LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Laketravis]

And this will be our 3rd trip in well under a year, the most we've ever visited in such a short period of time. I honestly think, that for every person who FP+ doesn't work for, there are many more that it does work for.

A potential issue with that is the "many more" may not be as profitable as the guests they replace. It's the high frequency guest that FP+ inherently works the best for, yet the high-frequency guest may be less beneficial to WDW in terms of financial impact than a first-time bewildered family who goes all in for their once-in-a-lifetime dream vacation and who may not be encouraged enough to return.

You've got AP's, right? I'm sure that's more cost effective for you than buying three different sets of park tickets in one year. I think we tend to spend less and (based on accrued experience) squeeze more out of each trip. We definitely aren't as profitable to Disney as we were in our early visits. Not because we are trying to sabotage a large corporation or stick it to the man but simply because we've learned the little tricks that save money.


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[NewmanFamily6]

Our family likes FP+ except that most of the parks have that stupid tier system. HS has limited ride options. Of course my kids want TSM & Rockin Rollercoaster. It's ridiculous that both aren't an option.

 

[cakebaker]

A potential issue with that is the "many more" may not be as profitable as the guests they replace. It's the high frequency guest that FP+ inherently works the best for, yet the high-frequency guest may be less beneficial to WDW in terms of financial impact than a first-time bewildered family who goes all in for their once-in-a-lifetime dream vacation and who may not be encouraged enough to return.

You've got AP's, right? I'm sure that's more cost effective for you than buying three different sets of park tickets in one year. I think we tend to spend less and (based on accrued experience) squeeze more out of each trip. We definitely aren't as profitable to Disney as we were in our early visits. Not because we are trying to sabotage a large corporation or stick it to the man but simply because we've learned the little tricks that save money.


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There are 6 potential guests in our typical group that goes. Some of us (ME) goes anytime anyone goes. We have AP's. The others get tickets for when they do go and we're adding in my grandson now who turned 3 last week, he'll also just get a single use ticket.

I agree that return guests probably spend less- but the resort costs what it costs and that along with the price of the ticket, are the 2 big expenses. I can find discounts and I can buy AP's, but I can't get either any cheaper than a first timer. I'm guessing my 3 trips more than equaled in cost what a first timer would spend on a single trip, even adding in the bells and whistles we may not always get. It doesn't hurt Disney that we added another newbie of our own with my grandson. So while we may cut back on some things in the past, there's lots he hasn't experienced yet.

Plus, the AP is not an always thing for us. I usually keep the AP because as I said, if anyone is going, I'm going too. Plus the AP discount on the room alone makes it worth it.

 

[JimmyV]

Our family likes FP+ except that most of the parks have that stupid tier system. HS has limited ride options. Of course my kids want TSM & Rockin Rollercoaster. It's ridiculous that both aren't an option.

Prepare yourself for a lecture as to why you are wrong, even on crowd calendar days of 1-3. And prepare yourself for another lecture as to how adding more headliner attractions at DHS would not cure the problem. Somehow, tiering isn't needed at the MK with 3 Mountains, 7DMT, Peter Pan, Little Mermaid, Pirates, Haunted Mansion and character meet and greets. But adding attractions to DHS would do nothing to the TSMM/RnR situation because the universal laws of physics and logic dictate that it must be so.

 

[cakebaker]

No lecture from me. HS needs more to do. But it doesn't happen overnight and for now, while it's not anything anyone likes, it's a necessary evil that can be worked around just as we have always had to do in the past.

 

[jade1]

Prepare yourself for a lecture as to why you are wrong, even on crowd calendar days of 1-3. And prepare yourself for another lecture as to how adding more headliner attractions at DHS would not cure the problem. Somehow, tiering isn't needed at the MK with 3 Mountains, 7DMT, Peter Pan, Little Mermaid, Pirates, Haunted Mansion and character meet and greets. But adding attractions to DHS would do nothing to the TSMM/RnR situation because the universal laws of physics and logic dictate that it must be so.

I think you are correct that both parks need more capacity/options. But I think they both will be getting more-we shall see.

Also thought I heard they "might" add on to Soarin and TSM-is it possible that could remove tiers, at least off peak? Although I firmly believe the extra screen/tracks should be offered as a 4th to onsite, or at least not tier for those 2 if your onsite..any left over can be purchased on the APP "day of".

But also think if they add more attractions-TSM and Soarin will still be a tough ticket.

As you mention all the attractions at MK-A/E is still tough, so some attractions are just too popular at least at times-oddly A/E is such an easy fix its perplexing.

