Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[jade1]

What about the other 10 months a year? And who says food and wine will be so attractive forever? It never changes...just the prices.

"Esp" food and wine.

BLT, BCV, VWL and BWV. CBR would be an add on.

 

[LaidBackDad]

I gotta ask, if they could have charged $300/night for the last 20 years and just needed a walkway to do it, why haven't they? Did they just discover google maps?

That's easy. Because they haven't needed to connect it yet, they were happy with it as a moderate and they were busy building DVC's around MK. The DVC tower changes all of that now. They will not build a DVC that doesn't have easy park access. I'm sure they have know CBR has been underutilized for years; but, building the DVC tower gives them the reason to open it up and raise prices when it is connected. Plus, the timing makes sense now with the expansions at DHS and rumored Epcot face lift after that.

I would also say I understand what you mean about CBR and $300 a night. It's not worth it; but, it's not because the resort is that bad. The current rooms and layout are not up to deluxe standards. The thing is, that has nothing to do with DVC or shouldn't have any effect on people buying points because they won't be staying in those rooms anyways. But, you may be right; if they had built access to the parks and they reclassified CBR as a deluxe resort years ago, I doubt this would even be a discussion. It would be the only deluxe resort without DVC and an obvious choice for a DVC tower.

 

[LaidBackDad]

This...

I also have to point out that there is no way in HELL they are putting a gate in to serve Caribbean.

They have been doing everything possible for 25 year to reduce employees where they can...it's all about longterm commitments.

Epcot - likely in 2 years - will be the least attended park. And the overhead is already huge.

That is NOT because it lacks a boat to Barbados. And a couple hundred dvc units isn't going to change anything.

It's fun to guess...but you have to keep it grounded.

Hey... we agree on something!!! They will likely utilize the IG in whatever way the link CBR. A separate gate is highly unlikely. The idea of an attraction with a Hogwarts type entrance is fun and a cool idea but that seems like a stretch even to me.

 

[OKW Lover]

How about a tram (similar to the parking lot trams) in a dedicated pathway that went from this new development to BW and then over the bridge to IG? There's already a tram turnaround at IG. All that would be needed extra would be a way for the tram to cross BVD and get onto the boardwalk.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

How about a tram (similar to the parking lot trams) in a dedicated pathway that went from this new development to BW and then over the bridge to IG? There's already a tram turnaround at IG. All that would be needed extra would be a way for the tram to cross BVD and get onto the boardwalk.

Ok...I know the actual answer to this one.

A tram wouldn't be allowed to cut the traffic on Buena vista drive...the volume is too high.

So your options are "elevated tramway" - the most feasible, but an eyesore yet unseen...

Or a tunnel under. That's almost impossible for a reasonable budget. And what happens when you dig about 18" in the ground in Florida?

Other than being swarmed by fire ants...the hole fills with water.

 

[dlavender]

That's easy. Because they haven't needed to connect it yet, they were happy with it as a moderate and they were busy building DVC's around MK. The DVC tower changes all of that now. They will not build a DVC that doesn't have easy park access. I'm sure they have know CBR has been underutilized for years; but, building the DVC tower gives them the reason to open it up and raise prices when it is connected. Plus, the timing makes sense now with the expansions at DHS and rumored Epcot face lift after that.

I would also say I understand what you mean about CBR and $300 a night. It's not worth it; but, it's not because the resort is that bad. The current rooms and layout are not up to deluxe standards. The thing is, that has nothing to do with DVC or shouldn't have any effect on people buying points because they won't be staying in those rooms anyways. But, you may be right; if they had built access to the parks and they reclassified CBR as a deluxe resort years ago, I doubt this would even be a discussion. It would be the only deluxe resort without DVC and an obvious choice for a DVC tower.

It just seems that everyone thinks adding the park access elevates the property substantially. That if park access existed, they could charge more for the rooms. Let's say they could charge an extra $20/night. That means they have been leaving approx 14.5 million dollars in revenue per year in the wind for 20 years. So 300 million just sitting there? And all they had to do was build a path? No one realized until now that they built it right by EPCOT? Like yesterday when driving home someone said, so that's why that big silver ball looked so familiar..... I'm just not buying it.

