" enclave than changing the economic philosophy drastically.
 
Wait a second... Did I just read somebody suggest the Chinese government is scared of the US? Or they wouldn't dare cross the mighty lawyers of Mickey Mouse?

Sometimes The Lord of the rings is more plausible around here.
 
The chief issue is we seem to think that Western culture can be exported just about anywhere, and for the most part it can - except China. I recall reading somewhere that the most successful US companies in China all sell essentials or staples. Proctor & Gamble is doing well (at least it was when I read the article) simply because most people wash their hair regardless of where they come from. Disney is selling entertainment, which as others have said is defined very differently over there versus over here.

I had anticipated that Disney would be successful in the People's Republic, but it looks like it remains to be seen. If it fails I wonder how long it will take for them to pack their bags and head over to Seoul or Busan…
 
I hope this won't end up like the time Disneyland Paris first opened and alot of people hated the place during it's earlier years.
 

From the get go the design of this park is different than any other Disney park before it. They won't have a Main Street. Now they won't have the plaque referencing Walt Disney because the Chinese don't know who he is. I highly doubt Disney would do this deal again if they knew what they do know.
How could they not know about Walt Disney?
 
It's shocking. The whole point of the park is to introduce Walt Disney to China. I mean that's the idea. Or at least that's what Disney thought. Shanghai could care less about Disney.

I'm going to assume there won't be a dedication plaque with Iger at the rate it's going. Those people don't know what they're missing though. Their park will omit the timeless words "Here you leave today and enter the world of yesterday, tomorrow and fantasy." It's almost criminal. It's not even a Magic Kingdom without them.
As a long time Disney fan, this hurts me badly! Everyone knows Disney, but the people in Shangahi (And the rest of China) will never experience the magical memories there unlike the other Disney parks. I'm actually very worried about how it will turn out on opening.
 
I almost wonder if the park will become a generic theme park within a few decades of opening. Or maybe it'll simply fall into disrepair and eventually be abandoned.
It's a sad imagine when you think about the place being abandoned.
 
China is a graveyard of theme parks and tourist attractions. It's been almost 10 years since I was there, but I saw some pretty bizarre things.

One of the first news stories I saw on English-language China TV new channel was about water parks in Shanghai. At least 12 were built in a very short time, and only a year or so later every one of them except one was closed. The one that was still open was part of a condo development scheme which still needed some kind of magnet to attract buyers.

In one of the cities we visited there was a brand new museum of Chinese art. This was a huge museum with stunning architecture and very classy, expensive details such as marble flooring and a gigantic carved stone frieze that must have been 100 feet long and 20 feet high. And there was not one single person visiting it except us. Only one other person who wasn't a staff member was on the property ... a local who was walking his dog on the marble-paved garden paths. The ticket takers looked fairly surprised to see us ... a platoon of guards followed us through the exhibits. I estimate they had about a billion $ worth of building and art ... basically gathering dust.

In the same town we saw a museum of folk art advertised in the glossy information book placed in the hotel room. With color pictures and everything. The taxi driver just frowned and told us there was no such thing. We told him the street address so he shrugged and took us there. There was literally nothing. There was big, empty building at that address but you wouldn't have guessed it was a museum, and evidently it wasn't. Just a big locked door and when we peeked through the cracks it was just a big empty room with no furniture, just scaffolding and fresh plaster but no workers, no nothing.

In a nearby town there was an important archaeological site, an ancient city whose only remains were a large moat. Sort of an ancient Troy type of thing that I wanted to see because I like archaeology and ancient stuff. But the taxi took me to something bizarre that wasn't mentioned in any book or brochure. A kilometer or so from the actual ancient site they were building an entire, full-sized replica of the city ... with authentic materials and techniques. They had maybe 1/4 of it complete. There was part of a huge stone wall, a massive gate and maybe a dozen massive buildings inside which were chock full of beautiful handmade Chinese decor and furniture plus lots of spectacular ancient stone carvings which had been excavated from the nearby site. If they ever finished it, it would be as big as the Magic Kingdom, but instead of a bunch of steel-truss buildings with mere painted facades they were building an entire authentic city with stone and massive wooden beams. The portion that was complete was pretty stunning and (you guessed it) not a single person except for me was visiting it. There wasn't even a ticket taker or a construction site boss to kick me out, just a couple of businessmen parked at one of the buildings that was supposed to be a restaurant.

