Renter Problem Advice Needed UPDATE Post 64

[BWV Dreamin]

I honestly don't know, but I don't know that it would make any difference. We are responsible for all aspects of our reservations, whether we are the guests or not.

Not so, please see my above post.

 

[RobDoc]

When making a reservation for someone else, can you request that no room charges are allowed?

Nope - unless the reservation is made in your name and no one else's and you are the one who checks in.

In addition, if you are renting a reservation you are supposed to inform MS of that arrangement. Perhaps, if MS knows this is a rental they would treat the reservation a little differently, but without that disclosure MS needs to assume that the occupants are guests of the member and will treat the guests under that assumption.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Nope - unless the reservation is made in your name and no one else's and you are the one who checks in.

Sorry, don't understand this. The reservation is "not" in my name. I won't be responsible for their credit card purchase's or denials. I have confirmed this.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Nope - unless the reservation is made in your name and no one else's and you are the one who checks in.

In addition, if you are renting a reservation you are supposed to inform MS of that arrangement. Perhaps, if MS knows this is a rental they would treat the reservation a little differently, but without that disclosure MS needs to assume that the occupants are guests of the member and will treat the guests under that assumption.

Friend, rental, family, makes no difference.

 

[RobDoc]

I just got off the phone with the resort front desk, back office, and MS. This is what I am being told. When a renter checks in, they have to present a valid credit card in order to charge to the room. No cash room charges allowed. Then, at the time of purchase, whether it be merchandise or dining, the card is run through at the time of the event. If there is not available credit on the credit card, the purchase is denied. THE OWNER IS NOT HELD RESPONSIBLE. Now we are not talking room damages. I think this is really being blown out of proportion.

While you might have been told this, in actual practice DVC resorts have held members responsible for unpaid charges to the room reservations made using their points. You may even be able to provide the names of the CMs who have provided this information, but unless "they" are willing to guarantee (in writing) that their statements are valid and that they will compensate members for any variance or inconvenience, their comments are just that - the personal opinion of these CMs and not a valid policy of Disney unless Disney will absolutely support those comments.

Feel free to provide their names and DVC status so that members who are challenged in the future can support their position using CM validation per your comments. If you are willing to personally guarantee any charges related to these policys, please feel free to provide appropriate information publicly so that members can direct the expenses appropriately.

Thanks, this should clear all of this up once-and-for-all and no one will ever be asked for payment made by their guests or renters ever again since they now have someone willing to guarantee any unpaid charges.

I think this is a most generous offer on your part! Kudos to you !!

 

[DebbieB]

The other thread I posted did have it in writing. It is from 2005 so someone may want to send an e-mail to get it again.

Originally Posted by Duckfan-in-Chicago
For anyone intrested, this is a reply I got from DVC today about their policy:

In response to your question regarding Member liability for guest folios (incidental charges to the room), the current policy is that a Member is not responsible for the payment of a folio that was incurred by the Member's guest(s) staying on Member's Vacation Points, unless the Member authorized himself/herself as the responsible party when signing the registration card upon check-in at the front desk. If we are unable to locate a guest of a Member who has outstanding charges, we may request the Member's assistance in contacting that guest in order to properly bill them.

If a Member, however, has an outstanding folio from his/her own stay (or the exception noted above), banking and borrowing privileges may be suspended until the outstanding balance is paid as stated in the Home Resort Rules and Regulations, Section II, paragraph 5.c(1).

I hope that this assists in clearing up the policy surrounding the payment of folio charges. Thank you for the opportunity to address your inquiry. If you have any further questions, I can be contacted at, 1-800-******** and touch option "1" for Member Accounting and ask for Donna Bennett or Karen Schattle. Thank you for your question.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

The other thread I posted did have it in writing. It is from 2005 so someone may want to send an e-mail to get it again.

Thank you Debbie for this post. This is exactly what I was told. I will be printing this off for my records. This should put to rest this issue about CC purchases and guests.

 

[disneynutz]

We had a renter who added the DDP at check in and AKV let them do it. The Front Desk canceled the original reservation and put our points into holding. Then they made a new reservation using borrowed points adding the DDP. All of this was done without my knowledge or approval.

It took MS a week or so and several phone calls to fix our points. When I complained to management about what had happened, I was told that they couldn't fault a Cast Member for trying to make someones stay magical.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

We had a renter who added the DDP at check in and AKV let them do it. The Front Desk canceled the original reservation and put our points into holding. Then they made a new reservation using borrowed points adding the DDP. All of this was done without my knowledge or approval.

