Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[3prettyprincesses]

If you want to send any concerns regarding this change, the email address to write to is wdw.guest.communication@disneyworld.com. If it concerns you this much, here is the way you can voice your opinion and let Disney know how you feel!

Some of us have already and only recieved a standard, blanket reply.

I guess I don't pay enough attention to the reasons why things are done. If something is done, I either choose to accept it, whine to others about it or actually take time to write to complain about it.

I don't think we're whining. We're discussing. And some of us have already written Disney with our concerns. Just because we don't agree with your perception of recent changes, doesn't make us whiners. I think alot of us have valid concerns. Talking it through is part of what makes this discussion board interesting and helpful.

 

[mom2rtk]

I guess I don't pay enough attention to the reasons why things are done. If something is done, I either choose to accept it, whine to others about it or actually take time to write to complain about it.

How do we know that EMH characters aren't going for lack of demand? Late at night, I've seen no lines for the characters to the point where they are a lot of fun as they have time to goof off in character or spend a lot of time with guests. I've never tried to see a character during EMH itself, so I would have no idea if there is demand for this or not. It seems plausible to me.

With respect to Flynn, again it seems plausible as I've heard that the line is horribly long. When we were there in June, I saw this very long line near the castle and asked what they were waiting for and someone told me. I just thought -- thank goodness for boys!

And as I said in my original post, I do believe that the change in monorail closing times was handled very poorly by PR. I just don't see a long list of "BS moves" by Disney that some others state exist. I'm not doubting it, I just want to know what these "facts" are that portend the demise of Disney as we know it.

I can't say overall if for some reason people just stopped visiting characters during EMH. We did one PM EMH a couple years ago, but do the AM one at the MK every time we're there. During that PM EMH, the lines stayed HORRENDOUOSLY long all night for the characters. And the lines at the AM EMH have always been pretty consistent too.

I'm not saying they don't have the right to remove things. Just don't tell me it's due to lack of demand if it's not. And no, I don't know that's a fact, but my own experience makes me think differently.

As for the Flynn move, from what I hear, the line is moving better now. But it would be moving better also if they kept him but made the other changes, like making them available nearly consistently instead of in the limited number of sets they had. Or it would have been better if they had made them available in another park for a traditional meet and greet, instead of making the one limited interactive meet and greet the only way to find them. Out of a variety of options, they chose the one that cut their costs as well.

This isn't the place for a debate on the Tangled situation. What I'm saying is that in my opinion, they have a history of making changes to save money, but blaming something other than budget issues. So that makes me skeptical on this issue as well. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[umichigan10]

Agreed. I think it is a round about way for Disney to cut out EMH and make it look like an attendance problem, when there is no reliable transportation out of the parks, after EMH, then less people will go. While some say the boats and buses will be there, they are horrible when the monorail is running, and the boats can not run during bad weather .

Here are a few more cuts over time:
First cut to DDP was no appetizer or tip but the price increased.
New cuts cut out one snack from Quick Service plan, while price stayed the same, you get less for your $$ thus a price increase
On specific days there was Character Caravan at Disney resorts, no more
After 10 pm DME will NOT deliver your luggage to your resort, you have to get it yourself.
Fantasmic shows cut(until recently)
Pleasure Island gone completely
Resort Package Delivery Service Cut
Resort Valet Parking Fees Implemented
Garden Grill no longer serves breakfast or lunch

I could go on but I will leave it there.

In defense to your last point, how popular was the Garden Grill anyways?

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Does it matter how long that perk has been offered? The point is that Disney tauts it as a reason to stay at one of their hotels, an extra benefit. Which I am sure most certainly is built into the price of the hotel rooms. If they remove EMH, it smacks of yet another cost cutting measure. Less being offered but prices still rising.

I too enjoy the hard ticket parties and have no problem paying for it. I expect it since it's considered "extra". But Disney sure goes to alot of trouble advertising the benefits for staying onsite which includes EMH.

My feeling is that they did a serious cost analysis of evening EMH and came to the conclusion that it's costing them more then they're making off of it. The recent surveys seems to indicate they want to test the waters. So they start saying the monorail needs maintenance and now they "have" to close an hour after the parks close in order to address it. Which in turn will make it more incovienent to return to your hotel afterward and might make you second guess doing EMH in the future. This paves the way for Disney to say that since attendance is so low for EMH, they can just eliminate it altogether (at least the evening one). Add in the bonus of Disney not having to run their monorails as long and well, they're killing two birds with one stone.

