Pro Choice or Not

[Fitswimmer]

The only ones demonizing the entire pro-life community, through their actions, are the Randall Terry's and the Flip Benhem's of the active pro-life movement. I would respectfully suggest you tell them they aren't the entire pro-life movement and not people like me. I also respectfully suggest you also tell the Republican rightwing that one can indeed be pro-life and respect the true meaning of Roe v Wade.

It seems to me that the people who benefit most from the Randall Terrys of the world is NARAL. The fact that there are pro-life people out there who are working to help women and lobbying for women's issues is quickly swept away by the Pro choice movement. It's much better to keep the Randall Terrys first in everyone's mind. Good and compassionate pro-lifers would only confuse the issue.

The Republican right wing and this President do NOT speak for me, nor do they speak for my friends in the pro life ministry. According to the latest polls, it doesn't speak for too many others in the country either at 28%.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Different things work for different people.

Absolutely,and had I gotten pregnant at 15,I probably would have been a very young parent...At leastit would have been my choice.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Believe this one or not, you and I are not that far apart when it comes to the issue of abortion. We both believe in life and abortion only in the most dire of circumstances. We both believe in privacy. That is the mainstream position. You wouldn't know it if you listened to the WH or Congress or the state legislatures. The fact is most people feel the way we do. And that is what Roe v Wade really means.

I know we're not. I'm just sticking up for the good people that I know who happen to disagree with me on the issue. They work really hard and do a lot of good and it makes me angry to see all of that ignored and see them lumped in with people like Randall Terry.

It's like saying all Pro Choice people want to see more abortions. Most pro choice people I know+ don't believe that at all! Most Pro Choice people believe that abortion should be available, but rare. I would love to see those stats in NJ go down, not because of laws, but because of wise decisions by women AND men before the child is conceived.

 

[moviegirl11]

I am pro-life. I dont believe it is right to destroy a human being just because it is unwanted by the parent. I believe life begins at conception. Therefore, to me, killing an unborn child is not much different than killing a child after its born. When you believe that an unborn child is a living human being, abortion is not a private matter any more than domestic violence is or any other situation in which a fellow human is being harmed.

The debate is touchy because it really comes down to when you believe life starts. If you dont think life starts until after the baby is out or until some point during the pregnancy when the baby is more alive than it was earlier, than I guess I could understand why people dont think abortion should be against the law and that its a private matter.

I find it interesting that far fewer men tend to weigh in on this, convinced that it is a woman's issue. While women may carry the child, the conception required both genders and men deserve as much of a say as women to. It seems unfair to me that women can choose to keep a child then demand child support but if they choose to abort the child, the man who helped create it has no say. There's something very wrong about that.

I dont believe in standing outside of abortion clinics and screaming at the girls who go in or waving around posters with pictures of aborted fetuses on it but I do think abortion is morally wrong. I think the procedure is abused and taken way too lightly by SOME people. I also dont think that women who've had an abortion are unforgivable or anything like that, either. I'm willing to bet most of the people in this thread that are pro-choice probably havent had abortions but there are some people out there who've had three or four of them. Its unfortunate, thats all.

 

[Pigeon]

Re forcing women seeking abortions to be forced to sit through mandatory "counselling" about birth and adoption I'm all for it. But only if every pregant woman is forced to hear about the potential risks of pregnancy and giving birth, the costs of supporting and educating a child, and is fully apprised of her options to have an abortion or place her child for adoption.

I am for keeping abortion legal in all situations with no restrictions. It is not for me or for the government to decide about what another woman should do in any case where she is pregnant.

 

[Laura]

It's like saying all Pro Choice people want to see more abortions. Most pro choice people I know+ don't believe that at all! Most Pro Choice people believe that abortion should be available, but rare. I would love to see those stats in NJ go down, not because of laws, but because of wise decisions by women AND men before the child is conceived.

I think that's being realistic. Very very very few people like the idea of abortion. I like the way things are now; some restrictions on abortions, but not an all-out ban. I think many realize that an abortion ban won't eliminate all abortions. Making unplanned pregnancy a more rare occurrence is the best route.

 

[LuvDuke]

It seems to me that the people who benefit most from the Randall Terrys of the world is NARAL. The fact that there are pro-life people out there who are working to help women and lobbying for women's issues is quickly swept away by the Pro choice movement. It's much better to keep the Randall Terrys first in everyone's mind. Good and compassionate pro-lifers would only confuse the issue.

