Need thoughts on 7 year old 2nd grader behavior problem(long~sorry)

[BuzznBelle'smom]

OP, I would seriously evaluate the behavior you saw at the Scout meeting. Was it similar to what the teachers described? Now, think about what seemed to trigger it--the environment, an interaction with a certain peer, and so forth. What did you do to try to get him back on track? What worked? You might want to start keeping a journal--what he does, what he eats, who he interacts with--to see if you notice a pattern. Do this in conjunction with working with the school and the testers.

And please, please try not to be so defensive. I have a "challenging" son--he turned 15 today. All my gray hairs are named for him. He's had all sorts of medical, develoipmental, and social issues. No diagnosis, though--he's just who he is. I haven't stopped looking for answers, but I accept that there isn't one, pat explanation. But, he still has to grow up and function in society.

 

[torinsmom]

I agree with a PP that you need a daily or weekly behavior report. I do 2 behavior checklists each afternoon. The form is divided into two sections, a.m and p.m and then has the 4-5 behaviors I WANT to see. For example "I listened to my teacher(both classroom and special)" "I used kind words and gentle hands to solve my problems" "I focused and completed my work", things like that. I try to always tell the kids what I want them to do vs. what I don't want to do. I would suggest asking for something daily, so he(and you) can see success right away and/or connect the bad day with the consequence. You need to sit down with the teacher and work together with the behaviors you want to change and decide on consequences both at home and school. Then call him into the conversation. In my class, we have a stoplight charge and misbehavior means you move your clip. Connect the behavior to one privilege at home, preferably one that means the most to him. If he gets 80% of his checks, he keeps the privilege and also gets a sticker on a chart where he can always see it. You whoop and shout and dance and just celebrate. 5 stickers = a treat of some kind, 10 = an evening at chuck e cheese or something like that. If he gets less than 80%, he loses that privilege for that evening and you tell him how disappointed you are, but also reinforce that tomorrow is a new day and you KNOW he can do better. Go over the mistakes and talk about what he could have done instead. After a few weeks of success, amp your expectations up to 90%. This has really worked for my two guys this year.

Also, like a PP said, even if this is connected with a learning disability, just acknowledging there is an LD won't change the behavior. At this point, this is what he knows, and he could care less why he does it. People laugh and that's enough for him. It doesn't mean he's not a caring, charming little boy either. It just means he is having trouble acting appropriate in certain situations.

OP, I hope you don't think I was ever jumping on you. I have a son with ADD, dysgraphia, and a math disability. It's been a hard road, but I have learned to have a thick skin when I hear something about my son that I don't want to hear. I learned to filter the information and focus on the fact that the teachers want the same thing as me---success for my child. He went through the silly phase, the "I can talk during circle time and still listen, so what's the big deal?" phase, the "I'm just going to sit here and refuse to do what this teacher is asking" phase. He is 17 now and a senior and has had no behavior problems at school since 3rd grade. He was also young for his grade, with an August birthday. I think that played a part in things as well.

Good luck to you!

 

[Allison]

Please try to read these teachers' comments objectively, as if they were about any child, not just your own.

I am not getting negativity from their comments. Quite the opposite. They seem thorough and thoughtful, as though the teachers have carefully considered the best way to handle your son and have tried different strategies with him. What they have in common is that both teachers believe he is seeking attention and that it is distracting/disruptive for other students. These teachers have a class of probably 20 young children to teach; they have to find the most effective and expedient way to deal with your son so they can maintain the attention and interest of 19 or so other kids. The strategies they are using are commonly used and are recommended by teaching programs and other education professionals.

These are warm comments. I'm not hearing any negativity. Both teachers sound as though they are trying to handle your son well and do not have any ill will toward him. They do not sound as though they are beating him down.

These are not new issues ("do not believe these issues are just surfacing now" and "behavior continued to be a problem"). Why do you think that is? You mentioned dyslexia but have you considered behavioral issues; e.g., sensory processing issues?

Please take these comments at face value: two teachers who are trying to handle your son's disruptive behavior while teaching the rest of the class. The comments are neutral and objective; not negative. Although you may not like their approach, it is a very professional way to handle a disruptive child.

I agree completely.

 

[Poohforyou]

I really feel your missing the point the teachers are making. Your son isn't a bad kid. He's exibiting inappropriate classroom behavior & it needs to be corrected. The best thing you can do is arrange a conference with all his teachers and come up with a plan that will extension at school & home.

Typically class clowns are kids that are either bored or overwhelmed. Once the underlying issues are addressed the behavior should improve.

 

[TheSchragFamily]

Let me preface this by saying that I in no way think I have an angelic child. I understand he can be difficult at times, but with a little patience, kindness, and love he is a good kid.

Report cards came home on Friday. I had been in contact with his regular teacher. She had been out on maternity leave until January, so she was just getting to know him. She was having issues with him trying to make his friends laugh at inappropriate times, trouble staying on task, etc. We had a conference, removed most privileges at home, and really cracked down. Things had improved.

