Potty accidents and PreK

[famofsix]

FranP is is possible to take him out of the public preschool and send him to a private school or a drop off preschool (moms day out)? You don't want to start the schooling years with a teacher that first communicates through the principal in writing and not speaking with the parent.

Also, it is possible to help a child become "social" through story hour, gymnastics, soccer, art classes, Kindermusic etc. and not the traditional school setting.

 

[WDWAurora]

I'm actually dealing with this as a part of my school job...In NC (not sure about ANYWHERE else, just telling you requirements here) the daycare classrooms have to be licensed. I'm in the process of having a class licensed, so I can tell you there is a lot involved. If the class is going to be changing diapers (which mine do because they are for exceptional children) they have to meet sanitation rules, i.e. have hot water, one sink just for handwashing and cleaning up after diaper changes, etc, etc. The classes that are for non-exceptional children are not licensed this way. It is in the parent handbook that kids who have incidents will not be allowed to stay. They understand that accidents happen, but they would be risking their license to keep him-and then he still wouldn't be able to come, because they would be closed!

As annoying as the rule may seem, the licensing laws are created with the best interest of the children in mind. It sounds as though he is not fully potty trained, and the teacher should have perhaps made it clear that full potty training is expected for the program, but it is their job to not keep children who have accidents. You want them to meet all the sanitation requirements.

 

[java]

him - no, she didn't give any suggestions, she went right to the principal. I would have hoped there would have been a way to try to help the kid.

Um there is a way- potty train him. Then he can attend preschool. It's not a school's responsibility to potty train a child. Sorry but I think you are missing the illegal stuff I mentioned- licensing laws and pooping accidents. Imagine if every child in the class was having potty issues? What would get done at school.
I understand he is your grandchild. And you want the best for him. Try to see it from the schools perspective. If he is not trained find a school that doesn't have potty training as a requirement. If your daughter told the school he was trained when he is not- then that's a breaking of a contract. And they have the right to end his time there.

Here's hoping that he finds a school that can fit his needs.

 

[FranP]

And you are missing what I said - he is trained, he had an accident, perhaps from the stress of being at school. You seriously can't believe that no other kid in the world has had an accident in PreK.

 

[LBAK]

I am a pre-K teacher and I was a director of a private pre-school. Most public and private schools that are not daycare will not all ow a child that is not toilet trained to attend. In my school if a child has an accident we have to call the parent to either come change him or pick him up. We are not allowed by law to change them. This is for the teachers protection. We are also not allowed to wipe the children. Unfortunately in this day and age all a child has to say to a parent is that they were touched inappropriately and then there is trouble for everyone involved. so for the school's protection and the teacher's most school's without daycare licensing cannot take a child that is not trained. It's very sad.

 

[FranP]

Everyone seems to think that we have not trained this kid and/or we are trying to have the school train him - this is absolutely not so. The kid had an accident, plain and simple. If every kid who had an accident in preK had to be taken out of school, there would be very few kids left, all kids have had some kind of accident at one time or another. We work very hard to teach him what he needs to know and I am a little insulted that someone would suggest otherwise. Thanks for your kind advice.

 

[Pembo]

My friend has taught pre-k, 3 yo, for 20 years and an occasional accident is okay but the teachers are prohibited by Ohio state law to assist with anything! She would have to call the parent to come take care of any messes. If they could just change clothes, they would have to be able to do it themselves.

She also has said that very rarely do kids have poop accidents. Maybe he needs to attend a preschool in a daycare facility that is allowed to help with potty issues. Different laws for daycares here in Ohio.

Remember, the teacher only has your word that he is potty trained to go by and his accidents suggest otherwise. I would bet that she has had kids in the past that the parents have said they were trained when they really were not. Don't be offended just look at it from the school and the law point of view as well.

 

[Pinnie]

OP, like everyone has said, it is a licensing issue. Pre-Ks and day cares have different rules for staffing a room. There has to be a higher ratio of staff to children in a non toilet trained room.(1/4) In a pre-k room the staffing is only 2/16.

Rules about water temperature, changing areas far away from where snacks are served are also evident.

While I am sorry this is happening to your grandson, it is in the best interest of the other students and staff that he be removed until he is totally toilet tranined. Two BM "accidents" in a short period of time is evidence of a child who is not toilet trained, but rather schedule trained.

pinnie

 

[lovemygoofy]

Everyone seems to think that we have not trained this kid and/or we are trying to have the school train him - this is absolutely not so. The kid had an accident, plain and simple. If every kid who had an accident in preK had to be taken out of school, there would be very few kids left, all kids have had some kind of accident at one time or another. We work very hard to teach him what he needs to know and I am a little insulted that someone would suggest otherwise. Thanks for your kind advice.