 

[LaidBackDad]

It just seems that everyone thinks adding the park access elevates the property substantially. That if park access existed, they could charge more for the rooms. Let's say they could charge an extra $20/night. That means they have been leaving approx 14.5 million dollars in revenue per year in the wind for 20 years. So 300 million just sitting there? And all they had to do was build a path? No one realized until now that they built it right by EPCOT? Like yesterday when driving home someone said, so that's why that big silver ball looked so familiar..... I'm just not buying it.

... OK, you realize by that logic if they never give CBR easy access they will blowing $300M in the wind over the next 20 years and that's not accounting for lost revenue from the DVC tower. As I said before, it's not whether or not they can afford to do it, it's that they can't afford not to do it. I agree the monorail resorts are pretty nice but the only reason they get the outrageous prices they do is because of there location and access to MK. You can't discount how valuable location and access is

 

[LaidBackDad]

How about a tram (similar to the parking lot trams) in a dedicated pathway that went from this new development to BW and then over the bridge to IG? There's already a tram turnaround at IG. All that would be needed extra would be a way for the tram to cross BVD and get onto the boardwalk.

I don't love the idea but that may be the answer. I'm pretty sure I have seen other bridges on WDW property and they haven't been massive eyesores. Maybe they could plant flowers on the bridge to make it prettier or something .

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's easy. Because they haven't needed to connect it yet, they were happy with it as a moderate and they were busy building DVC's around MK. The DVC tower changes all of that now. They will not build a DVC that doesn't have easy park access. I'm sure they have know CBR has been underutilized for years; but, building the DVC tower gives them the reason to open it up and raise prices when it is connected. Plus, the timing makes sense now with the expansions at DHS and rumored Epcot face lift after that.

I would also say I understand what you mean about CBR and $300 a night. It's not worth it; but, it's not because the resort is that bad. The current rooms and layout are not up to deluxe standards. The thing is, that has nothing to do with DVC or shouldn't have any effect on people buying points because they won't be staying in those rooms anyways. But, you may be right; if they had built access to the parks and they reclassified CBR as a deluxe resort years ago, I doubt this would even be a discussion. It would be the only deluxe resort without DVC and an obvious choice for a DVC tower.

There was absolutely never any intention of connecting Caribbean with Epcot...none.

This is the first time anyone has ever suggested it.

Let's not rewrite history...it wasn't like somebody said...let's put it on the other side of buena vista from the service side of Epcot...and a mile and a half from studios (built the same time)...we'll just tie it in later...no biggie.

Remember October 1988 had two key events that explain why I'm not buying any of this:

Caribbean opened on 10/1...the grand on 10/31.

The minute grand opened...the rates at the poly and contemporary jumped by about a factor of 2...and the disney inn...was joined by Caribbean at the lower price point.

Hence the start of the class system. It was planned and executed...not just randomness.

They identified the potential of different prices based on amentities. It's a good system that got better with all stars. But there is a rigid return on investment. If deluxes are meant to be "magical"...the other qualities are "magic lite"

Does anyone here not think it so? It's just matter of a path and Caribbean goes to Boardwalk price quality?

LBD, i get you like Caribbean and I see no problem with that.

But you're incorrect in your repeated "all it needs is this". That's not in the cards.

Not only does Disney know that...their customers do. It's a bridge too far.

Apples and oranges.

That doesn't mean I don't think they'll not put a block there to try and suck money out of it...not saying it won't be full price....but that's doesn't mean It can "become" deluxe. She doesn't have the bones for it.

And the fact that people pay $250 for moderates doesn't indicate that they are "missing potential"...it means that they are over the ceiling already and many are booking due to lack of options...thats not a model to bank on.

It is what it is...it's not gonna be much more.

 

[jade1]

I don't love the idea but that may be the answer. I'm pretty sure I have seen other bridges on WDW property and they haven't been massive eyesores. Maybe they could plant flowers on the bridge to make it prettier or something .

Pretty sure the bridge from BW to EPCOT was built and used for trams.

Over a road is different though.