Not so good words on his report from art and music class of all things. CLass behaviors had improved. I had only very minor behavior issues before this year. I dropped them each a quick email to ask what strategies they were using in their classes to help.

Here is the first response:


Thank you for your email. I appreciate your concerns and your
willingness to help Ben achieve at school. I do not believe that these
issues are just surfacing now, but they are escalating. I am in
contact with his teachers and we are all trying to help Ben control
his behavior and put forth strong effort.

In art class, there is much room for creativity, personal choice, and
socializing/sharing ideas, but Ben's behavior is interfering with
this. He enters the classroom immediately seeking attention (silly
comments, loud noises, banging or rocking his seat) so the first
strategy is to try to ignore it and grab his attention with the
lesson. If Ben's behavior (or anyone else) is disruptive for others
and myself, then I'll either walk his way or mention his name casually
while I'm still introducing the lesson. When I am demonstrating art
methods and techniques at the demonstration/round table, Ben usually
refuses to participate and stays on the other side of the room (or
crawls under the work tables). I encourage him to join us so he knows
what to do and how to do it. This may prompt him or not. When he is at
a work table, his chatter often slows down his work. When there is a
conflict with peers, I'll move someone's seat (so there's no blame -
it's not always one person's fault). However, Ben is usually involved.
I have thought about assigning a seat for him, but I don't want to
single him out that way, and I like the idea of kids working with
different peers. With all of this, I am always encouraging him!

I appreciate your reinforcement of positive behavior with Ben.
Pat

So while I appreciate the comments, it all seems rather negative. I also do not understand what is 'so bad' about giving the kid a little attention if she feels he needs it. I"m not saying to reinforce his negative "attention-seeking behaviors" as she put it. But, if she thinks he needs a little "love" why not? If she spent a few minutes(Maybe 2) early on, it would likely set a positive tone, and change his attitude. He thrives on positive reinforcement, and I am wondering if the negativity is adversely affecting his attitude. Kind of like once you are "the bad kid" it's very hard to get out of that generalization.


ANd, here is the response from his music teacher:

Ben's behavior has continued to be a problem in music class this past term. He is constantly being spoken to in class about his behaviors, and following directions. He sometimes seems to be in his own world, and not paying attention to me, and what is going on in class.
My strategies are to first try and ignore Ben's behaviors, as I assume they are sometimes for attention. When that doesn't work, and he continues to be a distraction I give him reminders about expected behaviors. I try to also point out the role models in the class for him and everyone to follow their behaviors. His peers also try to get him to do the right thing, as he distract them and their learning in class. They also inform me that Ben is not following directions, or doing the right thing. He has even had to sit in my "Take a Rest" chair, similar to a time out, where he will not get to participate in an activity. When this has happened I have pulled Ben aside and talked to him about why he had to sit out, and what it feels like not to participate with his classmates, and how to avoid "taking a rest." Mrs. Oliverio and I are in communication about Ben and his classmates behaviors in music. She is informed at the end of each class.

If you have any suggestions for strategies that work at home, I welcome the suggestions.

Thank you for your time,

Jessica

Again, I feel it's very negative. I understand as a teacher they must love and wish for a quiet class of extremely compliant, folded hands children, that get perfect 100 scores with everything the first time. It makes their job so much easier, but that is not reality. Every child is different, needs different ways of reaching them, and they all have strengths and personalities that need to be nurtured and not constantly beat down.

I am in the process of having him evaluated for learning disabilities as I am confident he has at least mild dyslexia. I have hired a tutor that specializes in dyslexic tutoring and it's going very well. I do think that some of the behaviors stem from the fact that for him, school is hard. He expends quite a bit of mental energy just keeping up, and I imagine it's frustrating when he keeps getting messages from most in his school that he just isn't good enough. Am I even making sense here? I haven't replied back to either specials teacher yet. I have a lot of respect for teachers. I love teachers But, I do think my little guy is getting the shaft.

I have not read any other responses, but here is my take:

Your child's behavior is very inappropriate for SECOND grade. If he were in Kindergarten, I might be more understanding. Your child is a REAL disruption to art and music classes. If you had any idea how hard it is to deal with a classroom of 20-30 kids including even one "Ben" then you wouldn't be complaining that he "is getting the shaft"...

Those comments seemed like they were coming from teachers who want to work with him to improve his behavior, for his sake and theirs (and the other kids'). They seem very professional and I think your son is lucky he doesn't have more punitive teachers who simply label him a troublemaker and make him sit in the principal's office when his behavior is inappropriate.

 

[Allison]

Most of your posts say all the right things and it sounds like you truly want to correct this behavior but most posts have one or two throw away lines that say otherwise.

