Losing faith in humanity

[miami305]

I don't know. I would like to teach them that they don't have to be doormats and accept 3rd row when they were in line to have 2nd. Sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself. That doesn't mean you have to get in a fistfight over it.

Agreed. There is balance in life. Extreme passivity or aggressiveness in Miami will doom you to a life of misery. You have to be asssertive enough to stand your ground and calm enough not to have a coronary over the daily stupid behavior of strangers.

 

[sukhakuli]

I'm sorry you had those experiences. We were there for 2 weeks over Thanksgiving, and we didn't have that happen to us once. No one ever got in front of us during a parade or show, we never got run over (and didn't run anyone over wit our stroller, either, but it was close a few times! Thank goodness we have a really top notch stroller, because people just stop or step right in front of the wheels all the time). We didn't see anyone yelling or fighting or anything. We had a really good time.

I have noticed that the crowds respect my dh way more than me, though. If I'm without him and sitting at a parade route or walking through the crowds, people try to take advantage of me. But when dh walks through a crowd its like the parting of the red sea. I don't get it. He's 6'2" and about 200 lbs, and very fit and looks very much like an athlete, which he is. But he's also super clean cut and the kind of guy that small kids approach to chat with. He looks really harmless. But no one ever messes with him. Me, I'm 5'5" and 145, and people try to run me over. I dunno. It's been kind of a running joke in the family, so when we're in a crowded place, we tend to stick together, and never have a problem with crowds.

Except one time at Disneyland, we were front row waiting for the play parade at DCA, and an Asian woman told her kids, in accented English, to go sit in my kids' laps to watch the parade! A CM saw them, and came over and told them they had to move and she pretended she couldn't speak English. The CM made the kids move, and we had a laugh about it, so it wasn't a big deal. It's still one of my favorite crazy stranger experiences!

We had another odd experience at Ariel's Grotto. We have been a few times, and every time we go there is this young guy who is alone eating there. He always gets pictures and autographs with Ariel, and literally follows her around. She's always been very gracious about it, but you can tell from her interactions that he is there nearly every day. Creepy.

 

[Hanover]

We've been to Disney more times than I can count and I think the parades have really gotten out of hand with last minute cutters. We were at DHS for both the first and last Star Wars Weekends this year and went to 3 of the motorcade parades with Star Wars characters. The first parade we sat and waited an hour and 40 minutes to get a front row seat. We had our ds11 right up on the line and DH, DS15 and I were behind. A guy next to us was with his maybe 3 year old son and told the lady behind him that he'd let her daughter go in front of him. Well wouldn't you know by the time the parade started her other 2 kids, husband and mother- in -law had all joined in front of him and set up all of their popcorn, food, and drinks around the entire area, nearly blocking out the man's son in front of the brass line for the parade (a CM said he had to move). The minute the parade was coming down the street, the man picked his son up and sat him on his lap in front of all of them. Of course the lady was mad, but she had really taken advantage of his initial generosity. When CMs blocked the nearby walkway at the start of the parade, we actually had a lady with a double stroller who happened to just be passing by the parade route last minute try and ram our ds11 out of the way. My husband politely told her to get to the back behind everyone that had patiently waited and she said to him her kids couldn't see from back there. We let her kids see, but I wouldn't let her park the stroller in front of ds11.

The 2nd SW motorcade we saw was on the Friday of the last Star Wars Weekend. We sat again for well over an hour and 20 minutes in the rain to get a front row view. There was a bit of a rain delay and when it was announced the parade would finally begin, numerous people tried to cut in around us. One woman literally came over and stood behind me and ds11 with her grandson. The lady behind me that had waited over an hour herself with her kids mentioned that the lady had to move and that they had been waiting. Of course the woman who cut in started calling the other woman names and said she was the rude one and her grandson wanted to see the parade and couldn't see from the back. We had a CM next to us and I asked her to please intervene and she told the parade cutter "its' first come first serve and it is up to them if they will allow you to stay." I thought that was shifting the blame of the entire situation onto the person who had waited so long and shouldn't have put her on the spot like that. Eventually the woman moved. The 3rd time we watched the motorcade we were on a corner and behind the taped line about 6 inches behind a curb waiting again for over an hour. We were again next to a CM and had literally dozens of people come up and sit on the curb directly in front of us but they were told to move because they weren't behind the taped line.

I had 2 online surveys sent to me to complete by Disney about SWW and I made sure to mention the issues with the parade cutters and the chaos at the Hyperspace Hoopla with the same cutting issues. I was actually scared at times with the pushing and crowds we were in. I really wish the SWW motorcade parade would go back to the longer route because there were far less issues and crowds. Luckily our trips are always filled with 99% happy times and memories and we'll continue to return to WDW.