 

[jade1]

Not during the slower periods of attendance you wouldn't. You really need to read my posts more carefully before you reflexively attack them. I was quite clear that the Extra Magic passes would be limited to Value Season. If you have 35% fewer people through the turnstiles as compared to the busiest days, then you have 35% more Fast Passes to give to the people who show up while still doling out exactly the same number of passes. You have shown yourself to be intelligent enough to understand this simple concept. If not, let's recap. Assume that on an off season day with horrible weather, only one person shows up at the MK. Ignoring the fact that this person would not need any FPs, could Disney give that person 4? 5? 7? Would doing so "take a ride away from anyone else"? Now raise the attendance to 100 people. Same result? Now 1,000. Any different? How about 10,000? There is no question that at some level of attendance, EVERY GUEST could get 4. On Christmas Day? No. On January 9th? Certainly. You know this. So why the tiresome stalking of my posts. If you feel so strongly that 3 is the magic number, then if Disney offers you a 4th, then don't take it. We wouldn't want you ripping a FP for Dumbo out of some poor girl's hand.

I find it odd they are still 3 "all year" actually. How can XMAS day be the same as Sept 9?

It is a huge change to touring though-there is no way they could possibly know exactly the best mix going in. Like you say-even increasing ticket prices has lead to even more visitors so how could that be planned? Even "Frozen" came out of left field-kinda hard to plan all of that. They must be monitoring and planning accordingly for the future.

I'm with you that off season should be more already-but still think that should be a mix of "more for onsite" and leaving 3 for the rest. Or at least expansion attractions as they open should be offered as a 4th to onsite IMO.

 

[wisblue]

Prepare yourself for a lecture as to why you are wrong, even on crowd calendar days of 1-3. And prepare yourself for another lecture as to how adding more headliner attractions at DHS would not cure the problem. Somehow, tiering isn't needed at the MK with 3 Mountains, 7DMT, Peter Pan, Little Mermaid, Pirates, Haunted Mansion and character meet and greets. But adding attractions to DHS would do nothing to the TSMM/RnR situation because the universal laws of physics and logic dictate that it must be so.

I think you are totally mischaracterizing the reason why some people don't think tiering at DHS is ridiculous, even if they might prefer that it didn't exist.

The reason is that the CURRENT capacities of the major attractions at those parks do not allow guests to get FP's in advance for both Soarin/TT or TSMM/RNRC without precluding a lot of other guests from getting a FP for either. The very simple math, that I think you agree with, tells us that if guests were able to get FPs for both of these major attractions, the supply of FPs would be depleted pretty quickly, maybe even before offsite guests get their shot at them 30 days out. While the people who get FPs for both would be happy, I suspect that the people who can't get one for either would REALLY be unhappy. This seems to me to be a classic case of "be careful what you wish for".

And recognizing your sarcasm, NOBODY has ever said that more attractions (or greater capacity at some of the most popular attractions) wouldn't HELP the situation, though it would probably take several more major attractions that have broad appeal to cure it. I think everybody would like to see more attractions, but what might be done in the future has no bearing on the reason that those tiers are in place today.

 

[jade1]

I think you are totally mischaracterizing the reason why some people don't think tiering at DHS is ridiculous, even if they might prefer that it didn't exist.

The reason is that the CURRENT capacities of the major attractions at those parks do not allow guests to get FP's in advance for both Soarin/TT or TSMM/RNRC without precluding a lot of other guests from getting a FP for either. The very simple math, that I think you agree with, tells us that if guests were able to get FPs for both of these major attractions, the supply of FPs would be depleted pretty quickly, maybe even before offsite guests get their shot at them 30 days out. While the people who get FPs for both would be happy, I suspect that the people who can't get one for either would REALLY be unhappy. This seems to me to be a classic case of "be careful what you wish for".

And recognizing your sarcasm, NOBODY has ever said that more attractions (or greater capacity at some of the most popular attractions) wouldn't HELP the situation, though it would probably take several more major attractions that have broad appeal to cure it. I think everybody would like to see more attractions, but what might be done in the future has no bearing on the reason that those tiers are in place today.

Yep exactly well thought out and accurate.

Think of the screaming on here when folks get neither.

 

[cakebaker]

Prepare yourself for a lecture as to why you are wrong, even on crowd calendar days of 1-3. And prepare yourself for another lecture as to how adding more headliner attractions at DHS would not cure the problem. Somehow, tiering isn't needed at the MK with 3 Mountains, 7DMT, Peter Pan, Little Mermaid, Pirates, Haunted Mansion and character meet and greets. But adding attractions to DHS would do nothing to the TSMM/RnR situation because the universal laws of physics and logic dictate that it must be so.

