Line etiquette question

[WillCAD]

Because they were in line before you.

No, they weren't. When I got in line, they weren't there. The fact that they may have been in line earlier in the day does not mitigate their cutting in front of me - and the others who got in line while they weren't there - one bit.

That must be something they didn't cover when I took conrtitutional law. I'm going to ask for my tuition back....

They didn't cover the Declaration of Independence? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happines..."

Maybe you should ask for that tuition refund.

in your opinion. I disagree.Your wait time didn't change by a single second. Only your perception changed.

Perception? No, the reality is that there are a certain number of people IN the line when I get into it. If more come into it ahead of me at a later time, then the REALITY of the situation is that my wait time has increased.

Perhaps you should try to relax a little and be just a bit more compassionate and understanding.

Wow, any time someone advocates following the rules, somebody always breaks out the bogus "compassionate and understanding" argument.

Compassion does not justify the breaking of rules. Understanding why someone breaks a rule does not mitigate the violation.

If someone cuts in line, they have broken a rule. All of the understanding and compassion in the universe don't change that fact - only your perceptioonof the fact.

I think it's funny when people try to paste their positions onto Walt Disney and use him to supprt their point. The truth is, you have no clue what he would have thought about this. Not only that, but he isn't in charge any more. His hypothetical opinion isn't pertainent to this conversation.

You're right, I don't know for sure that Walt wouldn't have approved of line cutting; I simply suspect so, based on the times in which he lived and the prevalent culture of those times, which were extremely courtesy and rules oriented.

And Walt isn't in charge any more, but his company still uses his original philosphies as guiding precepts to running the parks. If we give up on the idea that Walt probably wanted people to follow the rules and not cut in line, then we may as well abandon his original philosophy that the Disney parks are meant to be places which the whole family can enjoy together, and just "aim for kids" as he so elloquently put it once.

Please don't twist the positions of others. Its a poor debate tactic.

How have I twisted anyone's position?

Ummm, the people whining in this thread are not the ones who disagree with you. (Look in the mirror.)

No, the people afvocating line-cutting and thus rule-breaking are not whining, they are using a more insidious technique of casting aspersions on the compassion and understanding of those on the other side of the issue, and telling them repeatedly to "lighten up" and "don't let it get to you" and "don't let it ruin your vacation." The unspoken subtext of that, of course, is that there is something inherently wrong with following the rules or being a little miffed when someone cuts in line ahead of us.

Whatever. In every one of those scenarios, it would be perfectly acceptable for someone to hold your place in line if you had to leave it for whatever reason. The simple fact is, in the real world people are more compassionate than in the forum world.

No, once you are out of a line, then you are no longer in the line, and if you want to get in the line, you should get in at the end.

What about others having some compassion for my experience? What about others having consideration for my wait time? Compassion is a two-way street - if you want me to have compassion for others' difficulties in waiting in line, maybe they should have compassion for MY difficulties, as well.

When my feet, knees, and back hurt from standing in line, I don't get out and come back to the same spot later - that would be cutting, and would negatively impact the wait times of those behind me. So I don't do it.

If I have to go to the bathroom while I'm in a line, I get out and get back in at the END, not in my previous position. To cut in at my previous position would be against the rules, and would be unfair - and uncompassionate - to those behind me.

People often pull that "have some compassion" stuff, but what they're really saying is "have some compassion for ME, because MY needs are more important then yours and more important than the rules."

Balogna. Rules apply equally to everyone. Line cutting is wrong.

 

[DaveCN]

Actually, you do. You see, you have no control, power, or authority over me. You can choose have a Donald Duck-like meltdown, but you don't really have the option to allow or disallow me from rejoining my family.

Sorry.

As much as you have no authority to physically move me out of your "way". You, too can have the meltdown, but it doesn't mean I will let you by.

 

[sbell111]

If 20 people leave the line, there are then 10 people in the line. If I get into the line at that point, I'm #11, not #31.

But then when the 20 line cutters get into the line in front of me, I've become #31 instead of #11.