But China is a huge tourist market, right? It is, but the tourists were at none of the big, expensive new tourist "attractions". What they really love to visit are the local Buddhist temples and city parks, which are quite simple, but with fairly meticulous old-style architecture and attractive gardens, bridges and lotus ponds. There is nothing to "do" in any of these places, except fly kites, feed the goldfish, and light joss sticks at the temple altar. They love it, it's what they think a tourist attraction should be, and it doesn't cost $100 to visit. Just a taxi ride costing $5 and maybe $0.50 entrance fee. Every temple and city park that we visited in China was full of locals ... practically none of the "attractions" had even a single paid visitor except us.

So yeah ... it's possible that the whole Shanghai Disney thing won't work out ... at all.

P.S. I wonder if any of the top Disney execs visited P.R. China and had a look at the tourist attractions and rubbed elbows with the local people eating noodles in the city park's tea house before pulling the trigger? Ahhh, probably not.
Heck there was one
China is a graveyard of theme parks and tourist attractions. It's been almost 10 years since I was there, but I saw some pretty bizarre things.

One of the first news stories I saw on English-language China TV new channel was about water parks in Shanghai. At least 12 were built in a very short time, and only a year or so later every one of them except one was closed. The one that was still open was part of a condo development scheme which still needed some kind of magnet to attract buyers.

In one of the cities we visited there was a brand new museum of Chinese art. This was a huge museum with stunning architecture and very classy, expensive details such as marble flooring and a gigantic carved stone frieze that must have been 100 feet long and 20 feet high. And there was not one single person visiting it except us. Only one other person who wasn't a staff member was on the property ... a local who was walking his dog on the marble-paved garden paths. The ticket takers looked fairly surprised to see us ... a platoon of guards followed us through the exhibits. I estimate they had about a billion $ worth of building and art ... basically gathering dust.

In the same town we saw a museum of folk art advertised in the glossy information book placed in the hotel room. With color pictures and everything. The taxi driver just frowned and told us there was no such thing. We told him the street address so he shrugged and took us there. There was literally nothing. There was big, empty building at that address but you wouldn't have guessed it was a museum, and evidently it wasn't. Just a big locked door and when we peeked through the cracks it was just a big empty room with no furniture, just scaffolding and fresh plaster but no workers, no nothing.

In a nearby town there was an important archaeological site, an ancient city whose only remains were a large moat. Sort of an ancient Troy type of thing that I wanted to see because I like archaeology and ancient stuff. But the taxi took me to something bizarre that wasn't mentioned in any book or brochure. A kilometer or so from the actual ancient site they were building an entire, full-sized replica of the city ... with authentic materials and techniques. They had maybe 1/4 of it complete. There was part of a huge stone wall, a massive gate and maybe a dozen massive buildings inside which were chock full of beautiful handmade Chinese decor and furniture plus lots of spectacular ancient stone carvings which had been excavated from the nearby site. If they ever finished it, it would be as big as the Magic Kingdom, but instead of a bunch of steel-truss buildings with mere painted facades they were building an entire authentic city with stone and massive wooden beams. The portion that was complete was pretty stunning and (you guessed it) not a single person except for me was visiting it. There wasn't even a ticket taker or a construction site boss to kick me out, just a couple of businessmen parked at one of the buildings that was supposed to be a restaurant.