You asked about your son's behavior and what the teachers were doing to help him. Both teachers wrote very detailed responses telling you exactly what your son was doing and what they are doing to try and correct the behavior. Yet you wanted them to also tell you the positive things he was doing??

I understand this is a very hard thing to take in right now. Nobody wants to hear that their kid is the one that is disrupting the entire class or that their kid is the problem child. I feel for you, I truly do. But please stop making this about the teachers. It sounds like they are doing the best they can. They don't owe you a list of his positive contributions in an email regarding his bad behavior. You asked about his behavior and you received a response. They were very clear, precise, and kind. It is time for you to really take this to the next level and recognize that your son has a behavior issue and you need to get to the bottom of it. Maybe he is being bullied or he has a learning disability or maybe he is just being a brat. What matters is finding out what is causing it and fixing it.

I agree. They responded with thoughtful answers to the question.

Best of luck, OP. I know it has to be hard. Just don't misplace your frustration where it doesn't belong.

 

[islandmum]

The only people getting the shaft are the other children in the class. Stop blaming the teachers and start working with them. Your child needs to learn that disruptive behavior is unacceptable during class.

we've had this scenario with a child doing this in my youngsters class, they dont get enough attention from the teacher whilst she has to spend extra minutes with the "cheeky, disruptive" child, and their learning is being hindered. As a whole every other parent was ready to scream at this kid and his parents for ruining 50% of their childs class learning time.

There is accountability - and it must be admitted.

Parent the child - that includes whilst he's at school, even though you're not there in person he should behave properly.

And if its an ADHD issue then get that addressed.

 

[Shelly888]

Did you assume his behaviors were getting better or did you have a meeting with the teacher to discuss his progress?

Did YOU contact the teacher to ask if his behavior was improving. Or is this the teacher's fault again for not contacting you?

When you have a child with challenges, you learn very quickly that YOU have to be the child's advocate. You can never assume anything. If you want to know if something is effective, YOU need to be the one to be proactive and gather information about your child.

Never, ever assume that no news is good news.

You say you are not making excuses for your child but:

"He is a difficult child, but the teachers are not coddling him enough by giving him more attention" I said he CAN be difficult AT TIMES.
"The teachers are too negative and making him feel like the bad kid"
"The teachers are giving him the shaft"
"He is just being silly, the class clown"
"He has dyslexia" If you have a medical degree, then I will take your comments as they are. If not, then I will listen to the professional opinion of doctors.
"He has language based problems"
"The teachers did not contact me (although you knew he had previous bad behavior and you did not follow up" I would think that if his problems were as bad as they say they are I SHOULD HAVE absolutely known about it.
And the best...
Based on the word of a 7 year old "There are 3 of them and could very likely be a different ring leader" I said I DID not KNOW who was the ring leader. Could be Ben, could be one of his friends.

You need to stop blaming the teachers and accept that no matter what the reason, your child has serious discipline issues.

You need to make an appointment with the teachers and come up with a plan, TOGETHER. Some suggestions are a back and forth book, a sticker program to award positive behavior, and some of the other suggestions others have offered. YOU need to stop blaming the teachers and trust that they know what they are talking about and are not giving your child the shaft.

As for the positive, your e-mail asked for the behaviors he was exhibiting
The teachers were gentle, thorough and very professional in detailing what they are seeing.

I know it is not pleasant to hear your child is having difficulties, but as I said before, you need to take a deep breath, listen to the teachers and come up with a plan TOGETHER as a team.

Yes, I did contact his teacher, and as I already stated, we are in regular contact via email.

We were NOT informed of behaviors outside of his regular class EVER.

I NEVER asked them to describe ANY behavior in their emails. Go back and reread. I asked them to describe what strategies they were implying to ensure success of my son. I never stated I doubted the teachers.

If you have a medical degree, then I will take your comments as they are. If not, then I will listen to the professional opinion of doctors.

I have already stated that I want to work with his teachers as a TEAM...JUST as I HAVE been doing with his core class teacher. I could NOT work with what I didn't know about.

 

[Shelly888]

ITA. My DS had similar behaviours when he started school and when he was too harshly punished his behaviour went right downhill and he went from being a happy confident boy to a stressed miserable child.

For us it took 2.5 years and a teacher who FINALLY figured out the trick for Connor. His first two teachers were lovely people and fantastic with his little sister, but Connor walked all over them. I don't recommend this approach for 99.9% of children, but for Connor what worked was a bit of good natured public humiliation in class - e.g. when tasked with finding words they didn't know in a book, Connor sat around chatting. He told the teacher he already knew all of the words which she followed up with a very public statement to the class, "Class, we don't need our dictionaries today, we have Connor, the human dictionary! What word shall we try first? XXX? Great, Connor, what does XXXX mean? What you don't know? But you're the human dictionary?"

I know that approach sounds humiliating for a 7 year old and no I'm NOT recommending it for your son- my son is very cocky but his internal response was not to get upset. Rather he just thought "hmmm, better not do that again" and that sorted his disruptive behaviour in language for the rest of the term.

