Parents, Please Control your Children

[pigletgirl]

It's hard sometimes not to say anything, but I'd let a cast member deal with unruly kids and parents. If my child was being obnoxious, the last thing I'd want is a total stranger to tell me how to parent.

 

[DisDadDVC]

If their decision was to move away, and thereby force the boys to follow without causing a huge unruly scene, I applaud those parents for the way they handled it. Who knows what happened after they left the scene. But at least they didn't have to physically remove the kids and risk kicking and screaming or worse.

What are the odds of that? "When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras".

 

[pigletgirl]

If their decision was to move away, and thereby force the boys to follow without causing a huge unruly scene, I applaud those parents for the way they handled it. Who knows what happened after they left the scene. But at least they didn't have to physically remove the kids and risk kicking and screaming or worse.

Exactly. You have to pick and choose which poor behavior requires intervention. Sometimes removing them entirely solves it immediately. Nothing like yelling to ruin a vacation.

 

[Magpie]

I too, was spanked, and I clearly remember thinking "I hope she stops yelling and gets around to hitting me so I can go back in my room and play."

I'm not telling someone whether or not they should hit their kids - at the moment, within reason, it's legal - but I will say that it is not the cure-all people seem to think it is. As with any sort of discipline, it'll work with some kids, and won't work with others. the threat of being hit never stopped me from doing something I wanted to do, because a spanking was over in a few minutes and I went on with my life. Taking away privileges or some other kind of punishment with lasting consequences worked much better with me. Getting hit? Okay, it'll hurt for a couple minutes. Whatever.

Yep, I remember thinking that, too! I never bothered haranguing the kids either, because I remembered very well how little I actually listened to any of that. I'd just sit there watching her face turn red and her mouth flap away and periodically interject with the most insolent, "Yes, ma'am!" you can can possibly imagine.

Creative consequences, tailored to the crime. Asking the child what they're going to do to make things better. Asking the child to tell ME what they did that was so wrong. Missing out on something fun. Losing a privilege. That sort of thing worked well for my kids.

My guys had to spend one whole summer washing dishes together, side by side, because I was sick of them always bickering with each other. So I told them they could do chores together until they learned to get along. Or, at least, not fight in my presence.

 

[summerw]

Given that Socrates is said to have written this around the 4th century BC:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

I'm going to guess that there was never a golden age of perfectly behaved children.

True, I always think it's funny when people say they didn't grow up with kids behaving like this…

I was talking to DS the other day about why grandpa reacted a certain way to something and mentioned how when he was a kid, kids had "rock fights" and threw rocks at each other if they didn't like something someone else was doing. While I think the sand throwing is totally unacceptable, it's better than rocks. Maybe people could stop acting like parents now are the worst parents the world has ever seen. Keyboard judgement.

 

[gorkt]

"It is not hitting. it is spanking. There is a very real difference."

Yes there is. I understand losing your temper, getting mad and just smacking a child. Is it mature and adult, no, but I understand how it could happen. "Spanking" means that you are looking at your own child, telling them that you are going to physically strike them, but it is because you love them and want them to be better people. How messed up is that?

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Since when does "being a kid" mean they should be allowed to bang on the piano while the guy is playing it, cut in front of somebody who was next to meet a character, harass the performers, throw food in restaurants, throw sand or rocks at other kids, shove people aside, knock people down, take money out of the fountains or displays, play on the chains while waiting in line, swim in the fountains, etc?

Even though "it's Disney," which appears to be seen as a widespread excuse for letting kids get away with stuff they'd probably be corrected for if they were at home.

No, not talking about kids with developmental issues. I bet that most parents with a special needs child would not permit the child to continuously bang on the piano - they'd go get their kid.

 

[summerw]

What are the odds of that? "When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras".

