Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

Discussion in 'Disney Rumors and News' started by crazy4wdw, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. crazy4wdw

    crazy4wdw Co-Moderator, Restaurant Board Moderator

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    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
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  2. sachilles

    sachilles DVC coming to this space soon

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  4. sachilles

    sachilles DVC coming to this space soon

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    I'm sure it's not practical, but I'd love to see them connect the CBR pond with the canal by the china pavillion in epcot. The distance is not large. You'd still likely have to go to the international gate on the boardwalk side. Unsure if that bridge by china has enough height to clear the boats or not. That is an expansion pad area, correct? Expand it to include a Caribbean nation or something.
     
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  5. skier_pete

    skier_pete DIsney-holics Anon

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    As a DVC owner I find this entirely fascinating as to how this gets handled. Do we get the rumored "moderate DVC"? (There was much discussion of how this could possibly work.) Or do they build a normal "Deluxe" DVC at an existing moderate property providing extra amenities exclusive to the DVC guests. Some suggested (myself included) a lower per point DVC resort could be used to offset the excessively high prices that DVC now charges.

    This IS the most interesting part - the replacement of the Barbados section - this is the closest section to the main entrance to the resort and as such is the closest to Epcot. Some rumors early on said that they were going to connect the new DVC resort through a back entrance to Epcot via canal - though more recent rumors said this was false. Expect those rumors to return now! Either way, a tower building located here could also provide fantastic view of Illuminations on the upper floors. I would not be surprised by this at all - and for it to be a selling point in the future, even if they don't build the "3rd entrance".
     
  6. ColoradoDreamin

    ColoradoDreamin Mouseketeer

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    I believe it was Martin that said that they had wanted to build the canal to connect, but due to many factors that will no longer happen. But he also said that they were discussing another transportation possibility, but he would not elaborate, and the armchair Imagineering began (not by the insider, but other posters). The insider that brought this up about the canal went into a very good explanation of why it couldn't happen, which is why I think it was Martin. But it was 6 months ago, so I can't remember specifics any more (or which thread he spoke about it in).
     
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  7. DanBoris

    DanBoris DIS Veteran

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    There was a lot of speculation that this would happen, but based on these plans it doesn't look like it.
     
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  8. rteetz

    rteetz Rumors and News Moderator Moderator

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    As always thanks for finding this permit!
     
  9. sachilles

    sachilles DVC coming to this space soon

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    I'd like to search out the comments about the canal, can you direct me to where it was discussed, or give me some more nuggets to help me search?

    It would be epic to connect the cbr and pop century water ways to the epcot system. Not sure it would be efficient, but it would be a nice secondary route to the parks.

    A direct walking path is probably more practical for the few that would take advantage of it.
     
  10. rteetz

    rteetz Rumors and News Moderator Moderator

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    You can find some discussion in this thread.

    #1
     
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  11. sachilles

    sachilles DVC coming to this space soon

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    To sum up that thread, it was suggested that a canal would be a health and safety risk, as it would run to close to the fireworks barges. It also indicated that other transportation or connection options to epcot were being explored.
     
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  12. skier_pete

    skier_pete DIsney-holics Anon

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    I think there were also issues with the fact that it would have to cross/go under a pretty major thoroughfare. I thought I would link a picture of the resort. The image below shows the Barbados section is on the left middle of the picture (light blue roofs), with the proximity to the back of Epcot shown on the bottom left. The parking area, large building on the lower left of the property is the "custom house" which is the check-in area for CBR.

    [​IMG]

    It is quite possible they could move the check in for the actual resort to another location, and take this whole area over for a DVC resort. The initial reports mentions "changes planed (sic) for roadways and retention ponds" and the only two retention ponds shown in that vicinity are between custom house and Barbados.

    As I sort of said in my earlier post - the big question here is do they market this as a typical "deluxe" DVC. Without a direct entrance to Epcot, it will be more like the 2nd tier DVC resorts such as SSR and OKW, and the current $170+ per point price tag will be a hard sell unless the cost per night is less than most DVC resorts. A direct entrance to Epcot would suddenly make it prime real estate - and it's not like Disney would be keen to give up that golden goose. In other words, if Disney can find a way to make it work, they will.
     
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  13. sachilles

    sachilles DVC coming to this space soon

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    Would a walking route with an entrance near the african outpost satisfy that requirement? It would be as close as the closest Boardwalk building in terms of distance to the gate.
     
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  14. skier_pete

    skier_pete DIsney-holics Anon

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    I could see that as an option. Or some sort of tramway / peoplemover. The biggest contention would be (a) getting over/under the road and (b) security. I could foresee them doing something like they do on the monorail in Disneyland. You have the security/ticket check at the entrance to the pathway, which is why the idea of some sort of peoplemover would probably work the best to limit access. However, Disney would have to deem the expense of maintaining/staffing such a thing. A walkway may give them a cheaper alternative, but they would still have to staff this entrance. Then comes the question of whether CBR visitors can use it.