With respect to bolded. I believe it does matter as it shows that Disney is constantly adding and removing things over the years. Looking at things in a vacuum, it's easy to only see the negative. Disney has also added a lot over the years. The only constant in the equation is change.

If you don't like the changes, that's fine. If one thinks that Disney has taken away more than they have added to the point there is no value, that person will stop going to Disney.

But, instead of looking at it in a vacuum, could one assume that perhaps they cut some costs in one place to add something somewhere else in order to get a better return. Sometimes they do this, other times they probably just cut costs. We just don't know.

Anytime there is a takeaway, there will be complaints. When they add something new, you don't often see a thread with over 1,200 posts in less than a week touting how wonderful Disney is to add such and such. But I could be wrong, some of the free dining threads are quite long!

 

[GadgetRick]

I have spent a lot of time on the DCL boards the past couple of years and not on the WDW board until planning our most recent vacation (which BTW was the best WDW vacation we've had since our first trip with the kids in 2001). Could you enlighten me on these "facts" where Disney pulls this kind of BS over recent years?

Honestly, I--and others--have listed things in many other areas, I even made a quick list in this thread. You can go look those up if you'd like to as it's not a secret about things they've taken away over the years.

 

[maxiesmom]

Here are a few more cuts over time:
First cut to DDP was no appetizer or tip but the price increased.
New cuts cut out one snack from Quick Service plan, while price stayed the same, you get less for your $$ thus a price increase
On specific days there was Character Caravan at Disney resorts, no more
After 10 pm DME will NOT deliver your luggage to your resort, you have to get it yourself.
Fantasmic shows cut(until recently)
Pleasure Island gone completely
Resort Package Delivery Service Cut
Resort Valet Parking Fees Implemented
Garden Grill no longer serves breakfast or lunch

I could go on but I will leave it there.

A couple of comments on your list of cuts. The Character Caravan was a short lived idea that bombed. They had cut the number of characters in the parks to support the caravan, and then realized people wanted to see the characters in the parks. Not a cut, but a realization that it was not a good idea.

Second, there is still resort package delivery. You just have to pick up your stuff at your resort's gift shop, it doesn't come to your room. And that may be in part to limit the number of people going in and out of your room. Many people don't even like houskeeping entering, let alone some random person to deliver a pakage.

I know too that having an appetizer on the dining plan was a waste of food for many people. I'm still stuffed just having an entree and dessert. Though I think it would be nice if you could enclude the appetizer for a small extra fee, say $4 a day.

And you yourself admit that something you have listed as a cut (Fantasmic) has been added back on. Disney has made some cuts, but there is no need to overstate the situation.

 

[TLSnell1981]

But all Disney does is send you back a form letter response and don't answer your specific questions. And even if they do answer them, I don't believe it anyway. It's better to inform others on bulletin boards that Disney is an untrustworthy capitalistic pig of a company.

Seriously, thanks for the link. I've suggested the same thing myself a couple of times on this thread only be told to mind my manners rather than infer it can't be discussed.

All you will get is Disney doublespeak. Oh, and if you are really lucky...a condescending phone call from Guest Satisfaction.

 

[GadgetRick]

I'm not trying to be an apologist, but pointing out that there are two sides to most everything. We were frustrated when Disney removed the "free" buttons and "free" pictures from the hard-party events several years ago. We enjoyed those small perks. I'm sure others didn't miss these items and didn't care one way or the other that they were removed as a cost-cutting measure.

Of course there are two sides to everything. However, when you are giving something (e.g. character meet/greets during EMH), then you take them away, why should anyone feel anything but cheated? Whether they had them during E-ticket nights or not is irrelevant because it's not the same thing. E-ticket nights went away, EMH nights came in. Same concept--let people stay in the parks longer if they're staying on property--but different things with different expectations set by Disney.

You know, sometimes companies--like Disney--actually do make decisions to the detriment of their customers so they can make extra money from time to time...

 

[GadgetRick]

If they do eliminate evening EMH, can someone remember what year this perk was added? I seem to recall that it was somewhere around 2004 give or take a year or so. Just curious to see how long this perk would have lasted.

If they do eliminate it, I hope they add more hard ticket events such as the E-ticket nights or even PPP. That would be a net positive for us and I'm sure others would see it as a net negative.