It took MS a week or so and several phone calls to fix our points. When I complained to management about what had happened, I was told that they couldn't fault a Cast Member for trying to make someones stay magical.

At least MS made it right. DDP can not be made on the spot. A no brainer who was at fault.

 

[joeytdog]

I have read over this thread lightly....and here is what I think:

-It seems to have veered off topic but on the OP's question. I would at first be taken back but after some thought would work with the new renter to secure payment. Once payment was secured I would refund the 50% to the original renter. I am taking this from the stance of being a renter the last 3 years. However I paid 100% upfront with the understanding that the res could not be cancelled. However, if something were to happen and i needed to cancel, like a medical emergency, which this sounds like it is, I would hope the renter would work with me to find a replacement. I mean of course he or she could just tell me too bad, but I believe in karma......

-Now for the other issue, I do remeber the thread where there was a a situation where the owner was ultimately responsible, however, in the thousands of cases of rentals, I would venture this has happenned how many times?????? I mean , as a renter, you really assume all risk. What is to stop an owner from cashing my check or collecting paypal and then cancelling my reservation. What could I do? Take them to court? Yeah right. So this small chance, extremely small chance that I could damage the room and the owner be held repsonsible is a small risk in compararison to the leap of faith the renter accepts in the process

All is JIMO

Good Luck

And I hope you, the renter, and the new renter find an aimabacle soltuion to all parties involved

 

[DVCGeek]

We had a renter who added the DDP at check in and AKV let them do it. The Front Desk canceled the original reservation and put our points into holding. Then they made a new reservation using borrowed points adding the DDP. All of this was done without my knowledge or approval.

It took MS a week or so and several phone calls to fix our points. When I complained to management about what had happened, I was told that they couldn't fault a Cast Member for trying to make someones stay magical.

Why weren't the holding points used? I don't understand why adding DDP would require canceling and rebooking a reservation or have anything to do with the # of points used. Isn't DDP only a "cash" purchase and don't you normally pay when check in? Now I must admit I think i saw that you have to add it at least 24 hours prior to check in or something like that, but why would they cancel a reservation instead of just waving that 24 hour requirement in this case?

 

[CarolAnnC]

The language has to be carefully considered. The post quoted from 2005, states the Member's Guest not Renter. There is a huge difference.

Plus, what Doc said is true, what happens in actuality is often times different from spoken or casual communications. There have been folks who have had their DVC memberships frozen while there were issues regarding room charges and more by their renters.

I would bet if one of the flat screen tv's were to disappear from a room, or extensive damages occurred, the owner would most certainly be held liable. Just as in the case of a tenant sub-letting an apartment.

Disney has a fantastic legal team, and I would not want to go head to head with them myself, for sure.

 

[vicki_c]

Then, at the time of purchase, whether it be merchandise or dining, the card is run through at the time of the event. If there is not available credit on the credit card, the purchase is denied.

I don't believe this is true in my own experience. Just like putting charging privileges on your KTTW card at ANY Disney resort, they do not charge it at the time of purchase. They charge it to the room and when you hit the limit of your room charge ($1500 for a deluxe or DVC), THEN they charge it all at once to your credit card. Then your charging privileges start over at $0. This has been the case at every Disney resort I've ever stayed at, including our DVC BCV stay this past December.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I don't believe this is true in my own experience. Just like putting charging privileges on your KTTW card at ANY Disney resort, they do not charge it at the time of purchase. They charge it to the room and when you hit the limit of your room charge ($1500 for a deluxe or DVC), THEN they charge it all at once to your credit card. Then your charging privileges start over at $0. This has been the case at every Disney resort I've ever stayed at, including our DVC BCV stay this past December.

I questioned this same exact senario. I was told the purchase is still put through the card reader using your KTTW card.. So there must be some way they know that there is available credit at the time of purchase.Maybe that's what's determined at the time the KTTW cards are made. I don't know the exact procedure when it comes to validating the card. At least if I do rent I won't need to worry about it. It will all be on the "guest".

 

[CarolMN]

Why weren't the holding points used? I don't understand why adding DDP would require canceling and rebooking a reservation or have anything to do with the # of points used. Isn't DDP only a "cash" purchase and don't you normally pay when check in? Now I must admit I think i saw that you have to add it at least 24 hours prior to check in or something like that, but why would they cancel a reservation instead of just waving that 24 hour requirement in this case?

Front Desk CMs have the ability to access member accounts. Unfortunately, most of them do not have the training to do some of the things they attempt. We ran into a problem a while back when a front desk CM gave us an unrequested "complimentary upgrade".