How is this not line cutting? They were never in line in front of me. They were not "returning," because they were never in front of ME or any of the people who got in line while they were gone - the line was 10 people when I got into it, not 30. Your argument that they are "returning" may hold water for the people who were in line behind them when they left, but for the scads of people who get into line when they are not there, it's cutting, pure and simple.

A line is not a static crowd. It continuously grows and gets longer at the back as people move out of it into the attraction at the front. If someone gets out of line, then get into the line later at the same point, they are not "returning" to the line - they are cutting in front of all the people who weren't in the line when they left.

Actually, you are still looking at the line from the wrong direction.

When the ride opens in the morning, a line forms. On most rides, that line ends with the last person to ride the ride that day. Whether or not anyone leaves and returns to the line over the course of the day has no effect on anyone else's wait time, including that of the very last rider.

It's cutting. It's wrong. And it's against the rules, even though CMs rarely enforce the rules because they are told to never be confrontational with a Guest.

Where are these rules to which you refer?

 

[sbell111]

I guess what it boils down to is this - if you leave the line, you have no right to expect that you will be let back in the same place.

That's a nice black and white statement, but it does nothing to prove your position.

 

[imthatgirl]

No, they weren't. When I got in line, they weren't there. The fact that they may have been in line earlier in the day does not mitigate their cutting in front of me - and the others who got in line while they weren't there - one bit.



They didn't cover the Declaration of Independence? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happines..."

Maybe you should ask for that tuition refund.



Perception? No, the reality is that there are a certain number of people IN the line when I get into it. If more come into it ahead of me at a later time, then the REALITY of the situation is that my wait time has increased.



Wow, any time someone advocates following the rules, somebody always breaks out the bogus "compassionate and understanding" argument.

Compassion does not justify the breaking of rules. Understanding why someone breaks a rule does not mitigate the violation.

If someone cuts in line, they have broken a rule. All of the understanding and compassion in the universe don't change that fact - only your perceptioonof the fact.



You're right, I don't know for sure that Walt wouldn't have approved of line cutting; I simply suspect so, based on the times in which he lived and the prevalent culture of those times, which were extremely courtesy and rules oriented.

And Walt isn't in charge any more, but his company still uses his original philosphies as guiding precepts to running the parks. If we give up on the idea that Walt probably wanted people to follow the rules and not cut in line, then we may as well abandon his original philosophy that the Disney parks are meant to be places which the whole family can enjoy together, and just "aim for kids" as he so elloquently put it once.



How have I twisted anyone's position?



No, the people afvocating line-cutting and thus rule-breaking are not whining, they are using a more insidious technique of casting aspersions on the compassion and understanding of those on the other side of the issue, and telling them repeatedly to "lighten up" and "don't let it get to you" and "don't let it ruin your vacation." The unspoken subtext of that, of course, is that there is something inherently wrong with following the rules or being a little miffed when someone cuts in line ahead of us.



No, once you are out of a line, then you are no longer in the line, and if you want to get in the line, you should get in at the end.

What about others having some compassion for my experience? What about others having consideration for my wait time? Compassion is a two-way street - if you want me to have compassion for others' difficulties in waiting in line, maybe they should have compassion for MY difficulties, as well.

When my feet, knees, and back hurt from standing in line, I don't get out and come back to the same spot later - that would be cutting, and would negatively impact the wait times of those behind me. So I don't do it.

If I have to go to the bathroom while I'm in a line, I get out and get back in at the END, not in my previous position. To cut in at my previous position would be against the rules, and would be unfair - and uncompassionate - to those behind me.

People often pull that "have some compassion" stuff, but what they're really saying is "have some compassion for ME, because MY needs are more important then yours and more important than the rules."

Balogna. Rules apply equally to everyone. Line cutting is wrong.