Well, funny you should mention this as one of my major issues with Disney over the last few years is the number of hard ticket events in the parks during various holidays. The parties have really grown into a money grab. Let's close the park at 7:00 and, if they want to stay, they have to fork over extra money. Now, with the E-ticket nights, this wasn't as bad since the tickets were only like $12 or something like that and the park didn't close at 7:00. However, the parties are now well over $40 the last time I checked. So, for a family of 4, I'm looking at an additional $160 to go to MK after 7:00 on many nights during holidays (even Fridays).

So, yes, I'd think of that as a net negative. I'd still be paying the same amount for my regular ticket as everyone else but wouldn't be able to enjoy the park after 7:00 for a good number of nights during a trip (if I were there for a week).

 

[GadgetRick]

I guess I don't pay enough attention to the reasons why things are done. If something is done, I either choose to accept it, whine to others about it or actually take time to write to complain about it.

How do we know that EMH characters aren't going for lack of demand? Late at night, I've seen no lines for the characters to the point where they are a lot of fun as they have time to goof off in character or spend a lot of time with guests. I've never tried to see a character during EMH itself, so I would have no idea if there is demand for this or not. It seems plausible to me.

With respect to Flynn, again it seems plausible as I've heard that the line is horribly long. When we were there in June, I saw this very long line near the castle and asked what they were waiting for and someone told me. I just thought -- thank goodness for boys!

And as I said in my original post, I do believe that the change in monorail closing times was handled very poorly by PR. I just don't see a long list of "BS moves" by Disney that some others state exist. I'm not doubting it, I just want to know what these "facts" are that portend the demise of Disney as we know it.

Well you'll never believe they're pulling your leg about anything then...

 

[BrerRabbit1114]

Perhaps they will provide courtesy wheel chairs like they have at the parking lots to tranport people who rent wheel chairs at the park for the walk to the Contemporary?

That would be a possibility, but I still like the idea of golf carts to transport handicap/asthma people etc.

 

[maxiesmom]

Well, funny you should mention this as one of my major issues with Disney over the last few years is the number of hard ticket events in the parks during various holidays. The parties have really grown into a money grab. Let's close the park at 7:00 and, if they want to stay, they have to fork over extra money. Now, with the E-ticket nights, this wasn't as bad since the tickets were only like $12 or something like that and the park didn't close at 7:00. However, the parties are now well over $40 the last time I checked. So, for a family of 4, I'm looking at an additional $160 to go to MK after 7:00 on many nights during holidays (even Fridays).

So, yes, I'd think of that as a net negative. I'd still be paying the same amount for my regular ticket as everyone else but wouldn't be able to enjoy the park after 7:00 for a good number of nights during a trip (if I were there for a week).

However if you usually go to the parks in the fall, before they had the parties they closed the parks much earlier than midnight. So you are really not loosing out on much park time by them having the parties, maybe an hour. However if you pay for a party you are gaining a lot, imho. I don't mind them charging me more for having the parks open a lot later. It costs them more to stay open later.

When I first started going to WDW around 15 years ago, if you wanted to see fireworks you had to go to Epcot. They just didn't have them on a nightly basis at the Magic Kingdom. So Disney has added a lot too.

 

[Experiment_626]

The EMH characters are going because of "lack of demand"

But ... is it possible that the demand really was low enough that this decision made sense? I realize that if it is something you want that is being cut, it makes it frustrating and annoying, but that doesn't mean the demand wasn't low. And I don't go by complaints here -- you can find a decently large number of people here on these boards who will complain about almost anything, but we hardly constitute a representative sample, even taking the entire membership as a whole.

I don't know ... none of this makes much sense to me -- from either side of the argument. The idea that this relatively small amount of additional downtime for the monorails will make a big difference in maintenance seems questionable to me, no matter how loud some assert that it is the case. And yet I cannot say for sure that reaction of mine is correct. At the same time, I cannot fathom that Disney would really want to eliminate evening EMH. It isn't just a freebie -- it is something Disney implemented specifically to drive hotel bookings on property. While cutting it would certainly mean a cost savings for Disney in terms of park operations, if that results in a reduction of "heads in beds" that offsets what they save or even possibly surpasses that savings, then it would make no sense -- and I don't for a second believe that Disney executives don't know that. I know some people here want to believe that TPTB are blithering idiots, but I don't buy that either.

It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me from any angle. Maybe they don't want to eliminate evening EMH but reduce the guest load. Some people probably stay on-property to get that benefit but don't wind up actually using it much while they're there. If the number of people using it were reduced, it cold still be touted as a benefit while also saving the company some money, if only because staffing of cast members during EMH could be reduced. Really, if they wanted to save money on EMH and want to cite reduced demand for doing so, it seems to me that morning EMH would be a more ripe target -- it attracts far smaller crowds (which is, of course, one of the reason those who do attend like it so much). But they aren't talking (so far) about changing the monorail system's morning hours.

