Mass shooting at Fort Hood- Killeen

[Aisling]

yeah, all those posts with those pesky facts.
The nerve.

Facts upset some people, for whatever reason(s). But denying them or even worse, censoring them, is very unhealthy.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

FYI the narrator in Moby Dick was Ishmael.....

Cho Seung-Hui wrote 'Ismael Ax' on his arm in red ink before killing 32 people

The phrase comes from the Koran. The whole sentence is this "ismail ax au milieu" - which translates to "Ismail is the one in the center."
refering to how Abraham was to sacrifice his son ( Ismael in the Koran ) , he used an ax.

FTR--I did not know that.

FTR--I ONLY brought him up b/c he had a very troubled passed with many signs missed and in the initial reporting they did try to paint a subtle sympathetic picture of him.

It didn't work.

But b/c this creature was in uniform, they want us to have sympathy for his horror.

Ummm...not just no, but HECK no!

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't give a rat's *** who this guy prayed to. He turned his back on those that he should have considered his family. This isn't about a mental breakdown or about your religious choice; this was deliberate murder. If he wanted to be a martyr for his cause he could have did it so much more publicly without taking anyone down with him. He gets no sympathy from me.

My thought exactly.

Those are just pesky facts ....

sorry if they get in the way.

We really do not know what this lunatic was thinking, and we really do not know if he used his religion to justify his murders. We do know that murder and "going postal" is not limited to Muslims.

The VA Tech Killer Seung-Hui Cho who wrote Ismail in red ink on his arm before killing 32 people. Ismail, the Islamic prophet.......

I realize you are trying to make a point and that you feel strongly about this but for each of these examples there are how many Muslims who are mortified that someone used their religion as an excuse to murder?

You want to be mad Scrubber? Well here is who I am furious with. Whoever dropped the ball that this guy was whacked. I cannot imagine that anyone though that he was fit to serve yet he was never tossed out on his ear, or questioned and disciplined for his statements. Crazies are not to be relied upon to recognize that they are crazy but there were plenty of people who interacted with this guy whose job it was to know that he was unbalanced and still he was a counselor to our troops.

I am not ready to paint every murderer who is in the Military with a bigoted brush but I feel that this man is a murderer. I am beyond angry with him but I also think that there needs to be some sort of action concerning his superiors, They did not pull that trigger but they bear responsibility for allowing him access to servicemen and women. And they were going to deploy him??????

 

[bumbershoot]

I feel so sad for everyone involved. Obviously for the people who died or were "only" injured, their families, those who had to see all of this (and their families), and also his family, and lastly, whatever must have been going on in his mind BEFORE he did it, to bring him to it. I imagine that it must have been a horror-zone (nothing compared to what he *caused* of course) in his mind to cause a psychiatrist to ignore all his training, not seek out help, and continue forth, especially after hearing stories of death and destruction from his patients.

And to clarify, I'm never sad for the person after they do something awful, but BEFORE they do it; I feel bad for whatever must have been going on in their heads. And no, even my husband doesn't know how I can compartmentalize like that, but I do it all the same.

Hasan could claim he did this to impress Jodi Foster...should we string up Jodi Foster?

Seriously good point.

This is no way about religion or nationality. This is purely about loyalty and knowing what is right or wrong.

Agreed.

No one forced this guy to join the service. He was certainly more than happy to take a small fortune from the US government to fund his medical school education. But when the government expected him to carry out his end of the deal, he wasn't so interested in serving "his" country any longer. So he'll bleed the government dry to pay for med school, and then say, "So long, suckers...."?

What I read said that he joined right out of high school. He is now 39. So obviously he did serve for something along the lines of 20 years. He'd been carrying out his end of the deal by being in the service. I don't think what you're saying is fair (which then will make people say that what he did is not fair, and of course it wasn't, but that doesn't mean we need to be unfair right back). The articles have also said that he was willing to pay back the military for his schooling; not quite "so long suckers". Also, not quite something the military would agree to (though can you imagine if it were? interesting way to supplement the budget) and if I know that HE should have known it...

Reports are saying ...

Reports can say all sorts of things in these early days.

I don't buy the "he was bullied" line of defense his relatives are already trying to sell. Their pathetic attempts to portray him as a victim are an insult to those he murdered.

Explanations aren't always excuses. Everything I've read says that his family is horrified by his actions. I think that, just like in most cases, reporters ask questions ("what had he told you in recent months", "did he have any complaints", "can you think of any reasons he might have had?" etc) and the relatives are answering those questions. Reporters never report the questions they ask, of course, just what was said.

