Need thoughts on 7 year old 2nd grader behavior problem(long~sorry)

The only people getting the shaft are the other children in the class. Stop blaming the teachers and start working with them. Your child needs to learn that disruptive behavior is unacceptable during class.

I agree with this. I think the teachers have bent over backward to deal with him and If I had a child in those classes I would be very upset that he is allowed to disrupt my child's education that much.

Sorry to be harsh but he isn't the only child in the room and all the other children deserve to be able to learn.

Have you considered observing for a day or two to see how he really acts in school? Have you asked him why he misbehaves so badly in school?

It hurts to hear things about our children when they aren't glowing reports but it sounds like he has very patient (much more than any my kids have experienced) and tolerant teachers who are open to working to get this under control.
 
Thanks for pointing out the names were there, I had not realized that. I guess my concerns are that if what they have been doing isn't working, it's not going to magically start working, and something else needs to be tried.

I do not expect either teacher to spend 2 minutes with each child...not every child needs this. I would guess the time that is spent with him now, could, IMO, be used in a more positive and productive manner. I am not there, so I could be wrong.

My other issue, is that if this has been an ongoing problem, why am I just learning about it now, the very end of March, 7 months in to school. He has 3 months left. Had I been aware of this issue months ago, I would have absolutely addressed it.

He was already evaluated by a neuropsychologist in December. UNfortunately, he isn't done with the results yet.

I don't think teachers expect all children to be angels, that would be silly. But, I do bet that most teachers would prefer that.

I do take his behavior issues very seriously, and that is why I needed outside opinions before responding to each of them. It is all new ground as he has been fairly well behaved up until now. I'm not sure what is different now than in the past, except maybe the demands of academics(???).

Thanks for the thoughts. It is certainly hard to be the parent of a not so perfect kid. It is weird because he behaves at home, and I do not see any of these issues at home, so I was quite surprised. He is normally very eager, loves to participate, has a good attitude, etc.
 
Another thought: you mentioned that your son is 7 and in second grade. Most second graders turn 8 during second grade. Is he a young 7? When is his birthday?

I ask this because my own son is a November birthday. I started him in preschool 3s when he was not yet 3 (2 years, 10 months). It was obvious within a month or two that he was behind the other kids - not academically, just in terms of maturity. It was more difficult for him to sit quietly, line up, etc. Some of the kids in his class were 10 and 11 months older than he was, so it was really obvious.

We ultimately chose to have him do an extra year of preschool and start kindergarten later than the kids he began preschool with. I.e., he started K at 5 years, 10 months. It has made a huge difference. Now he is the leader in the class, a model student, and perfectly disciplined. It was the best decision we ever made.

Anyway, you may want to think about whether your child is old/mature enough to handle second grade. If there is a wide disparity in ages, he may always be immature and have difficulty behaving in class. He may have problems with social interaction too. He really may benefit from staying back a year.

Good luck OP. I am sure you are very frustrated.
 
Op,

I have to agree with the rest. I'm not a teacher, but I have 2 kids who are older than your son. The art teacher's letter was very detailed, and I have to say, and I don't mean this to be unkind, but that is not typical behavior for a second grader.

There may be some silliness, or some playing around, especially in a class that is less structured, like an art class, but most second graders are not crawling under the desk, and when reminded that they need to settle down, they are usually able to do so.

The letters seem to be very caring and concerned. It seems that both teachers have employed some good strategies to try to curb the behavior.

I know it hurts to hear negative things about your kids, but I really don't think either teacher has unrealistic expectations for your son.
 

Thanks for pointing out the names were there, I had not realized that. I guess my concerns are that if what they have been doing isn't working, it's not going to magically start working, and something else needs to be tried.

I do not expect either teacher to spend 2 minutes with each child...not every child needs this. I would guess the time that is spent with him now, could, IMO, be used in a more positive and productive manner. I am not there, so I could be wrong.

My other issue, is that if this has been an ongoing problem, why am I just learning about it now, the very end of March, 7 months in to school. He has 3 months left. Had I been aware of this issue months ago, I would have absolutely addressed it.

He was already evaluated by a neuropsychologist in December. UNfortunately, he isn't done with the results yet.

I don't think teachers expect all children to be angels, that would be silly. But, I do bet that most teachers would prefer that.