All's well that ends well, but I learned that it is very important to keep a close eye on our account balance as well as the status of the points.

 

[Sammie]

The language has to be carefully considered. The post quoted from 2005, states the Member's Guest not Renter. There is a huge difference.

Plus, what Doc said is true, what happens in actuality is often times different from spoken or casual communications. There have been folks who have had their DVC memberships frozen while there were issues regarding room charges and more by their renters.

I would bet if one of the flat screen tv's were to disappear from a room, or extensive damages occurred, the owner would most certainly be held liable. Just as in the case of a tenant sub-letting an apartment.

Disney has a fantastic legal team, and I would not want to go head to head with them myself, for sure.

Carol Ann is sharing some good advice here, DVC's interpretation of guest and renter is very different and in 2005 it was definitely different from what it is today.

And yes members are ultimately responsible for any damage or outstanding money owed. Certainly the renter or guest would be the first line of recovery pursued but until the money is recovered the member is responsible and their account is frozen. If pursuing the guest or renter does not render a satisfactory monetary result, the member would have to cover the expense in order to free up their account.

When you call MS and book a reservation in your name and member account you assume all responsiblity from that point on.

 

[DebbieB]

I still don't think DVC could hold the member legally responsible for the credit card charges. Using a room charge is not part of the DVC contract. The member just allowed the renter to use the room, it was Disney who accepted the credit card. I think they put the hold on the points to try to get the member to assist in getting the money but in the end I don't think they could hold the member responsible. The e-mail I posted above and BWV Dreamin's phone calls this week confirmed this.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I still don't think DVC could hold the member legally responsible for the credit card charges. Using a room charge is not part of the DVC contract. The member just allowed the renter to use the room, it was Disney who accepted the credit card. I think they put the hold on the points to try to get the member to assist in getting the money but in the end I don't think they could hold the member responsible. The e-mail I posted above and BWV Dreamin's phone calls this week confirmed this.

But the POS does state that the owner is responsible for maintenance, repair and replacement "to bear in entirety any expense of repairs or replacements to the Condominimum property including a Unit, a Vacation Home in a unit or its components, furnishings, carpet, appliances or other property, real, personal or mixed, occasioned by the specific use or abuse by any Owner or any leasee, guest, exchanger (!!), tenant, or invitee of said Owner." It goes on to say that "the renting Club Member will be responsible for the acts and omissions of th renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Club Member to use the Vacation Home."

 

[bobbiwoz]

Why weren't the holding points used? I don't understand why adding DDP would require canceling and rebooking a reservation or have anything to do with the # of points used. Isn't DDP only a "cash" purchase and don't you normally pay when check in? Now I must admit I think i saw that you have to add it at least 24 hours prior to check in or something like that, but why would they cancel a reservation instead of just waving that 24 hour requirement in this case?

I don't know for sure, but twice so far in my membership, I've had the front desk of the resort,once at AKV and once at BCV, modify the reservation and in each case the original points of the reservation went into holding, and the point "mess" had to be straightened out when I returned home. T

When all was said and done, it did not take a lot of trouble on my part to get things straightened out, especially the second time when I had the previous experience under my belt. It's just the way the system is set up and in the end, all of my points were in the correct place.

Bobbi

PS. In one case my reservation failed to show that I had the dining plan, when e-mails showed that I had ordered it, and the second time, I had friends join me that day and stayed, so I wanted keys for them.

 

[DebbieB]

But the POS does state that the owner is responsible for maintenance, repair and replacement "to bear in entirety any expense of repairs or replacements to the Condominimum property including a Unit, a Vacation Home in a unit or its components, furnishings, carpet, appliances or other property, real, personal or mixed, occasioned by the specific use or abuse by any Owner or any leasee, guest, exchanger (!!), tenant, or invitee of said Owner." It goes on to say that "the renting Club Member will be responsible for the acts and omissions of th renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Club Member to use the Vacation Home."

I contend that room charging is not part of the use of the vacation home. Nowhere in the agreement does it say the member is entitled to room charging, therefore becomes part of the use of the vacation home. When the renter handed his credit card over at the front desk, they prepared the paperwork and the renter signed it, it was agreement between them, not the member. The member would only be responsible if they authorized it, which the e-mail from DVC above states. Disney generally uses the term "guest" for everyone, I don't think trying to split hairs between "guest" and "renter" makes a difference in this case. All the contract says regarding renters is that renters are not entitled to member priviledges, room charging is not a member priviledge but if it was then renters could not use it.

I agree that a member would be responsible for renter's damages to the room, according to your quote above.