The Republican right wing and this President do NOT speak for me, nor do they speak for my friends in the pro life ministry. According to the latest polls, it doesn't speak for too many others in the country either at 28%.

If it wasn't for the fringes, we might actually build consensus in this country.

Btw, the fact is NARAL isn't so far from our position. This is their opening paragraph in their abortion section:

While it's critical to promote policies that help prevent unintended pregnancies and make abortion less necessary, NARAL Pro-Choice America also fights to protect the right to safe, legal abortion.

http://www.naral.org/

Choice means choice. The fact is most of us are pro-choice.

 

[moviegirl11]

I know we're not. I'm just sticking up for the good people that I know who happen to disagree with me on the issue. They work really hard and do a lot of good and it makes me angry to see all of that ignored and see them lumped in with people like Randall Terry.

It's like saying all Pro Choice people want to see more abortions. Most pro choice people I know+ don't believe that at all! Most Pro Choice people believe that abortion should be available, but rare. I would love to see those stats in NJ go down, not because of laws, but because of wise decisions by women AND men before the child is conceived.

I dont totally understand this logic. I mean I definitely support the sentiment - I'd love for abortion to be rare too but if I didn't think it was wrong, I dont think I'd care how many were taking place each year. The only reason I'm pro-life is because I believe life begins and conception and therefore, destroying an unborn child isnt any different than destroying it once its born. If I didnt believe that I wouldn't care about abortions either way. It wouldnt be any of my business what people did to their bodies.

So why do people want abortions to be rare but still think they should be allowed? This question isnt just to you, fitswimmer but to anyone who might agree with what you said.

And I definitely agree that it would be nice for the number of abortions to go down because people were being more careful about sex.

 

[LadyShiva]

And I definitely agree that it would be nice for the number of abortions to go down because people were being more careful about sex.

Just to address this point... The number of abortions is decreasing (please see statistics I posted a little further up), due to the use of injectible contraception. When you don't ovulate, you can't get pregnant. Does that version of contraception also jive with your belief system?

Brandie

 

[Fitswimmer]

So why do people want abortions to be rare but still think they should be allowed? This question isnt just to you, fitswimmer but to anyone who might agree with what you said.

Here's how I arrived at my position. It evolved out of my views on other life issues.

I'm against capital punishment, period. No exceptions. Our justice system is far from perfect, and therefore we have no business playing God and killing people.

I'm against an unjust war, which is why I'm against the war in Iraq. I support the war on terror, but not what's going on in Iraq. I agree with Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict on this issue.

A just war involves killing, people are going to die even in a just cause. Unless I'm going to be against ALL war, I'm acknowledging that people are going to die in a just war and some of them will be innocent. Therefore, I've acknowledged that innocent life can be sacrificed for a greater good-I don't want us ever to get to that point, but there are times when we have no choice.

I also support the right of individuals to sign living wills and veto extraordinary means to prolong life. According to my Priest, there is no conflict between Catholic teaching and a living will, so I have one.

As for abortion, I don't like it, and I don't think it should be used lightly, or for birth control. However, just like war is sometimes the best option in a list of unpleasant choices, there are situations where a safe legal abortion is the best option in a list of unpleasant choices. Yes, an innocent life is lost and everytime that happens I believe we are all reduced in some way. However, most of us acknowledge that innocent lives were lost in the course of WWII, but we also acknowledge that there was no other good option to stop Hitler.

 

[chobie]

Are financial reasons truly the number one reason for abortion? That would mean that when the laws about welfare $$ for children in NJ were changed back during Governor Whitman's term we would have seen an astronomical surge in abortions and I don't recall hearing about that from my pro-life friends.

I'm trying to find stats, but I haven't found anything that wasn't biased in favor of one side or another. I'll keep looking for something that isn't from Right to Life or NARAL or someone else connected with an agenda.

Even if you don't have the undisputed scientific data to back up what the main reason is for abortion, don't you think that financial/career/educational reasons, play a big part in the decision?

Don't you think the pro-life side might have a better time convincing people that they are sincere about being pro-life if they were more vocal and active about promoting taking care of that life once it is born? Yes, the diapers and second-hand cribs given out through church charities are nice, but they are not enough. And if the pro-life position prevails and we now have millions more babies being born in the next few years --are these charities going to be able to even make a dent in the need to take care of these babies?


