Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[kaytieeldr]

But remember, these are all positive. I mean, Disney would never do something which benefits them to the detriment of their guests....

Your sarcasm is showing. Could I ask why people keep forgetting, or refuse to consider, that ultimately Disney is in business to make money, i.e. benefit the company?

No offense, but this response is exactly what I'm talking about how some people will never see Disney doing something for profit.

And some people always see Disney doing things for profit. We just understand it and don't resent it.

You always mention free dining. It's not free, you're paying a premium for the room to get it.

You're paying rack rate, not a premium. And it's not free dining, it's the dining plan free; and yes, there is a difference. It not semantics.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

As far as I can remember, it was Mission Space, which had Hewlett-Packard as a sponsor, at least originally (not sure as to the current status). But this extends pretty much all the way back to the beginning. Walt got ABC to invest a big chunk of change into getting Disneyland built. He used Pepsi's sponsorship to get it's a small world built. Same with Carousel of Progress, which was built with money from GE and sponsored by them for a long time afterward. There are many other examples. Sponsorship has gotten us many more attractions than we would have had -- and it was very definitely a Walt-approved way of doing things.

Scott

Thanks. I forgot all about Mission Space. I do seem to recall the HP sign still out at MS when I was there last month.

I also agree that back in the beginning, Walt did get a lot of sponsorships to help with his vision. Thank goodness!

Also, the attractions you mentioned were technically built for the World's Fair (SW and COP) and the sponsor asked Disney and his imagineers to design and build it. After the World's Fair, they were moved to Disneyland. Regardless, I agree that Walt & later the Disney Company had a lot of corporate sponsorships. I am thankful that he got these so he could help finance his vision and that Disney was able to continue this tradition. I wish Disney could get a lot more sponsorship than they currently have, but sponsors evidently don't believe it's a great use of their advertising dollars anymore.

That said, my original point was simply that Disney has built a lot of attractions recently without corporate sponsors and has even lost some sponsors. There seems to be this perception that Disney receives millions to build new attractions. I don't think that's the case anymore. Therefore, for Disney to continue to build such world class attractions they have to be very profitable so they can reinvest some while still providing shareholders an acceptable return. They have to constantly look at profitability of all items and make tough decisions at times which involves changing things that will inevitably upset some guests.

Absolutely. They do still have many positives (and have added things over the years which are good). I never meant to imply they didn't. However, when they add things, they seem to take these things (or parts of them) away more and more frequently lately.

I am not all doom and gloom about Disney (contrary to what it looks like here). However, there have been a lot of things taken away in recent years which have really taken away from the Disney experience for many (just not all) guests. IMO (yes, opinion), it's been too much taken away with not enough given up in return. However, as I've said a bunch of times, Disney can do what they want. It's their party. But I don't have to like it or accept the (weak) explanations we get when asked why something is changing which takes away some of the experience.

Although I disagree with your some of your opinions, I'm glad you posted this as it seems like we at least agree on the thought process, just not the results.

I don't like the monorail closure and I don't even want to speculate as to the reason. However, since it personally doesn't affect our infrequent long trips too much even though we stay at BLT, I have a hard time jumping on the shame on Disney bandwagon. I understand why people are upset and would probably be more upset myself if I travelled only in the off-season (versus when the kids are out of school) and stayed at BLT. I just feel like there have been some on this thread (not you) who cannot find a single positive thing to say. With the stresses of everyday life, being able to enjoy spending time as a family in a place we all love seems to be what matters more to us than whether or not Disney changed how packages are delivered to the resort or whether or not "such and such" M&G or restaurant closed. Perhaps if we travelled there more often, these things would bother me more. Again, I'm glad you admitted that there have been many positives even if you believe the negative still outweighs them. As I've said before, at least we can agree to disagree.

 

[baler31]

In defense to your last point, how popular was the Garden Grill anyways?

Well based on trying to get an ADR, just as popular as Le Cellier.

 

[racefanof88]

If you run the numbers the free dining plan isn't free AT ALL.

Room only -All Star Movies-September 24-October 1 $568

Room and 7 day base tickets-All Star Movies-September 24-October 1 $1361

Room, 7 day base tickets and free Quick Service Dining-September 24-October 1
$1590

Room, 7 day base tickets and free Basic Dining-All Star Movies-September 24-October 1-$1821.
I would say that is a premium price for the All Star Movies

All of the above calculations included 2 adults and 1 child(12), using Disney
specials.

Same scenario with my APs
Room only--$588
Room with Quick Service--$1326
Room with Basic Dining Plan--$1557

Running these numbers has given me another reason to reconsider renewing my APs. Even with the prices being a little lower with the AP(except room only), the difference does NOT make up for the cost of the AP .

 

[dawgsgirl]

I'm having a flashback!! Does anyone remember the old debate board here on the DIS????

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Monorail.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Your sarcasm is showing. Could I ask why people keep forgetting, or refuse to consider, that ultimately Disney is in business to make money, i.e. benefit the company?