I post all that to say, don't get down (I know I did, and stressed which didn't help!). It sounds as though your teachers really want to get on top of it and will work with you. There WILL be methods that will work on your son, possibly conventional or possibly unconventional. It might take a looong time and many many experiments to find what works. I don't think there's a quick fix and some of it may just come with maturity.

You know your first statement really stands out to me, and it's what I have been trying to say(poorly) I must add. I don't think they *have* found what works best for Ben. I think humor can be used as a great tool(as one example)...and he would get it, would likely 'diffuse' the issue at hand, and turn the situation around. Keep things positive, because like your son, he responds with positivity.

 

[Allison]

You know your first statement really stands out to me, and it's what I have been trying to say(poorly) I must add. I don't think they *have* found what works best for Ben. I think humor can be used as a great tool(as one example)...and he would get it, would likely 'diffuse' the issue at hand, and turn the situation around. Keep things positive, because like your son, he responds with positivity.

I see pretty much everything the art teacher is doing as positive.

In art class, there is much room for creativity, personal choice, and
socializing/sharing ideas, but Ben's behavior is interfering with
this. He enters the classroom immediately seeking attention (silly
comments, loud noises, banging or rocking his seat) so the first
strategy is to try to ignore it and grab his attention with the
lesson. If Ben's behavior (or anyone else) is disruptive for others
and myself, then I'll either walk his way or mention his name casually
while I'm still introducing the lesson. When I am demonstrating art
methods and techniques at the demonstration/round table, Ben usually
refuses to participate and stays on the other side of the room (or
crawls under the work tables). I encourage him to join us so he knows
what to do and how to do it. This may prompt him or not. When he is at
a work table, his chatter often slows down his work. When there is a
conflict with peers, I'll move someone's seat (so there's no blame -it's not always one person's fault). However, Ben is usually involved.
I have thought about assigning a seat for him, but I don't want to
single him out that way, and I like the idea of kids working with
different peers. With all of this, I am always encouraging him!

 

[brookmey]

Does your son come home with a daily behavioral chart? For instance, each child in DD's school is given a stamp (great day), a blank space (OK day) or a number (folder mark) that corresponds to an unacceptable behavior on their behavioral chart everyday. That way, when they get home, we can see what kind of day they had. If your son's school doesn't do that, then maybe you can talk to his teacher about creating a daily behavioral plan for him so you are always in the loop and up to date with his behavior.

I really understand what you're going through and your frustrations. My 7 year old daughter is also in 2nd grade and has had behavioral issues at school, too. She is very social and likes to talk and make others laugh, which leads to her being disruptive and distracting in class. She also has issues with self-control and self-regulation.

What DH and I finally realized after many failed attempts in kinder and 1st grade to get her behavior under control was that we were not consistent enough with her on the consequences for getting folder marks. So, this year we worked out a new plan to be more consistent and to improve her behavior. She knows exactly what will happen if she comes home with a folder mark and what will happen if she gets a stamp. We've finally found a nice balance of positive and negative consequences. Since we started this system, her behavior has improved greatly. She went from 1 or 2 folder marks a week to 1 or 2 every 6-8 weeks. That is a major accomplishment for her. She went through February and March with only 1 folder mark.

My reason for saying this is to suggest that maybe you and your husband honestly evaluate what you're doing at home to reinforce acceptable behavior at school. I think it's smart that you're getting your son tested for a LD, but like someone mentioned, what if your son's behavioral issues are not related to a LD? What will you do then? You sound like a loving, caring mom who truly wants her son to be the best he can be. From my experience, I've learned that we need to look at ourselves, too, to figure out what we can improve on to help our kids be the best they can be.

If you're interested to hear about what we did to help DD's behavior (which sound similar to your son's) PM me and I'll share it.

Good luck!

 

[Shelly888]

Does your son come home with a daily behavioral chart? For instance, each child in DD's school is given a stamp (great day), a blank space (OK day) or a number (folder mark) that corresponds to an unacceptable behavior on their behavioral chart everyday. That way, when they get home, we can see what kind of day they had. If your son's school doesn't do that, then maybe you can talk to his teacher about creating a daily behavioral plan for him so you are always in the loop and up to date with his behavior.

I really understand what you're going through and your frustrations. My 7 year old daughter is also in 2nd grade and has had behavioral issues at school, too. She is very social and likes to talk and make others laugh, which leads to her being disruptive and distracting in class. She also has issues with self-control and self-regulation.

What DH and I finally realized after many failed attempts in kinder and 1st grade to get her behavior under control was that we were not consistent enough with her on the consequences for getting folder marks. So, this year we worked out a new plan to be more consistent and to improve her behavior. She knows exactly what will happen if she comes home with a folder mark and what will happen if she gets a stamp. We've finally found a nice balance of positive and negative consequences. Since we started this system, her behavior has improved greatly. She went from 1 or 2 folder marks a week to 1 or 2 every 6-8 weeks. That is a major accomplishment for her. She went through February and March with only 1 folder mark.