I do take his behavior issues very seriously, and that is why I needed outside opinions before responding to each of them. It is all new ground as he has been fairly well behaved up until now. I'm not sure what is different now than in the past, except maybe the demands of academics(???).

Thanks for the thoughts. It is certainly hard to be the parent of a not so perfect kid. It is weird because he behaves at home, and I do not see any of these issues at home, so I was quite surprised. He is normally very eager, loves to participate, has a good attitude, etc.

As the parent of one special needs kid who has been through extensive testing, this jumped out at me. Our younger dd was evaluated by a team of specialists in child development at our local Children's Hospital. Upon completion of testing and observation, they immediately had a conversation with me about their findings. I received the written report in the mail a few days later. DD currently receives Occupational Therapy. Same thing during her annual assessment. We discuss, and I receive the written report at our next session. There's no way you should have to still be waiting on this report. That's unacceptable, and I'd have him assessed by someone else.

The one thing that really jumped out at me, is his climbing under the table. He's too old to be doing that. And the fact that he doesn't think it's inappropriate bugs me. He may well just be a little young for his age, and I'm not suggesting he has special needs. But it's something out of the ordinary.
 
It could be because they have been handling it and it has just progressed instead of getting better over the year. Maybe the transition from the sub to the regular teacher has created extra stress - change in routines, expectations, etc.

Is he an active child? Maybe the class teacher has them in quiet activities before specials and he needs to burn off some energy first. Maybe run an errand, jump a few minutes, something to help him get it out so he can focus on class?

I can't speak for all teachers but no, I don't want a class of angels. That would be productive but so boring! I like the kids who have personalities and are like puzzles to figure out. One kid has matured so much as a 3rd grader. The student was prone to outbursts & inappropriate behavior but has grown so much over the year. Those kind of kids are the ones that I enjoy the most.

You are a great mom to check into things and help him do his best. Hang in there, it does sound like they want to help him too and eventually you'll figure out what works for him.
 
Thanks for pointing out the names were there, I had not realized that. I guess my concerns are that if what they have been doing isn't working, it's not going to magically start working, and something else needs to be tried.

I do not expect either teacher to spend 2 minutes with each child...not every child needs this. I would guess the time that is spent with him now, could, IMO, be used in a more positive and productive manner. I am not there, so I could be wrong.

My other issue, is that if this has been an ongoing problem, why am I just learning about it now, the very end of March, 7 months in to school. He has 3 months left. Had I been aware of this issue months ago, I would have absolutely addressed it.

He was already evaluated by a neuropsychologist in December. UNfortunately, he isn't done with the results yet.

I don't think teachers expect all children to be angels, that would be silly. But, I do bet that most teachers would prefer that.

I do take his behavior issues very seriously, and that is why I needed outside opinions before responding to each of them. It is all new ground as he has been fairly well behaved up until now. I'm not sure what is different now than in the past, except maybe the demands of academics(???).

Thanks for the thoughts. It is certainly hard to be the parent of a not so perfect kid. It is weird because he behaves at home, and I do not see any of these issues at home, so I was quite surprised. He is normally very eager, loves to participate, has a good attitude, etc.

It sounds like you have been aware of the problem though if you are pursuing evals and have already been in discussion with his classroom teacher about it.

Also you reached out to this teachers regarding the behavior issue. So they responded by explaining what has been going on and what they do..just as you asked them to. I didn't see either one of them doing anything beyond responding to you reaching out to them regarding the issue. Also didn't one of the emails indicate the behavior was escalating and that was part of their concern? That would be another reason they are speaking about this now..if things are not improving and it is staying the same or escalating that is a huge concern and a red flag that needs to be addressed.

From your OP..this was the start of the first teacher response:
. I do not believe that these
issues are just surfacing now, but they are escalating.
I am in
contact with his teachers and we are all trying to help Ben control
his behavior and put forth strong effort.

No kid is perfect..some kids struggle in some areas..it happens and as parents we have to find the tools to help them or find resources that can help them succeed.