But China is a huge tourist market, right? It is, but the tourists were at none of the big, expensive new tourist "attractions". What they really love to visit are the local Buddhist temples and city parks, which are quite simple, but with fairly meticulous old-style architecture and attractive gardens, bridges and lotus ponds. There is nothing to "do" in any of these places, except fly kites, feed the goldfish, and light joss sticks at the temple altar. They love it, it's what they think a tourist attraction should be, and it doesn't cost $100 to visit. Just a taxi ride costing $5 and maybe $0.50 entrance fee. Every temple and city park that we visited in China was full of locals ... practically none of the "attractions" had even a single paid visitor except us.

So yeah ... it's possible that the whole Shanghai Disney thing won't work out ... at all.

P.S. I wonder if any of the top Disney execs visited P.R. China and had a look at the tourist attractions and rubbed elbows with the local people eating noodles in the city park's tea house before pulling the trigger? Ahhh, probably not.
There was a theme park in Beijing that plagiarized and even mocked the Disney company and its parks and its sign said "Disney is too far to go, please come to Shijingshan!"
 
I think disney should've put their brand in China before the theme park. Create a Chinese Disney channel, push the movies, introduce who Walt and other character are etc.
I'm surprised that hasn't been there yet. Since Nickelodeon has a channel which aired a Chinese dub of Spongebob Squarepants.
 
This park has almost nothing to do with "bringing magic to china"

It's about securing a longterm economic tie/favorable deals with the Chinese business and/or Politicla movers and shakers.

Jeez...things get way too complicated around here
 
It's about securing a longterm economic tie/favorable deals with the Chinese business and/or Politicla movers and shakers.

I was going to reply, "But what about the black eye they'll get all over the world from having a failed or even moderately unsuccessful flagship theme park in the good old PRC."

But Paris's near-failure and recurring problems barely touched on Disney's rep in the rest of the world. The problems have been attributed to the supposed cultural differences of European tourists and to European workers' attitudes, but AFAIK none of it has affected what the average American (North and South) or Brit thinks about Disney characters or theme parks.

So ... we can probably sit back and eat popcorn and not worry too much about Disney getting a black eye in China. It won't sting much and it won't leave a mark.
 
Wait a second... Did I just read somebody suggest the Chinese government is scared of the US? Or they wouldn't dare cross the mighty lawyers of Mickey Mouse?

Sometimes The Lord of the rings is more plausible around here.
Here's my thought. China is trying to become a legitimate world super power. Gaining the respect of global business community is priority number one. If Walt Disney Company one of the faces of Amaricanism is blatantly ripped off it would send the wrong message. Acting like a third world country or Putin gains you the respect of a third world country. Basic property rights are essential, and if that was called into question serious concerns would be raised. Also Chinese companies are trying to make strategic foriegn investments currently, and if Disney got its MK taken away you could bet that the U.S., EU, Canada, and Australia would cool to the idea of further takeovers by Chinese companies. Disney is too big.
 
The chief issue is we seem to think that Western culture can be exported just about anywhere, and for the most part it can - except China. I recall reading somewhere that the most successful US companies in China all sell essentials or staples. Proctor & Gamble is doing well (at least it was when I read the article) simply because most people wash their hair regardless of where they come from. Disney is selling entertainment, which as others have said is defined very differently over there versus over here.

I had anticipated that Disney would be successful in the People's Republic, but it looks like it remains to be seen. If it fails I wonder how long it will take for them to pack their bags and head over to Seoul or Busan…
I think Disney, given enough time, can adapt and grow in nearly any market globally. It's proven this time and time again. However, only if the government is operating in a fair open way. Other businesses like Yum, McDonalds, and Apple as well as luxary brands from the west have found a home in China (though many of the brands have been targeted by state run entities). Viacom also has made headway. America is marketable to China, if given enough time.
 
China is trying to become a legitimate world super power. Gaining the respect of global business community is priority number one.

I would add a little bit of nuance to that. At certain times the ruling clique perceive that it will help them maintain and extend their power by convincing their subjects that they can improve their lives by acting like a respected and peaceful member of the international community. That's when major business agreements are signed, Olympic games are hosted, and so on.