What they should really prepare for are sarcastic comments against those people who, while not liking it, understand it's necessary.

 

[wisblue]

I find it odd they are still 3 "all year" actually. How can XMAS day be the same as Sept 9?

It is a huge change to touring though-there is no way they could possibly know exactly the best mix going in. Like you say-even increasing ticket prices has lead to even more visitors so how could that be planned? Even "Frozen" came out of left field-kinda hard to plan all of that. They must be monitoring and planning accordingly for the future.

I'm with you that off season should be more already-but still think that should be a mix of "more for onsite" and leaving 3 for the rest. Or at least expansion attractions as they open.

I think the simple answer to the question of why the limit on advance FPs is the same year round is that trying to make the limits seasonal would make the system that much harder for guests to understand.

In the slower season, the result of the lower crowds should be more availability of FPs same day and shorter standby lines. It shouldn't be necessary to give guests more FPs in advance.

 

[jade1]

I think the simple answer to the question of why the limit on advance FPs is the same year round is that trying to make the limits seasonal would make the system that much harder for guests to understand.

In the slower season, the result of the lower crowds should be more availability of FPs same day and shorter standby lines. It shouldn't be necessary to give guests more FPs in advance.

That is true, I guess the whole thing gets less relevant the slower the days.

My original example to "increase" the FP+ was to combat a recession (entice visitors), and also to show some on here that FP+ can be tied directly to profits (as a revenue stream) if they want, to keep insisting that rev/profits would be even higher if not for FP+. Another "careful what you wish for IMO"-except I wish they would.

 

[Angel Ariel]

But also think if they add more attractions-TSM and Soarin will still be a tough ticket.

I'm curious as to why you think that those two will still be so tough, even with added attractions?

Both of these attractions are in DCA, and they both have drastically reduced waits there compared to what they are in DHS/Epcot. Obviously I have no concrete proof as to why that is, but IMO it's very much tied to the fact that there is so much else to do in that park that the crowds get spread out more. If DHS and Epcot added more family-friendly rides (not just more thrill rides), I would really think it would lessen the stress on both of those attractions.

 

[wisblue]

A potential issue with that is the "many more" may not be as profitable as the guests they replace. It's the high frequency guest that FP+ inherently works the best for, yet the high-frequency guest may be less beneficial to WDW in terms of financial impact than a first-time bewildered family who goes all in for their once-in-a-lifetime dream vacation and who may not be encouraged enough to return.

You've got AP's, right? I'm sure that's more cost effective for you than buying three different sets of park tickets in one year. I think we tend to spend less and (based on accrued experience) squeeze more out of each trip. We definitely aren't as profitable to Disney as we were in our early visits. Not because we are trying to sabotage a large corporation or stick it to the man but simply because we've learned the little tricks that save money.
.

I don't agree with this premise.

From reading these boards, I get the impression that a lot of the most vocal and prolific critics of FP+ are high frequency guests who used the paper FP system to their advantage, in many cases to get multiple rides on some of the parks' most popular attractions. Those guests have adopted a "been there, done that, seen that" attitude toward a lot of the attractions and are now more focused on doing some of their favorites multiple times. I do agree that these guests are generally not as profitable as the first time and infrequent guests.

I think the first time bewildered families (especially those who include a stay in one of the Disney resorts as part of their once in a lifetime dream vacation) are some of the biggest beneficiaries of the FP+ system. All they have to do is overcome their bewilderment long enough to act on the materials that Disney gives them to make their FP reservations in advance. Just getting those 3 FPs is likely putting them 3 ahead of where they would have been entering a park in their bewildered state under the paper FP system. And, as long as they can do those 3 attractions and a few others, while also soaking in the magic of that first time visit (magic that many of those jaded guests who have visited dozens of times have forgotten), they will go home very happy, and maybe even dreaming about when they can do it all again to do some of the things they missed this time. Unlike a lot of those jaded frequent guests, they will be happy about that first opportunity to experience many of those WDW classics, even if they had to wait in lines of 30 minutes or more for some of them. Meanwhile, the jaded guests are unhappy because they were unable to get on Soarin 4 times in a day or missed out on their 50th visit to the Haunted Mansion because they weren't willing to wait more than 15-20 minutes for it.

 

[Laketravis]

I find it odd they are still 3 "all year" actually. How can XMAS day be the same as Sept 9?

It is a huge change to touring though-there is no way they could possibly know exactly the best mix going in. Like you say-even increasing ticket prices has lead to even more visitors so how could that be planned? Even "Frozen" came out of left field-kinda hard to plan all of that. They must be monitoring and planning accordingly for the future.