And here we have a situation where the dude came out alive, where the "why did you do this awful sickening thing" questions might actually be answered! Let's not just ignore the reasons he might have had, just because we feel they are excuses, even if the answers are along those lines.


If I hear, "He was upset at being sent to Iraq" one more time, I'll scream. Who IS jumping up and down with JOY at being sent to Iraq? I'd hazard a guess that a huge percentage of those being deployed to Iraq are upset, sad, scared, filled with dread, worried, etc. But God bless them, they do their duty and don't go around shooting their fellow soldiers. They do what they have to do. They deserved far better than they got from this coward.

Of course they deserved better. Absolutely.

And of course most people who are in the military go where they are told. It's what you do.

This guy was a psychiatrist. He heard first-hand reports of what it has been like. That's gotta mess with a person. And obviously (to me at least, because his actions show that something was "off" in his head) he wasn't taking care of his own mental health while taking care of others, and it got to him in a way it might not get to another.

If it turns out that the very act of counseling those who had been there was indeed part of what was behind his twisted reasoning for this, then maybe it can help the military out. It could help them help those that are supposed to help the others.

Soldiers who witnessed the shooting rampage at Fort Hood that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted “Allahu Akbar!” before opening fire, the base commander said Friday.

JEFF CARLTON, Associated Press

I feel so bad for those who were right there.

I also find it amazing that so many Arabic language speakers were nearby. If someone yelled that in my hearing, I would absolutely NOT know what they had said, let alone what it meant in English.

Anyways, yeah...this guy had never been deployed before and was NOW saying he was a concientious objector. I GET not wanting to get deployed, but I do NOT get Killing a bunch of people because you are scared to be deployed!!!!!

The whole thing just makes me sick.

Makes me sick too. And nope, it makes no sense to kill people because you don't want to kill people. Then again, look at the "if I can't have custody of my kid I'll kill my kid and myself" people...it makes NO sense. But people do it. So rotten.

I haven't seen anything saying that he was actually a c.objector... But as one, I do know that it certainly doesn't keep you from being sent to a war zone! You'll just be given a desk job at the front, instead of being a sniper (or whatnot).

Then again, what other job do you sign up for as a teenager and are not allowed to leave as an almost 40 year old??? I can't even imagine. My brother was ready to leave the AF after 3 years but had to stick it out until his 4th was done...

No offense to mental health professionals--but that field is not immune to psychological challenges.

I had a friend who went for her Masters in that field and she said you would be amazed.

Actually, I've heard (and again no offense to mental health professionals) that a lot of people who go into the field have some sort of background with dealing with mental health issues in their own lives (either with family members or themselves) and go into it for that exact reason.

Agreed with both. The whole "physician heal thyself" thing. I myself became a chiro because of the good chiropractic had done for my own body. A counselor once helped me a great deal, so I could imagine someone wanting to help others as they were once helped...but just like I let my spinal health go while in practice, because I was too busy, I imagine it's easy to let one's counseling sessions go when in practice as a psychiatrist...



It's all so sad. The one tiny thing is that he's alive, and there might be answers. I would say that's unique, except it seems the Orlando guy is alive and in custody as well. I would think that answers are better than no answers, if such a tragic situation "has to" happen.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Ok Enough, 12 people are dead, many wounded and we don't honestly have any idea why this soldier snapped. We are NOT going to have a racial debate or start bashing people on these boards. We don't have a debate board and if you want to debate this take it somewhere else.
The next post I see on this from EITHER side will result in action
Thank you in advance for your cooperation

 

[Magic Mom]

I f


It's all so sad. The one tiny thing is that he's alive, and there might be answers. I would say that's unique, except it seems the Orlando guy is alive and in custody as well. I would think that answers are better than no answers, if such a tragic situation "has to" happen.

There won't be any answers. Nothing he could say could explain or make sense of what he did to his fellow Soldiers. He is an animal and deserves to be treated like one. I hope he rots in hell.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It's all so sad. The one tiny thing is that he's alive, and there might be answers. I would say that's unique, except it seems the Orlando guy is alive and in custody as well. I would think that answers are better than no answers, if such a tragic situation "has to" happen.

I think that was a revenge shooting--an "I'll get even with you" kind of deal.

He is quoted as stating when being escorted into the police station, "They left me to rot".

It is also reported that he had a lot of debt and worked at Subway.

He is reported as being terminated after 1 year for not being up to company standard.

I think it was revenge to affect those he personally worked with.

Not sure about the Fort Hood shooting.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Ok Enough, 12 people are dead, many wounded and we don't honestly have any idea why this soldier snapped. We are NOT going to have a racial debate or start bashing people on these boards. We don't have a debate board and if you want to debate this take it somewhere else.
The next post I see on this from EITHER side will result in action
Thank you in advance for your cooperation

I wish there was a way to post these warnings on the front page.

