***OFFICIAL Save the Lost Continent Thread***

[rockbottomsound]

I like that area of the park, but if one of the areas has to be closed to make room for new attractions, then I think that area should be it. It seems like it is the least appealing to guests that are going for the first time.

Ugh? More so than Toon Lagoon or the Marvel Comics area? Not in my opinion, I think the LC is the best themed section of any park in the world. Not that I would like to see them tear down any portion of IOA, but seems to me Marvel or TL should go way before the LC.

And to answer the other persons input, if the suits at Universal would let real creative people make good movies and stop making BS formula, car chase, action, mad man has a nuclear weapon, or cheesy loves story movies, then maybe their movies would be doing better. Not that all of their movies are bad, they do produce good movies too, but for every good movie they produce (Gladiator) seems like they make about 10 Giglis.

"Lets put J-Lo and Ben Afflick in a picture and have them fall in love and blah blah blah yada yada crapola...."

 

[yaytezIOA]

Attendance is not in a freefall. Its just not going up, and it is constantly losing to almost all of the Disney parks, except for Animal Kingdom, which will change due to Everest. However, it has dipped slightly and will continue to dip even more if they do not do something with the parks.....both of them. Destroying popular rides that pull in huge lines, instead of simply rehabbing them is one reason. Not rehabbing any rides at all, cutting costs to eliminate characters, and leaving empty space to rot away is another. Over crowding your parks during key events instead of limiting tickets is yet another. If these things keep up then you will see attendance start to decrease even more. I LOVE Universal....and even I am getting a little bored with it.
While its not wise to mess with a beloved island such as LC, something is needed to boost that attendance, and Harry Potter WILL do it........now keeping diehards like Amity, Robvia and myself happy....yeah.....somehow I think thats going to be near impossible to do.

 

[rockbottomsound]

I'll be the first to say that I think a Harry Potter section is a great idea. It should have its own large section SOMEWHERE, just not at IOA, or by tearing down an existing IOA section.

Would you rip out Pirates of the Caribean or the Haunted Mansion? I don't think so.

I'll be the first to cheer a HP section, just seems like there are a lot of places this could go. For one thing those huge long walks and spaces in the areas between the hotels and the City Walk/Parks sections comes to mind right away. There are a lot of un-used spaces on Uni property they could utilize, they just need to get oh so slightly creative with utilizing their space and not have some knee jerk idea, "oh lets just tear down the best themed section ever created."

 

[damo]

When I look at how many times I have done Poseidan's Fury or Sinbad since opening I realized that I have done Poseidan 4 times and Sinbad once. I think I have been on vacation at universal about 10 times so have probably visited the parks about 40 times. I love these parks and if I don't go on those attractions, that probably means that a lot of people feel the same way.

I don't think Poseidan is IOA's equivalent to Pirates by a long shot. Now if they were going to rip out DD that would be a different story.

 

[MSWint]

Bottom line ... in my opinion ... is that LC would be the easiest and cheapest to "convert" to Potter related. They wouldn't need to change much but for a little themeing.

 

[robvia]

The 2006 figures are not out yet, it's rumored they will be soon.
USF has always been in 6th place. IOA is 7th or 8th depending on DCA.
Do you think the suits really care about a big new ride, when the attendance figures virtually remain the same? No, they don't. That's why they put in some fluff attraction like iVillage, and splash a bunch of billboards along I-4 with the word "New" all over it. USF/IOA/SWF are very lucky they get to sponge off Disney. NBC would rather have a TV show do well.

2005 Park Attendance Figures in Millions
1. Magic Kingdom; 16.1
2. Disney Land; 14.5
3. Epcot; 9.9
4. MGM Studios; 8.6
5. Animal Kingdom; 8.2
6. Universal Studios; 6.1
7. California Adventure; 5.8
8. Islands of Adventure; 5.8
9. Sea World Florida; 5.6
10. Universal Studios Hollywood; 4.7

2004 Park Attendance Figures in Millions
1. Magic Kingdom; 15.1
2. Disney Land; 13.3
3. Epcot; 9.4
4. MGM Studios; 8.2
5. Animal Kingdom; 7.8
6. Universal Studios; 6.7
7. Islands of Adventure; 6.3
8. California Adventure; 5.6
9. Sea World Florida; 5.6
10. Universal Studios Hollywood; 5.0

2003 Park Attendance Figures in Millions
1. Magic Kingdom; 14.0
2. Disney Land; 12.7
3. Epcot; 8.6
4. MGM Studios; 7.9
5. Animal Kingdom; 7.3
6. Universal Studios; 6.9
7. Islands of Adventure; 6.0
8. California Adventure; 5.3
9. Sea World Florida; 5.2
10. Universal Studios Hollywood; 4.6

2002 Park Attendance Figures in Millions
1. Magic Kingdom; 14.0
2. Disney Land; 12.7
3. Epcot; 8.3
4. MGM Studios; 8.0
5. Animal Kingdom; 7.3
6. Universal Studios; 6.9
7. Islands of Adventure; 6.1
8. Universal Studios Hollywood; 5.2
9. Sea World Florida; 5.0
10. California Adventure; 4.7

 

[rockbottomsound]

When I look at how many times I have done Poseidan's Fury or Sinbad since opening I realized that I have done Poseidan 4 times and Sinbad once. I think I have been on vacation at universal about 10 times so have probably visited the parks about 40 times. I love these parks and if I don't go on those attractions, that probably means that a lot of people feel the same way.