 

[dlavender]

... OK, you realize by that logic if they never give CBR easy access they will blowing $300M in the wind over the next 20 years and that's not accounting for lost revenue from the DVC tower. As I said before, it's not whether or not they can afford to do it, it's that they can't afford not to do it. I agree the monorail resorts are pretty nice but the only reason they get the outrageous prices they do is because of there location and access to MK. You can't discount how valuable location and access is

That's my point. The place needs way more than a pathway to command that type of money. Or we'd have it

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's my point. The place needs way more than a pathway to command that type of money. Or we'd have it

That's completely the point and to challenge it is kinda silly.

 

[LaidBackDad]

There was absolutely never any intention of connecting Caribbean with Epcot...none.

This is the first time anyone has ever suggested it.

Let's not rewrite history...it wasn't like somebody said...let's put it on the other side of buena vista from the service side of Epcot...and a mile and a half from studios (built the same time)...we'll just tie it in later...no biggie.

Remember October 1988 had two key events that explain why I'm not buying any of this:

Caribbean opened on 10/1...the grand on 10/31.

The minute grand opened...the rates at the poly and contemporary jumped by about a factor of 2...and the disney inn...was joined by Caribbean at the lower price point.

Hence the start of the class system. It was planned and executed...not just randomness.

They identified the potential of different prices based on amentities. It's a good system that got better with all stars. But there is a rigid return on investment. If deluxes are meant to be "magical"...the other qualities are "magic lite"

Does anyone here not think it so? It's just matter of a path and Caribbean goes to Boardwalk price quality?

LBD, i get you like Caribbean and I see no problem with that.

But you're incorrect in your repeated "all it needs is this". That's not in the cards.

Not only does Disney know that...their customers do. It's a bridge too far.

Apples and oranges.

That doesn't mean I don't think they'll not put a block there to try and suck money out of it...not saying it won't be full price....but that's doesn't mean It can "become" deluxe. She doesn't have the bones for it.

And the fact that people pay $250 for moderates doesn't indicate that they are "missing potential"...it means that they are over the ceiling already and many are booking due to lack of options...thats not a model to bank on.

It is what it is...it's not gonna be much more.

I get that you hate CBR. I'm thinking that may be part of the "forest thru the trees" effect you're are having. I don't love it as much as you think; but, I do see the potential for the location. We actually are in agreement on more things than you think, When they built CBR, it was a bit if a whoops. If they had to do it over again they would build it differently. You have previously stated they should just level the place. Do you really believe if they started from scratch with this piece of property they wouldn't try to connect it with Epcot or DHS. Why would you think they would make the same mistakes all over again by building a moderate resort on a piece of property so close to a park. If MDE and magic bands have taught us anything it's that they will spend whatever they need to optimize existing facilities and services. Disney knows the value of this property and its potential. That's why they selected CBR for a DVC. This is their chance to refresh CBR and fix many of the mistakes which you say make it such a horrible resort. It's starting the resort over; but, they aren't just throwing the baby out with the bath water because the resort isn't as bad as you may think.

 

[crazy4wdw]

Pretty sure the bridge from BW to EPCOT was built and used for trams.

Over a road is different though.

Yes, you are correct. Before the Boardwalk was built, there was a tram which stopped at the Swan/Dolphin and then YC. The tram then followed the path around Crescent Lake where the Boardwalk was eventually built to the international gateway entrance to Epcot.

 

[LaidBackDad]

That's my point. The place needs way more than a pathway to command that type of money. Or we'd have it

I'm inclined to agree with you that it's not worth that much. The problem is, at least during certain times of the year (F&W) the place would easily sell out without any problems at $300+ a night with just a pathway added.

