My DS7 is driving me crazy!!! Bad behavior at school & sass at home

[Claire&TheBoys]

We have exactly the same issue with DD7 and the shows she watches. ALL of her friends (according to her) are allowed to watch what I consider "tween" to teen shows - Wizards of Waverly, Suite Life, iCarly etc. I've watched them and there is so much disrespectful attitude to the parents (most are seen as morons by the kids) and even to their friends. Oh for the good old Dora days.

When she started watching them at the start of this school year, her attitude was brutal. We banned everything except Hannah Montana - and even that goes on "hiatus" if we have problems. Since then she is much more respectful, although the occassional "whatever" does slip in...she just gets a silent stare and usually apologizes.

We had a friend of DS8's over on the weekend and I was surprised by the number of times they all called each other idiot, but kind of endearingly, like a nickname. It was either idiot or "dude" - even to my DD. I had to keep correcting all of them on idiot.

I'm glad you mentioned that about the Wimpy series. I had looked at it at Costco but it talked about middle school so I put it down for a year or two. Thought about taking them to the movie, but just had a feeling I'd probably regret it. Glad to know my instincts were on target.

The Wimpy Kid books are actually written on a 3rd/4th/5th grade level, I think. I don't object too much to the books (I read the first two way before he did) even though they are about middle school. I do reinforce that he must be mindful of how he addresses me and speaks to me, and do not hesitate to let him know when he's out of line. The TV shows are much worse than the books. I don't let him watch any of the ones you named. Since he has a younger brother, we still are firmly entrenched in Playhouse Disney, with the exception of Phineas & Ferb, which they both like.

 

[KY*Figment]

My husband work in the social service field and we have found the current 7 to 9 year old age group is the former 11 to 13 year group. Think about it; kids are socialized and educated at an earlier age w/ daycare and pre-school. The majority of us were w/ family at a young are. So, it's only right that maturity is sped up. Also, look at it through a food aspect such as hormones in the foods make children develop earlier. Then add in the media. I have an 8 year old and soon to be 6 year old. Mine are girls and the parents of the same age groups laugh and say it is even worse with girls. My pediatrician all but confirmed our theory. There may be studies out there but I see it at work and at home so I have no desire to read a study. My husband likes to read the studies but hasn't found one he likes with re: control groups.

This to shall pass and then we will be venting about dating and driving.

 

[KY*Figment]

The Wimpy Kid books are actually written on a 3rd/4th/5th grade level, I think. I don't object too much to the books (I read the first two way before he did) even though they are about middle school. I do reinforce that he must be mindful of how he addresses me and speaks to me, and do not hesitate to let him know when he's out of line. The TV shows are much worse than the books. I don't let him watch any of the ones you named. Since he has a younger brother, we still are firmly entrenched in Playhouse Disney, with the exception of Phineas & Ferb, which they both like.

The Wimpy Kid movie is really good. I took my kids to see it and believe it or not we walked out w/ some pretty good lessons on being yourself. My 8 year old tries to act like others. This movie assisted in what we have been trying to get her to understand. This summer's reading will include these books.

 

[deerhart]

the one thing I will caution against, the ALL or NOTHING consequence just does NOT work with many kids.

For example, if you son has to have green conduct reports for multiple days or else the restrictions get added, and one day he has one issue in the morning, there is NO incentive for him to try to behave the rest of the day.

We ran into that issue with my kids by age 4 and the conduct reports at school. Once the card got flipped, well it was completely downhill from there. So we had things in place that through continued good behavior they could earn back the flip OR we broke it down into sections and they had to have so many good versus bad sections.

With my first grader we grade each class period. He then has to have 9 of 12 classes be good periods (usually he has 10 or 11) without consequence. We also get feedback on the form (what he did to lose the star, good things he did throughout the day etc). Sometimes he gets an x just for goofing off, talking to much, not focusing or needing lots of reminders. While annoying, not really bad behavior either (especially when we went through 4 iss for hitting last semester!!!).