    Lots and lots of questions on this whole concept. Won't know the answer for probably at least 2 years.
     
  15. mcd2745

    mcd2745 These Mickey pretzels are making me thirsty!

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    I wonder though...would they want to staff a 3rd Epcot entrance - just for one resort?
     
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  16. jade1

    jade1 I spend half my money on WDW, and waste the rest.

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    Did I pull an old pic here? That EPCOT lot across the road is empty-but I assume deliveries etc.

    Either way its as short as Main Street from CBR entrance to that lot.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. skier_pete

    skier_pete DIsney-holics Anon

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    Right - there's the issue. However, if it sells DVC points, then maybe. Realizing the DVC dues would essentially have to pay for it. Nothing DVC does comes back to the resort, everything after the initial construction is paid by the annual dues. That's the reason the resorts are often piggybacked onto the existing resorts - it reduces the cost of infrastructure. Things such as housekeeping/laundry instead of having to have their own they can share facilities with the resorts. The owners then pay for their portion of the operation. It actually is a win for the resorts too as it likely reduces expenses.

    If a third entrance was for the DVC resort only, it would have to be fully funded by DVC. If they allowed CBR guests to use it, then it would be partly DVC funded, and partly resort funded.

    Disney is in an interesting position with DVC. The last non-monorail resort to go on sale was Animal Kingdom Villas - which opened around $104 a point in 2007. BLT opened at $112 a point in 2009. Between 2009 and 2014 (6 years) DVC prices skyrocketed from $112 to $160 per point (a 43 % increase in 6 years). Put in that time they are primarily selling BLT, VGF and then the Poly, which are extremely desirable locations. (Probably most desirable.) In addition, they make the rooms more expensive (# of points per night) making the costs much, much higher, and of course the profits.

    Even so, the Poly has sold somewhat slower than expected. Not badly, just not as fast as they thought.

    Now they are moving to a less desirable location - Wilderness Lodge. Sure it is fairly easy access to MK, but it's not a monorail resort. Will they lower the price? Unlikely. However, they will likely have to have a lower point per night number, making it less profitable.

    Then we come to CBR. With no entrance to Epcot - CBR is not much different than SSR or OKW or AKV. No direct park access. By 2019 you are likely looking at a $190 per point price point. How do you sell that to people? At the Poly you can say "Look at what you are saving versus a $700 a night hotel room." Building next to CBR, suddenly you are comparing to a $200 per night hotel room? So, do you make the resort cheaper? Or do you add perceived value to the resort in some way to make it better than CBR? This can be done but only in two ways (1) improved amenities or (2) direct access to park. Without these two things - selling this resort will be a quite difficult sell, UNLESS Disney decides to start a new 2nd tier DVC - a complicated decision.

    Sorry to go on so long, but I find this whole thing very fascinating with exactly what's going to happen.
     
  18. rteetz

    rteetz Rumors and News Moderator Moderator

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    You would have to go underground or above ground because you need there is a canal and road in between. The cost is probably the biggest factor. I don't think Disney feels the return is there for a project like that.
     
  19. jade1

    jade1 I spend half my money on WDW, and waste the rest.

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    Mostly wondering if that is a recent lot pic.

    But yea probably right. They will decide. A D Springs type bridge had to be spendy.

    There are still a number of roads walked over yet. Mini Golf from the Swan, POLY for the MK parking lot. Plus then a water bridge. But yea kinda asking for trouble.

    That and I for one would prefer a new attraction or country if that area/lot is available.
     
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  20. Mr. Drauer

    Mr. Drauer Mouseketeer

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    When they put in the application for a permit such as this, it is a modification of the "master permit" issued by the South Florida Water Management District which covers stormwater and wetlands for the entire development (all the property they own). It is not a building permit or anything like that. All of the canals, 'lakes', and ponds are part of the existing permit controlling drainage and stormwater for the entirety of the WDW property, so when a new project proposes additional construction (new roads, new buildings, new parking - anything that is considered new "impervious" area), they have to modify or provide new drainage ponds to treat and store the run-off water from rain events. The Water Management Districts frown on the dredging of new canals or waterways to connect existing waterways as these result in degradation of water quality, not to mention that it would alter the existing master stormwater system that is in place. Disney's drainage system outflows across I-4 and is part of the drainage basin that ultimately flows into the everglades, so it is subject to stringent water quality standards, which they take very seriously. Disney has been able to make some water modifications for some boat use in the past, but those are pretty much only in closed loop areas that do not have a positive outflow from the system.
     
  21. rteetz

    rteetz Rumors and News Moderator Moderator

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    Yes I know.

    My comment was regarding a walk way not changing of canals. A walkway would need to go aboveground or underground. I would assume aboveground would be most cost effective but even then they likely still won't do it.
     

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