Further, I can't see that Disney is just not willing to spend money on the parks. That flies in the face of the ongoing Fantasyland expansion, the new Star Tours -- even a show like The Magic, the Memories and You. All of those things cost money (loads of it, in most cases), and the latter could even be seen as keeping people out of shops and restaurants at a time when they might otherwise visit them.

I just cannot see why this is being done -- from either side of the fence. That being said, I don't like to jump to the conclusion that people are lying to me just because they've made a decision I don't particularly like, especially when I lack hard evidence to support such a view -- and the fact that some guests are angry about the decision is not hard evidence. I think people tend to believe that others think as they do, which always makes me wonder about cynical and pessimistic people, and those who presume dishonesty in others as an initial reaction. So, for now, I'll accept the explanation that maintenance is the primary motivation behind this. That said, I would like to hear a more thorough explanation of how this aids the quest to keep the monorail system running in nominal condition. Whether we'll actually get that is another question -- and Disney certainly has no obligation to provide such a thing, although I hope they will.

Scott

 

[TLSnell1981]

And you yourself admit that something you have listed as a cut (Fantasmic) has been added back on. Disney has made some cuts, but there is no need to overstate the situation.

Fantasmic goes back to twice weekly on October 1st.

 

[GadgetRick]

Seriously, thanks for the link. I've suggested the same thing myself a couple of times on this thread only be told to mind my manners rather than infer it can't be discussed.

It's funny, people make the assumption that many of us aren't writing Disney to tell them how unhappy we are about things. Many of us are, in fact, writing them to tell them. I have many times over the years.

Also, Disney watches boards like this as well as other places where people would discuss their product(s). So, writing here is not the worst thing in the world. According to many people, we should all just complain to Disney or shut up about it.

Having been a product manager in the past, I can tell you, not enough people do write to complain about things. However, I also know many product managers (and others in corporations) look at boards like these to find out what people really think about their company and their product(s). So to imply that people should just keep quiet about things they believe are wrong is, well, just wrong. Just because something may not bother or affect you, doesn't mean it will not bother/affect others (and vice versa).

 

[GadgetRick]

Agreed. I think it is a round about way for Disney to cut out EMH and make it look like an attendance problem, when there is no reliable transportation out of the parks, after EMH, then less people will go. While some say the boats and buses will be there, they are horrible when the monorail is running, and the boats can not run during bad weather .

Here are a few more cuts over time:
First cut to DDP was no appetizer or tip but the price increased.
New cuts cut out one snack from Quick Service plan, while price stayed the same, you get less for your $$ thus a price increase
On specific days there was Character Caravan at Disney resorts, no more
After 10 pm DME will NOT deliver your luggage to your resort, you have to get it yourself.
Fantasmic shows cut(until recently)
Pleasure Island gone completely
Resort Package Delivery Service Cut
Resort Valet Parking Fees Implemented
Garden Grill no longer serves breakfast or lunch

I could go on but I will leave it there.

But remember, these are all positive. I mean, Disney would never do something which benefits them to the detriment of their guests....

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Agreed. I think it is a round about way for Disney to cut out EMH and make it look like an attendance problem, when there is no reliable transportation out of the parks, after EMH, then less people will go. While some say the boats and buses will be there, they are horrible when the monorail is running, and the boats can not run during bad weather .

Here are a few more cuts over time:
First cut to DDP was no appetizer or tip but the price increased.
New cuts cut out one snack from Quick Service plan, while price stayed the same, you get less for your $$ thus a price increase
On specific days there was Character Caravan at Disney resorts, no more
After 10 pm DME will NOT deliver your luggage to your resort, you have to get it yourself.
Fantasmic shows cut(until recently)
Pleasure Island gone completely
Resort Package Delivery Service Cut
Resort Valet Parking Fees Implemented
Garden Grill no longer serves breakfast or lunch

I could go on but I will leave it there.

During the same time, there were also additions such as free evening EMH, free DME, free dining promotions, new attractions, attraction rehabs, resort rehabs, new character meals added, new shows, etc.

I don't mean to pick on your list, as I am sure that some of these items were very frustrating. But of the list, only ONE item affects our family. We don't use DME and we've never had a dining package. We find it less expensive to pay OOP as we can't travel during free dining periods. Personally, I wish they'd do away with the DDP, but that's for another thread.

