Reasons for no gratuity in 2008 DDP???

[gina2000]

I will take enough Disney Dollars with me to cover 20% on the bill. If the server deserves 20% that's what I will give. If not then I will the appropriate amount. I kind of like being able to control the amount. There are some buffets that the server barely keeps your drink full, they didn't deserve the 18% they were receiving. I will go to every meal with the intention of tipping 20%, it is now up to the server to earn that 20%.

Please don't tip the servers with Disney Dollars. They deserve cash so they can spend it as they see fit.

 

[girli565]

Yeah, but look at all the comic relief we get for a penny on the dollar!

Between the city and the county commissioners, we've got one of the best entertainment values in the U.S...and all for a penny!

Haha, that's true. Entertainment like the 6pm news can't come cheap enough!

 

[tfoster]

When I read posts along these lines, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Everyone -- for some indecipherable reason -- gravitates to the irrelevent question of whether the tip is automatic or optional and how that might/might not affect service. That's not the point, folks!

(For one thing, if your party has 6 or more people, the tip IS going to be added automatically anyway. For another thing, if you order anything not covered by DDP, 18% is going to be added to that check, too. But that's not the point either.)

The point is, formerly the tip was paid by DISNEY...not us! With the change, Disney pockets that cash and the responsibility (all of it) is now ours. The tip, which formerly we did NOT pay, WE NOW PAY starting 1/1/2008.

It has nothing to do with service. The 18% tip on an average TS meal (+/- $50) is $9.00. Prior to this change, we paid ZERO. With this change, every time someone's card gets swiped for one TS meal, we PAY the $9 and Disney's little cash register goes, "Ching, ching!"

At $9 for each and every adult TS meal eaten during a year, that is a TON of extra revenue with zero cost to Disney...because all of the cost has been shifted to the customer.

That is the entire point of this change, and it's mind-boggling that people don't see it.

 

[maxiesmom]

When I read posts along these lines, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Everyone -- for some indecipherable reason -- gravitates to the irrelevent question of whether the tip is automatic or optional and how that might/might not affect service. That's not the point, folks!

(For one thing, if your party has 6 or more people, the tip IS going to be added automatically anyway. For another thing, if you order anything not covered by DDP, 18% is going to be added to that check, too. But that's not the point either.)

The point is, formerly the tip was paid by DISNEY...not us! With the change, Disney pockets that cash and the responsibility (all of it) is now ours. The tip, which formerly we did NOT pay, WE NOW PAY starting 1/1/2008.

It has nothing to do with service. The 18% tip on an average TS meal (+/- $50) is $9.00. Prior to this change, we paid ZERO. With this change, every time someone's card gets swiped for one TS meal, we PAY the $9 and Disney's little cash register goes, "Ching, ching!"

At $9 for each and every adult TS meal eaten during a year, that is a TON of extra revenue with zero cost to Disney...because all of the cost has been shifted to the customer.

That is the entire point of this change, and it's mind-boggling that people don't see it.

While I will agree that Disney is making more money out of not paying the tip, I do think it will help the guest experience as well. Now the server will actually have to be nice to you and do their job to receive a tip. It is not automatic, unlike when it was paid by the DDP and they got their 18% tip even if they totally ignored a table. I would much rather pay my own tip and be able to adjust the amount based on what kind of service I received. Which is supposed to be the whole idea of a tip anyway. You may not have thought of it as your money, but I would really resent someone getting 18% of my bill when they did a terrible job.

 

[JimMIA]

Please don't tip the servers with Disney Dollars. They deserve cash so they can spend it as they see fit.

Yeah, I was wondering about that post when I saw it!

I'm sure people who live and work at Disney don't have much need for Disney Dollars! I doubt if they will rush right over to Team Disney and get a new teeshirt.

They also know we get Disney Dollars for nothing, and my guess is they'd either think I was tacky or be a little insulted if they were tipped with Disney Dollars...even though they could spend them.

I'd spend my Disney Dollars on my own family and give the servers cash -- which as Yogi correctly points out, "...is just as good as money!"

 

[eeyoregon]

Speaking of the bounce back...would have been nice to have more than 1 days notice to decide if we wanted to do it! They tell you the last day of your stay = didn't exactly have an extra $400 left for deposits. So, no free dining for us next year either.

Personally, I think they should offer a choice between appetizer or desert rather than tossing the appetizer out the window. I rarely eat desert but LOVE some of those appetizers!

 

[eeyoregon]

I believe the people who want better services WON. Next year, we will still pay for the DDP, but the servers need to be very wary about their attitudes toward the diners.