My reason for saying this is to suggest that maybe you and your husband honestly evaluate what you're doing at home to reinforce acceptable behavior at school. I think it's smart that you're getting your son tested for a LD, but like someone mentioned, what if your son's behavioral issues are not related to a LD? What will you do then? You sound like a loving, caring mom who truly wants her son to be the best he can be. From my experience, I've learned that we need to look at ourselves, too, to figure out what we can improve on to help our kids be the best they can be.

If you're interested to hear about what we did to help DD's behavior (which sound similar to your son's) PM me and I'll share it.

Good luck!

Thanks for you thoughts. The school does not do anything like that, it sounds like a fantastic idea. Discipline has been inconsistent especially since, even though the problems may have been occurring, we weren't made aware of them. The cause and effect is difficult to get when it's much later.

As far as what to do if it's not related to a LD or if he doesn't have one, I don't see that as an issue at all. We are taking his behavior very seriously NOW, before we even know what is up. I do not excuse his behavior. I expect him to behave properly, and he knows that. To me, it's primarily a way of reaching out to him differently. Maybe what works for every other typically learning child will not work for him. I am not using it as an excuse, but as a tool to figure out what will work better for him.

 

[DopeyDame]

Yes, I did contact his teacher, and as I already stated, we are in regular contact via email.

We were NOT informed of behaviors outside of his regular class EVER.

I have already stated that I want to work with his teachers as a TEAM...JUST as I HAVE been doing with his core class teacher. I could NOT work with what I didn't know about.

But now you know. Regradless of what they should or shouldn't have told you in the past, you now know that his behavior is disruptive and unacceptable in music and art class. So it's time to start worrying about who did what when, and start focusing on how to move forward and how to help your son improve his behavior.

I'm sure it's hard to hear these things about your son, but you really need to stop the defensivness and try to figure out how to move forward. You got the emails on Friday. It's now Tuesday. I hope by now you've set up an appointment to meet with the teachers (and perhaps guidance counselor) in person.

Also, I suspect some of the reason this is "just" coming up now is that he's almost in 3rd grade. The teachers know that the expectations change a lot in 3rd grade. They had hoped he would mature throughout second grade. Now that 2nd is winding down without any improvement (and possibly worsening behavior) they are getting more worried. We've all heard that 3rd grade is when they switch from "learning to read, to reading to learn" but I also think it's where they switch from "learning how to go to school, to going to school to learn." The K and 1st teachers, and to a smaller extend 2nd teachers realize and expect that they will have to spend some time specifically teaching kids how to behave in a classroom setting. The 3rd grade teacher is going to expect that Ben knows how to behave and how to appropriately participate in class. If he doesn't get those skills mastered in the next few months in second grade, 3rd grade is going to be far worse as far as expectations and consequences.

Please stop trying to excuse (or explain) his behavior, stop trying to blame the teachers, stop trying to find reasons why you think this all really isn't a problem or a big deal. What I read in those emails are two very caring, active, attentive teachers who have VERY big concerns for your little boy. Please use them as a proactive resource in YOUR efforts to help Ben succeed.

 

[Scurvy]

Yes, I did contact his teacher, and as I already stated, we are in regular contact via email.

We were NOT informed of behaviors outside of his regular class EVER.

I NEVER asked them to describe ANY behavior in their emails. Go back and reread. I asked them to describe what strategies they were implying to ensure success of my son. I never stated I doubted the teachers.

If you have a medical degree, then I will take your comments as they are. If not, then I will listen to the professional opinion of doctors.

I have already stated that I want to work with his teachers as a TEAM...JUST as I HAVE been doing with his core class teacher. I could NOT work with what I didn't know about.

OP, I understand that you are frustrated and upset about this situation and that is completely understandable. I've read the entire thread and noticed something. I apologize in advance if I am mistaken. I also want to clarify that I am not saying you aren't taking this seriously, but I wonder if at the heart of it you aren't considering some possibilities as seriously as you could simply because of the way you unconsciously feel about the situation. The bolded jumped out at me - it seems to sum up an impression I had of your feelings about all this. It seems to me that you firmly believe that your son's behavior can be explained by a diagnosis of some kind. I suspect it's because you think a child who intentionally behaves badly must be a bad kid, so your child can't be doing it on purpose because he's a good kid. The problem with this thinking is that a child can be a good, loving, giving, sweet child and also be badly behaved in class.

I am not saying that your child's behavior can't be explained by a diagnosis. It's possible that it can. But it is equally possible that he is behaving this way because he wants to. Behaving badly in class or in scouts does not make him a bad child. It just means that he wants whatever he gets out of that behavior (or what he thinks he will get out of that behavior) more than he wants to behave in class. Maybe he enjoys the attention he gets from his peers. Maybe he enjoys the idea of being the funny one. Maybe there is a particular person whose opinion he values more than those of his teachers and the feedback he gets from that person is the reason he continues with this behavior.