Sorry but I don't get it again. Maybe you're the one thinking zebras. I guess that the OP created this thread, and created it with the title it has puts a slant on it, but I think only the people there can know... unless you are saying the norm (i.e. the horses) is bad parenting. Then that's just sad.

 

[starjazz]

For the record, the announcement that is made at WDW is "Parents, please supervise your children". Controlling them is not mentioned.

 

[DSLRuser]

And if deploying the nuclear option doesn't work, then what?

Spanking didn't scare me one bit as a kid. In fact, during one spanking in particular when I was nine, I remember thinking, "My mother's weak. She's pathetic. She can't actually hurt me. I can do whatever I want, and this is the worst she can do!" (And that one actually gave me welts on my butt, which I pointed out to her with glee - I was a tough kid.)

I didn't spank my kids, or threaten to spank them, because there were always better ways to shape their behaviour. And make them think about what they did and reconsider their actions in the future. We were big on learning to think before you act, and when you do mess up, then make restitution for your misdeeds.

My kids, as adults, still have a healthy fear of disappointing me - or, even worse! - their dad. For some reason, that's FAR more terrifying to them than a spanking ever was to me.

I think your story goes to show that every child is a little different and you can't say you have to do it this way or that way to be effective. I just dont like people saying you cant spank because you are evil and a child abuser.

 

[starjazz]

What are the odds of that? "When you hear hoofbeats, think of horses not zebras".

Its exactly how the OP described what happened. The parents suggested they go somewhere else. Began to walk away, and before the 2 and a half minute song was over, the kids were gone. No screaming, kicking, or other big scene was made. No physicality or controlling parenting involved. Based on the description given, I'd say both the parents and kids are pretty normal people with whom I find little to no fault (given what little info I have).

 

[Angel Ariel]

You may only have to spank your kid one time in their life, but the child will know what comes next if time outs dont correct behavior.

There are discipline options that exist between time outs and spanking a child.

 

[DSLRuser]

But I also wouldn't physically remove my kid kicking and screaming, because I don't believe that it is my job to CONTROL anyone but myself. And I teach my kids the same. If controlling people is your bag, have at it.

But it is your job. When you are the parent. The child's safety may depend on it. Are you going to let little sally walk past a rail and climb on the loading deck of an attraction. If you dont remove her, she may get hurt.

In this case, what if the piano player was finished and was going to close the piano key cover. The child's fingers could have been crushed.

Again, it is a progression, but saying sally come her or sally you will be in time out if you dont stop playing that piano, at some point you have to remove sally.

 

[DSLRuser]

There are discipline options that exist between time outs and spanking a child.

totally agree, hence the 1 or 2 time comment. But who has time to wrote a parenting book

 

[Jennasis]

For the record, the announcement that is made at WDW is "Parents, please supervise your children". Controlling them is not mentioned.

Well, if we are being technical, NO announcement is made at Casey's Corner prior to the piano playing performance. So I guess anything goes eh?

 

[mshanson3121]

I never would allow a child of mine to behave in such a way. There was no correction, guidance or direction from the parents, let alone discipline. The children were allowed to do just whatever they felt like.

So we can assume then that your child has NEVER done anything wrong, because, you would just never allow it?

There was no guidance or direction The parents clearly suggested they move on, and when they didn't immediately comply, they walked away (which therefore prompted the children to follow, and removed them from the situation). Did it cross anyone's mind that THIS was their way of trying to remove the child from the situation, creating the least amount of disturbance to the remaining people?

They were allowed to do whatever. Actually, no they weren't. The parents spoke up and said they should leave.

There was no discipline. Really? Do you know that for a fact? Did you follow them and eavesdrop and hear what they said to their children about their behavior? You have NO knowledge if there was discipline or not. What would you have preferred? They pick them up and carry them away, creating a scene? That they drop their pants and spank them right there? That they step up to a microphone and give the children a public speaking to, so that all the judgmental parents of Disney, know that they did indeed talk to them about their behavior?