His behavior is always worse at home (rebound from meds and tired). Tonight it was how mean we were and that he hated us because he got in trouble for annoying his older brother. Allergies are in high form as well and those aren't helping at all EITHER.

 

[MNdisneymom]

We have exactly the same issue with DD7 and the shows she watches. ALL of her friends (according to her) are allowed to watch what I consider "tween" to teen shows - Wizards of Waverly, Suite Life, iCarly etc. I've watched them and there is so much disrespectful attitude to the parents (most are seen as morons by the kids) and even to their friends. Oh for the good old Dora days.



I'm glad you mentioned that about the Wimpy series. I had looked at it at Costco but it talked about middle school so I put it down for a year or two. Thought about taking them to the movie, but just had a feeling I'd probably regret it. Glad to know my instincts were on target.

I've had some mouthy issues with my 7 year old DS as well...But I know what its about (completely unrelated issues to the tv thing--family stuff ). He doesn't watch a whole lot of kid tv, but if he does watch, we do it together, and we talk about the behavior as it goes on. (He *does* like WOWP which I think is silly--but he's genuinely appalled by Alex's obnoxiousness.)

He's a reader as well, and several of his friends have read the Wimpy Kid books--I said no way! I've come up with some other good alternatives; he just finished the first How to Train Your Dragon book and enjoyed it immensely. (silly boy fun) He also is eager to start on the Percy Jackson books, but they're a little harder. (But great if you like Greek mythology like he does.)

Isn't raising boys great? I love him to death, but he keeps me on my toes!

 

[robinb]

I now realize my mistakes. I need to continue the restriction for the set length of time regardless of his good behavior.

I think it depends on the punishment. If you tend toward the "You're grounded for A MONTH!" type of punishment or missing a friend's birthday party type of punishment or other "high stakes" types of punishments then you may want to put in place a way for your son to earn the privilege back in a certain amount of time. What you really want is less/no sass and more compliance and earning back a privilege with good behavior will give you that. The positive carrot is earning back what they really want with good behavior.

However, a "small potatoes" type of punishment (no electronics for a day or two, no playdates for the weekend) should be completely followed through on.

I tend to the small potatoes types of punishments and rarely go for the high stakes variety and I never threaten something that I will not follow through on.

 

[badblackpug]

I think it depends on the punishment. If you tend toward the "You're grounded for A MONTH!" type of punishment or missing a friend's birthday party type of punishment or other "high stakes" types of punishments then you may want to put in place a way for your son to earn the privilege back in a certain amount of time. What you really want is less/no sass and more compliance and earning back a privilege with good behavior will give you that. The positive carrot is earning back what they really want with good behavior.

However, a "small potatoes" type of punishment (no electronics for a day or two, no playdates for the weekend) should be completely followed through on.

I tend to the small potatoes types of punishments and rarely go for the high stakes variety and I never threaten something that I will not follow through on.

...I don't know, I think it depends on the child. You have to go with what is most painful, some kids can easily sail through no media or no play date, but threaten the loss of a party of something else it will straighten them out. I have taken away a birthday party, trick or treating, and a class trip. The party and the trip were a consequence of not doing homework, trick or treating (and no costume for the class party, I actually returned the costume) was a consequence of a smart mouth to the teacher. I intended to, and did, send a message.

OP I don't know if smart mouth or class disruption is a problem in school, but when we had our smart mouth problem we made her write a letter of apology to the teacher and read it in front of the class. Again, she was a little older, but it definitely sent a message!

 

[robinb]

...I don't know, I think it depends on the child. You have to go with what is most painful, some kids can easily sail through no media or no play date, but threaten the loss of a party of something else it will straighten them out. I have taken away a birthday party, trick or treating, and a class trip. The party and the trip were a consequence of not doing homework, trick or treating (and no costume for the class party, I actually returned the costume) was a consequence of a smart mouth to the teacher. I intended to, and did, send a message.