 

[Goofy DVC]

First and foremost, great thread. Love all of the different opinions. Time to weigh in. For the record, I'm a DVC member since 93. As a result, my perspective is solely based on my experience rather than looking at plans etc. Disney has been systematically converting deluxe resorts to DVC for one main reason, Disney can't book deluxe rooms at those prices. As a result, they are converting some of their deluxe inventory to DVC to reduce their potential financial risk while locking in long term contracts. However, values and moderates have been booking well. At times, when I look for a room for a last minute trip quite often the only thing available are deluxe resorts at outrageous prices, so I pass. So, why in the world would Disney convert 1 of only 3 moderates to DVC when moderates book well??? I'm not buying it. I think Disney will increase the number of rooms at CBR with some upgrades to make up for some of the lost inventory due to the deluxe conversions to DVC into a category where demand is high.
Also, LOL is right, CBR DVC does not fit with members expectations.
At least it will be fun seeing how it shakes out.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I get that you hate CBR. I'm thinking that may be part of the "forest thru the trees" effect you're are having. I don't love it as much as you think; but, I do see the potential for the location. We actually are in agreement on more things than you think, When they built CBR, it was a bit if a whoops. If they had to do it over again they would build it differently. You have previously stated they should just level the place. Do you really believe if they started from scratch with this piece of property they wouldn't try to connect it with Epcot or DHS. Why would you think they would make the same mistakes all over again by building a moderate resort on a piece of property so close to a park. If MDE and magic bands have taught us anything it's that they will spend whatever they need to optimize existing facilities and services. Disney knows the value of this property and its potential. That's why they selected CBR for a DVC. This is their chance to refresh CBR and fix many of the mistakes which you say make it such a horrible resort. It's starting the resort over; but, they aren't just throwing the baby out with the bath water because the resort isn't as bad as you may think.

I don't care for Caribbean for me...but that doesn't mean I "hate" it. If fits it's role and always has.

I understand it...and I know pretty much everything about it. I didn't read a book...I worked in the management office for a couple years (I don't say these things...so you win the prize)

I think you're an intelligent, witty dude...but your naïveté on the difference in hotels and prices is pretty pronounced her. As is the obsession with the google maps search of the property.

You know...just a simple bridge over western way from the pool at Coronado will get you into animal kingdom. Dvc on deck?

Animal kingdom lodge is even closer...and already deluxe and already dvc...build a rope bridge over the barns and build a tower with views of rivers of light and the dumpsters behind avatar.

I'm not saying they won't put a dvc there and sell it. That's their MO. But this is not because Caribbean has "deluxe" potential. The former doesn't make the latter true. The ambience is way inferior to the majority of visitors and That is why the pricing is what it is.

Caribbean and port are really...REALLY overpriced now. Like a lot..

But it not because they have been "undervalued"...it's because they are overpriced.

I don't want to get into these harsh realities...but there are no "soft" realities to pick here.

 

[Sweettears]

First and foremost, great thread. Love all of the different opinions. Time to weigh in. For the record, I'm a DVC member since 93. As a result, my perspective is solely based on my experience rather than looking at plans etc. Disney has been systematically converting deluxe resorts to DVC for one main reason, Disney can't book deluxe rooms at those prices. As a result, they are converting some of their deluxe inventory to DVC to reduce their potential financial risk while locking in long term contracts. However, values and moderates have been booking well. At times, when I look for a room for a last minute trip quite often the only thing available are deluxe resorts at outrageous prices, so I pass. So, why in the world would Disney convert 1 of only 3 moderates to DVC when moderates book well??? I'm not buying it. I think Disney will increase the number of rooms at CBR with some upgrades to make up for some of the lost inventory due to the deluxe conversions to DVC into a category where demand is high.
Also, LOL is right, CBR DVC does not fit with members expectations.
At least it will be fun seeing how it shakes out.

This is similar to a point I made earlier. We have value, moderate and deluxe. I always stayed deluxe but can't stomach the fare. What would stop them from creating a new category (deluxe lite?) to fill in the gap? They would get me back in a heart beat. As it is now I'm relegated to S/D as I am not a fan of the moderates as the rooms are designed.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And I know exactly what the "forest" is on this and how many trees
Make it up...

You want to discuss contemporary, ft wilderness or all star music?...I'm not gonna venture so many facts thinly veiled as opinions.

 

[Sweettears]

I know Disney made a conscious effort to try to get out of the hotel business but look how well having multiple layers of varying degrees of quality rooms has worked for the Hiltons and Marriotts etc...