I'm with you that off season should be more already-but still think that should be a mix of "more for onsite" and leaving 3 for the rest. Or at least expansion attractions as they open should be offered as a 4th to onsite IMO.

Jade, I know you liked being able to pop into the park during Christmas and New Years and have your FP's to use in the evening despite the high crowd levels.

How many times a year do you go to WDW?



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[cakebaker]

I'm curious as to why you think that those two will still be so tough, even with added attractions?

Both of these attractions are in DCA, and they both have drastically reduced waits there compared to what they are in DHS/Epcot. Obviously I have no concrete proof as to why that is, but IMO it's very much tied to the fact that there is so much else to do in that park that the crowds get spread out more. If DHS and Epcot added more family-friendly rides (not just more thrill rides), I would really think it would lessen the stress on both of those attractions.

And the latest and greatest attraction would take the hit. The best example is SDMT- plenty to ride at the MK, but that doesn't stop it, nearly a year later from being the most sought after ride in the park. Not long ago, it was near impossible to get at 30 days- and may well gain that status again when the summer crowds hit. And SDMT is not what one would think of as a spectacular, amazing ride. All that would happen is the complaints would just turn to the next hard to get ride.

You'd have to turn the park into nothing but a pure ride park to have additional rides cure the problem. Will more help? Sure, but the real issue is Disney is incredibly popular and as with anything that's popular- it's crowded. I'm expecting some pretty impressive things to happen at HS- and sit back and watch the crowds come.

 

[Angel Ariel]

And the latest and greatest attraction would take the hit. The best example is SDMT- plenty to ride at the MK, but that doesn't stop it, nearly a year later from being the most sought after ride in the park. Not long ago, it was near impossible to get at 30 days- and may well gain that status again when the summer crowds hit. And SDMT is not what one would think of as a spectacular, amazing ride. All that would happen is the complaints would just turn to the next hard to get ride.

I wasn't saying the new attractions wouldn't have issues...in fact, I think they would (again, look at DLR with RSR)...which is exactly why I think SOarin and TSMM's issues would lessen. I was just curious as to why jade thought that new attractions wouldn't lessen the stress on TSMM/Soarin.

You'd have to turn the park into nothing but a pure ride park to have additional rides cure the problem. Will more help? Sure, but the real issue is Disney is incredibly popular and as with anything that's popular- it's crowded. I'm expecting some pretty impressive things to happen at HS- and sit back and watch the crowds come.

I wasn't suggesting any "cure".

 

[AustinTink]

I'm curious as to why you think that those two will still be so tough, even with added attractions?

Both of these attractions are in DCA, and they both have drastically reduced waits there compared to what they are in DHS/Epcot. Obviously I have no concrete proof as to why that is, but IMO it's very much tied to the fact that there is so much else to do in that park that the crowds get spread out more. If DHS and Epcot added more family-friendly rides (not just more thrill rides), I would really think it would lessen the stress on both of those attractions.

Very true. Heck, TSM at DCA isn't even a FP ride.

 

[jade1]

I'm curious as to why you think that those two will still be so tough, even with added attractions?

Both of these attractions are in DCA, and they both have drastically reduced waits there compared to what they are in DHS/Epcot. Obviously I have no concrete proof as to why that is, but IMO it's very much tied to the fact that there is so much else to do in that park that the crowds get spread out more. If DHS and Epcot added more family-friendly rides (not just more thrill rides), I would really think it would lessen the stress on both of those attractions.

Don't get me wrong-adding enough capacity would help, but you would need to add a lot to match DCA.

Move Soarin over to DHS (so you have TSM and Soarin).

Keep TSM (both)

Keep TOT (both)

Keep Muppets (both)

Keep RNR (for CA Screamin)

Bring Test Track in the form of Carsland

Move Bugs life to DHS from AK

Move Monsters INC from MK

Move Turtle Talk from EPCOT

Move Kali Rapids from AK (for Grizzly Run)

Keep Fantasmic for WOC

Maybe bring L Mermaid in place of L Mermaid

Bring Mad Tee Party

Add Fliks Flyers

Add Heimlich's Train

Add Tuck & Rolls Buggies

Add Luigi's Flying tires

Add Golden Zephyr Rocket Ships

Add Jumpin Jellyfish

Add Goofy's Wild Mouse

Add King Tritons Carousel

Add Micky's Ferris Wheel

Add Silly Symphony Swings

 

[jade1]

Jade, I know you liked being able to pop into the park during Christmas and New Years and have your FP's to use in the evening despite the high crowd levels.

How many times a year do you go to WDW?



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Usually 2, Easter and XMAS, although we did sneak in our first Thanksgiving ever last fall.