And you wonder why the pro-choice side thinks that the other side beleives that life begins and conception and ends at birth?

 

[moviegirl11]

Here's how I arrived at my position. It evolved out of my views on other life issues.

I'm against capital punishment, period. No exceptions. Our justice system is far from perfect, and therefore we have no business playing God and killing people.

I'm against an unjust war, which is why I'm against the war in Iraq. I support the war on terror, but not what's going on in Iraq. I agree with Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict on this issue.

A just war involves killing, people are going to die even in a just cause. Unless I'm going to be against ALL war, I'm acknowledging that people are going to die in a just war and some of them will be innocent. Therefore, I've acknowledged that innocent life can be sacrificed for a greater good-I don't want us ever to get to that point, but there are times when we have no choice.

I also support the right of individuals to sign living wills and veto extraordinary means to prolong life. According to my Priest, there is no conflict between Catholic teaching and a living will, so I have one.

As for abortion, I don't like it, and I don't think it should be used lightly, or for birth control. However, just like war is sometimes the best option in a list of unpleasant choices, there are situations where a safe legal abortion is the best option in a list of unpleasant choices. Yes, an innocent life is lost and everytime that happens I believe we are all reduced in some way. However, most of us acknowledge that innocent lives were lost in the course of WWII, but we also acknowledge that there was no other good option to stop Hitler.

Well explained answer! Thank you I dont know if I totally agree with you there but I can definitely understand where you're coming from.

 

[LuvDuke]

Here's how I arrived at my position. It evolved out of my views on other life issues.

I'm against capital punishment, period. No exceptions. Our justice system is far from perfect, and therefore we have no business playing God and killing people.

I'm against an unjust war, which is why I'm against the war in Iraq. I support the war on terror, but not what's going on in Iraq. I agree with Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict on this issue.

A just war involves killing, people are going to die even in a just cause. Unless I'm going to be against ALL war, I'm acknowledging that people are going to die in a just war and some of them will be innocent. Therefore, I've acknowledged that innocent life can be sacrificed for a greater good-I don't want us ever to get to that point, but there are times when we have no choice.

I also support the right of individuals to sign living wills and veto extraordinary means to prolong life. According to my Priest, there is no conflict between Catholic teaching and a living will, so I have one.

As for abortion, I don't like it, and I don't think it should be used lightly, or for birth control. However, just like war is sometimes the best option in a list of unpleasant choices, there are situations where a safe legal abortion is the best option in a list of unpleasant choices. Yes, an innocent life is lost and everytime that happens I believe we are all reduced in some way. However, most of us acknowledge that innocent lives were lost in the course of WWII, but we also acknowledge that there was no other good option to stop Hitler.

Take out the part about the priest and I could've written this.

 

[chobie]

Just to address this point... The number of abortions is decreasing (please see statistics I posted a little further up), due to the use of injectible contraception. When you don't ovulate, you can't get pregnant. Does that version of contraception also jive with your belief system?

Brandie

Well, that still means girls are able to spread their legs without suffering consequences.

Everytime a discussion about abortion comes up, you get the people who are just hell-bent on punishing women for having sex. Even in the thread about the 17 year old with an anecephellic baby, you had people bringing up the "consequences of sex" thing.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Well explained answer! Thank you I dont know if I totally agree with you there but I can definitely understand where you're coming from.

thanks. I'm not trying to convert everyone to my point of view, I was just trying to show that I did put some thought into it. Sort of like when my fourth grade teacher told me to "show my work" in math class!

I used to be 100%, no questions asked Pro-life, but then I started looking at the inconsistencies in my feelings and adjusted accordingly. It's not a black and white world, and I've found it impossible to hold black and white positions anymore.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Take out the part about the priest and I could've written this.

First round is on me!

 

[LuvDuke]

First round is on me!

I'll save you a seat at the bar in Purgatory.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I'll save you a seat at the bar in Purgatory.

Thanks! Non-smoking please.

 

[barbeml]

...without being locked or devolving into a slugfest. Gives me some hope!

 

[LadyShiva]

Thanks! Non-smoking please.

*chortle* Great repartee, guys.

Brandie