OP I don't know if smart mouth or class disruption is a problem in school, but when we had our smart mouth problem we made her write a letter of apology to the teacher and read it in front of the class. Again, she was a little older, but it definitely sent a message!

Parents are different too. I am by no means a "my DD is my bestest friend" type parent, but I am also not a "my way or the highway" parent either. I use consequences to shape behavior and not to "send a message". And frankly, I wonder exactly what message you really sent to your child when you used such painful consequences. But ... if it works for you than who am I to say you shouldn't do it . All I know is that with my DD painful consequences without any hope of redemption doesn't work.

 

[mombare]

It is so interesting to read about other 7 year-olds! My DD is 7, and she is overall a great kid. She has meltdowns, just like any other kid (of course, it's because we are mean)....the only problems we have include her pestering her younger brother and just being slow at getting out the door! I have to remind myself often how great she is when I am so frustrated!! Her consequences include losing computer privileges and/or TV. Both of these options are devastating to her. Fortunately she also self-disciplines, and keeps track of the days she is banned from each of those things. If she accidently does one of them, she will come to me and apologize! I really need to get my act together because DS is going to keep us on our toes.

One thing I want to comment on is the TV shows...my kids have both watched those "tween" movies for a couple of years, and we have not seen the copycat behavior on a regular basis. DD used to wonder when we were going to live in a hotel (Zach and Cody)! Occasionally we will notice an unusual behavior out of one of them, and just remind them that TV is not real and that the kids in those shows are teenagers. BUT the same is true for behaviors they see in their friends/peers - we have the conversation with them quite often about how each family is different!

I don't have much to offer OP, other than to confirm that 7 year old boys all seem to be struggling right now. There is a core group of boys in DD's class that are struggling with classroom behavior right now! YIKES! I am scared to death of my DS....much more capable of dealing with DD!!!

 

[jbron423]

I think all the options given have been great, however, there are just kids that don't care. My son included. He just doesn't care. I have taken away his wrestling stuff, his tv, heck even the door to his bedroom is off the hinges because he was caught watching tv at 11 at night. He just doesn't care. He has lost his cell phone, and is in jeopordy of losing his Disney trip. Still doesn't care. He won't do his homework, I have been trying to get him to clean his room for the past 3 weeks. He just sits in there, no tv, no toys, nothing, just sits.

Hi....I'm lurking here from the Disneyland CA boards, but had to comment on this....do you think he could be depressed? Kids do get depressed. Hard to imagine a kid just sitting with no tv/toys/etc. and not caring unless there is something else going on. Might be worth discussing with pediatrician.

 

[badblackpug]

Parents are different too. I am by no means a "my DD is my bestest friend" type parent, but I am also not a "my way or the highway" parent either. I use consequences to shape behavior and not to "send a message". And frankly, I wonder exactly what message you really sent to your child when you used such painful consequences. But ... if it works for you than who am I to say you shouldn't do it . All I know is that with my DD painful consequences without any hope of redemption doesn't work.

The message I sent was that smarting off to a teacher was absolutely and positively unacceptable. ...and believe me, it definitely "shaped" her behavior because she never did it again. I think the punishment needs to fit the crime, and in this case I think the crime was HUGE. In our home sass to teachers is never acceptable. In the instance of the birthday party, she came home on Friday with a note from the teacher that she had a book report that had been due that day that she did not turn in. She had until Monday to turn it in. There was no way in the world that she was going to spend 4 hours at any birthday party with an entire book to read and a report to write. Our rule is that homework is done before play. In the 3rd case she was duly warned that she would not be able to attend the class trip if she had any missing assignments in the intervening 2 weeks. She did and she didn't.