"the rules" ?does it really state in "the rules" that anyone that has to use the bathroom must leave the line and not return? could you post "the rules" you speak of?
and like ive already said, now that i know that the CM's will give out fast passes to use the bathroom, ill just use do that instead. now thats cutting, because i did have a place in the long line,and now i dont have to wait at all. but it seems we're all ok with that. strange.

and just so we're on the same page, if its a long line, lets say an hour. it doesnt negatively impact the wait time of anyone when i, one person, leaves to use the bathroom. the wait time was calculated loosely and with my spot being taken. it doest change when i walk out for 5 minutes.

 

[sbell111]

i agree, and like i aid, just ignore those that dont agree. its not worth your time.
and for what its worth it does seem much better to just get the fast pass then to have to return to a long line

I misunderstood your position. My mistake.

 

[sbell111]

I agree that the situation is extreme but I would love it if every line in entered at WDW or DL only had 10 people in it!!!

Agreed. A ten person line is really no line. Usually there are ten people in line just running through the empty queue to get to the ride.

 

[sbell111]

They didn't cover the Declaration of Independence? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happines..."

You get that the DofI is not part of the Constitution, right? Further, I don't see 'Thou shall not go pee and come back to the line' anywhere in either document. Finally, the Constitution doesn't tend to regulate the actions of private citizens. It establishes the powers of the government.

Perception? No, the reality is that there are a certain number of people IN the line when I get into it. If more come into it ahead of me at a later time, then the REALITY of the situation is that my wait time has increased.

No, your perception of how long you would have to wait before riding has changed. You actual wait time is exactly the same whether those people had stayed in line or not.

Wow, any time someone advocates following the rules, somebody always breaks out the bogus "compassionate and understanding" argument.

Compassion does not justify the breaking of rules. Understanding why someone breaks a rule does not mitigate the violation.

If someone cuts in line, they have broken a rule. All of the understanding and compassion in the universe don't change that fact - only your perceptioon of the fact.

Once again, where are these rules?

You're right, I don't know for sure that Walt wouldn't have approved of line cutting; I simply suspect so, based on the times in which he lived and the prevalent culture of those times, which were extremely courtesy and rules oriented.

And Walt isn't in charge any more, but his company still uses his original philosphies as guiding precepts to running the parks. If we give up on the idea that Walt probably wanted people to follow the rules and not cut in line, then we may as well abandon his original philosophy that the Disney parks are meant to be places which the whole family can enjoy together, and just "aim for kids" as he so elloquently put it once.

You don't see a disconnect between your hard line position and what you just stated his so-called philosophy was? Really?

No, the people afvocating line-cutting and thus rule-breaking are not whining, they are using a more insidious technique of casting aspersions on the compassion and understanding of those on the other side of the issue, and telling them repeatedly to "lighten up" and "don't let it get to you" and "don't let it ruin your vacation." The unspoken subtext of that, of course, is that there is something inherently wrong with following the rules or being a little miffed when someone cuts in line ahead of us.

Again with the nonexistent rules.

No, once you are out of a line, then you are no longer in the line, and if you want to get in the line, you should get in at the end.

I disagree, as I explained many, many times.

What about others having some compassion for my experience?

Many people have tried to give you advice that, if taken, would improve your experience.

What about others having consideration for my wait time?

I've explained several times that your actual wait time isn't affected, at all. Not even one second.

Compassion is a two-way street - if you want me to have compassion for others' difficulties in waiting in line, maybe they should have compassion for MY difficulties, as well.

When my feet, knees, and back hurt from standing in line, I don't get out and come back to the same spot later - that would be cutting, and would negatively impact the wait times of those behind me. So I don't do it.

If I have to go to the bathroom while I'm in a line, I get out and get back in at the END, not in my previous position. To cut in at my previous position would be against the rules, and would be unfair - and uncompassionate - to those behind me.

People often pull that "have some compassion" stuff, but what they're really saying is "have some compassion for ME, because MY needs are more important then yours and more important than the rules."

That's not what I am reading. I believe that everyone who believe that it is OK for them to leave and return to a line would also believe that it is OK for you to do the same. There is no double standard here.

