Commerical Use Policy Update - New Thread!

[Girlstar30]

To further elaborate: if I am not mistaken, RIV POS say that using a broker or other Internet site to rent point is forbidden. Could they ban it for older resorts saying it falls into commercial activity? I'd say it restricts rights to rent a bit too much to be considered just a change of the definition of commercial renting.

I have purchased a Riviera rental from dvc rental store and vdh is this not allowed?? Something i would really like to know!

 

[Sandisw]

To further elaborate: if I am not mistaken, RIV POS say that using a broker or other Internet site to rent point is forbidden. Could they ban it for older resorts saying it falls into commercial activity? I'd say it restricts rights to rent a bit too much to be considered just a change of the definition of commercial renting.

It doesn’t save it’s forbidden. It’s says regular use of a broker can be seen as a pattern of rental activity, amongst other things.

The use of the word “regular” adds context which seem important given the contract states a “pattern of rental….”

I think it’s why the updated T and C were worded the way they were…

Based what I have learned, the current policy does give insight into the levels of renting DVC themselves see as the tipping point.

The only restriction we have is that we don’t rent to the degree DVC can reasonably conclude is a commercial enterprise, etc.

So, any changes to the limit renting beyond what can rise to the level of commercial enterprise, etc, would be something owners would need to vote

For example. If they said that owners can’t rent reservations during December, IMO, would be a stretch and would require a vote.

In terms of using the specifics from RIv and beyond in an offical policy?

I’m not sure but most of them appear they’d fit into a reasonable definition of what makes one rise to a commercial level.

And, to a certain extent, having those there for those owners, might be enough to use outside of the 2011 policy for those owners whose contract has that language.

But for those owners whose contract doesn’t? As I have mentioned, my information is that DVC should have that somewhere in writing for your preRIV owners if they will be using those outside of the official policy

But, the contract still requires DVC to show that the actions of an owner show they are in it for a purpose other than for personal use, which includes some level of renting.

Now, DVC can do something that doesn’t seem legal and force owners to fight them in court, but I think from past experience, if they know their moves are questionable, the reverse course.

And, as I have said, they have chosen not to update the 2011 policy, chose to only add the phrase “personal use is not regularly or frequently” renting with no mention on who you can rent to or where you can rent out your points.

I believe that if the DVC lawyers thought they can do any of those things without running into legal hurdles, including the 2021 law, they would have changed the documents to reflect it by now vs just giving MS scripts to focus on family and friends when discussing renting and letting owners draw conclusions.

Again, who knows if they plan more changes in practice or in updated language.

It will be interesting to see what I get in my response but based on the questions I asked, I am not anticipating any answers quickly because I am pretty sure they will be involving legal again before answering.

ETA: What they are not allowed to do is violate what is written in offical documents which is why the pre RIv resorts are different than the RIV and beyond one’s, especially CFW which isn’t a leasehold condo.

 

[VGCgroupie]

It doesn’t save it’s forbidden. It’s says regular use of a broker can be seen as a pattern of rental activity, amongst other things.

While just my opinion I think times have changed and use of a broker heavily leans non commercial activity. Now commercial renters have their own platforms for renting, their own contracts etc because social media and even website building is way more easy and powerful than it once was. Its easy to find your own renters and keep the extra $6-$8 per point you would pay a broker for yourself.

I will play devils advocate here and say that they could be using the broker terminology because if you are using a broker that proves that it is not a friend or family member.

Disclaimer: I am speaking of when a member is using a broker as a facilitator for renting not when a broker is the member renting their own points. That is a different thing entirely.

 

[Sandisw]

While just my opinion I think times have changed and use of a broker heavily leans non commercial activity. Now commercial renters have their own platforms for renting, their own contracts etc because social media and even website building is way more easy and powerful than it once was. Its easy to find your own renters and keep the extra $6-$8 per point you would pay a broker for yourself.

I will play devils advocate here and say that they could be using the broker terminology because if you are using a broker that proves that it is not a friend or family member.

Disclaimer: I am speaking of when a member is using a broker as a facilitator for renting not when a broker is the member renting their own points. That is a different thing entirely.

Speculation here.

I definitely am of the opinion that those specific examples of what can be used were added to RIV and beyond because DVD wanted and needed to make those offical actions they could use to support taking action against an owner, given their offical written policy.

But what is very interesting is that they added them to some of the MS scripts but not to the updated T and C.

Some believe it’s because they didn’t need to but it’s just as plausible that legally they could not. Only DVC knows for sure.

I definitely think that forbidding owners from ever renting to a stranger or even using a broker, if it isn’t done to a level that appear to be a membership for commercial purposes would be one that could very well run afoul with all the FL laws regulating renting for condos and timeshare, especially FL 718.111

Not saying that the 20 reservations threshold you have to cross to be considered using your membership for commercial purposes under the offical policy can’t be changed. It certainly could.

Maybe it will happen, but as I have mentioned, to date. DVC has chosen not to change the offical policy or T and C to include any of those things.

Until they do, owners have to rely on the offical policy, the T and C, and other things they see in the POS as guidance to make decisions when booking for others.

Even the RIV and beyond owners have to interpret what it means to “regularly use a broker” because DVC has not defined anywhere, in writing or in their enforcement what that word “regular” means.

 

[BayTower2010]

The whole thing is just crazy. I have owned DVC since 2010 and never rented a single point. I would be willing to bet over 95% of owners are the same. So why is Disney fretting about the 5% or so that do rent points? I would think Disney has bigger fish to fry than worrying about a few owners who try to make a business out of renting points--like finding a new CEO and say making good movies, just my opinion.

 

[chazas]

For now I think this is all a tempest in a teapot for individual owners who rent from time to time. I have changed the lead guest on a few reservations recently both by phone and chat and I was just asked the equivalent of the "check the box" on personal use. I said "yes" and based on the policies Disney has out there to date, I feel perfectly comfortable with that. The CM did not probe any further - I can't imagine they would unless you say something other than "yes, this is for my personal use." The key is "personal use" is not colloquial, they have attached a legal meaning to it, and even if the line is fuzzy they have acknowledged some level of rental activity is fine. As a practical matter I find it exceedingly unlikely that they'd take some sort of action against occasional renters without announcing a new standard first, and that would be tough for them to do.

This whole thing was likely generated by owner complaints against commercial renters.

 

[lowlight]

I have changed the lead guest on a few reservations recently both by phone and chat and I was just asked the equivalent of the "check the box" on personal use. I said "yes" and based on the policies Disney has out there to date, I feel perfectly comfortable with that.

It puts the check in the box or else it gets the NO again.