I am a firm believer that you never make a threat or a promise that you can't or won't keep. My kids are very secure in the fact that if I say something will or won't happen be it good or bad than that is what will or won't happen. I also believe that children need to learn consequences for their actions. These are life lessons. no one is going to give them a break as an adult because they are really, really sorry.

 

[JamesMom]

The message I sent was that smarting off to a teacher was absolutely and positively unacceptable. ...and believe me, it definitely "shaped" her behavior because she never did it again. I think the punishment needs to fit the crime, and in this case I think the crime was HUGE. In our home sass to teachers is never acceptable. In the instance of the birthday party, she came home on Friday with a note from the teacher that she had a book report that had been due that day that she did not turn in. She had until Monday to turn it in. There was no way in the world that she was going to spend 4 hours at any birthday party with an entire book to read and a report to write. Our rule is that homework is done before play. In the 3rd case she was duly warned that she would not be able to attend the class trip if she had any missing assignments in the intervening 2 weeks. She did and she didn't.

I am a firm believer that you never make a threat or a promise that you can't or won't keep. My kids are very secure in the fact that if I say something will or won't happen be it good or bad than that is what will or won't happen. I also believe that children need to learn consequences for their actions. These are life lessons. no one is going to give them a break as an adult because they are really, really sorry.

So she got a double punishment? Missed B-day party to make up the assignment AND missed the field trip for missing the assignment? Hmmm. Not sure I could do that. I remember being kept at home on Halloween for some long forgotten offense (with my mom sometimes breathing wrong was a good enough reason) and handing out candy to my peers. It was humilating and I still remember the feeling I had that day. Don't know if it modified my behavior, but it certainly built up resentment and a host of other emotions that still remain decades later.

 

[JamesMom]

OP, here.

Thanks again for the responses. It is interesting to read about everyone different parenting styles. I only learned from my childhood what NOT to do (abuse, physical & emotional) so I am winging it most of the time

My son is doing much better. So far no problems at school and almost no grumbling yesterday. He went on a play date to a friends house he hadn't visited in a few months. I spoke with the mom about the no 'electronics' restriction. She said they don't do that stuff on school nights anyway. Huh. So I guess this is the 'safe' house for when DS gets restriction. lol.


BTW - after the second offense, I did have DS write a letter to his teacher apologizing. Lot of good it did... At least it let the teacher know I was on the case.

Keep the comments coming. I saw another post about problems with a 7 yr old girl so its not just the boys.

 

[seashoreCM]

... or ship my son to China ...

If only you could find out why your child is acting out that way. Maybe he needs a heart to heart talk every so often including questions about every little thing he does wrong.

It's unfortunate that so many kids grow up with problems and there aren't enough counselors to find out what the problems are.

Could it be that your kid just wants more attention?

Since (or when) China had a one child per family policy, have there been any studies made about whether the one child grew up better behaved? (Or what became of second children, who were taken from the respective families and "sent to work in the fields".)

Family hints: http://www.cockam.com/family.htm

 

[JamesMom]

If only you could find out why your child is acting out that way. Maybe he needs a heart to heart talk every so often including questions about every little thing he does wrong.

It's unfortunate that so many kids grow up with problems and there aren't enough counselors to find out what the problems are.

Could it be that your kid just wants more attention?

I'm taking the child to WDW in 11 days for 6 nights of Mom & son time. Special Needs brother is staying home with Dad. He's getting plenty of attention

Since (or when) China had a one child per family policy, have there been any studies made about whether the one child grew up better behaved? (Or what became of a second child, who was taken from the family and "sent to work in the fields".)
Interesting question...

..

 

[tricia]

Thanks for all the responses! I knew this was a good place to come.

I now realize my mistakes. I need to continue the restriction for the set length of time regardless of his good behavior. I need to quit nagging! Say it once and shut up about it. (I tend to lecture a bit with the whys and wherefores) And I need to speak in terms of positives. Instead of - "you messed up so no TV", say, "because you had good behavior this entire week at school, you can watch TV".