I don't think anyone is trying to suggest that you aren't working with him. It's trying to be explained that as a licensed preschool, these teachers by law cannot have any hands on with a child that has had an accident. I think one accident is different than you yourself stating that there have been two accidents in 3 weeks. Unfournately I'm sure that means possibly in the school's eyes that your child isn't potty trained all the way.

I know that here the children have to be completely potty trained and if accidents occur a parent has to come and clean the child up and change the clothing. If 3 accidents occur in a quarter the child is dismissed from pre school or the after school care. These rules are not aimed to make the children or parents feel less, it's for health reasons plain and simple.

 

[WDWAurora]

I know that he probably is able to maintain control when he is with you and his mother, but the school has to have limits on how much they will accept, and I guess they've hit theirs, or they are close to it. As another poster said, BM accidents are RARE, so that probably kind of adds to the urgency on the school's side.

I'm glad another poster mentioned the ratios. They do vary by state, but if a teacher has to leave the room to change a child's clothes, they ruin the ratio, and again can lose their license. These classrooms CAN be shut down by the daycare licensure folks!

 

[Minnie_me]

Another pre-K teacher here. I do not work in a daycare center; it is a Universal Pre-Kindergarten program in our elementary school building. ALL children MUST BE toilet-trained. Not "in the process" of toilet training.

I have a Master's Degree in Early Childhood Education. I have a full Language Arts curriculum and a full Math curriculum that I am mandated to follow, and have only 2 1/2 hours to do so.

Obviously, an occasional potty accident will happen. The child then needs to go to the Nurse's office. She is not allowed to wipe the child's bottom (and neither am I -- State Law). See my tag. He has to manage as best as he can on his own.

Maybe this child needs a solid weekend (or longer) of potty training boot camp. I always have parents on the first day of school ask me if I'll help with bathroom issues. The answer is NO. (see my tag again) I advise getting a box of flushable wipes and a sticker chart and working on it at home.

Daycare centers expect and handle potty accidents. Pre-K is not daycare.

 

[barkley]

Everyone seems to think that we have not trained this kid and/or we are trying to have the school train him - this is absolutely not so. The kid had an accident, plain and simple. If every kid who had an accident in preK had to be taken out of school, there would be very few kids left, all kids have had some kind of accident at one time or another. We work very hard to teach him what he needs to know and I am a little insulted that someone would suggest otherwise. Thanks for your kind advice.

i sympathize with you-it is frustrating, but please understand that the laws are very specific and strict regarding these issues. i worked (at different times) as both a pre-k teacher and a teacher in a "daycare" teaching almost identical curriculums, working with kids of almost identical ages. by virtue of one setting being a lic. daycare and the other a pre-k class i was subject to and held accountable for entirely different laws pertaining to kids and potty issues. in the daycare we had more flexibility to work with kids who were not quite 'there' or just having accidents because of the newness of their enviornment, in the pre-k the kids had to be totaly there and while one accident could be overlooked (but had to documented and reported to our supervisor-esp if it was a b.m.) subsequent accidents required to have the parent withdraw the student because we absolutly could'nt (per the laws were subject to) have children who were not observable (read-absent of more than one accident over a long period of time) fully potty trained.

someone earlier posted about their child attending a pre-k that allowed for the kids to have a stash of pull up's-i can't speak for the state or county regulations where her child attended, but in the state my kids attended and i earlier taught, had a lic. rep come in and discovered (they did unannounced spot inspections) pull-ups were being permitted due to a pre-k's (actualy any preschooler over the age of 3.5 and not in an infant/toddler designated center or school setting) repeated accidents or absence of being fully potty trained-they would be cited and instructed to remove the users immediatly from the rolls.

 

[EveDallas]

Everyone seems to think that we have not trained this kid and/or we are trying to have the school train him - this is absolutely not so. The kid had an accident, plain and simple. If every kid who had an accident in preK had to be taken out of school, there would be very few kids left, all kids have had some kind of accident at one time or another. We work very hard to teach him what he needs to know and I am a little insulted that someone would suggest otherwise. Thanks for your kind advice.

You seem to be very upset that people are not responding the way you would like. Perhaps you shouldn't ask for advice if you don't want people to disagree with you. JMO...........

 

[arminnie]

Two BM "accidents" in a short period of time is evidence of a child who is not toilet trained.
pinnie

The kid may be very cute and very smart - but he obviously is NOT toilet trained. Sorry, no exceptions for cuteness.

 

[Alex2kMommy]

Honestly, yes they can kick a kid out of PreK for not being potty trained.

