Potty accidents and PreK

[famofsix]

Op I have been in the shoes of the UPK teacher, the daycare teacher, the mom shoes and a caregivers shoes. I don't think the communication from the teacher through writing was appropriate as I would have wanted a verbal conversation about it.

However, there are many times when I was told by a parent that a child was trained and they were not independent enough for preschool despite what the parent told me. In your case, he may have had an accident a couple of times at school. Maybe at home he uses mom or your cues to toilet train. He may seem independent but if he doesn't have encouragement to go at school maybe he doesn't. That is perhaps the issue. If it is then the school has to abide to the policy. You said orginally he was doing well with potty training. This leads me to believe he has occasional accidents at home otherwise I would think you would have said he was totally trained. I could be misreading that though.

It is my experience that BM accidents happen if a child is ill. Accidents at school are usually wetting due to nervousness or failure to stop an activity to go to the bathroom.

A child that is not properly toilet trained is developmentally not ready for Pre-K despite how bright and sweet the child appears. The exception to this would be a documented medical reason or special need (which I don't see applies here).

 

[justhat]

In response to your initial question, yes I think they can kick a kid out of prek for potty accidents. In my kids preschool, you can't move up to the 3yo class unless you are fully potty trained. The school starts at 18 months, so if you start in that toddler class (where diapers are allowed) and aren't trained by 3yo, you don't move up to the next class. If you enter at the 3yo level, they won't accept you if you're not potty trained fully. Each kid has to keep a full set of clothes on hand, but my daughter's teacher specified this is for spills.

Now, to say there are no accidents would be a lie. The class my daughter is in 3-5yos, but some kids start the year at 2.9yo. Some of those 2.9-3yos have accidents in the beginning of the year. Most likely because the bathroom is not in the classroom so not only do they have to remember to go, but they have to ask the teacher, then go down the hall to the bathroom, do their business on their own, and go back to the classroom. There is a hall monitor who walks the kids and watches to be sure they flush/wash hands/etc., but she can't help them at all.

BUT, one thing the teacher did for the first 2 weeks of school was to send the new kids to the bathroom every hour. Those 2 weeks were 100% accident free. Then the 3rd week they stopped sending them every hour and let the kids tell them when they had to go. They had 2 accidents the first day, but none after that (so far...).

Maybe suggest to the teacher to send him to the bathroom every hour for a week or 2 and then see how that works?

Another thing, my son is fully potty trained, but his first week back at school this year he had 2 poop accidents. That was really shocking as he hasn't really had a poop accident since he was trained. Anyway, it happened at 11am on the playground 2 days in a row. His teacher just sent him in to the bathroom at 10:55 on the 3rd day and that was the end of the accidents for him. She did send him into the bathroom for about 3 days or so, and now he's fine on his own.

So I would ask if your GS's accidents were at a certain time and then maybe the teacher can send him to the bathroom just before then to avoid the problem. That wouldn't really take much away from the class overall, and it would potentially cut off the problem before it occurs.

 

[C.Ann]

Fully potty trained or no preK here - no exceptions..

While it's not uncommon for a child to have a "wetting" accident once in a while, soiling accidents are extremely rare - unless the child is suffering from an intestinal virus or something of that sort.. Otherwise it's considered "not potty trained" - due to lack of control and/or desire to use the facilities that are available..

Just this past summer I watched in amazement as someone up here tried to potty train their 4 year old twins - in late August - to begin preK the first week of September.. No wetting accidents, but soiling accidents were hit or miss - depending on if the twins wanted to use the bathroom or not..

From what I've heard, they lasted a week and a half before the preK informed the parents that the twins had to leave and open up two spots for other children who were fully potty trained..

Academically, it doesn't sound as though your GS would be missing out on anything if he waited another year - until he's fully potty trained (ie: can control the need to go until he reaches the bathroom rather than soiling his clothes).. Socially there are other avenues you could explore: play dates; story hour at the local library; playing in the park or neighborhood with other children; etc.