It isn't fair of you to be trying to "blame" the teachers here..what you seem to be doing by making statements/claims that they want "hands folded" and perfect angels. Sure teachers want well behaved kids..so do parents. Also as I mentioned and has possibly been mentioned more than once here a classroom environment can not be compared to home. It's not the same and the impacts of disruptive behavior are great as well as the difficulty the teacher has giving focused attention to the kid who crawls under that table and so on. That does a huge disservice to the children in the classroom who do not get instruction while she is dealing with inappropriate behavior.
 
Big difference in being a little silly or calling out and hiding under tables. That part is a big red flag. Hiding under tables is not typical at that age.
 
It is certainly hard to be the parent of a not so perfect kid.



Just remember, no kid is perfect. You might read about or have someone brag about their "perfect children" but I guarantee those kids will cause problems somewhere somehow with someone ;-)


And your son probably behaves at home because he's not sharing you with 20+ other kids and he probably gets more one on one attention. It's a sign of maturity when they learn to wait to take their turn and that they dont need to be the center of the world or they learn to ask for attention on a constructive manner. It just sounds like your son needs a little help with that.
 
It sounds like you have been aware of the problem though if you are pursuing evals and have already been in discussion with his classroom teacher about it.

Also you reached out to this teachers regarding the behavior issue. So they responded by explaining what has been going on and what they do..just as you asked them to. I didn't see either one of them doing anything beyond responding to you reaching out to them regarding the issue. Also didn't one of the emails indicate the behavior was escalating and that was part of their concern? That would be another reason they are speaking about this now..if things are not improving and it is staying the same or escalating that is a huge concern and a red flag that needs to be addressed.

From your OP..this was the start of the first teacher response:


No kid is perfect..some kids struggle in some areas..it happens and as parents we have to find the tools to help them or find resources that can help them succeed.

It isn't fair of you to be trying to "blame" the teachers here..what you seem to be doing by making statements/claims that they want "hands folded" and perfect angels. Sure teachers want well behaved kids..so do parents. Also as I mentioned and has possibly been mentioned more than once here a classroom environment can not be compared to home. It's not the same and the impacts of disruptive behavior are great as well as the difficulty the teacher has giving focused attention to the kid who crawls under that table and so on. That does a huge disservice to the children in the classroom who do not get instruction while she is dealing with inappropriate behavior.

This is what is confusing me as well.

OP has already had him tested by a neuropsych. We are well underserviced here, and I can assure you it doesn't take months for the reports. If it did, I couldn't do my job very well. I encourage OP to call the doc and find out what is taking so long with the results. The school and she needs to know the findings immediately, as there are definite issues going on. She mentioned dyslexia, and that is important to start handling, immediately. Does the school know he was tested?

As teachers, we have to accommodate students, and as Spec Ed/Student Success Teacher, I would spend special attention with OP's son. I would also implement an IEP, as that will go a long way in ensuring his success in school. And, I would have an ongoing communication log sent home, as well as frequent meetings with her as a parent.

I am confused as well if this behaviour has been going on, yet she says the teachers haven't communicated this to her? I would encourage a face to face meeting with his team of teachers right away as accommodations need to be put in place as soon as possible.

There are definitely some learning and behaviour challenges presenting themselves in the OP's son, so now the question becomes, why?

Environment is important here, as well as physiological, emotional, academic and mental factors.

Best of luck, OP, Tiger
 
Thanks for pointing out the names were there, I had not realized that. I guess my concerns are that if what they have been doing isn't working, it's not going to magically start working, and something else needs to be tried.

I do not expect either teacher to spend 2 minutes with each child...not every child needs this. I would guess the time that is spent with him now, could, IMO, be used in a more positive and productive manner. I am not there, so I could be wrong.

My other issue, is that if this has been an ongoing problem, why am I just learning about it now, the very end of March, 7 months in to school. He has 3 months left. Had I been aware of this issue months ago, I would have absolutely addressed it.

He was already evaluated by a neuropsychologist in December. UNfortunately, he isn't done with the results yet.

I don't think teachers expect all children to be angels, that would be silly. But, I do bet that most teachers would prefer that.

I do take his behavior issues very seriously, and that is why I needed outside opinions before responding to each of them. It is all new ground as he has been fairly well behaved up until now. I'm not sure what is different now than in the past, except maybe the demands of academics(???).