Boy is that true!! Just back and we had the crappy "because you are on free dining plan and I am getting my 18% regardless" server at Mama Melroses. He was horrible and let me tell you that I will put up with a lot but he really pushed the envelope!!

 

[JimMIA]

While I will agree that Disney is making more money out of not paying the tip, I do think it will help the guest experience as well. Now the server will actually have to be nice to you and do their job to receive a tip. It is not automatic, unlike when it was paid by the DDP and they got their 18% tip even if they totally ignored a table. I would much rather pay my own tip and be able to adjust the amount based on what kind of service I received. Which is supposed to be the whole idea of a tip anyway. You may not have thought of it as your money, but I would really resent someone getting 18% of my bill when they did a terrible job.

Well, if you want to pay $20 per day extra for two adults, that's your prerogative. It's your money; spend it any way you want.

But I sincerely hope nobody believes service was the issue in this decision.

If you believe that, I have some nice waterfront land in the heart of the Everglades I'd like to sell you, and I have a buddy in New York who's got a bridge he's been trying to unload for a while.

Actually, if you pay full price for my land, we'll give you the bridge for nothing -- it'll be just like "free" DDP!

 

[eliza61]

The reality is that the union and the company came to an agreement, which did away with the gratuity included in the Dining Plan. Both sides are equally responsible for that. Neither side should be blaming the other, nor should either side disclaim their own responsibility since both were party to the agreement.

The question of "why", when asked by a customer, is, I believe, a question that should never be answered. That information is strictly proprietary, and anyone who actually knows the information would be in violation of generally accepted rules of business ethics to reveal it. (That's why we can rest assured that anyone actually answering the question almost surely doesn't really know the answer, but just expressing their own personal opinion about it.) The responsibility of a company or a worker to a customer is to explain what is offered, not to explain why the offering is the way it is.

Well said as always, bicker!

 

[JimMIA]

Boy is that true!! Just back and we had the crappy "because you are on free dining plan and I am getting my 18% regardless" server at Mama Melroses. He was horrible and let me tell you that I will put up with a lot but he really pushed the envelope!!

Sorry you had that experience. Did you complain to the manager? If so, what did they do?

 

[eliza61]

It has nothing to do with service. The 18% tip on an average TS meal (+/- $50) is $9.00. Prior to this change, we paid ZERO. With this change, every time someone's card gets swiped for one TS meal, we PAY the $9 and Disney's little cash register goes, "Ching, ching!"

At $9 for each and every adult TS meal eaten during a year, that is a TON of extra revenue with zero cost to Disney...because all of the cost has been shifted to the customer.

That is the entire point of this change, and it's mind-boggling that people don't see it.

So JimMia, tell me how you really feel. We do see it.

 

[dis-happy]

I'm not too much into the DDP either way since we usually find that the DDE suits our needs better. But the servers do need to take a little resonsibility for driving up the costs of the DDP to Disney. I remember when it first came out there were postings about the CM's who were encouraging the patrons to order the most expensive of everything because their tip was based on the final check amount. Am I the only one who remembers those stories of wasted Kitchen Sinks, lobster add-ons, etc? While some of those choices have been eliminated it still goes on to some extent. The customers who choose the dining plan do continue to do it too (again, the posts that say "I managed to get $800. worth of food for only $200. OOP, for example). I'm sure when Disney first figured the costs they expected it to be based on historical eating habits at these restaurants for $xx.xx, instead it became a huge game to max out the tab. So it makes sense for some of the costs to get redistributed.

 

[Steelersfan]

It's very true that both sides came to an agreement but if it is true that the servers make up a very small segment of the union (which was suggested previously), their wants and needs may have been overruled in favor of a larger issue that affects a greater population of the union. This issue may also have had no bearing on their personal situations but may have been in the interest of the majority of the union. Not all factions are equally represented in union negotiations.



Our teacher's union is similar. We have a TON of young teachers who care much more about getting a big pay raise rather that getting retirement benefits.

The last contract passed overwhelmingly and in it retirees lost medical coverage for their spouses. As a result, people who were ready to retire had to keep working because they couldn't afford the health care for their spouse.

Basically, these few people were overruled and outvoted. They felt betrayed and angry because the group of young teachers worried about their own interests, not those of these older teachers.

I voted with the older teachers out of loyalty, but in reality they have nobody but themselves to blame. This was a VERY important issue to them, yet they trusted other people to negotiate the contract. Obviously, those people didn't have the vested interested in the retirement issues.

The lesson I learned (and I'm sure the servers now learned) is that you have to get involved in the negotiations yourself and DO NOT BRING IT TO A VOTE until the issues YOU care about are resolved.