This morning was a nightmare - lots of sass, stomping, etc, but he got on that school bus and I didn't smack him (though I wanted to, lol).

This afternoon he showed me his clear behavior chart without me asking (yes! on 2 counts).
He & his younger brother went to a neighbors to play (the moms knows about no electronics) and the boy starting picking on the younger brother. He stood up for his brother (how sweet!).
I said 'That's great that you helped your brother - that's what family is all about. I am proud of you." He didn't ask and I am not going to offer TV or anything as a reward - just the 'good job' compliment. The restriction stands.

Hopefully we'll have 4 more days like today and hubby & I can relax a bit. Yeah, right lol.

Good job. Sounds like you are a little less stressed about it now too. That can make a world of difference.

 

[copperhound]

I'll chime in here with my experience. My son (almost 7) has a history of behavior issues due to sensory processing disorder and other issues, but he has had a great winter in terms of behavior at school -- until about 2-3 weeks ago. This baffling change for the worse took me by surprise and knocked the wind out of me, b/c I was hoping the worst of the behavior was behind us and he was maturing out of it.

It took me a little while (and a 2-day stint in a room with him at the Poly) to figure this out, but I think the root of his problem is sleep disturbance due to congestion from seasonal allergies and nightmares. A dose of Benadryl at bedtime has resulted in a dramatic improvement in his behavior at school and home. Of course, last night he was up with nightmares, so we'll see how today goes.

Whatever is causing your son's behavior, I hope it is resolved soon. For what it's worth, I use a monetary incentive system for behavioral issues and have had some success with it. My kids can lose money, as well as earn it, and we go shopping once a month with their earnings.

 

[polineedyan]

here is what i recommend. google 'behavior modification' specifically the university of buffalo's website. there are download-able, printable, charts and pointers. Its evidence- based and the first thing any psychologist will point you to. Feel free to pm me, if you cant locate it.
I will tell you that in my own experience, its always about my response to the situation moreso than the behavior. If its happening at school only and not at home, that may point to other things. If its happening at home, then I would look up that stuff and call a psychologist. Ive used therapists for 2 of our 4 and its a different world now.
Its super easy. Anything that they would typically just have or do becomes a reward for positive behavior. I would start with daily rewards for getting better scores on those behavior charts from school.

 

[badblackpug]

So she got a double punishment? Missed B-day party to make up the assignment AND missed the field trip for missing the assignment? Hmmm. Not sure I could do that. I remember being kept at home on Halloween for some long forgotten offense (with my mom sometimes breathing wrong was a good enough reason) and handing out candy to my peers. It was humilating and I still remember the feeling I had that day. Don't know if it modified my behavior, but it certainly built up resentment and a host of other emotions that still remain decades later.

No, two separate incidences. The bday party incident was in the 4th grade, the trip incident was in the 6th.

With the 6th grade thing she had done very well all year but was falling into "summeritis" at the end of the year and started missing assignments. Because of 1 missing assignment her English grade took a huge plummet as it was a project, so she was told any more missing assignments and you can't go on the trip.

Again, with the Halloween thing this was a MAJOR offense to us, and we thought it required major consequences. She still got to attend the class party, she just didn't have a costume and she didn't get to trick-or-treat. She understood why.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Another one here who isn't discounting this being related to Grandma. Children often process grief very slowly, in bits and pieces. Someone mentioned traditions without her, and you said you had just told him you were going to Disney soon. - Did she by any chance go with you last time?

In general, though, seven is an age when they're getting more independant, and it could just be boundry-testing - combined, of course, with the nice weather and simply not wanting to be in school!

I've had good luck with a points system with DS. (He's a bit older, so we related it to the points system in Harry Potter.) We can add or take away points for behavior, and he can "spend" them on things he wants. I like it because it reminds me to notice - out loud - when he's doing something good, rather than only saying something when things go wrong.

Kudos to you for your patience. Enjoy your trip!