Thanks for the thoughts. It is certainly hard to be the parent of a not so perfect kid. It is weird because he behaves at home, and I do not see any of these issues at home, so I was quite surprised. He is normally very eager, loves to participate, has a good attitude, etc.

As to your first post - I agree with nearly everyone else. I don't see any negativity from the teachers. I see very caring, professional, involved teachers looking for ways to help your son while not cheating the rest of the class out of their learning time. They've clearly spoken about his behaviour amongst themselves and tried different ways to redirect and refocus him and they're telling you the behaviour is escalating and getting worse not better.

You say in this post that he's been fairly well behaved until now and you're just hearing about this now but you said you'd been in contact with his teacher who had started back in Jan. about his behaviour and "things had improved" which indicates this has been an ongoing issue. I'd gather, from the teachers' notes, that they've been trying and that your contact with the teacher about this previously had had them thinking you understood that this was ongoing.

Also agree that giving him a few minutes of attention or loving when he comes into class would be the absolutely wrong way to go. Even if there weren't other kids who would like the same attention, it's rewarding the improper behaviour. That will only escalate them. Same as a kid having a tantrum - you don't give them attention and soothe and reward, in any way, that behaviour, because it teaches that tantruming will be rewarded, which will escalate and reinforce the tantrums.

As to something else needs to be tried - I agree, and I'd wager the teachers do too, but don't know what that is. They discuss a number of different strategies they've attempted and apparently nothing has worked.

As to you not seeing these issues at home - that's a tough one to figure out. It may be a few things. It may be that he doesn't act that way at home, for a whole variety of reasons, due to the reasons he's acting out in the first place, or because he's getting a lot of attention at home when he does things, positive or negative. If that were the case, then it wouldn't be that his behaviour differs, but that the responses he's getting differ.

For instance, the teacher in the first note says that he comes into class making noise, silly comments, etc., and she attempts to focus him on the lesson at hand or on taking his seat.

So imagine a similar situation at home. If it's, say, dinner time and you call everyone to the table, and he comes in making a silly comment or noise, or sits down and bangs his chair - is he made to quiet down and not given attention or does he get attention for that? Like does his sister laugh, do you and his dad, say, change your conversation to the comment he interjected?

It's not that you should always ignore him or that kids shouldn't make silly comments or that anyone expects kids to all sit quietly, hands folded, none of that is true.

I'm just suggesting that it's possible that the same behaviours may, in fact, be taking place at home, you just may not be seeing them the same way. It may not be that, he may act differently in the different places. Some kids may act silly and wild at home but be more disciplined at school. It happens lots of ways. Just don't discount that it may not be that it's only happening at school.

Your son's teachers sound awesome and quite caring - you're quite lucky he's got a good team willing to help him reach his potential and get on track now.
 
I do not expect either teacher to spend 2 minutes with each child...not every child needs this. I would guess the time that is spent with him now, could, IMO, be used in a more positive and productive manner.

Again, as everybody has pointed out, the time spent and methods used on your son's behavior have been very appropriate responses to his behavior.

If he needs more attention than other children, this would be considered 'special accommodations.'

Even though you have had him privately tested, this may not be enough to get a 504 or an IEP from the school if needed. I would suggest putting the gears in motion to get a full eval from the school. It can't hurt and often can point out areas where your child may need some guidance.

One thing that stands out is that in your original post, you say Ben can be a difficult child, but with a little kindness, love and patience he is a good kid. You are also expecting the teachers to do the same. So, since you acknowledge that he can be difficult, I think you may well be on the path to figuring out why he is behaving the way he is in school.
 
I would be contacting neuropsych. To wait over 4 months for the evaluation to be reported is completely unacceptable. Especially when he is struggling.
 
Again, as everybody has pointed out, the time spent and methods used on your son's behavior have been very appropriate responses to his behavior.

If he needs more attention than other children, this would be considered 'special accommodations.'

Even though you have had him privately tested, this may not be enough to get a 504 or an IEP from the school if needed. I would suggest putting the gears in motion to get a full eval from the school. It can't hurt and often can point out areas where your child may need some guidance.

One thing that stands out is that in your original post, you say Ben can be a difficult child, but with a little kindness, love and patience he is a good kid. You are also expecting the teachers to do the same. So, since you acknowledge that he can be difficult, I think you may well be on the path to figuring out why he is behaving the way he is in school.