Balogna. Rules apply equally to everyone. Line cutting is wrong.

Oscar Meyer has a way with B-O-L-O-G-N-A.

Again, where are the rules and how is line cutting defined? The disagreement in this thread is not whether line cutting is wrong, it's how line cutting is defined.

 

[BostonRob]

As much as you have no authority to physically move me out of your "way". You, too can have the meltdown, but it doesn't mean I will let you by.

In my first post on this thread, on page two, I said "No blockading." I'll repeat that now. "No Blockading."

 

[mgilmer]

I don't think it's crazy to get upset if you've been following the rules, waiting patiently in the same hot sun for 30 or 40 minutes, and somebody else comes pushing their way past you to get on the ride without waiting in line. Why are they special? Why are they better than those who wait in line? Why are they more deserving of the up-front space than those who wait?

Sorry, folks, but in the USofA we are all created equal - and that means we should all wait in the same line, the same way.



Your scenario 2 is flawed in 2 ways:

1) Leaving and returning IS "true cutting".

2) If I get in the line and there are 38 people ahead of me, but 12 more come to join them AFTER I got into the line, then my wait just increased by 24%. It doesn't matter if they were in the line before I got there - if they were not in the line when I got there, then they get in front of me, they are cutting the line. And it truly does affect me - because my wait time just increased by 24%.



I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.

I never said kids who have a "harder" time waiting in line shouldn't be at WDW. I said that if you don't wait in line, you shouldn't get to ride.

Having a hard time following the rules is no excuse for breaking them.

I also never said that anyone equated being a parent with being handicapped. In fact, I said that nobody would ever make that comparison - my point being that if having a kid is not the same as being handicapped, then why do so many parents think that having a kid entitles them to the same sort of special priviledges that are granted to handicapped people, i.e. not having to wait in the regular line like everybody else?

People who negatively impact other people because of their own impatience or lack of consideration, or outright violation of rules or even laws, yes, those people bother me. I don't go on tirades or yell at line cutters; in fact, I don't even blockade them. But yer darn tootin' it bugs me to get in a line with 38 people and have 12 barge their way past me, making my wait time increase significantly, just because they think they have a valid excuse for breaking the rules, or simply don't' care about the rules.

Yes, Walt made WDW for everybody, but if you asked him, somehow I doubt that he'd agree that it's okay to cut in line just because your kid is not yet capable of waiting in line.

If it was okay to barge your way forward without waiting, they wouldn't have built queue areas to begin with.



Well, I'm sick of people who constantly break rules and justify it by saying, in effect, "But I should be allowed to break the rules because it's so hard for ME to follow them! MY situation is unique! I'm SPECIAL!"

-->ERRRR! Wrong answer Hans! Would you like to try for Double Jeopardy, where the scores can really change?!<--

"But it's hard!" is no excuse for not managing your kids' behavior and teaching them proper line etiquette.

Line etiquette is not just for theme parks - it also applies to stores, fast food restaurants, banks, schools, and just about every other place else in real life. "Wait your turn" is an important lesson, and a very simple and easy one, that kids can and should learn from a very early age. It is, in fact, one that used to be taught at the pre-school level, along with "sharing," "no biting," and "that's not yours." But parents teaching a kid that it's okay to get out of line and get back in again later undercuts that valuable lesson.

I hate waiting in lines, too. I get antsy, I get tired, I get thirsty, I even have pains in my feet and knees and back while waiting in a long line. But I follow the rules - I wait my turn and don't jump in front of other people, because I realize that I am no more deserving of special dispensation than anyone else.

I agree with all the others in this thread who say that if you don't teach your kids how to wait in line, they will never learn how to wait in line.

Dang! That is so well said I am almost speechless!

 

[sbell111]

As much as you have no authority to physically move me out of your "way". You, too can have the meltdown, but it doesn't mean I will let you by.

So I simply walk around you, step over the chain, take the fast pass line to my family, whatever. You have no right to physically restrain me. Doing so would be a violation of law.