Believe it or not, it's not just about money, at least for some. Making a profit is good and fine, but not the entire motivation for all.

And some people always see Disney doing things for profit. We just understand it and don't resent it.

There's nothing wrong with profits, keeps them floating and people working.

You're paying rack rate, not a premium. And it's not free dining, it's the dining plan free; and yes, there is a difference. It not semantics.

I beg to differ...

 

[TLSnell1981]

Monorail.

Or lack of...

 

[racefanof88]

Or lack of...

 

[kaytieeldr]

If you run the numbers the free dining plan isn't free AT ALL.

Room only -All Star Movies-September 24-October 1 $568

Room and 7 day base tickets-All Star Movies-September 24-October 1 $1361

Room, 7 day base tickets and free Quick Service Dining-September 24-October 1
$1590

Room, 7 day base tickets and free Basic Dining-All Star Movies-September 24-October 1-$1821.
I would say that is a premium price for the All Star Movies

All of the above calculations included 2 adults and 1 child(12), using Disney
specials.

Same scenario with my APs
Room only--$588
Room with Quick Service--$1326
Room with Basic Dining Plan--$1557

Running these numbers has given me another reason to reconsider renewing my APs. Even with the prices being a little lower with the AP(except room only), the difference does NOT make up for the cost of the AP .

Five nights at AS Music (Sports didn't come up as an option) 8/28-9/2, same three people, six day base tickets:
Room only $565 + tickets $773.19 = $1,338.19
QSDP included $1,347.74
DDP included $1,512.74
QSDP extra $1,866.49
DDP extra $2,031.49

You may not be aware, but the current 'dining plan free' promotion requires the purchase of PhotoPass. Even with that, the promotion is still a deal and a savings - especially if you have a combination of four actual and Disney adults in a Value room. The QSDP is what, $32.99 per night? That's $131.96; the room for the nights I picked, with tax, is $113 per night.
The DDP is $47.99 and Value guests need to pay $10 each per night to upgrade? So they're at $153, while getting DDP credits worth $191.96 per night. Looks like a deal to me .

 

[mom2rtk]

You may not be aware, but the current 'dining plan free' promotion requires the purchase of PhotoPass.

Actually it requires the purchase of the $100 photobook. Many would have greatly preferred the photopass CD, but that was not the case.

Nobody knows if the next offering of free dining will have the same stipulation. The latest free dining was actually the second offering of free dining during that late August through September timeframe. It is still possible they only added the book requirement to differentiate it from that first offering last year (that had to be booked by 12/20).

But I'm afraid I've lost track of how this relates to the monorail. Maybe the proceeds are being put toward purchase of a new monorail for Disney???

 

[Wadecool]

Actually it requires the purchase of the $100 photobook. Many would have greatly preferred the photopass CD, but that was not the case.

Nobody knows if the next offering of free dining will have the same stipulation. The latest free dining was actually the second offering of free dining during that late August through September timeframe. It is still possible they only added the book requirement to differentiate it from that first offering last year (that had to be booked by 12/20).

But I'm afraid I've lost track of how this relates to the monorail. Maybe the proceeds are being put toward purchase of a new monorail for Disney???

That would have to be it, wouldn't it?

 

[nrpofp]

I beg to differ...

I agree. What company does anything that is not for profit. I can't blame them I would do the same if I owned a business,but at some point cutbacks in quality will hurt a company. Disney is walking a fine line.

 

[umichigan10]

Well based on trying to get an ADR, just as popular as Le Cellier.

was this before or after they switched to just dinner?

 

[racefanof88]

Five nights at AS Music (Sports didn't come up as an option) 8/28-9/2, same three people, six day base tickets:
Room only $565 + tickets $773.19 = $1,338.19
QSDP included $1,347.74
DDP included $1,512.74
QSDP extra $1,866.49
DDP extra $2,031.49

You may not be aware, but the current 'dining plan free' promotion requires the purchase of PhotoPass. Even with that, the promotion is still a deal and a savings - especially if you have a combination of four actual and Disney adults in a Value room. The QSDP is what, $32.99 per night? That's $131.96; the room for the nights I picked, with tax, is $113 per night.
The DDP is $47.99 and Value guests need to pay $10 each per night to upgrade? So they're at $153, while getting DDP credits worth $191.96 per night. Looks like a deal to me .

The difference in our pricing is most likely due to the fact I used a 7 night model and you used 5. Either way, the cost is high and 4 of the 7 nights would be either EMHs or MNSSHP at MK and Epcot. Without the monorail taking me back to the TTC I would not pay the extra to go to the party nor would I stay in the park and spend money during EMH. On my December trip it is the same thing, EMHs and MVMCP 4 of the 7 nights we will be there.

 

[Planogirl]

All companies want to make profit or else they wouldn't exist. However a customer oriented business shouldn't be obvious about it. A good business appears to put the customer first and profit almost seems to be a sideline to making that customer happy. Making it so obvious that it's all about profit is rather unimpressive to put it mildly.

 

[bicker]

Again, I have no idea what you're arguing about. I certainly have not said anything about Disney having more rooms available, making less money, etc. as a result of this change.