Basically, nobody wants to be the person who has to spend all the time and energy negotiating, but everyone wants to complain when it goes down wrong. If you take the time to get involved at least you will be happy with the results. That's what our plan is. Come retirement time, I will be on the team as will 2 or 3 other people my age!

I do realize that this union is different and much bigger than mine, but I bet the servers wish they were more vocal, especially when they knew they were out numbered come vote time!

It is all a moot point now because the servers lost and so did the customers. I sure won't get the dining plan again.

Disney will make even more money because the restaurants were full before and had demand that could have filled them two more times. What do they care if the restaurant is still full and they can only fill it one more time. It is still full, there is still demand and they are making a bigger profit.

At least as a customer, the servers will have to hustle for their tips now!

 

[Tricia1972]

OR...if you order something not included in DDP, like an appetizer, specialty beverage, alcohol, etc. Anything you get a separate cash check for will carry the automatic 18% service charge.

Also the automatic gratuity for large parties has been there for years. You just didn't notice it because you weren't paying the tip. (A little fact that seems to have escaped a lot of us! ) The only change is that in 2008, they are lowering the threshhold from parties of 8 to parties of 6.

That party size, incidentally, has nothing to do with how you're paying the bill. It applies to ALL parties of 6 -- DDP, not DDP or split between DDP and non-DDP participants.

Wait a minute! I have a migraine tonight so please forgive me if I misread.

Are you saying that a party of 4 and I order something off of the DDP, then they automatically charge me 18% gratuity on those items? I know that this is what they're doing now (for our CONVENIENCE of a consistent tip), but you're saying that even once the tip for the meal is on us (and we can choose to tip 15 or 20%) the items not on the plan are automatically 18%?!?!

I actually didn't notice the tip for the larger group because I haven't been part of one. We went to WDW twice, once in 2004 with no Dining Package and a party of 4 and once in April with a party of two on the DDP.

Thanks for further clarifying my point on the parties of 6 or more, some people may have assumed DDP because I wasn't specific in naming all forms of payment.

 

[maxiesmom]

Please don't tip the servers with Disney Dollars. They deserve cash so they can spend it as they see fit.

At Cinderella's Gala Feast last year, I paid the bill with Disney Dollars. And I had included a tip with that. We asked our server when he picked up the bill if it was alright, or if he wanted us to switch it over to regular cash. He laughed and said that the Disney Dollars were just fine. I thought from that that maybe Disney let the CMs switch Disney Dollars over to regualr cash, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[keishashadow]

I shall preface my comments by stating that I wear both Mickey Ears (stockholder & union supporter)

FL is a "right-to-work" state, no employees are obligated to join any union...let alone a watered down one. However, the one in place is the official bargining unit.

Evidently, in the contract negotiations, the servers were thrown to the wolves; happens often - usually dependent on a main point that mgmt wants The oft told - the needs of the many outweigh the good of the few.

Just wonder if it was intended to be a sleight-of-hand price jump or a way to get some of the lackadasial servers to wake up?

Server I spoke to in June, verified this info...also stated that mgmt & union are in agreement to a re-evaluation as to whether the servers are receiving less than the suggested 18% anyone wanna place a bet, vegas wouldn't cover that one

Supposedly, Disney will take care of the difference in tips; hope so.

fyi, same CM indicated that they are willing to take a wait & see attitude. Evidently, that position is the top of the food chain (5 or 6 other CMs happy to step up to the plate for every position ).

 

[JimMIA]

Wait a minute! I have a migraine tonight so please forgive me if I misread.

Are you saying that a party of 4 and I order something off of the DDP, then they automatically charge me 18% gratuity on those items? I know that this is what they're doing now (for our CONVENIENCE of a consistent tip), but you're saying that even once the tip for the meal is on us (and we can choose to tip 15 or 20%) the items not on the plan are automatically 18%?!?!

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Here it is, directly from page 5 of the 2008 DDP Brochure. I added the emphasis.

Q. Are gratuities included?
A. No, gratuities are not included unless otherwise indicated. An 18% gratuity will be added automatically for parties of 6 or more. A gratuity may also be added automatically for ordered items that are not included in the Disney Dining Plan (e.g. alcoholic beverages).

 

[Tricia1972]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Here it is, directly from page 5 of the 2008 DDP Brochure. I added the emphasis.

Q. Are gratuities included?
A. No, gratuities are not included unless otherwise indicated. An 18% gratuity will be added automatically for parties of 6 or more. A gratuity may also be added automatically for ordered items that are not included in the Disney Dining Plan (e.g. alcoholic beverages).

That's nuts! Thanks for posting that.