As others have stated, there are laws regarding soiling - it creates a health risk to the other children in the class as well as the employees.. The teacher, principal, and school are not being "mean" and singling out your GS.. They are simply enforcing the law - and the same rules that 99% of preK's in this country have..

Sorry.. As I said, search out some other alternatives for this year.. Hopefully by next year it will no longer be an issue..

 

[<3WDW]

Everyone seems to think that we have not trained this kid and/or we are trying to have the school train him - this is absolutely not so. The kid had an accident, plain and simple. If every kid who had an accident in preK had to be taken out of school, there would be very few kids left, all kids have had some kind of accident at one time or another. We work very hard to teach him what he needs to know and I am a little insulted that someone would suggest otherwise. Thanks for your kind advice.

I'm sorry you feel like no one understands. You've heard from a lot of folks who work at a preschool and I'm another. Yes, occasionally there are accidents. We started school the first week in September and we've had 3 so far, out of 120 kids. One was a child who developed "the runs". So no, there would not be "few kids left" if everyone who had an accident was taken out. We did not threaten to kick anyone out because we have not had repeats at all. All kids to carry a change of clothes.

We turned several people away (before school started) because all our kids 3 and up must be fully trained and independent. Those are the rules and we don't make exceptions. Sounds harsh, I know, but the rules are there for a reason.

Take him out for another year and enjoy having that extra time with him. He'll be fine!

 

[torinsmom]

I teach PreK/K in NC public schools and all children are required to be fully potty trained when they enter the school. We don't have changing facilities and it is a matter of sanitation. We also are not allowed to wipe or help children clean up their "accidents". And actually, unless it is diarrhea, it's kind of hard for me to accept a child pooping in his pants as an "accident". Sorry if this is crude, but when you have a normal BM, you KNOW you are having a BM. Even a 2 year old has to really do some pushing to get the business done. If the BM was such that it could all be dumped into the toilet, that implies that the child is in the habit of pooping in his pants, IMHO.

And, as bad as this may sound to some, I didn't become a teacher to clean up after children in the bathroom. I became a teacher to help children learn.

OP--I would advise your daughter to find a preschool that does not require the child to be fully potty trained. I'm sure your grandchild will be just as happy there, and it will be less stressful for all concerned.

Marsha

 

[famofsix]

I'm sorry you feel like no one understands. You've heard from a lot of folks who work at a preschool and I'm another. Yes, occasionally there are accidents. We started school the first week in September and we've had 3 so far, out of 120 kids. One was a child who developed "the runs". So no, there would not be "few kids left" if everyone who had an accident was taken out. We did not threaten to kick anyone out because we have not had repeats at all. All kids to carry a change of clothes.

We turned several people away (before school started) because all our kids 3 and up must be fully trained and independent. Those are the rules and we don't make exceptions. Sounds harsh, I know, but the rules are there for a reason.

Take him out for another year and enjoy having that extra time with him. He'll be fine!

good advice

 

[Took]

Well, my daughter got a call from the principal's office and he wants to meet with her and the teacher so they can determine whether or not he should be "dismissed" from PreK. She is really upset and can't believe that they would give up on him this quick - after all it's only been 3 weeks.

Also, I don't think it's impossible for a kid who's completely trained - no ifs, ands or buts - to have an accident, no kid is perfect.

Other than this, his behavior, on the bus and in class, has been fine - he goes to school happy and comes home happy. The classroom aide told her husband last week at open house that he was the cutest little boy. So from this past Thursday to today, he is worthy of dismissal.

I think, OP, you're missing the point that many are making that the school isn't out to get your GS or your DD or anything like that. They have health rules, etc, and they have to follow them or lose their license. They really can't "give folks a break." Maybe your GS does need more time. His brightness and talent will not evaporate if he delays Pre-K a bit. I never even went to Pre-K and was an outstanding student.

 

[KAMLEM]

The classroom aide told her husband last week at open house that he was the cutest little boy. So from this past Thursday to today, he is worthy of dismissal.

