RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[griffithok]

Near the end of the notification it states:

So it sounds like the new Member Lounge at Epcot is considered a "Membership Extra". Are they really going to verify how and when a family purchased DVC before admitting them into the new lounge and turn people away if they own only resale contracts purchased after April 4, 2016?

Lisa,
My understanding is that the new DVC members won't get cards. As of April 4th, they won't get those new members DVC cards, they have access only to book online, no perks.
Cathy

 

[DebbieB]

I also am extremely curious about how exactly the perks are being paid for. (Not the discounts, I assume those are just negotiated with Parks.) For example, I assume that the 25th anniversary parties and Merry Member Mixers are not open to new resale buyers. But I had assumed that our dues were being used to pay for these. (Others on this board assumed the same, and said that's why there was no sales talk at these, because then DVD should have to pay for them. In fact, a lot of people complained that our dues were paying for the 25th parties that gave short notice, so few members could benefit from them.) But if they're being paid for out of dues, all members paying dues should get them. (Just as, for example, members should not be charged for resort parking since our dues pay for parking lot upkeep.) So now people are saying that they must be paid for by DVD if they can remove them from some members. Does anyone know for sure?

That's a big question. If dues is paying for them, I don't see how they could legally deny any member, unless they charge them lower dues. Another unanswered question is what is still available, if anything. There were reports on Monday that TOWL, pool hopping and DVD rentals were still included for everyone, but then others are saying no. DVC really needs to come out with an official statement clarifying everything. Horrible communication on this.

 

[Sammie]

I also am extremely curious about how exactly the perks are being paid for. (Not the discounts, I assume those are just negotiated with Parks.) For example, I assume that the 25th anniversary parties and Merry Member Mixers are not open to new resale buyers. But I had assumed that our dues were being used to pay for these. (Others on this board assumed the same, and said that's why there was no sales talk at these, because then DVD should have to pay for them. In fact, a lot of people complained that our dues were paying for the 25th parties that gave short notice, so few members could benefit from them.) But if they're being paid for out of dues, all members paying dues should get them. (Just as, for example, members should not be charged for resort parking since our dues pay for parking lot upkeep.) So now people are saying that they must be paid for by DVD if they can remove them from some members. Does anyone know for sure?

The 25th Annv. party was not paid for with dues. DVD paid for them.

 

[drusba]

I also am extremely curious about how exactly the perks are being paid for. (Not the discounts, I assume those are just negotiated with Parks.) For example, I assume that the 25th anniversary parties and Merry Member Mixers are not open to new resale buyers. But I had assumed that our dues were being used to pay for these. (Others on this board assumed the same, and said that's why there was no sales talk at these, because then DVD should have to pay for them. In fact, a lot of people complained that our dues were paying for the 25th parties that gave short notice, so few members could benefit from them.) But if they're being paid for out of dues, all members paying dues should get them. (Just as, for example, members should not be charged for resort parking since our dues pay for parking lot upkeep.) So now people are saying that they must be paid for by DVD if they can remove them from some members. Does anyone know for sure?

As I mentioned earlier, I cannot say whether DVD in fact obeys the law, but the applicable Florida statute, sec. 721.075, states that the developer is prohibited from using dues to pay for any incidental benefits that it offers. In the new Membership Extras statement that appears online which sets out that members other than new resale purchasers will have access to incidental benefits including the discounts and special events, DVD expressly states it is acting in compliance with that particular statute. If it is lying, it will have far more serious problems than members being angry with it.

 

[Sammie]

As I mentioned earlier, I cannot say whether DVD in fact obeys the law, but the applicable Florida statute, sec. 721.075, states that the developer is prohibited from using dues to pay for any incidental benefits that it offers. In the new Membership Extras statement that appears online which sets out that members other than new resale purchasers will have access to incidental benefits including the discounts and special events, DVD expressly states it is acting in compliance with that particular statute. If it is lying, it will have far more serious problems than members being angry with it.

I don't think of any of us think DVD is stupid and considering all of this is audited, I would say they are obeying the laws.

 

[maburke]

The 25th Annv. party was not paid for with dues. DVD paid for them.

Wow, that's incredible that they throw us those huge, presumably extremely expensive after-hours parties at the parks with no benefit to sales other than good will, and then they go and do this.
Especially because we existing members who might love these parties and plan trips around them lose nothing by doing future add-ons by resale, since we're already full members.

 

[Sammie]

Wow, that's incredible that they throw us those huge, presumably extremely expensive after-hours parties at the parks with no benefit to sales other than good will, and then they go and do this.