At other times - and often even at the same time - the clique feels that their wealth and power can only be preserved and enhanced by acting like a mean S.O.B. who's willing to step up and defend the ordinary people from foreign bullies. So called. That's when you see foreign companies treated disrespectfully, expropriated, or their contracts, patents, copyrights and trademarks are ignored ... and you see a lot of military threats and "incidents".

The same schizoid policies are followed by every other ruling clique in the world, in every single country. But the unique position of China (due to political and cultural differences ... and also Russia) is that their ruling clique needs to tramp both of these "go" and "stop" pedals a lot harder than most countries. It's because of a culture of paranoia and feelings of inferiority brought on by centuries of isolation and decades if not centuries of backwards and incompetent economic management. You're great and secure in the world therefore we welcome these Mickey Mice to our doors - AND (OR) - those foreigners hate you so to h_LL with all of them and their cartoon rodents.

That's why you see companies like McDonalds and Disney taking slaps and coming back with a hearty, "Thank you, Sir, may I have another?" It's rough but it's nothing personal.

/pedantic
 
Sorry DDland, totally disagree.


The Chinese government for ears now has had a active campaign to steal all the technology and properties from outside companies they can. I heard if from firm after firm that is suckered into moving plants and jobs to china for cheap labor and then discover after stealing the machinery plans and operating designs, they open their own plant in another city. Their is nothing they can do to stop in as the courts are controlled by the government. The contracts mean nothing.

The biggest was a billion dollar deal with the French high speed train......after 3 years the Chinese are now marketing a rip off of the French train to the world market.

They will do what ever they want and there will be nothing Disney will be able to do to stop them. Greedy CEO's like Iger is their best suckers!

AKK
 
Here's my thought. China is trying to become a legitimate world super power. Gaining the respect of global business community is priority number one. If Walt Disney Company one of the faces of Amaricanism is blatantly ripped off it would send the wrong message. Acting like a third world country or Putin gains you the respect of a third world country. Basic property rights are essential, and if that was called into question serious concerns would be raised. Also Chinese companies are trying to make strategic foriegn investments currently, and if Disney got its MK taken away you could bet that the U.S., EU, Canada, and Australia would cool to the idea of further takeovers by Chinese companies. Disney is too big.

You Maybe right regarding geopolitics and business...

I just don't think this is in bob Iger's realm.

Just a cheap suit who managed to exceed his own wildest expectations...
He's not a CIA agent
 
I think Disney, given enough time, can adapt and grow in nearly any market globally. It's proven this time and time again. However, only if the government is operating in a fair open way. Other businesses like Yum, McDonalds, and Apple as well as luxary brands from the west have found a home in China (though many of the brands have been targeted by state run entities). Viacom also has made headway. America is marketable to China, if given enough time.

I think you're making an incorrect assumption that everybody - in this case the Chinese - either is open to Americanism, wants to be Anerica, or wants to be a yielding friend of America.

China simply wants economic might in relation to America so they can dictate terms longterm. The Chinese hold more US debt obligations than Americans do. They don't want an "opening up" of their society to American values. They have 2 billion people - it can't work that way.

In other areas of the world...they just want us the hell off their land and out of their temples. But we can't stop being nosey there as well.

This is Gipper era naïveté...they just what some our economic power - they don't want us.

I think this shanghai park is a perfect manifestation of that. It's a trophy/showpiece for the Chinese for clout. They have no desire to "open up" to American ideals.

Iger has shown some remarkable savvy... More than I have ever thought he could muster...

But not here. If the government is starting already with the "thank you, now kindly stay out of our affairs" in regards to SDL...before it even opens...then that's on CMB for thinking he's untouchable and his rather meager personal wealth on the global scale ensures him somekind of permanent status with a authoritarian regime that controls the mass of world industrialized labor and has a very nasty chip on its shoulder from the 20 century.

Or they were spoofed by Hong Kong...which is not in the heart of the Chinese bread basket.

That's like saying "well, people like disneyland...so a park in Detroit will work...I mean - it's all the same people"
 
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