I thought the letters from his teachers were thoughtful and helpful. They were answering your question. I wonder if the letters made you defensive because they implied that your son ought to be in control of his actions and that he should conform to the rules of the class, while you feel he can't control himself and so the teachers ought to adapt to him instead. The fact that he said "What, it's funny?" makes me think he chooses to be the class clown. You seem to believe that your child is a good kid who has no choice but to act the way he does. I think that it might be easier for you to work with the teachers to solve this problem if you seriously consider the possibility that your child is a good kid who also enjoys acting out in some situations.

 

[LisaR]

Thanks for you thoughts. The school does not do anything like that, it sounds like a fantastic idea. Discipline has been inconsistent especially since, even though the problems may have been occurring, we weren't made aware of them. The cause and effect is difficult to get when it's much later.

As far as what to do if it's not related to a LD or if he doesn't have one, I don't see that as an issue at all. We are taking his behavior very seriously NOW, before we even know what is up. I do not excuse his behavior. I expect him to behave properly, and he knows that. To me, it's primarily a way of reaching out to him differently. Maybe what works for every other typically learning child will not work for him. I am not using it as an excuse, but as a tool to figure out what will work better for him.

I wish you luck in what you are trying to accomplish but I think it is unrealistic. In his 12 years of schooling, you will be lucky to encounter 2 or 3 teachers who have the time, patience, organization, and fortitude to figure out the things that make Ben tick and how to work with him in his own, unique way. That isn't a dig against teachers. They are swamped with too many other issues and taking 2 minutes three times a day with your child because he needs a different approach isn't realistic. While I believe your original post describing the perfect child with their hands clasp is ridiculously inaccurate and unfair, schools do have a somewhat cookie cutter approach to most issues. If you want two minutes of positive pep talks for Ben when he misbehaves while the other kids get the time-out chair, it won't happen.

 

[Geoff_M]

I don't think they *have* found what works best for Ben.

Again, the primary problem is "they" and not that "he" needs to work on suppressing any inappropriate behaviors.

For the record, I have a wife that is a teacher and a son that has ADD. When our son has "issues" at school, Scouts (I'm a leader), or Church we don't think that the issue is that "they" just didn't handle him properly. And on the other side of the coin, our son knows that if he tries to blame any incidents on his ADD, or "my medicine must have worn off", his argument will be shut down in an instant. He knows that, to us, he is responsible for his behavior, and not other people... or things. He knows that his medication only makes controlling his behavior "easier" for him, but not "impossible" in its absence.

As for the technique that Bonnie151 describes that worked for her son, I shudder to think about the blow-back that would be almost certain against my wife if she tried something like that in her classroom. You should see some of the e-mails that are periodically sent to her administration, as is, from irate parents about how she "humiliated" their son/daughter in front of the rest of the class (once for merely randomly asking a student to answer a question) and accusing her of having a personal grudge against their child. Occasionally, she comes home and admits that she couldn't help herself and she "zinged" a kid in class... and then adds "I shouldn't have said it, and it'll probably come back to bite me" and she when worries over her e-mail in-box for a couple of days.

At times, it's amazing that people stick with teaching nowadays. Honestly.

I'm not sure what you're intent was on starting this thread other than asking near of the end of your original post "Am I even making sense here? " Well surveying the 6+ pages of responses, I think we can say the consensus view here is:
- Your child is exhibiting some very age-inappropriate behaviors that go beyond needing a little more attention.
- It sounds like he's taking instructional time away from other classmates.
- The teachers' notes exhibit a great deal of detail and it seems pretty obvious that they've been working hard on trying to find a way to handle your son... but it's not really working.
- The teachers are not obligated to sprinkle in "positive" comments to you in the e-mails so you won't personally worry that they've labelled your child a "bad kid".
- In fact, there are some very positive efforts mentioned in the e-mail.
- These problems aren't completely "out of the blue".
- You seem to want the primary focus of any changes to be on the school and the teachers. Call it "making excuses" or "deflecting away from your child" or "minimizing" ("I also do not understand what is 'so bad' about giving the kid a little attention?"), but the expectations of your son very much seem to be of secondary concern to you.
- You think your child as some unique sort of puzzle that these teachers aren't willing to try and "solve" and instead only want to do the "easier" things.
- You think that the teachers are expecting too much from 2nd graders.
- Your kid isn't getting "shafted" or "beaten down" by his teachers.

 

[badblackpug]

Wow, I feel bad for the OP.

I don't get a sense that she is excusing the behavior at all. ... and some of the comments from the 1st post I just read as a mother who was upset at the time. I don't think that the OP seriously thinks that all teachers expect that children will be angels, all the time.