Yes one does have to wonder what fueled this. I read the DVC Facebook forums and lots of angry members lately. They don't think DVC does nearly enough for them, including these parties. They were upset more was not offered, they are upset that they did not have enough advance notice and based on some comments, that I have seen in the last few days there is an element of new direct buyers not happy with the cost of their purchase and yet someone that bought resale went to the party.

As someone else said, social media can be vicious. These are a few of the "milder" ones I have seen since this happened.
You're a second class citizen as you said because of your bad decisions to buy resale and not directly. You got what you deserved . Resale should never have had any benefits.

I am so glad for this. ‪#‎DVCMember‬ benefits should only be to for those that buy directly from Disney Vacation Club.

Many were deleted.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

You are all set and are grand fathered ...your contract was submitted before yesterday to Disney.

Actually there is some new info that if your resales contract was NOT RECORDED before 4/4/16, you will not have the incidental benefits. Simply entering into ROFR does not grandfather you in. This was disclosed to all the brokers a day after the initial statement from DVC.

 

[CMNJ]

Yes one does have to wonder what fueled this. I read the DVC Facebook forums and lots of angry members lately. They don't think DVC does nearly enough for them, including these parties. They were upset more was not offered, they are upset that they did not have enough advance notice and based on some comments, that I have seen in the last few days there is an element of new direct buyers not happy with the cost of their purchase and yet someone that bought resale went to the party.

As someone else said, social media can be vicious. These are a few of the "milder" ones I have seen since this happened.
You're a second class citizen as you said because of your bad decisions to buy resale and not directly. You got what you deserved . Resale should never have had any benefits.

Wow that is viscous!!!!

 

[DisDadDVC]

As someone else said, social media can be vicious. These are a few of the "milder" ones I have seen since this happened.
You're a second class citizen as you said because of your bad decisions to buy resale and not directly. You got what you deserved . Resale should never have had any benefits.

Well, if they look at it that way, technically they are third class citizens now...The post 2011 resale buyers are 2nd class. Does that make retail buyers the 1%'ers? Where's my pitchfork?

 

[Heather Heflin]

Actually there is some new info that if your resales contract was NOT RECORDED before 4/4/16, you will not have the incidental benefits. Simply entering into ROFR does not grandfather you in. This was disclosed to all the brokers a day after the initial statement from DVC.

By recorded does that mean the deed recorded with the county OR member number recorded?

 

[rangermom]

DH and I have been pondering over this change for the past few days. We bought direct for both our contracts and have been members for 9 years. We have decided we are fine with this change. Of course being direct buyers this change does not affect how we can use our points, so our opinion is more skewed in that direction. We don't plan on ever selling our contracts, as we have used all of our points ever year. We have only used our points on DVC resorts or the Disney Collection at DL.

We have looked at other timeshares in the past and it is not uncommon for contracts bought on resale to have reduced benefits or limited trading abilities. Like many others have said Disney is a business. Over the past 25 years there have been changes in benefits and perks. I would have loved to have gotten free annual passes when we bought ours, but it wasn't offered anymore. That's the way it is with many things in life. I like the used car analogy someone mentioned, but we also only purchase certified pre-owned used cars, so a biased opinion again

This change could potentially hurt our resale value IF we chose to sale, but we don't plan to. We love going with our kids, but even as our kids are getting older we enjoy going by ourselves. We have done DL, WDW and DCL without the kids, so Disney will be part of our lives even after the kiddos move out. If we ever get to a situation that we can't make the annual dues payment, then will rent out the points on an as needed basis. We rarely have "extra" points each year but when we do we bank them or gift nights to our friends. We also did not purchase DVC to later resale it and never once did our guide tell us that our contracts would retain resale values or that we would make a profit. It was a very low pressure sale and they did not even want us to sign on the spot. They recommended us to go home and think about it before committing.

DVC has been one of the best choices we have made as a family. I have calculated what our stays would have cost for cash and we have already benefited more than what we have paid. What we did when we bought our contracts was pre-purchased the lodging for our future vacations. Truthfully I did not even really look at the "perks" that came with it. As a budget person I calculated how much the cash rate at the level of rooms we would use with our membership and how long it would take us to re-coup the initial cost. We already knew we would continue to go to Disney, and for us DVC was the best choice to help maximize our dollars. We have gotten to attend some of some of the DVC events at WDW, DL and DCL and have really enjoyed them. I would like to see more of these types of events especially on the west coast. If had to do it all over again, we would purchase DVC directly from Disney again. We just would ahve done it 2000 when we first heard about it like I recommended to DH. He will never live that one down

 

[maburke]

I think what bothers me is that this was handled in such a non-magical, punitive way. (Before anyone tells me that it's not magic, it's a timeshare, please, I already know that, but they market themselves as different, so if they're not acting different, they've failed.) In addition to the bad communication, for which there is no excuse, I think they could have handled it with a better, more positive spin, and accomplished the same thing. Imagine how different it would be if, instead of saying that new resale members would not get a membership card, they said, "Starting April 4, existing members and new direct members will get a fancy new discount and member benefits card, in addition to their membership card. This is the card that will be needed to access all of the member benefits. New resales will not be eligible for the card." Then grandfather in everybody who already has a signed contract.

