Shanghai Trouble?

China is a graveyard of theme parks and tourist attractions. It's been almost 10 years since I was there, but I saw some pretty bizarre things.

One of the first news stories I saw on English-language China TV new channel was about water parks in Shanghai. At least 12 were built in a very short time, and only a year or so later every one of them except one was closed. The one that was still open was part of a condo development scheme which still needed some kind of magnet to attract buyers.

In one of the cities we visited there was a brand new museum of Chinese art. This was a huge museum with stunning architecture and very classy, expensive details such as marble flooring and a gigantic carved stone frieze that must have been 100 feet long and 20 feet high. And there was not one single person visiting it except us. Only one other person who wasn't a staff member was on the property ... a local who was walking his dog on the marble-paved garden paths. The ticket takers looked fairly surprised to see us ... a platoon of guards followed us through the exhibits. I estimate they had about a billion $ worth of building and art ... basically gathering dust.

In the same town we saw a museum of folk art advertised in the glossy information book placed in the hotel room. With color pictures and everything. The taxi driver just frowned and told us there was no such thing. We told him the street address so he shrugged and took us there. There was literally nothing. There was big, empty building at that address but you wouldn't have guessed it was a museum, and evidently it wasn't. Just a big locked door and when we peeked through the cracks it was just a big empty room with no furniture, just scaffolding and fresh plaster but no workers, no nothing.

In a nearby town there was an important archaeological site, an ancient city whose only remains were a large moat. Sort of an ancient Troy type of thing that I wanted to see because I like archaeology and ancient stuff. But the taxi took me to something bizarre that wasn't mentioned in any book or brochure. A kilometer or so from the actual ancient site they were building an entire, full-sized replica of the city ... with authentic materials and techniques. They had maybe 1/4 of it complete. There was part of a huge stone wall, a massive gate and maybe a dozen massive buildings inside which were chock full of beautiful handmade Chinese decor and furniture plus lots of spectacular ancient stone carvings which had been excavated from the nearby site. If they ever finished it, it would be as big as the Magic Kingdom, but instead of a bunch of steel-truss buildings with mere painted facades they were building an entire authentic city with stone and massive wooden beams. The portion that was complete was pretty stunning and (you guessed it) not a single person except for me was visiting it. There wasn't even a ticket taker or a construction site boss to kick me out, just a couple of businessmen parked at one of the buildings that was supposed to be a restaurant.

But China is a huge tourist market, right? It is, but the tourists were at none of the big, expensive new tourist "attractions". What they really love to visit are the local Buddhist temples and city parks, which are quite simple, but with fairly meticulous old-style architecture and attractive gardens, bridges and lotus ponds. There is nothing to "do" in any of these places, except fly kites, feed the goldfish, and light joss sticks at the temple altar. They love it, it's what they think a tourist attraction should be, and it doesn't cost $100 to visit. Just a taxi ride costing $5 and maybe $0.50 entrance fee. Every temple and city park that we visited in China was full of locals ... practically none of the "attractions" had even a single paid visitor except us.

So yeah ... it's possible that the whole Shanghai Disney thing won't work out ... at all.

P.S. I wonder if any of the top Disney execs visited P.R. China and had a look at the tourist attractions and rubbed elbows with the local people eating noodles in the city park's tea house before pulling the trigger? Ahhh, probably not.
 
China is a graveyard of theme parks and tourist attractions. It's been almost 10 years since I was there, but I saw some pretty bizarre things.

One of the first news stories I saw on English-language China TV new channel was about water parks in Shanghai. At least 12 were built in a very short time, and only a year or so later every one of them except one was closed. The one that was still open was part of a condo development scheme which still needed some kind of magnet to attract buyers.

In one of the cities we visited there was a brand new museum of Chinese art. This was a huge museum with stunning architecture and very classy, expensive details such as marble flooring and a gigantic carved stone frieze that must have been 100 feet long and 20 feet high. And there was not one single person visiting it except us. Only one other person who wasn't a staff member was on the property ... a local who was walking his dog on the marble-paved garden paths. The ticket takers looked fairly surprised to see us ... a platoon of guards followed us through the exhibits. I estimate they had about a billion $ worth of building and art ... basically gathering dust.