OP... if you're not scared to come back, please correct me if I'm wrong... but what I seem to gather is that the OP had been in contact with his "regular" class teacher and was aware that there had been some problems with her son's behavior, in that class. She and the teacher worked out some strategies, and his behavior had improved, and the OP lightened up his consequences. What the OP didn't know was that these behaviors were also a problem in his arts classes. It sounds as if the arts teachers had discussed the behavior with his classroom teacher, but somewhere along the line there was a breakdown in communication. I think that maybe the arts teachers assumed that the regular teacher had discussed her son's behavior pertaining to all classes, when the classroom teacher had really only addressed the problems in her own class. The arts teachers assumed that the OP knew his behavior was a problem in their classes, when in reality the OP only knew about the problems in the main classroom.

As for the "negativity" in the teachers' emails (or better said the lack of "positivity" LOL) In my experience elementary teachers have always done the "1,2" technique of softening the blow about "bad" issues. ie: say something positive, slip in the negative. I will give you an example from my own son: "S always gets top grades on his work, but his work is sloppy." "S finishes his work quickly and correctly, but is too "social" and disrupts the other children while he is waiting for them to complete their work."

OP.. The issue with positive reinforcement is that you need to ignore the negative and reward the positive. The problem with this, in a classroom setting, is that the negative behavior is disruptive to the surroundings, so it is very difficult to ignore a kid crawling under the desk when some, or all, of the class is distracted and laughing at it, and therefore not getting their work done. For example, I can ignore my 2 year old's temper tantrum at home. He can flop on the floor and kick and scream all he wants, but I can't ignore it in a restaurant because it disturbs the other diners.

It seems to me that your son has problems in the middle ground. If he is in a very structured environment like a classroom and the behavior expectations and consequences are very clear then he can manage. If he is in a very unstructured environment like home or camp where socialization and playing are the norm he is fine. It seems like it is the mid ground where the issue arises. A place like art, or scouts, where it is meant to be fun, but it is also educational. So while the area is semi social, there is also an expectation of a certain behavior. It seems like when your son is makes the wrong choices between being social and following directions. He sees art and music as fun, and therefore, and excuse to play.

We did have very good results with behavior reports. We based privileges on the results of behavior reports. A negative report resulted in loss of TV time. other people have had good results with tokens, as in the child earns tokens for every good report, and then the tokens (or marbles or whatever) can be turned in for "rewards."

Kids do act differently when their parents aren't around. He may do this stuff at school because he doesn't see the teacher's consequences as anything really punishing. Time out is torture for my 4 and 2 year olds, my 14 and 11 year olds would laugh. The music teacher can only offer time out. What's 2 minutes in the naughty chair for a 7 year old? Plus you get more attention in the naughty chair. Maybe when he acts up he needs to be removed from the classroom? Is the principal a threat? ... and then follow up with consequences at home.

 

[RitaE]

My solution for you is to homeschool - and I'm not saying that in a mean and snarky sort of way.

Your kid is apparently miserable in the traditional classroom and frankly, I'd guess that the traditional classroom is rather miserable having him there.

You want this environment where "Ben's positives" are constantly praised and encouraged and his "negative behaviors" are met with hugs and extra attention since that must be what he needs.

Well frankly, that is not a traditional school where there are 25 kids are whatever participating. That is individualized instruction and to expect a Teacher who needs to be concentrating on providing and education to ALL the kids to dedicate such a large portion of time to your kid is unreasonable and unfair to every other kid who is sitting and waiting trying to hear the lesson.

I'm curious as to what you did the other night when your kid was terrible at Scouts. Did you take him home and apply a consequence or stay and allow him to ruin the meeting for everybody?

For whatever reason your child does not seem to be able or willing to function in an age appropriate manner group of other children. It could be a behavioral disability, a learning disability, or just a strong willed kid who isn't under control -- I don't have the answer to that but as Ben's parent I suggest you find the real cause asap and address it.

I don't have much help beyond saying that expecting the school system and teachers to solve an issue that the parents haven't been able to solve is pie in the sky thinking. If it were my kid, I'd insist that he learn how to sit and behave in a classoom or he wouldn't be in a classroom.

If YOU don't do something now, I truly feel for what your life is going to be like come puberty.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I thought the letters from his teachers were thoughtful and helpful. They were answering your question. I wonder if the letters made you defensive because they implied that your son ought to be in control of his actions and that he should conform to the rules of the class, while you feel he can't control himself and so the teachers ought to adapt to him instead. The fact that he said "What, it's funny?" makes me think he chooses to be the class clown. You seem to believe that your child is a good kid who has no choice but to act the way he does. I think that it might be easier for you to work with the teachers to solve this problem if you seriously consider the possibility that your child is a good kid who also enjoys acting out in some situations.