The one item that was a cut that affected us was the resort package delivery service cuts. However, they still offer this perk. They just no longer deliver it to your room. Instead, you have to pick it up at the gift shop at your resort. Still a convenience, just not as great a convenience as in the past.

Does this mean that Disney has ever stopped something that I wish they had continued? Of course. I really miss the Hunchback show at DHS. Why did they get rid of that awesome show? And I'm really trying to think of other cutbacks, but I typically don't focus on the negative when it comes to Disney as it's our escape from reality when on vacation, so I'm having a hard time thinking of other items right now. I'm sure I've got some.

Some of us have already and only recieved a standard, blanket reply.



I don't think we're whining. We're discussing. And some of us have already written Disney with our concerns. Just because we don't agree with your perception of recent changes, doesn't make us whiners. I think alot of us have valid concerns. Talking it through is part of what makes this discussion board interesting and helpful.

Sorry, I was talking about me personally and not others. I used the words ME and I in that post. I don't mind if someone calls me out and says I'm whining when I'm expressing my frustration. Sometimes that's what it is. I've been called ungrateful, silly and even selfish on these boards when I've posted complaints in the past. I also get reminded about all those people who never get to visit WDW or take a cruise in their life? Whining is actually a complement when I get it.

And talking it through is hearing both sides too.

 

[GadgetRick]

A couple of comments on your list of cuts. The Character Caravan was a short lived idea that bombed. They had cut the number of characters in the parks to support the caravan, and then realized people wanted to see the characters in the parks. Not a cut, but a realization that it was not a good idea.

Second, there is still resort package delivery. You just have to pick up your stuff at your resort's gift shop, it doesn't come to your room. And that may be in part to limit the number of people going in and out of your room. Many people don't even like houskeeping entering, let alone some random person to deliver a pakage.

I know too that having an appetizer on the dining plan was a waste of food for many people. I'm still stuffed just having an entree and dessert. Though I think it would be nice if you could enclude the appetizer for a small extra fee, say $4 a day.

And you yourself admit that something you have listed as a cut (Fantasmic) has been added back on. Disney has made some cuts, but there is no need to overstate the situation.

No offense, but this response is exactly what I'm talking about how some people will never see Disney doing something for profit. I mean, you're going to try and make the excuse that package delivery to your room was changed (at least in part) because people complained about people going into a room!!?? That's quite a stretch.

And you're also defending the lack of appetizers on the DP because it's a waste of food? Great, then lower the price and take the appetizer away. Did they do that? Nope, they took it away and raised the price and made you pay the tip separately now.

There are many other things which have been taken away over the (recent) years which smells of cost-cutting. Again, whether it bothers someone is one thing, but please don't try to make Disney something they aren't. They're in this to make money, I'm cool with that. However, as I've said many times in the past, it doesn't mean I have to like the cuts they make....

 

[CR Resort Fan 4 Life]

I'm sure you're using much more than that in WDW which others don't use. Pick an attraction--any attraction--you go on regularly and there are plenty of people who don't ride it.

I don't agree with that because guests don't pay anything extra for the attractions, the way some pay for their resorts and others pay less depending on the category. Once we are all in the Theme Parks everything in my view is 100% equal.

 

[GadgetRick]

However if you usually go to the parks in the fall, before they had the parties they closed the parks much earlier than midnight. So you are really not loosing out on much park time by them having the parties, maybe an hour. However if you pay for a party you are gaining a lot, imho. I don't mind them charging me more for having the parks open a lot later. It costs them more to stay open later.

When I first started going to WDW around 15 years ago, if you wanted to see fireworks you had to go to Epcot. They just didn't have them on a nightly basis at the Magic Kingdom. So Disney has added a lot too.

They parks used to close at 9-10 (can't remember exactly what time) during the week and later on the weekends (like 11:00 Friday included). With the parties it's closed at 7:00 unless you want to pay and that includes a lot of Friday nights as well.

And what, exactly, am I gaining by paying for the party? Well, when they started them it was great, low crowds, a free photo of the family, lots of candy (for MNSSHP) and lots of hot chocolate and cookies (MVMCP). Now, crowds worse than during the day (at times), no free photos and a lot less candy/hot chocolate/cookies. I'd agree with you about gaining a lot 6 or 7 years ago but no longer. We used to go to them all of the time, now I won't waste my money or my time with it.

They also used to be special as there weren't a lot of them. Now they have 3 or 4 a week!!! If this isn't a money grab then I don't know what is...