 

[3girls4me05]

No, once you are out of a line, then you are no longer in the line, and if you want to get in the line, you should get in at the end.

So when my two yr old scooted under the chain and bolted when we were in the Dumbo line and then I had to leave the line to grab her and bring her back...I should have gone to the end of the line? She wanted to play with that clown thing that you can spin the different body parts. And for the record I did get back into line where my family was waiting for us and the two yr old was held the rest of the time as punishment. No one said a word about me cutting the line. Situations are not black and white and no one made you "Keeper of the Line" so if you have a problem then take it up with the CM.

 

[mgilmer]

Actually, you do. You see, you have no control, power, or authority over me. You can choose have a Donald Duck-like meltdown, but you don't really have the option to allow or disallow me from rejoining my family.

Sorry.

Well, if you try to push past me in line, I am sorry but you are risking the enjoyment of the rest of your vacation, not to mention your physical safety. I simply will not allow it and at my size and girth, I can enforce my wishes in this matter. Sound mean? So be it.

 

[imthatgirl]

Well, if you try to push past me in line, I am sorry but you are risking the enjoyment of the rest of your vacation, not to mention your physical safety. I simply will not allow it and at my size and girth, I can enforce my wishes in this matter. Sound mean? So be it.

would you really physically harm a person that asked nicely to pass you....oh my...there are programs for that.
oh and you would be taken out of the park, what a waste of money, and she would still pass you.

 

[BostonRob]

They didn't cover the Declaration of Independence? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happines..."

Its worth mentioning that the Declaration of Independence holds no legal significance. And do we really need to try to apply the constitution to waiting in line in WDW? Surely there must be a more relevant document. I hope somebody who's been quoting all these "rules" will post a link to WDW's rules and lines policies.

 

[sbell111]

Well, if you try to push past me in line, I am sorry but you are risking the enjoyment of the rest of your vacation, not to mention your physical safety. I simply will not allow it and at my size and girth, I can enforce my wishes in this matter. Sound mean? So be it.

When did I suggest that I would push past you.

Regarding your silly threats of enforcement, you don't know me so you can't possibly know whether this would not leave you with a bit of a hurting. Further, any physical enforcement on your part would be a clear violation of Florida law. Believe me, if this enforcement caused me to 'risk the enjoyment of the rest of my vacation', I would pursue all legal remedies.

 

[mgilmer]

would you really physically harm a person that asked nicely to pass you....oh my...there are programs for that.
oh and you would be taken out of the park, what a waste of money, and she would still pass you.

Asked nicely? No. But is a person is being a ******* and trying to use bluster or lunancy, yes I would be willing to physically harm them to protect mine own. Sorry it that upsets you. I repay courtesy with courtesy and loutness with loutness.

 

[sbell111]

Its worth mentioning that the Declaration of Independence holds no legal significance. And do we really need to try to apply the constitution to waiting in line in WDW? Surely there must be a more relevant document. I hope somebody who's been quoting all these "rules" will post a link to WDW's rules and lines policies.

I wasn't the one that brought up 'rights'.

 

[sbell111]

Asked nicely? No. But is a person is being a ******* and trying to use bluster or lunancy, yes I would be willing to physically harm them to protect mine own. Sorry it that upsets you. I repay courtesy with courtesy and loutness with loutness.

The bluster and lunacy in this thread has come from those that have stated that they would somehow restrict people from returning to their families.

 

[mgilmer]

When did I suggest that I would push past you.

Regarding your silly threats of enforcement, you don't know me so you can't possibly know whether this would not leave you with a bit of a hurting. Further, any physical enforcement on your part would be a clear violation of Florida law. Believe me, if this enforcement caused me to 'risk the enjoyment of the rest of my vacation', I would pursue all legal remedies.

Well all I can say is that I hope we do not meet up in line when you are trying to cut in front of me. With your attitude I am afraid you will end up in the hospital seriously hurt and I may end up in jail. Not a good outcome for either of us.