 

[Sorsha]

Agreed. There is balance in life. Extreme passivity or aggressiveness in Miami will doom you to a life of misery. You have to be asssertive enough to stand your ground and calm enough not to have a coronary over the daily stupid behavior of strangers.

There NOTHING wrong with standing your ground when it matters - as I stated, when someone is in danger or threatened, when it is a matter of something illegal, immoral,, etc - but when it is a matter of the orange elephant or the purple one on Dumbo, not an big deal. Enjoy your vacation, as you state don't "have a coronary over the daily stupid behavior of strangers" and just enjoy your vacation.

Teach balance and peace. Namaste.

 

[Disney0010]

It's not just Disney. You see the same types on cruises. We cruise several times a year and over the last five or so years, the "me" first generation has become more obnoxious. The worst are the ones that try to enter an elevator before allowing others to get off first. I stopped being nice. I now just bowl them over.

 

[bytheblood]

I hear ya, OP. This is the world today in general and it is not going to get any better. Disney's refusal to do anything about it is going to make them the same as Six Flags or a local carnival at some point. They have rules they choose not to enforce and at the same time, they are paying people left and right for frivolous lawsuits.

I am sorry you had to deal with that, but good on you for handling it the way you did.

 

[Sorsha]

I would definitely not want them to learn as so many are that being rude gets you what you want. That is why its getting worse. Because some will have enough of everyone else being rude and getting away with it and getting better treatment for being rude so they will start being rude too.

I have no problem teaching my children to be rude to people that are rude to them.

Ummm... contradiction?? You say you don't want them to learn that its ok to be rude because they are tired of others being rude to them, or because it gets them what they want - but then in the next breath you say you have no problem teaching them to be rude to those who are rude to them?

 

[Sorsha]

It's not just Disney. You see the same types on cruises. We cruise several times a year and over the last five or so years, the "me" first generation has become more obnoxious. The worst are the ones that try to enter an elevator before allowing others to get off first. I stopped being nice. I now just bowl them over.

And so now you have become one of the "Rude Ones". What must a casual observer think about you? What example do you set for the younger generation?

How have we become a society that equates "standing up for yourself" to out-rude-ing the other guy?

 

[bytheblood]

We've been to Disney more times than I can count and I think the parades have really gotten out of hand with last minute cutters. We were at DHS for both the first and last Star Wars Weekends this year and went to 3 of the motorcade parades with Star Wars characters. The first parade we sat and waited an hour and 40 minutes to get a front row seat. We had our ds11 right up on the line and DH, DS15 and I were behind. A guy next to us was with his maybe 3 year old son and told the lady behind him that he'd let her daughter go in front of him. Well wouldn't you know by the time the parade started her other 2 kids, husband and mother- in -law had all joined in front of him and set up all of their popcorn, food, and drinks around the entire area, nearly blocking out the man's son in front of the brass line for the parade (a CM said he had to move). The minute the parade was coming down the street, the man picked his son up and sat him on his lap in front of all of them. Of course the lady was mad, but she had really taken advantage of his initial generosity. When CMs blocked the nearby walkway at the start of the parade, we actually had a lady with a double stroller who happened to just be passing by the parade route last minute try and ram our ds11 out of the way. My husband politely told her to get to the back behind everyone that had patiently waited and she said to him her kids couldn't see from back there. We let her kids see, but I wouldn't let her park the stroller in front of ds11.

The 2nd SW motorcade we saw was on the Friday of the last Star Wars Weekend. We sat again for well over an hour and 20 minutes in the rain to get a front row view. There was a bit of a rain delay and when it was announced the parade would finally begin, numerous people tried to cut in around us. One woman literally came over and stood behind me and ds11 with her grandson. The lady behind me that had waited over an hour herself with her kids mentioned that the lady had to move and that they had been waiting. Of course the woman who cut in started calling the other woman names and said she was the rude one and her grandson wanted to see the parade and couldn't see from the back. We had a CM next to us and I asked her to please intervene and she told the parade cutter "its' first come first serve and it is up to them if they will allow you to stay." I thought that was shifting the blame of the entire situation onto the person who had waited so long and shouldn't have put her on the spot like that. Eventually the woman moved. The 3rd time we watched the motorcade we were on a corner and behind the taped line about 6 inches behind a curb waiting again for over an hour. We were again next to a CM and had literally dozens of people come up and sit on the curb directly in front of us but they were told to move because they weren't behind the taped line.

I had 2 online surveys sent to me to complete by Disney about SWW and I made sure to mention the issues with the parade cutters and the chaos at the Hyperspace Hoopla with the same cutting issues. I was actually scared at times with the pushing and crowds we were in. I really wish the SWW motorcade parade would go back to the longer route because there were far less issues and crowds. Luckily our trips are always filled with 99% happy times and memories and we'll continue to return to WDW.