I don't think Poseidan is IOA's equivalent to Pirates by a long shot. Now if they were going to rip out DD that would be a different story.

Well I agree about the stunt show, not so much about Fury, but my main concern is that those facades would be changed, changing the INSIDE of the stunt show or even fury I wouldn't have as big of a problem with.

I'm mainly concerned over changing the outside facades of those structures, that is the main thing I would have a problem with. I could certainly live with converting the inside of the stunt show. Never thought the stunt show was that big of a deal. Its the themeing in the area I'm mainly concerned with.

But with that being said, I still see no reason why they couldn't just utilize a lot of space that is totally not in use. I mean the walks from either Portofino, or the Royal Pacific are very long, there are acres in those areas that are nothing but landscaping that seems to me could be utilized. There are spaces behind the old park (in between it and the Hard Rock). For example. I'm sure there are other un-used spaces.

Tearing down anything other than maybe BTTF to me just makes no sense, when they could utilize other space.

 

[macraven]

the sinbad and posideon shows i have seen only a couple of times.
the only reason for that is they cut into my park time for rides.

when i stay 4 nights on site, then i do those two shows. when it is only a 3 night stay and during hhn time period, i don't do those shows.

the wait time to get in, the show itself takes more time out of my day when i am gearing up for the dueling dragon or hulk.........



as for harry potter, i have no idea what it is all about.
never have seen the shows or plan on it.

 

[damo]

as for harry potter, i have no idea what it is all about.
never have seen the shows or plan on it.

In a nutshell, it is all about a kid learning to be a wizard and the obstacles he comes up against. It is very easy to follow even for those who have no idea who or what Harry Potter is. Lots of magic stuff and evil guys.

 

[macraven]

thanx damo

 

[F-L-A]

Attendance is not in a freefall. Its just not going up

It's not going up because it's too busy going down.

 

[Amity 3]

I'll wait a fiscal year and see how adding the blue man group increases attendance. wait a minute, those numbers won't factor in because it's an additional ticket charge. it'll be marketed toward onsite guests.

I don't foresee a huge number of offsite guests renting a car to drive to UO to see the show, they can just use free Disney transportation to Cirque.

Universal needs to make a HUGE announcement soon.

 

[rockbottomsound]

I'll wait a fiscal year and see how adding the blue man group increases attendance. wait a minute, those numbers won't factor in because it's an additional ticket charge. it'll be marketed toward onsite guests.

I don't foresee a huge number of offsite guests renting a car to drive to UO to see the show, they can just use free Disney transportation to Cirque.

Universal needs to make a HUGE announcement soon.

I'm all for adding new attractions. But also seems to me they could make the hotel costs more reasonable instead of 300-350 a night for Portifino and they could rake in more folks. Make it say 180, bring HR and RP down to about 150 and 100 per night or so.

 

[robvia]

Well, let's look at USF in more detail for a second. They added The Mummy in May of 2004 at a cost of 40 million, yet attendance dropped.
2003 - 6.9
2004 - 6.7
2005 - 6.1
The problem with the Mummy is it's marketed as a "Psychological Thrill Ride" and regular folks are actually scared to go on it. If you ask me, they need to turn the marketing around and call it a fun ride so people aren't scared of it.

So why else is attendance at USF dropping if they added The Mummy? It's like the big new thrill ride didn't bring in the big crowds. I'm sure The Mummy keeps attendance from dropping even more, but it didn't give USF the spike they were looking for. That's bad news, because a suit looking at the numbers is going to leave things "as is" and not spend 40 million if it won't bring in tons of people.

 

[rockbottomsound]

Well, let's look at USF in more detail for a second. They added The Mummy in May of 2004 at a cost of 40 million, yet attendance dropped.
2003 - 6.9
2004 - 6.7
2005 - 6.1
The problem with the Mummy is it's marketed as a "Psychological Thrill Ride" and regular folks are actually scared to go on it. If you ask me, they need to turn the marketing around and call it a fun ride so people aren't scared of it.

So why else is attendance at USF dropping if they added The Mummy? It's like the big new thrill ride didn't bring in the big crowds. I'm sure The Mummy keeps attendance from dropping even more, but it didn't give USF the spike they were looking for. That's bad news, because a suit looking at the numbers is going to leave things "as is" and not spend 40 million if it won't bring in tons of people.