In the same town we saw a museum of folk art advertised in the glossy information book placed in the hotel room. With color pictures and everything. The taxi driver just frowned and told us there was no such thing. We told him the street address so he shrugged and took us there. There was literally nothing. There was big, empty building at that address but you wouldn't have guessed it was a museum, and evidently it wasn't. Just a big locked door and when we peeked through the cracks it was just a big empty room with no furniture, just scaffolding and fresh plaster but no workers, no nothing.

In a nearby town there was an important archaeological site, an ancient city whose only remains were a large moat. Sort of an ancient Troy type of thing that I wanted to see because I like archaeology and ancient stuff. But the taxi took me to something bizarre that wasn't mentioned in any book or brochure. A kilometer or so from the actual ancient site they were building an entire, full-sized replica of the city ... with authentic materials and techniques. They had maybe 1/4 of it complete. There was part of a huge stone wall, a massive gate and maybe a dozen massive buildings inside which were chock full of beautiful handmade Chinese decor and furniture plus lots of spectacular ancient stone carvings which had been excavated from the nearby site. If they ever finished it, it would be as big as the Magic Kingdom, but instead of a bunch of steel-truss buildings with mere painted facades they were building an entire authentic city with stone and massive wooden beams. The portion that was complete was pretty stunning and (you guessed it) not a single person except for me was visiting it. There wasn't even a ticket taker or a construction site boss to kick me out, just a couple of businessmen parked at one of the buildings that was supposed to be a restaurant.

But China is a huge tourist market, right? It is, but the tourists were at none of the big, expensive new tourist "attractions". What they really love to visit are the local Buddhist temples and city parks, which are quite simple, but with fairly meticulous old-style architecture and attractive gardens, bridges and lotus ponds. There is nothing to "do" in any of these places, except fly kites, feed the goldfish, and light joss sticks at the temple altar. They love it, it's what they think a tourist attraction should be, and it doesn't cost $100 to visit. Just a taxi ride costing $5 and maybe $0.50 entrance fee. Every temple and city park that we visited in China was full of locals ... practically none of the "attractions" had even a single paid visitor except us.

So yeah ... it's possible that the whole Shanghai Disney thing won't work out ... at all.

P.S. I wonder if any of the top Disney execs visited P.R. China and had a look at the tourist attractions and rubbed elbows with the local people eating noodles in the city park's tea house before pulling the trigger? Ahhh, probably not.
While I don't profess to be an expert on China (I've never been) I would say that while it may be true that city parks are important centers of social and community relationships that doesn't exclude other entertainment venues. I'd also take notice of: http://www.investmentu.com/article/detail/40926/china-theme-park-market#.VW6F1c4-bS8 There is a market there. It just depends on how well Disney is positioned to capture it.
 
Frozen made over 48 million at the Chinese box office. Just one year later, Big Hero 6 made over 83 million, both setting highest opening records. Toy Story 3 achieved the same before those. The live-action Cinderella made over 71 million, while the first Avengers made over 86 million. Dreamworks recently announced a Dreamworks channel specifically created for the Chinese audiences given the fact that China is one of their biggest sources of income. Apparently China isn't as closed-minded to American culture as it may seem, but I do wonder if that would translate into a Disney theme park. I don't think this is as critical as it sounds, but it certainly is worrying.

I don't know. I may be speaking out of ignorance.
 
Frozen made over 48 million at the Chinese box office. Just one year later, Big Hero 6 made over 83 million, both setting highest opening records. Toy Story 3 achieved the same before those. The live-action Cinderella made over 71 million, while the first Avengers made over 86 million. Dreamworks recently announced a Dreamworks channel specifically created for the Chinese audiences given the fact that China is one of their biggest sources of income. Apparently China isn't as closed-minded to American culture as it may seem, but I do wonder if that would translate into a Disney theme park. I don't think this is as critical as it sounds, but it certainly is worrying.

I don't know. I may be speaking out of ignorance.
I think disney should've put their brand in China before the theme park. Create a Chinese Disney channel, push the movies, introduce who Walt and other character are etc.
 

It would not be at all surprising if China takes total control of the Shanghai park and tells Disney to keep out. Its what they do with all the businesses operating there.

Iger has played into their hands thinking only that it would be highly successful. What he didn't take into account, is that China does what they want and has no interest in Igor's Disney Company bottom line.



AKK
 
It would not be at all surprising if China takes total control of the Shanghai park and tells Disney to keep out. Its what they do with all the businesses operating there.