This is the very reason our family no longer watches parades other than special events. It is better for me to do something else with my daughter than to get defensive because somebody is all over her.

 

[kamik86]

Ummm... contradiction?? You say you don't want them to learn that its ok to be rude because they are tired of others being rude to them, or because it gets them what they want - but then in the next breath you say you have no problem teaching them to be rude to those who are rude to them?

Not a contradiction... bring up and "be rude" if that is what you consider sticking up for yourself to be the people that are rude to you. But do not stoop to their behavior and be rude to other people. So stop the line cutter don't decide that line cutting is better and no one stops them so your just going to do it now too.

 

[Sorsha]

Not a contradiction... bring up and "be rude" if that is what you consider sticking up for yourself to be the people that are rude to you. But do not stoop to their behavior and be rude to other people. So stop the line cutter don't decide that line cutting is better and no one stops them so your just going to do it now too.

OK, I am not going to debate it any more with you because a) obviously we will just have to agree to disagree, and b) (honestly) not to be rude, but I just don't understand what that sentence is even meant to say.

 

[Reddog1134]

Before you lose faith in humanity remember, that ONE guy cut in line while dozens of other people waited patiently. Unfortunately, it's the jerks that stick out and stick in our minds.

 

[kamik86]

OK, I am not going to debate it any more with you because a) obviously we will just have to agree to disagree, and b) (honestly) not to be rude, but I just don't understand what that sentence is even meant to say.

Ok I'm good with agree to disagree .

Before you lose faith in humanity remember, that ONE guy cut in line while dozens of other people waited patiently. Unfortunately, it's the jerks that stick out and stick in our minds.

This I agree with but I know how its easy to have no faith in humanity. My DH has this issue. He knows in his head that the completely awful customers he has to deal with (Target) are in the minority. But since they take up the majority of his time and effort they start to seem like the majority.

 

[raidermatt]

Before you lose faith in humanity remember, that ONE guy cut in line while dozens of other people waited patiently. Unfortunately, it's the jerks that stick out and stick in our minds.

This is a good point. For every person who cuts, there are really hundreds that don't. For every stroller that hits somebody, there are many other that don't. For every person that steps in front of somebody at a parade, there are many that just line up behind.

I understand the frustration though. Those exceptions that cause the trouble are becoming more frequent.

 

[Coachymom]

Actually, what the man did is bullying. He didn't think anyone would say anything to neither him nor do anything so he carried on with his behavior. Essentially praying on people he thought were weaker then him.

Who says that standing up for oneself is not holding oneself to a higher standard or acting in a dignified manner?

My children will grow up to not be a rude person or a line cutter, but a person who sticks up for others and themselves.

By teaching your children the way that you are...you are essentially letting them believe that letting people continue their rude behavior is ok.

Riding third row in life rather than second is not ok!

BTW...believing in stereotypes is very closed minded and judgmental.

Ok, all fine and good. But what are you teaching them, really?

You are teaching them that if someone is rude to them, but not in a way that really matters - i.e. they aren't being bullied, nothing illegal is happening, no one is being hurt or threatened - that the appropriate response is to get in their face and be just as rude back to them by "standing up for yourself". Loudly. In short, reinforcing the "East Coast" stereotype.

Wouldn't it be better to say to your children, "Yes, that man just cut in front of us, but in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter. We will just get the third row of seats instead of the second. It was rude but we are still having fun." If you say it loud enough so he overhears, maybe he will feel ashamed, maybe not. But you have taught your children to stay dignified and hold themselves to a higher standard.

 

[Phatoomch]

You kind of have to, unless you are bigger, stronger and willing to fight.

Disney management does nothing. They contend that they don't have the authority to do anything. It is up to you to hold your place in line or call the cops.

They cannot control guest behavior.

Seriously.

I have the name of the manager, the date, time, everything. I am seriously waiting for someone to file suit. And I'll happily sit and be deposed.

"We have no authority. We cannot control guest behavior."

And neither do bystanders, sadly.

I'm used to this kind of behaviour, its nothing new. I grew up in a rough part of London during the 70's & 80's and I have witnessed unsavoury people on a regular basis. Hence why I now, as an adult, have chosen to live elsewhere. BUT, those people are not in the majority.

So, as a bystander, if I do witness someone being "bullied" (where ever in the world it may be), be it my business or not, I will step in and lend a hand (politely, I do not shout or cuss, I just put the spotlight on them) and more often than not, other bystanders will follow and then, problem solved. Obviously I am talking about social situations like the OP mentions, I'm not saying run down the dark alley to the guy with a gun and put him in his place

Disney should do something, but then so should others. Too often I see people stand by and just watch.