Being cute has nothing to do with being potty trained. Hopefully everyone here has helped you to understand the issue. It's pretty much out of the teacher's hands, she has to follow the rules. I'm sure it's just a matter of time and he'll be trained and ready to be in school.

 

[aprilvaca04]

They would probably not be making such a big deal if it had been two accidents where he just got wet. Preschools don't really have the staff to take one out of the room for extended periods of time to clean up the mess.

If he was potty trained and this was just from the stress, I'd talk to the teacher about it. But, like the earlier poster said, if he wasn't "really" all the way potty trained your daughter may be out of luck. He's got plenty of time for preschool though.

The issue is that most teachers don't have time to deal with issues like this individually. The teacher may also be a little frustrated if she was told that the child was potty trained and now he is having accidents. It's very different than just wetting.

We also had to supply a set a clothing but I think it was in case kids spilled something on their clothes or sometimes I heard that kids got sick and vomited and needed to change. I don't think the clothes were for potty accidents.

Being cute has nothing to do with being potty trained. Hopefully everyone here has helped you to understand the issue. It's pretty much out of the teacher's hands, she has to follow the rules. I'm sure it's just a matter of time and he'll be trained and ready to be in school.

As a preschool teacher myself I totally agree with all of the above...we too have a lot of cute kids at our school but it would not be fair or safe for the all the other cute children for us to have to be dealing with this issue. Besides it can also be very embarrasing for the child when this happens, no matter how private you try to keep the issue atleast one other child notices what is going on and feels the need to ask questions , talk about it, simply make an observation etc. It just becomes very disruptive for all.

 

[Lizzybear]

I've worked in a lot of different childcare type settings (I sub through an agency) and in my experience the places that have the 'must be potty trained' policies tend to not have enough staff to deal with accidents. I know for pre-school classes the ratio is often 1:8 so there might only be 2 members of staff in a room and being over ratio even for just a few minutes is a no-no, if something happened to a child in that time the setting could face issues with insurance etc.

 

[mjkacmom]

My kids all went to private pre-K (no public), and they had to be 100% trained (like 100% trained for the past 6 months). They would have to ask to use the bathroom - no scheduled breaks - and had to do everything themselves. To be honest, yes, most of my kids had an accident or 2 over the 2 - 3 YEARS they were in preschool, but neve poop, which is rare for potty trained children.

Yes, kids got the boot for not being 100% trained.

 

[kpm76]

I don't have first hand experience with this yet since our DD is only 16 months old but I think everyone is correct when they say that it's a legal issue etc. It sounds like your grandson is thriving in the environment that he is currently in, which I assume is home. I would leave well enough alone right now and continue to work with him as you have been doing. As for social interaction with peers, I am a SAHM so I work at getting DD involved, even now at a young age. We do music classes, gym classes, library and bookstore story hours, the zoo with play groups etc. Honestly, at 3.5 he does not need pre-K right now. Sounds like you are mainly concerned about the social aspect and there are plenty of other opportunities. I would take him out of the school and keep him home

 

[cabanafrau]

Other than this, his behavior, on the bus and in class, has been fine - he goes to school happy and comes home happy. The classroom aide told her husband last week at open house that he was the cutest little boy. So from this past Thursday to today, he is worthy of dismissal.[/QUOTE]


Something that I don't think you've understood either from the school or the other posters is that they're not saying he's not a cute and wonderful boy. I'm sure he is & I think both yourself & likely your daughter are feeling the school is attacking him in a sense. Step back, take a few breaths and I think you'll realize the situation amounts to health & safety issues and the fact your grandson just might need a little more time to be ready for this.

Believe it or not, I think eventually this might turn into one of those classically hilarious Thanksgiving dinner family stories you'll all be hooting about when he's got half a dozen piercings, a couple real doozies of tattoos, or just really bad taste in hair cuts, girl friends & the rebellious attitude to end all rebellious attitudes.

Give it some time, it's not the end of the world.