 

[MakiraMarlena]

Some of this is sort of reminding me of the family who got thrown off the airplane prior to takeoff because their little snowflake didn't want to sit in her seat and wear a seatbelt, and "we never make her do anything she doesn't want to do."

There's a difference between allowing your kids to let their hair down because they are on vacation, and letting them be disruptive.

 

[summerw]

Since when does "being a kid" mean they should be allowed to bang on the piano while the guy is playing it, cut in front of somebody who was next to meet a character, harass the performers, throw food in restaurants, throw sand or rocks at other kids, shove people aside, knock people down, take money out of the fountains or displays, play on the chains while waiting in line, swim in the fountains, etc?

Even though "it's Disney," which appears to be seen as a widespread excuse for letting kids get away with stuff they'd probably be corrected for if they were at home.

No, not talking about kids with developmental issues.

While I totally agree with your point, and think all of these behaviors should be dealt with immediately, it made me think of something my pediatrician told me when DS was 2 or 3 (and a PP said something like it): "Humans are an aggressive species. It has to be socialized out of us." I've thought about this often since she said it. I believe it's completely true and think some kids are farther along that scale of socialization than others, which may or may not be the fault of the parents.

In general when we talk about bad parenting, I think we need to consider how it truly affects others. Any of the above that physically harm others, cause damage or more work or are morally wrong should be dealt with swiftly and severely, but I wouldn't get worked up over a kid playing on a chain (provided they weren't swing it so it could hit someone) or putting their feet in a fountain. I think that's part of the problem… there needs to be more consideration of the scale of behavior. Wrong and destructive are wrong and destructive anywhere, but the acceptability of touching things that would normally be forbidden is confusing at Disney, for me sometimes, let alone my kid.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

I saw a kid playing on a chain in a line. That chain came detached from the pole, and down she went. Only then did she stop hitting people in the line with the swinging chain. Fortunately she wasn't injured.

Putting your feet in a fountain is different from putting swimsuits on your kids and letting them get in. Nobody's talking about sticking your feet in. The fountains weren't meant for swimming, they are probably not sanitary enough for swimming.

 

[smiths02]

The other day we were at MK, just enjoying the ambiance. Jim was at Coke Corner, looking spiffy as usual playing the white piano. He gave a lovely introduction to Maple Leaf Rag, standing up and giving some of it's history. Then he began playing. Along came 2 boys, about 6 and 7 years old. They went up to the piano, the older boy hanging over it looking and the younger one banging on the keys. Jim continued playing, giving it his best, while the young lad was pounding on the bass keys. Along came the parents and not once did they correct their child. They only suggested moving on to something different. Still the boy banged on the lower notes, and Jim valiantly played on. It was the worst rendition of Maple Leaf Rag you can imagine. The parents moved on, and little Johnny, noticing they were gone, finally left too. Jim finished with a flourish, and smiled. Of course he couldn't say anything about what had happened. I felt bad for him.

I never would allow a child of mine to behave in such a way. There was no correction, guidance or direction from the parents, let alone discipline. The children were allowed to do just whatever they felt like.

To go along with others. Maybe the parents knew this was the best and least intrusive way to get the kid to move on. There was minimal interruption to the performance (less than one song was interrupted), and the family was able to continue their day.

As far as the CM goes. I could see that he didn't want to interrupt his song, but once that song was over, I find it very hard to believe that he couldn't tell the kids to stop touching the platform or get off the piano. I saw kids climbing railings (not in a likely to hurt themselves way, just monkeying around), parents looked tired and just not really noticing, a CM told them to stop...it was no big deal.

And to go along with others...the most obnoxious person I saw was a drunk guy at TTC. I really hope he was leaving the Epcot monorail to board the monorail to Contemporary, Poly or GF...I really hope they wouldn't let him in MK like that. He was loudly remarking about every person, insinuating that the guy with the Mickey sorcerer hat was a loser, swearing, etc.