Yeah I hear ya, 40 mil seems like a lot for that ride. I mean its a great ride, but not a "super" coaster or anything, short for a coaster, I guess all those animatronics cost mega $$$

 

[damo]

Well, let's look at USF in more detail for a second. They added The Mummy in May of 2004 at a cost of 40 million, yet attendance dropped.
2003 - 6.9
2004 - 6.7
2005 - 6.1
The problem with the Mummy is it's marketed as a "Psychological Thrill Ride" and regular folks are actually scared to go on it. If you ask me, they need to turn the marketing around and call it a fun ride so people aren't scared of it.

So why else is attendance at USF dropping if they added The Mummy? It's like the big new thrill ride didn't bring in the big crowds. I'm sure The Mummy keeps attendance from dropping even more, but it didn't give USF the spike they were looking for. That's bad news, because a suit looking at the numbers is going to leave things "as is" and not spend 40 million if it won't bring in tons of people.

The weird thing about those numbers though is that if you look at the reported 2004 numbers with the percent increase, it states there is an increase from 2003.
That means that the 2003 or 2004 numbers (which apparently are all estimated anyways) are wrong.

The 2003 numbers:
The Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 14 million, flat.
Disneyland, Anaheim, Calif., 12.7 million, flat.
Epcot at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 8.6 million, up 4 percent.
Disney-MGM Studios at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 7.8 million, down 2 percent.
Disney's Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 7.3 million, flat.
Universal Studios at Universal Orlando, 6.8 million, flat.
Islands of Adventure at Universal Orlando, 6 million, flat.
Disney's California Adventures, Anaheim, Calif., 5.3 million, up 13 percent.
SeaWorld Florida, Orlando, Fla., 5.2 million, up 4 percent.
Universal Studios Hollywood, Universal City, Calif., 4.5 million, down 12 percent.


The 2004 numbers according to the internet:
The Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 15.2 million, up 8%.
Disneyland, Anaheim, Calif., 13.4 million, up 5%.
Epcot at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 9.4 million, up 9%.
Disney-MGM Studios at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 8.3 million, up 5%.
Disney's Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 7.8 million, up 7%.
Universal Studios at Universal Orlando, 6.7 million, up 14%.
Islands of Adventure at Universal Orlando, 6.3 million, up 13%.
Disney's California Adventures, Anaheim, Calif., 5.6 million, up 6%.
SeaWorld Florida, Orlando, Fla., 5.6 million, up %.
Universal Studios Hollywood, Universal City, Calif., 5 million, up 8%.


The numbers and the percent changes don't jive for Universal and IOA although they are correct for Disney..

 

[robvia]

Right, even the 2005 number is messed up because it says there was an increase of 8.5% for USF, yet the number went down from 6.7 to 6.1.
So the percentage up/down column is wrong in most cases. Agree, the numbers are estimates, so they'll never be exact, but the order of the top 10 doesn't change much from year to year.

 

[mslclark]

now, if you want to start a petition to reopen fire eaters grill and bring back the gyros, I'll sign it.

Me too! we like the foot long hot dogs there, and we've missed it the last 2 trips!

 

[macraven]

Me too! we like the foot long hot dogs there, and we've missed it the last 2 trips!

i love everything at the fire eaters grill...........

 

[WebmasterPete]

The folks I've been talking to over there all confirm that something major is going to happen - soon, just can't get them to say what - either on or off the record. I think one of Universal's biggest problems is that they tend to tie their attractions FAR too closely to theme's that are destined to be dated after only a few years. A Harry Potter themed section would be a huge draw now, but it won't be 10 years from now - and for these rides to make sense financially, they have to have a long shelf life (look at Tower of Terror for instance). They're still using Earthquake and E.T. For the love of God, Earthquake was a hit in 1974 - those of you twenty-something’s out there - did you even know that was a movie? Have you ever seen it? E.T. is the same - it's cute and all, but that was from 1982! Disney does well in not tying too many of its BIG attractions to its movie properties. They come up with new stories for their attractions themed to the park/sections that they're building them in. Expedition Everest is a classic example - they work off the theme of the AREA, not a film property with limited appeal for a limited time. Universal seemed to learn that lesson well with IoA - I'm hoping they don't screw it up by throwing Harry Potter of all things into the mix. I have nothing against Harry Potter - but I'm pretty sure I'd throw up a little in my mouth if I had to endure an entire "land" themed around it.

Also keep in mind that numbers are down all around town right now. Disney's 'affordable' push (a $1600 lead in rate for a family of four is UNHEARD of for Disney) - and it's because they're having trouble filling their resorts. They're showing profitibility because they raised prices twice last year (not to mention increases in food and souvenier prices), and they draw a lot of visitors from offsite hotels. Universal's attendance issues have less to do with dated attractions, and more to do with Disney's new ticketing system that effectively makes an extra day in their parks about $10, versus the $100+ you pay at Universal.

I've grown so tired of the "universal is dead" comments, that I wrote a fairly lengthy article for the DIS that will go up on Tuesday. Universal is anything but dead - trust me, it's my job to know this stuff, and I'm rarely wrong - Now watch - GE will announce it's selling off everything tomorrow

Pete