Could Disney "pull" the Mickey Mouse and other IP from the park if they were expropriated?

Though it might not have much (or any) effect ... China is full of theme parks which copy the characters, look and feel of Disney and Universal parks. One of them even has a "Disney Store" supposedly complete right down to having fake hologram "genuine Disney" tags on the merchandise.
 
It doesn't surprise me that China is being like this. However it still doesn't stop me from being excited about it opening :)
 
It would not be at all surprising if China takes total control of the Shanghai park and tells Disney to keep out. Its what they do with all the businesses operating there.

Iger has played into their hands thinking only that it would be highly successful. What he didn't take into account, is that China does what they want and has no interest in Igor's Disney Company bottom line.



AKK
I don't see them taking total control. I just see them giving Disney as little control as possible but keeping them in, in case needed for the future.
 
Could Disney "pull" the Mickey Mouse and other IP from the park if they were expropriated?

Though it might not have much (or any) effect ... China is full of theme parks which copy the characters, look and feel of Disney and Universal parks. One of them even has a "Disney Store" supposedly complete right down to having fake hologram "genuine Disney" tags on the merchandise.
I find that doubtful.
 
Could Disney "pull" the Mickey Mouse and other IP from the park if they were expropriated?

Though it might not have much (or any) effect ... China is full of theme parks which copy the characters, look and feel of Disney and Universal parks. One of them even has a "Disney Store" supposedly complete right down to having fake hologram "genuine Disney" tags on the merchandise.



No way!!! Counterfeit products.....in China? Who woulda thunk it?
 
I find that doubtful.
Not sure about the facts on this statement, but I know when I was in the Navy and in the middle east and Singapore, I could buy all types of 'name' brand products for a fraction of the cost. Of course, they were not really name brand products, but they were labeled that way.

Also, I used to drink at a bar in UAE(in the middle east) that was called TGIF. I can assure you that was not a valid franchise for that store.

So anyway, counterfeits do exist in these other countries and they don't care about the IP at all.
 
I don't see them taking total control. I just see them giving Disney as little control as possible but keeping them in, in case needed for the future.


It could go either way, but in the end The Chinese would just do whatever they what, use any trade mark, name brands or characters, etc, and Disney has no way to stop them!

AKK
 
Not sure about the facts on this statement, but I know when I was in the Navy and in the middle east and Singapore, I could buy all types of 'name' brand products for a fraction of the cost. Of course, they were not really name brand products, but they were labeled that way.

Also, I used to drink at a bar in UAE(in the middle east) that was called TGIF. I can assure you that was not a valid franchise for that store.

So anyway, counterfeits do exist in these other countries and they don't care about the IP at all.
I was saying that the park pulling Mickey Mouse is doubtful I know there are plent of counterfeits
 
It will be hard for me to be wad when TWDC loses their backsides because of dealing with the government of China. When you make a deal with people who are know to be inveterate liars the only certainty is that they are going to lie.
 
Could Disney "pull" the Mickey Mouse and other IP from the park if they were expropriated?

Though it might not have much (or any) effect ... China is full of theme parks which copy the characters, look and feel of Disney and Universal parks. One of them even has a "Disney Store" supposedly complete right down to having fake hologram "genuine Disney" tags on the merchandise.

Probably World Joyland see http://www.thethemeparkguy.com/park/world-joyland/

Basically a mish mash of Orlando Attraction Rip Offs (And World of Warcraft) including the blatant "Disney" store ripoff. As well as entire lands and attractions copied from Orlando.
 
Remember as much as Disney and China may be having issues, under no circumstances will China take total control of Shanghai Disney. We're talking about the government of China, the same government craving the respect of a superpower. Publicly ripping Disney off billions of dollars is not how a country goes about showing off maturity. Will they micromanage the entire operation? I'm afraid so. Will Disney still have some semblance of control. Yes, because if they didn't they'll be major legal implications.

This relationship is going to be a pain in the butt for the next decade or more as China transitions to more openness. Until then, Burbank better buckle their seat belts because Shendi has a list of demands that are going to be met.
 
Wondering why the issue is so pronounced in Shanghai, but not in Hong Kong.
 
Wondering why the issue is so pronounced in Shanghai, but not in Hong Kong.
Hong Kong is a different ball game. That area was a British colony of course and is more Americanized per say than Shanghai. Shanghai is mainland China with a ton of people that are very unfamiliar with much of America.
 















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