When my DS was that age he had surgery on his thumb. I told the teacher he might need some help getting his pants up and down while his thumb/hand were still wrapped. She said the teachers aren't allowed to help with bathroom issues - they have to call an administrator to come down and assist the child. Luckily the office was very understanding and they didn't mind helping DS.
The regulations for things like that are very clear, and the school would be risking their license if they didn't follow the rules. If there is just one teacher in the classroom then she really can't stop teaching to clean up potty accidents. Good luck!

In my state, daycare/preschool providers have different licensing and staff training requirements for those who must deal with potty issues.

In the Montessori school/daycare my older son attended, when he had a potty accident at age 3, he was sent to the "toddler class" where the staff was licensed to clean him up and deal with the waste. Or when he was mostly trained and had an accident, he needed to handle the clean-up and re-dressing himself. In the preschool my younger son currently attends, they don't have staff licensed to handle potty-training issues, so if the child can't handle the clean-up, they will call the parents, they have no choice. I happen to live close by, and my son uses the potty but still has accidents, but he's only there a couple hours a day, so I've never been called.

I would suggest that your daughter contact the teacher/principal and find out what their policy is. Our current school was willing to take my son knowing he was still training, and said they'd work with him. (They haven't really worked with him on it, but again, he's only there a few hours a day.) Perhaps your daughter could work something out with the school so the boy could stay; otherwise I'd look for a school with a more realistic policy, because preschool age kids WILL have accidents.

 

[Ilovemylife]

Everyone seems to think that we have not trained this kid and/or we are trying to have the school train him - this is absolutely not so. The kid had an accident, plain and simple. If every kid who had an accident in preK had to be taken out of school, there would be very few kids left, all kids have had some kind of accident at one time or another. We work very hard to teach him what he needs to know and I am a little insulted that someone would suggest otherwise. Thanks for your kind advice.

Exactly how involved are you with your GS's life? Do they live with you??

Because I'm seeing a whole of "we's" in that sentence, instead of "my DD and SIL".

And IMO, he isn't ready for preschool yet. Wait a year...it won't hurt him.

 

[IWISHFORDISNEY]

Kids in my sons pre-k have accidents, the teacher tells the mom when we pick them up. I dont know what the rules are but my teacher changes the kids. Maybe try another school (we are in private school). I used a book called potty train your child in a day and they had a section about accidents due to stressful situations. I gave the book away but it may be a help. Good Luck.

 

[TomLovesBecky]

I need some advice. My GS3.5 started PreK in September. He is doing well with potty training, but has had two small BM accidents while at school. Everything else at school seems to be going well - this is his first time away from home, no daycare, etc. and he is riding the bus and getting better at his listening skills, etc. Now the teacher has sent my daughter a "threatening" message saying she will have to speak to the principal about this. What happened to positive reinforcement and encouragement?? We are trying very hard to help him get this and the pressure on her is not going to help him at all. Can they kick a kid out of preK for this??? It is in a public school, but my daughter has to pay for it. Help!!!!!!!!

Yes they can kick him out. The teacher does not have time to toilet train as she is responsible for 20-30 other kids all day. Yes positive reinforcement is ideal but they can't teach kids everything, they just don't have time.

 

[java]

The kid had an accident, plain and simple. If every kid who had an accident in preK had to be taken out of school, there would be very few kids left, all kids have had some kind of accident at one time or another. We work very hard to teach him what he needs to know and I am a little insulted that someone would suggest otherwise. Thanks for your kind advice.

One time- accident. Two times in 9 classroom days? that would make it more of a habit. Sorry. And I am sure your daughter is working on it with him. But you keep ignoring the licensing issues that are being told to you. It isn't about an accident and YES kids in my son's school have gotten booted out if they have a pooping accident. Just give him the time to master it. I have 4 children and they were all trained before heading off to preschool. It was the rule and I followed it.
Rules are rules. Sorry that it isn't what you obviously want to hear but understand that there are serious laws out there that are mandating what the school can and can not do. It isn't because they WANT to kick him out. It is because if they don't they can lose their license.

 

[Mkrop]

I would not panic or get mad at the school, these things happen. Kids all develop differently, they have their rules, if this happened to my kid, yes I would be upset but I would work with him at home and sign him up for some art or sports classes at the local Y to get them socialized.

Our private preschool gave them all a year in the 2 1/2 program to get it together, then when they enterted the 3class, they HAD to be potty trained, no exceptions, they did have us provide clothes but only for spills and such. I kow I panicked the one day that DS came out in a different outfit, but eh did not have a potty accident, he spilled his water at snack all over himself, he was drenched.