 

[NotUrsula]

I really don't have much issue with visitors from countries who do not have a "queue culture" jumping into an open space when they see one, because that is their norm. However, IME, once it is pointed out to those people that we queue here, they tend to apologize and immediately go to the back of the queue. Folks who stand their ground and offer an "I'm more special than you are" justification for their actions are not usually people who are from a no-queue culture; they are people who know darn good and well that a queue exists and why; they just don't want to bother with it.

I mentioned reality TV earlier, and I still think it is a key culprit, because it models people getting away with such behavior and not only getting away with it, but getting rewarded for it. However, I think that there are several factors that play in (and not to make this a religious thread, but lack of faith in a higher being is, IMO, *not* one of them. Rude and entitled people are rude and entitled people, regardless of what religious beliefs they may or may not have.)

Two of the factors that I think also play a part are our never-ending thirst for speed and efficiency, and the rise of electronic communications. On boards like this one many of us say things that we would never dream of saying to someone's face, and sometimes, if you spend enough time communicating virtually, your in-person filters kind of go wonky after awhile. Also, nothing is ever fast enough for us, and one of the "privileges" often granted to the powerful is the elimination of any need to wait. When individuals feel entitled, waiting for service of any kind tends to be one of the first things that they think they needn't deal with.

As to the customer being always right -- not hardly. However, as a line worker you have to be careful about when to enforce rules if you don't have backup: a minimum-wage job is not worth your life. As a manager I have been in situations where my only choice was to placate the irate, because it was clear to me that if the person was thwarted he was going to turn violent. I'm just not going to take that chance with someone who quite possibly has a loaded long gun 50 feet outside my door in the rack of a truck. He could be out and back with it long before I could get a police officer onto my premises, and I cannot in good conscience put my staff or my customers at that kind of risk over a policy question.

In the Disney parks I really do not understand why all CM's cannot be issued a wireless security call tag. If they witness a credible threat or ejectable offense they should be able to just press the tag and let security come without having to audibly call them. (The signal could be set like Morse, with a certain click pattern for different categories of emergency.)

 

[Hanover]

This is the very reason our family no longer watches parades other than special events. It is better for me to do something else with my daughter than to get defensive because somebody is all over her.

Yes, I agree about this with the regular daily Disney parades. We fly down each June specificially for SWW and ds11's favorite things are the parade and Hyperspace Hoopla so I try and deal with the heat, the crowds and the parade cutters the best I can for him so he can see them. I have no problem letting kids from behind come up and stand/sit in front of me, but I won't allow anyone to cut in front of ds11 who has patiently waited for over an hour and a half. He's learned to keep his toes on the parade line and not move an inch or he may have someone trying to squeeze in.

 

[livndisney]

Actually, what the man did is bullying. He didn't think anyone would say anything to neither him nor do anything so he carried on with his behavior. Essentially praying on people he thought were weaker then him.

Who says that standing up for oneself is not holding oneself to a higher standard or acting in a dignified manner?

My children will grow up to not be a rude person or a line cutter, but a person who sticks up for others and themselves.

By teaching your children the way that you are...you are essentially letting them believe that letting people continue their rude behavior is ok.

Riding third row in life rather than second is not ok!

BTW...believing in stereotypes is very closed minded and judgmental.

THIS!!!! Right here! What she said!!!! People do not expect anyone to say anything to them so they bully their way into getting what they want. Just the other day someone walked into the restroom and let loose with a bunch of profanity, I nicely asked the person to remember there are children around, the look of shock was amazing (I now have a visual of the term "gobsmacked"). The person left.

I cannot tell you the number of times where someone has tried to force their presence on me and I politely refuse. 9 times out of 10 the bully slinks away. I am not going to start a fight, but I think it is important for my child to learn to stand up for herself. She knows we have been waiting for our turn and I am not going to make it easy for someone to take that away. I will stand up and say something. She knows I will stand up for her. That is part of being a good parent.

She also knows that if she is in the wrong, she will deal with me LOL

 

[sharadoc]

I can't stand it either. We will only do parades if it's the late one and we have a surefire spot. Otherwise, we'll watch from the back, or as we're walking along.

I agree that I am losing faith in humanity too. This country was founded by outcasts and rejects who were the dregs of society where they came from and moved her to escape persecution. That was a wonderful thing. But they accepted and passed along that bullying attitude from generation to generation. We have no civility, just a me first, I'm bigger than you bullying way of acting. It's getting worse as our education system gets worse and our society splits more into the haves and have nots. Every segment of society feel entitled and doesn't care any more.

Disney used to be the place where everyone was happy. Not so much any more.