 

[Dizserver]

First off, thanks to all for their replies and input.

A specil thanks to the one person who verified they too were told by a service rep. that the SERVERS wanted this change in DDP. This is the most disturbing part of the issue for us Disney servers. Any further reports of this (or of other responses by service reps) is appreciated. I am wanting to keep an open mind that this is one guy's response and a not a company line provided to the Disney telephone reps - time will tell.

Imagine being a bellhop (who relies on tips) and your company tells the guests checking in that the bellhop is the reason their hotel costs $20 more per night this year. Would you tip the bellhop??? Or would you resent the bellhop?

Now imagine a server's company is telling guests they have to pay the tip out of pocket, a sizable increase in expense over the course of a week for sure! And lo and behold, your server is responsible. Would you resent the server? Some will, I assure you.

Thank you JIMinMIA for being so completely logical, well-spoken (written) and calling a spade a spade.

Let it be very clear again, and I apologize for shouting. DISNEY SERVERS ARE NOT THE REASON FOR THE DDP GRATUITY CHANGES. Here's how union negotiations went down: Disney claimed they were losing money on the DDP (forget that it keeps their hotels completely full year round now), but they would not change the price of the plan. Also, they were firm that they could not change the price of a packaged plan for a family of 4 for $1600 (hotel, food, tickets) that would be featured in future commercials on tv and online. As such, they had to cut costs without "appearing" to raise the cost to guests (that is almost a direct quote). Thus, they figured out they could charge more for the DDP while keeping the price basically the same -actually $1 "less". And they could charge more than $1,600 for the family of 4 at a value resort, but still advertise it as an all-inclusive $1,600.

Union members in negotiations were told Disney would not budge on this issue. They would never compromise this issue. It didn't matter if it was rejected and they re-negotiated 100 times, they wouldn't budge. It's like a dad telling his 15 year old daughter she is grounded and that's that, no arguments. Deal with it or move out.

Servers are taking a wait and see attitude with this one but are mostly pessimistic. Anyone who read this whole thread saw a European's post about tipping being a foreign concept in Europe (as far as a means for total income). Yes, the British are getting more accustomed to our American tipping system (and the Brits are ALWAYS friendly and polite), but in general European tipping is a crapshoot for us servers. A nd yes, they make up a substantial amount of business for disney table service restaurants, I assure you. SOme foreigners can't even read English ( I know I couldn't read Japanese, so I understand) enough to know to present the hotel card to their server before leaving the restaurant. Ask any disney server and they will recount tales of chasing Japanese girls or German family or whoever out of the restaurant to get the DDP card to swipe. People hear something is "pre-paid" and assume it is taken care of. If they are confused about this, do you think their will be confusion over gratuity changes now? You bet! Will servers get completely stiffed more? You bet.

As others confirmed, the servers make up a tiny fraction of the overall union, and the servers portion was piggybacked on larger issues for full contract approval. Every server I know voted against the new contract, every single one. It didn't matter. The contract was approved.

Ultimately, my post isn't about "oh, feel sorry for us servers" or "is the DDP still worth it" or anything like that. That is for other threads.

The single main point of this thread is that DIsney reps are now telling guests, when asked, that their servers are the reason for the extra OOP expense to guests, when in fact NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. If true, it seems to be a classic example of leaving the front-line blue-collar guy/gal out to dry, blaming the little man, (insert your own cliche here), etc. etc. It disappoints me as an employee. I am a firm believer in the Disney product but am disgusted by this turn of events by the powers that be. They got what they wanted and are now blaming the people hurt by this change. Disgusting.

Thanks for letting me vent.

As a final side note, I want all DDP guests to know that while bad servers are out there and probably slack off, the majority of servers appreciate you greatly. The reality is that the DDP has kept our tables relatively full during the slow time of year (now, for example). With DDP, we make our income steady year round insted of just summer, Christmas, and spring break. This is not a suck up, just the truth. Disney servers before DDP made much less money than with DDP. You are not resented, just the opposite.

 

[jpeka65844]

Hmmm....interesting debate.

I understand that under the 2007 DDP, Disney paid servers gratuity on the perceived value of the TS meal, not on its actual total, right?

If so, take our dinner at Le Cellier in March. If its perceived value is only $26 on DDP, then the server would only get $5-6 tip. Our final bill would've been $104 and if we hadn't been on the plan, we would've tipped $15-20.

Not sure if I have my math right here, but that's a HUGE deal! If I were a server, I'd probably vote to drop it too! Sounds like Disney was stiffing and servers would rather trust guests to do the right thing rather than being bilked by their employer!

Or maybe I have it all wrong???


Denice T.
Olathe, KS