I think it will get missed.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I'm really sorry to learn about Ft. Hood. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. Hard to believe it happened on our largest installation. There are a lot of unknowns but I will say I hope this horrible, tragic incident will lead to strengthening of safety measures. I don't know what avenue should be pursued. It's an awful wake up call.

I'm appalled at the media. There has been a lot of speculation and innuendo. I heard the media was saying it was post-traumatic stress syndrome, but the shooter hadn't been deployed. I think he has only been to MD and TX? Our media is part of the problem. No responsibility in reporting anymore.

 

[Kim&Chris]

I'm appalled at the media. There has been a lot of speculation and innuendo. I heard the media was saying it was post-traumatic stress syndrome, but the shooter hadn't been deployed. I think he has only been to MD and TX? Our media is part of the problem. No responsibility in reporting anymore.

I could not agree more. They are a BIG part of the problem.

 

[DancingBear]

There's nothing in the rants of Ho to indicate he was a muslim or motivated by anything in the Koran.

Investigators think "Ax Ishmael" is based on the biblical figure Ishmael, the son of Hagar, a maidservant to Sarah, and the prophet Abraham. Ishmael lived as an outcast, and his brother Isaac was favored. Writings that Cho left in his dorm room, sent to the Virginia Tech English Department and mailed to NBC reveal twisted references to religion as part of his identity....

Cho, 23, of Centreville, whose family was religious and had sought help for him from a Woodbridge church, repeatedly made religious references. He said that he had been "crucified" and that, as with Jesus, his actions would set people free. He called himself a "martyr" who would "sacrifice" his life. He wrote that he would go down in history as the "Jesus Christ of the Weak and Defenseless." He thought his actions would inspire others to fight back and get even....

Police have not discovered why he uses the word "Ax," but his writings suggest he identified with Ishmael. According to some religious scholars, Ishmael held his brothers in contempt, despised the rituals of society and considered himself to be free of social control.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/18/AR2007061801732.html?hpid=topnews

Remember Sgt. William J. Kreutzer Jr.? Eric Robert Rudolph? Charles Whitman? Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols? Nutcases are out there.

 

[DancingBear]

I like how the media is playing up the whole "he was harassed" nonsense.

Please share examples.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

I do not care what he was shouting and I don't care who he prays to. He could pray to little green men for all I care.

My issue is he killing his military family. There is no honor and loyalty in that. He should have remembered he was a United States Army Soldier first and foremost.

QFT. His motives are irrelevant. He is irrelevant. He should receive no press, no attention. He was a maniac that murdered in cold blood. Our attention, our efforts should be focused on the victims of his rampage, not him.

 

[Briarmom]

QFT. His motives are irrelevant. He is irrelevant. He should receive no press, no attention. He was a maniac that murdered in cold blood. Our attention, our efforts should be focused on the victims of his rampage, not him.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

I also find it amazing that so many Arabic language speakers were nearby. If someone yelled that in my hearing, I would absolutely NOT know what they had said, let alone what it meant in English.

I would have understood it, but only because I've heard it on several news reports in the past. Those nearby him may have understood it for the same reason (and some may have known the Arabic language.)

 

[LUVMYTINK]

QFT. His motives are irrelevant. He is irrelevant. He should receive no press, no attention. He was a maniac that murdered in cold blood. Our attention, our efforts should be focused on the victims of his rampage, not him.

I second that

God Bless them and their families

 

[Planogirl]

I don't agree that this guy should receive no attention. Experts need to figure out how to spot these people BEFORE they do these things. Ignoring him won't help anyone.

My thoughts go out to the victims and their families. After reading some of these comments I hope that there won't be more.

 

[dalt01]

I wish there was a way to post these warnings on the front page.

I think it will get missed.

in this kind of situation there should not have to be a warning.......................the anonymity of the boards doesnt keep people from looking at themselves in the mirror.......................and maybe being a bit ashamed of themselves.

 

[NotUrsula]

I would have understood it, but only because I've heard it on several news reports in the past. Those nearby him may have understood it for the same reason (and some may have known the Arabic language.)

I think that most soldiers who have ever been deployed to the Middle East know this phrase; and probably those who have not yet been deployed but are prepping for it. I imagine that it is part of the cultural briefing that they all have to go through.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I don't agree that this guy should receive no attention. Experts need to figure out how to spot these people BEFORE they do these things. Ignoring him won't help anyone.

My thoughts go out to the victims and their families. After reading some of these comments I hope that there won't be more.

Exactly. We need to find out all that we can from this situation.