Please do this!! It is important so you can get the ball rolling for any accommodations / services he might need. All you need to do is write the school a simple letter requesting the testing and sign it.
 
Thanks for pointing out the names were there, I had not realized that. I guess my concerns are that if what they have been doing isn't working, it's not going to magically start working, and something else needs to be tried.

No, it won't, but, sadly, there are limits to what the teachers can do. They have time constraints, they have other students, they have lesson plans to follow.

I do not expect either teacher to spend 2 minutes with each child...not every child needs this. I would guess the time that is spent with him now, could, IMO, be used in a more positive and productive manner. I am not there, so I could be wrong.

I am sure there are other children who would like the teacher's undivided attention. Unfortunately, your son is in a group situation. It really isn't fair to the other students, who can follow the rules, that one child gets to delay the class every day. Also, it is reinforcing his negative behaviors by paying attention to them.

My other issue, is that if this has been an ongoing problem, why am I just learning about it now, the very end of March, 7 months in to school. He has 3 months left. Had I been aware of this issue months ago, I would have absolutely addressed it.

With this, I agree.

He was already evaluated by a neuropsychologist in December. UNfortunately, he isn't done with the results yet.

This is completely unacceptable. You need to light a fire under him.

I don't think teachers expect all children to be angels, that would be silly. But, I do bet that most teachers would prefer that.

Heck, I would prefer it if my OWN kids would be angels.

I do take his behavior issues very seriously, and that is why I needed outside opinions before responding to each of them. It is all new ground as he has been fairly well behaved up until now. I'm not sure what is different now than in the past, except maybe the demands of academics(???).

Thanks for the thoughts. It is certainly hard to be the parent of a not so perfect kid. It is weird because he behaves at home, and I do not see any of these issues at home, so I was quite surprised. He is normally very eager, loves to participate, has a good attitude, etc.

You can't compare home and school. They are two totally different entities. At home you have (by your signature) 2 children to deal with. There are less distractions and he already has your individual attention. The same behavior that is required in school is not required at home. At home my kids NEVER shut up. (seriously, 3 of the 4 are constant talkers) In school they know they need to be quiet, and they are able to do so.
 
My other issue, is that if this has been an ongoing problem, why am I just learning about it now, the very end of March, 7 months in to school. He has 3 months left. Had I been aware of this issue months ago, I would have absolutely addressed it.

He was already evaluated by a neuropsychologist in December. UNfortunately, he isn't done with the results yet.

.

Sorry, but I have to call you out on this. You aren't just learning about this now! You said in your original post that he has had problems this year and you have talked to the teacher about him. You claim things did get better before the original teacher went out on maternity leave yet you had him tested in December. That tells me that while he may have improved slightly, he was in no way fine or you wouldn't have put your son through hours upon hours of unnecessary testing.

It sounds like your son has a history of behavior problems this school year and you were very much aware of it. He had enough problems that you had him tested. You need to be on that phone with the doctor tomorrow morning and demand the results so you know what direction to take this. It does not take almost four months to get testing results. If the doctor gives you a hard time, find a new doctor, sign a release of records form, and have the new doctor interpret the results.
 
When is his birthday? 7 This far into second grade is young. He may just be too young/ immature, and it hasn't been an issue until now because his classmates have settled down while he hasn't. Perhaps he should stay back. If this is the issue, it will only get harder as he gets older and especially in middle school. My son has a classmate in 6th grade that is 10. That is a 2+ year gap and he is becoming a nuisance to all the kids. His younger brother is also starting to have this problem and he turned 8 at the beginning of 3rd grade.

I thought the emails were very detailed and thoughtful.
 
When is his birthday? 7 This far into second grade is young. He may just be too young/ immature, and it hasn't been an issue until now because his classmates have settled down while he hasn't. Perhaps he should stay back. If this is the issue, it will only get harder as he gets older and especially in middle school. My son has a classmate in 6th grade that is 10. That is a 2+ year gap and he is becoming a nuisance to all the kids. His younger brother is also starting to have this problem and he turned 8 at the beginning of 3rd grade.

I thought the emails were very detailed and thoughtful.