 

[sdarwkcabemanmy]

Wow.
I guess I should be glad DS goes to a special ed preschool. Last year, when he was 3.5 and he started PreK he was *mostly* pottytrained. He did fine at home but it was not uncommon for him to have an accident at least once a week at the beginning of the year. The teachers even requested a stack of pull ups or extra underwear,w hich I happily provided for him. They cleaned him up and went about their buisness, no matter if it was a poop or a pee accident (although if it looked like diarrhea they had to send him home, which I didn't mind. Diarrhea can spread fast in that kind of setting I know). By the end of the year, he was fully pottytrained at school. We've only had one incident so far this year when he forgot to ask and he was so embarrassed he hasn't done it again.

 

[Disneyadore]

I just wonder if "potty training" fore a 3,5 year old just a laziness by his parents???

If there where no Pampers and you had to wash all his diapers I think all kids would have been potty trained before they even got two years old.

It seems to be quit comfortable just to do noting yourself except buying Pampers and put the problem on the teachers plate.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I just wonder if "potty training" fore a 3,5 year old just a laziness by his parents???

If there where no Pampers and you had to wash all his diapers I think all kids would have been potty trained before they even got two years old.

It seems to be quit comfortable just to do noting yourself except buying Pampers and put the problem on the teachers plate.

 

[mytwotinks]

I just wonder if "potty training" fore a 3,5 year old just a laziness by his parents???

If there where no Pampers and you had to wash all his diapers I think all kids would have been potty trained before they even got two years old.

It seems to be quit comfortable just to do noting yourself except buying Pampers and put the problem on the teachers plate.

No one here has suggested that this is was the poster and her daughter are doing. Kids don't always potty train right at two. I've talked to many women from my mom's generation (the generation that thought all kids could be potty trained by two!) and most of them admit that they were the ones potty trained, not their kids. They just had to spend most of their days taking their toddlers potty to avoid accidents.

Today, that wouldn't be considered potty trained. A child is fully potty trained when they are the ones initiating the process. Op's grandson is almost there if not all the way. He is clearly just not quite ready, either because of the stress or because he just needs a little time. I don't see anything that she posted that shows she is expecting the school to potty train.

 

[Disneyadore]

No one here has suggested that this is was the poster and her daughter are doing. Kids don't always potty train right at two. I've talked to many women from my mom's generation (the generation that thought all kids could be potty trained by two!) and most of them admit that they were the ones potty trained, not their kids. They just had to spend most of their days taking their toddlers potty to avoid accidents.

Today, that wouldn't be considered potty trained. A child is fully potty trained when they are the ones initiating the process. Op's grandson is almost there if not all the way. He is clearly just not quite ready, either because of the stress or because he just needs a little time. I don't see anything that she posted that shows she is expecting the school to potty train.

Seems I'm from the generation that had to wash everything by hand.
First we had the cook the laundry for a night and then my hubby and I had to rub and rinse every piece.

Its just laziness that children are not potty trained from the parents. Pampers are so easy and when the child go's to PreK its the problem of somebody else.
And yes our children were potty trained at the age of two.

And yes they were also cute and " extremely intelligent".

 

[mickeyboat]

Seems I'm from the generation that had to wash everything by hand.
First we had the cook the laundry for a night and then my hubby and I had to rub and rinse every piece.

Its just laziness that children are not potty trained from the parents. Pampers are so easy and when the child go's to PreK its the problem of somebody else.

You are making sweeping generalizations about an entire generation of parents based on a post from a grandmother whose grandson is not fully trained at 3 1/2. Do you work in a child care center? Do you do research on potty training? Troll much?

I am glad we have the "luxury" of not having to push our babies into being potty trained before they are ready. Mytwotinks had a great point.

Denae

 

[Disneyadore]

You are making sweeping generalizations about an entire generation of parents based on a post from a grandmother whose grandson is not fully trained at 3 1/2. Do you work in a child care center? Do you do research on potty training? Troll much?

I am glad we have the "luxury" of not havnig to push our babies into being potty trained before they are ready. Mytwotinks had a great point.

Denae

No I'm a full trained mother,and grandmother with almost 60 years life experience.

Not training a child to use a potty is just laziness.