At least I'd feel a lot better about the whole thing. Focussing on the member as second class just feels ugly. (Glad I don't read the FB stuff.) I'd rather look at it as you get a discount card, or you don't.

 

[robinb]

I read that if you gift your contract to someone or if your heirs inherit your contract they also lose the perks and benefits. Is that true? Any time a contract changes hands the new owner becomes a 3rd class owner?

 

[DisDadDVC]

I read that if you gift your contract to someone or if your heirs inherit your contract they also lose the perks and benefits. Is that true? Any time a contract changes hands the new owner becomes a 3rd class owner?

I read the exact opposite. I know for the 2011 deval, the benefits were passed down to heirs.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Reliable source about 2 pages ago says benefits remain in contracts that have them in the case of inheritance.

 

[ColonialMouse]

As a 2012 purchaser it doesn't impact me, and I see everyone who bought direct feeling confident.

I don't see a reason to feel confident.

What DVC is saying here is that the member extras are not courtesies being extended to people who have committed to visiting Disney regularly. They are saying that anything other than the raw timeshare room benefits is being paid for by active sales.

When they eventually stop building new DVC resorts (which given the Poly problems may be last year) the extras are gone for everyone in 3 years. Maybe they'll find some land in California they can build new resorts on or something, but I think everyone needs to expect it's just a matter of time until everyone loses the extras. Disney doesn't view the additional revenue they receive from giving owners benefits (and encouraging more visits, good will, and future commitment) as significant enough to make up for the cost. That doesn't make much sense to me, but they're the ones with the spreadsheet. I think in their current financial situation, though, they're not looking beyond the next FY.

Now maybe they plan on transitioning to exercising a lot of ROFR and continuing to resell the existing resorts. Maybe they're going to announce that the current contracts have an end date but the resorts will continue and they'll just roll through selling contracts with a new end date. Who knows.

But regardless, the "your extras are not guaranteed" clearly applies to everyone, not just resale buyers.

Now once they find a new COO the picture could entirely change. Extras could be returned just as easily. Better benefits could even be delivered. But I won't hold my breath, and they've made it perfectly clear they can go away for everyone.

Bruce

 

[DisDadDVC]

As a 2012 purchaser it doesn't impact me, and I see everyone who bought direct feeling confident.

I don't see a reason to feel confident.

What DVC is saying here is that the member extras are not courtesies being extended to people who have committed to visiting Disney regularly. They are saying that anything other than the raw timeshare room benefits is being paid for by active sales.

When they eventually stop building new DVC resorts (which given the Poly problems may be last year) the extras are gone for everyone in 3 years. Maybe they'll find some land in California they can build new resorts on or something, but I think everyone needs to expect it's just a matter of time until everyone loses the extras. Disney doesn't view the additional revenue they receive from giving owners benefits (and encouraging more visits, good will, and future commitment) as significant enough to make up for the cost. That doesn't make much sense to me, but they're the ones with the spreadsheet. I think in their current financial situation, though, they're not looking beyond the next FY.

Now maybe they plan on transitioning to exercising a lot of ROFR and continuing to resell the existing resorts. Maybe they're going to announce that the current contracts have an end date but the resorts will continue and they'll just roll through selling contracts with a new end date. Who knows.

But regardless, the "your extras are not guaranteed" clearly applies to everyone, not just resale buyers.

Now once they find a new COO the picture could entirely change. Extras could be returned just as easily. Better benefits could even be delivered. But I won't hold my breath, and they've made it perfectly clear they can go away for everyone.

Bruce

1) I don't think many people feel confident at all right about now.
2) DVC won't stop building. PVB certainly won't be their last. It might not be selling the way they wanted, but they will still make a killing on it in the end.
3) The only chance I see of any better extra benefits or anything will be for new buyers only to try to sell out resorts. But most likely they will just do that will promos like extra points or $5 off sales.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

They don't think DVC does nearly enough for them, including these parties.

"y we no get FREE DINING?????"

I think a lot of people buy into the hype of "membership," and overlook that what they have bought is a real estate interest in which everything BUT that interest is subject to change, and unlike most condo boards they have no hope of staging a leadership coup.

 

[tjkraz]

(Before anyone tells me that it's not magic, it's a timeshare, please, I already know that, but they market themselves as different, so if they're not acting different, they've failed.)

Can you think of any company which DOESN'T market its products as being "different"?