Not around here it isn't. My daughter didn't turn 8 until the last month of school, as did several of her classmates who turned 8 in the summer and Sept. My daughter despite being one of the youngest, is one of the most mature and responsible kids in her 3rd grade class.

We start kindergarten at age 3 here (must turn 4 by end of Dec.) for Junior Kindergarten, or age 5 for senior, so the age of the OP's son is right on track.

Not sure why you are saying that being 7 in April of 2nd grade is too young? How old were your kids at this point?

Tiger
 
Just to clarify a couple of points:

He was evaluated by a neuropsych to have him tested for learning disabilities *only*. It became apparent by the beginning of grade 1 he was having trouble learning to read. Because of insurance issues, as well as a long wait to be evaluated,he was not seen until December. He was NOT having behavior problems.

In February of this year(grade 2) it was brought to my attention that Ben was having 'minor' behavior issues in his regular class. There was NO mention of any behavior issues in his specials(art, music, computers, health, or gym). The adverse behaviors consisted of mostly trying to get his friends to laugh at him when he shouldn't. Basically he was being the class clown. It was addressed right away, and as far as I knew it had decreased.

The end of March is when I got his progress report home with the unsatisfactory comments under the effort column in art and music *only*. There were little to no remarks from his regular classroom teacher regarding inappropriate regular class behavior.

Any 'behavior issues' up to this point, were extremely manageable, fell within the scope of typical behavior of a 7 year old kid. I do find 'hiding under a desk' to be very untypical of not only him, but any 7 year old boy. Very uncharacteristic of Ben. I just asked him about it, and his response was,"What, it's funny."

I was in contact with his doctor regarding the length of time waiting for his report. He told me to expect 6-8 weeks. Well, it's almost 16. His response was that it was a very rough winter for him, and he was very ill.

His reading tutor has advised me to request in writing a formal eval from the school, which I plan on doing.
 
Thanks for pointing out the names were there, I had not realized that. I guess my concerns are that if what they have been doing isn't working, it's not going to magically start working, and something else needs to be tried.

I do not expect either teacher to spend 2 minutes with each child...not every child needs this. I would guess the time that is spent with him now, could, IMO, be used in a more positive and productive manner. I am not there, so I could be wrong.

My other issue, is that if this has been an ongoing problem, why am I just learning about it now, the very end of March, 7 months in to school. He has 3 months left. Had I been aware of this issue months ago, I would have absolutely addressed it.

He was already evaluated by a neuropsychologist in December. UNfortunately, he isn't done with the results yet.

I don't think teachers expect all children to be angels, that would be silly. But, I do bet that most teachers would prefer that.

I do take his behavior issues very seriously, and that is why I needed outside opinions before responding to each of them. It is all new ground as he has been fairly well behaved up until now. I'm not sure what is different now than in the past, except maybe the demands of academics(???).

Thanks for the thoughts. It is certainly hard to be the parent of a not so perfect kid. It is weird because he behaves at home, and I do not see any of these issues at home, so I was quite surprised. He is normally very eager, loves to participate, has a good attitude, etc.
Ben sounds like a very sweet, energetic boy, who needs much more attention than is currently possible in a classroom setting.

It sounds like you aren't aware that a music and art teacher would either see every student in a building or might even be in different buildings. The regular teacher is the one that communicates with the parents. The regular teacher, depending on the district, could have 20-30+ students. My friend, an elementary music teacher, sees over 600 students over the course of the week. The music or art teacher talks to the regular teacher when she comes to pick them up. If your child is a frequent topic of conversation when they only have 30 seconds, that is not a good sign. The regular teacher then communicates to you about ongoing behavior, which you said she did. Sometimes kids can hold it together in one class (behavior improves), but going to a class they only visit once or twice a week is more difficult.

And please don't make excuses for him about his disruptive behavior being because he possibly has dyslexia. Unless things have changed since my children were in 2nd grade, students aren't expected to read in music or art. By all means, ask the school to evaluate him. Something is going on, but don't let him think that you will make excuses for his behavior. What I read in those emails were teachers that put a lot of time into writing thoughtful, helpful emails. I did not see any negativity at all. The fact that these teachers, who probably have at least 500 students each, knew exactly who your child was and could list ways they had tried to help him was very enlightening.
 

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