His response seems to indicate he is acting out because he thinks its funny not because he doesn't know the behavior is inappropriate. Bring the hammer down on him at home for any problems at school. Whether or not you feel the teachers should handle him differently doesn't matter. If he hears you saying anything like that, he will know he can get away it with you. He needs to knows, regardless of a diagnosis or not, his behavior is not acceptable to you. He is the one who has to learn to control it and is responsible for it.

 

[goofy!]

Yes, I did contact his teacher, and as I already stated, we are in regular contact via email.

We were NOT informed of behaviors outside of his regular class EVER.

I NEVER asked them to describe ANY behavior in their emails. Go back and reread. I asked them to describe what strategies they were implying to ensure success of my son. I never stated I doubted the teachers.

If you have a medical degree, then I will take your comments as they are. If not, then I will listen to the professional opinion of doctors.

I have already stated that I want to work with his teachers as a TEAM...JUST as I HAVE been doing with his core class teacher. I could NOT work with what I didn't know about.

Hmmm...nowhere did I suggest a medical diagnosis, so I do not know why you think I need a medical degree.

You were the one who said you thought he had dyslexia, had him evaluated and had a tutor knowledgeable about dyslexia tutoring him.

You stated that because of his learning problems, that you surmised he may be frustrated, hence the acting out. You blamed the teachers again, saying he was frustrated because he knew he was never good enough.

You are once again blaming the teachers. You are now saying you are angry that they did not contact you earlier, but your first post said that you blame the teachers in that they did not know how to handle Ben, that you were mad because they were not good enough "cheerleaders" and that they should spend more love time with him, and that he was getting the shaft from the teachers. Pretty strong accusations - giving a child the shaft - from a parent.

You have 7 pages of consensus that your teachers sound professional, patient and are very caring in trying to help Ben the best way they know how. 7 pages of people agreeing that there was nothing negative in the way they informed you about Ben's significant behavior issues. In fact, 7 pages of people praising the way the teachers handled it and telling you that you have a great team to work with.

It is time to take a step back and start accepting that this is not the teachers, but that Ben has some issues. You need to swallow hard and take ownership that Ben needs help. Only then can progress be made.

Are you sure they have never mentioned his behavior issues before? I ask this because of your disappointment that they did not include anything positive about Ben in their e-mail.

Not saying this happened in your situation since none of us have knowledge of your previous conversations with the teachers, but I have seen this rather frequently with parents new to having to deal with issues in school.

The teachers will let the parents know there is a problem, framing it around positive behaviors. Ie: Johnny is such a good friend to our younger children. He is kind and compassionate. However, we are worried about his behavior in the classroom. He is having trouble focusing and attending to task.

The parents only hear the good part and basically go into denial over what they perceive as negative. How could there be behavior problems when Johnny is so kind and compassionate?

It is only when the teachers get a bit more detailed and not include the positives that the parents hear it. And most of them then claim that they had no inkling that the behavior existed before. Although the teachers had been mentioning it for awhile.

The teacher's responses to you were professional, appropriate, caring, kind and frankly, it sounds like you hit the jackpot with teachers that are wanting to help Ben anyway they can. They just need your help to work with them.

Have you written that letter yet to request a full staffing? Do that and immediately call and set up a conference with all the teachers to brainstorm strategies to help Ben succeed.

The thing I am confused about is that you said Ben responds best to positive reinforcement and cheerleading. Yet, your gut reaction to the first report of bad behavior was extremely negative, taking away all his privileges. It sounds like Ben would be best served by the positive reinforcement strategies that many have suggested here. Set up a meeting and discuss how to set up a behavior chart where Ben can earn rewards for positive behavior.

We have several kids on behavior charts in our school. They work like this:

Each morning, Ben would receive his star chart for the day. Behavior goals would have been decided with the parents during the initial conference. Ben would have a final goal of how many stars he should earn during the day. If Ben did not reach his daily goal, then, as somebody up thread mentioned, he would lose a pre-determined privilege for the evening.

This makes Ben accountable for his own behavior with no excuses and no blaming anybody else. He is in control to earn his prize or to lose his privileges.

An example of something we may have implemented is below:

Ben's Star Chart​

Date:_________________________________________-
Ben will earn ________________ stars today.

Goals_____________0 Stars_________1 star____________2 stars
I raised my hand......never................Most of the time.....every time
I participated..........never................Most of the time......every time
No disruptions..........many................only 1....................no disruptions


I earned _________ stars today

When I earn _________ stars, I get _________________
Signed____________(student and teacher)______________________

Of course, you would make it more tailored to the child and a bit more detailed. Such as 1 star may be "teacher only had to remind me once to focus and then I finished my task." 2 stars would be "teacher never had to remind me to get back to work."

But you need to call a meeting with the teachers, own the problem and then find mutual solutions to the problem. And be prepared, that a behavior chart such as this might require a staffing and the child to be on a 504 plan to implement. So, that is why it is so important to write that letter that your language tutor urged you to do.

When he is staffed into the system, many more avenues to seek help for Ben will open up.