First: Keep in mind that you're not the only person supporting your perspective on this thread. If you have an objection to how others are supporting your point-of-view, then show that clear-headedness by telling those folks that their arguments are wrong, even though they agree with your conclusion.

Second: You're justifying your criticisms by casting baseless aspersions on Disney. If you stop casting baseless assertions, no one would be able to "bicker" with you. Note that I haven't posted replies to messages like this one:

Bottom line: THIS STINKS!!!!!!!!!!!
I am really upset about this...

Do you see the difference between the context you're posting your comments within, and the context that BLTLDZ posted comments within?

 

[bicker]

Does anyone think there is any hope to get some of the lost magic back?
Or do you think Disney is really going down the slope?

Remarkably Disney ascends and descends at the same time. As a matter of fact, most of the time, every one and every thing works that way. Here in this thread, you are being buffeted by knee-jerk vitriol, myopically focused solely on this one thing, that is a disappointment. In other threads, we're talking about the new mine train roller coaster being built, and people are still talking about how great the comparatively new attraction TSM is. I'm still amazed that they built Expedition Everest, but I guess I have a longer memory than most people.

The shame of it is that many folks choose to give far more air-play to their anger and upset, and allow it to overwhelm even far greater joy. Even here in this thread, some folks are allowing the curtailment of a few hours of monorail service to seem like "no monorail" and reacting according to that gross distortion of perception.

To answer your question, though, you need to realize where the magic actually was - where it was lost from - inside you. Disney paves roads, and builds buildings and big toys. You play with them. You make the magic. But only if you want to - only if you allow yourself to. If you choose to allow minor annoyances overwhelm your ability to enjoy the rest of the great things that already are there, and blind you to all the improvements being offered each year, then the magic will be gone from within you - you are "going down the slope".

 

[bicker]

Disney should study why the reaction to this has been so logically inappropriate and disproportionally passionate.

First of all, there is no reason to think that there has been any significant negative reaction to this. The negative reaction that you see, that is shaping your perception of it being so large, is limited in scope - very limited in scope - and most likely well within the "insignificant" range. However, to see that, you need to measure things against Disney's objectives (long-term shareholder value) rather than against your own (how happy you personally feel inside).

A good portion of the message board communities seem to have realized all at once that we are not a favored demographic.

No, not "all at once". Many of us realized it as early as the 1980s; and while the nature of everything online has changed since then, the changes didn't ever make the folks who regularly participate in WDW-related discussions any more significant; all that has happened is that the reasons for a determination of insignificance changed over time.

Am I the only one thinking that maybe before embarking on the huge Fantasyland Expansion, maybe they should have considered replacing some monorails?

I doubt you're the only one, but I'll be happy to lead up the charge against your perspective. Fantasyland is many times more important than the monorail to start with, and the Fantasyland expansion is almost surely going to pay-off, for Disney and for its guests, more than spending a similar amount of money on the monorail.

It doesnt matter what issue comes up, I could find this response pretty much verbatim every time Disney cuts something else. I would think at some point though, there has to be an effect that is felt.

Do you realize that you've outlined a self-fulfilling prophesy? Read the words your wrote... they basically say that no matter what, if anything is ever taken away, then eventually there will be nothing. There is no consideration within what you've written for the fact that while things are taken away other things are added, nor for the difference between taking away things of different importances. By blurring the line between Fantasyland and monorails, as mom2rtk did, it is impossible to see the reality of the situation.

As to other business, I dont see too many charging more and giving less (quite the opposite in this economy).

Then you're not paying attention. Regardless, add back in reality, that Disney is adding and subtracting at the same time, and you'll see that it is just like every other top-notch entertainment enterprise, in that regard.

I blame a downward trend that can be traced back to current management taking over. Seems like they have made a lot of decisions that have resulted in someone needing to pull out said response to back them up.

Whatever are you talking about? While it is true that Michael Eisner led Disney with far more vision that fostered in fans a far greater feeling of the magic, not that much has changed. Bob Iger needs to be viewed as a bridge, from Eisner to the next visionary. He or she is coming. Iger is being a good steward in the meantime.

 

[bicker]

We all have different priorities and some of you saying that this is no big deal doesn't mean that that is true for everyone.

Precisely right. Disney can't play to every single sensibility. As a matter of fact, many of the most upset guests almost surely fall into a category of customer that a lot of customers don't believe even exists, i.e., the customers not worth serving. It's always a shock when you're faced with the prospect of being "fired" by a service provider, instead of things working the other way around, but business is a two-way street: Just like you want to make every one of your leisure dollars count, the companies you do business with want to spend their limited, available capital in the way that serves their owners the most.

I could deal with shortened hours but I can't blame those who are unhappy either.

Yes, I cannot blame people for being unhappy.

I can't help but notice WDW wait until BLT was pretty much sold out cutting down the evening monorail service. Coincidence?

No, because (1) Guests can walk from BLT to MK, and (2) They didn't wait until after most owners bought into GFV.