just back...too many scooters!

[DVCLiz]

If you are not able to walk Disney parks unless you have a legitimate medical reason, then maybe you need to vacation somewhere that involves less walking. Scooters were meant to be used by those that truly have a medical need not by those that simply choose to take the easy way.

Aaahhhhh, I was waiting for someone to say this - it usually shows up after a while on these threads.

First you go through the security line, then you go through the biometrics line, then you get on the scale - or perhaps there will be a horizontal measuring stick - "If you are this fat, you may not enter the park." Then we can have some threads with quick weight loss tips to beat that system, the way we do now with children's shoes and height requirements.

Personally, I'd rather show a little compassion, but that's just me.

 

[Sammie]

Aaahhhhh, I was waiting for someone to say this - it usually shows up after a while on these threads.

First you go through the security line, then you go through the biometrics line, then you get on the scale - or perhaps there will be a horizontal measuring stick - "If you are this fat, you may not enter the park." Then we can have some threads with quick weight loss tips to beat that system, the way we do now with children's shoes and height requirements.

Personally, I'd rather show a little compassion, but that's just me.

I don't see that statement as being uncompassionate. You can not ride the mules down the Grand Canyon unless you are under a certain weight. Do you think they should change that and make special arrangement to transport the overweight. I don't. I think there is too much of lets make everything available to everyone.

If someone has a true medical reason for riding a scooter then fine, if not they don't need one.

I do find it interesting and I would not be surprised if some of the very ones that think the overweight are being mistreated in this thread are the first to rally for the No Smoking at Disney and have no compassion for those that do smoke.

 

[ClarabelleCow]

Had to laugh today, I was in Costco, and I would have never noticed this except for the fact that I have been following this thread, Costco sells these scooters, and for a mere $1050.00 you can all get one!!

 

[willis37862]

I don't see that statement as being uncompassionate. You can not ride the mules down the Grand Canyon unless you are under a certain weight. Do you think they should change that and make special arrangement to transport the overweight. I don't. I think there is too much of lets make everything available to everyone.

If someone has a true medical reason for riding a scooter then fine, if not they don't need one.

I do find it interesting and I would not be surprised if some of the very ones that think the overweight are being mistreated in this thread are the first to rally for the No Smoking at Disney and have no compassion for those that do smoke.

Good point. I have to agree with the make everything available to everyone. I am over 6 feet and the rides cramp me all up. So I guess if the rides have to fit people extremely overweight then I want them to fit tall people too. Is being to tall a medical condition?

 

[snowbunny]

Ahh -- the scooter debate

Step 1 --- some one posts that scooters are a nusiance
Step 2 --- folks indignantly state that poster should be grateful they are not handicapped
Step 3--- other folks defend poster by saying that many using the scooters don't seem to need it
Step 4--- anecdotes abound of folks who don't seem to need it but do
Step 5--- misquotes and overly-broad statements are made in which those against the scooters are heartless and don't want people with handicaps to be in the park and those for the scooters support people running rampant around the park and running over little boys and girls.
Step 6 --- Snacky Stack closes the thread

Repeat every 3 months

 

[EeyoreBrat]

This thread does nothing but emphasis the lack of consideration people have for one another. It is not your job to judge whether one person is handicapped, fat, or lazy, nor is it Disney's. Be responsible for your own behavior.

As long as the people pay the price to use the equipment and don't exceed the equipments safe operating capacity than there is no reason that that person should not be allowed to do so.

Besides the people who abuse the systems are most likely not the ones who are responding to this thread, any more than other threads about mug or pool abuse are.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Now that I've seen it from both sides, I can see that there's no easy answer. Perhaps Disney will figure something out, but for now it looks like we just need to share the road.

Well, Disney tries a little. There's a roped-off path leading in and out of The Land, specifically marked for wheelchairs (signage at the top and bottom, plus where there's a break in the ropes) which makes a lot of sense but means little to many Guests. There at least, I figure wheelchair Guests have the right of way!

in order to rent a scooter there should be a "TEST TRACK" no pun intended to see if the people that need them can use them. If not they should use a wheel chair with someone pushing them along !!!!!!!!!!

Okay, it's not a bad idea... but what about solo travelers?

The people that really need them really need to be able to control them. What is wrong with wheelchairs anyway?

See my response to ton80, above.

Not quite the same is it? The scooter doesn't have the ability to stop by itself, catch a child that might have been knocked over, or apologize. I suspect getting you foot caught between a wheel and the frame hurts more than having your toes stepped on. You not only get the weight of the person but add the weight of the machine too.

While I don't see how anybody could get a foot caught between a wheel and the frame (what's anybody's foot doing in that location in the first place?), I have run over my own foot while trying to maneuver one in my resort room.

Originally Posted by In a hurry
Damn those handicapped people. There ought to be some sort of law against them being out in public.

Is that necessary? Noone on here is saying that in the least bit.

I think In a Hurry was being funny.

Those of you with legitimate need, or with relatives with legitimate need, as has been said, are being thin-skinned to think this debate is directed at you (unless you happen to be a bad scooter driver of course). I for one am thrilled that those in need can enjoy better access not just to Disney, but to most things our society has to offer....snip...

Actually, I'm not being thin-skinned; I know the original post wasn't directed at me. It's just that mine is the only experience I can use as examples in my responses. No, wait - I was at the Food & Wine Festival a few years back with someone recovering from heart surgery. This person used an ECV, however, also needed to walk sometimes, per the doctor. So another person with us would ride the ECV for a bit, so we were moving.
Disney's ECVs do only move about three miles per hour maximum. It's those offsite rentals you need to look out for

My DM's freind suggested she get a scooter to get on the rides faster. This is the way of thinking for some and it IS getting out of control.

A number of posts have mentioned this. MOST attraction queues are wheelchair accessible, so this getting to the head of the line thing is largely a myth. One really good example is Soarin'. The line and attraction are ENTIRELY accessible. At Dinosaur and Splash Mountain Guests in wheelchairs/ECVs stay in the line with everybody else until they get to the stairs, then are directed to the elevator or in through the exit, respectively. I've entered Tower of Terror both ways - during EMH once I went through the entire regular line and in through the front door, into the library then onto the elevator. A few days later, I was brought in through the exit and told ToT doesn't permit ECVs in the building!

First of all, if you do not think that these scooters get you in line faster you are flat wrong! I have seen it many, many times from Small World to buses.

Well, nothing gets anyone into line for an attraction faster than anybody else. On approaching the attraction, Guests in ECVs or wheelchairs (although it seems people do not have an issue with the latter) MAY be directed to another, accessible entrance because the regular line, or part of it, are inaccessible (see above). Another one is Buzz Lightyear. I go through the entire line with everybody else, then down the hallway to the unload area. At Spaceship Earth, yes, I get sent around back - but then have to wait to board, probably longer than Guests who entered through the front. Pirates of the Caribbean? I haven't been on that at WDW in over five years, and then only because somebody offered to push me in a wheelchair through the entire regular line, since ECVs don't fit. Small World is another attraction where ECV/WC Guests enter through the exit - but that doesn't mean we board faster than anybody else.
Kilimanjaro Safari ride, ECV/WC Guests go through most of the regular line with everybody else before being shunted off to the HP boarding area. The safari vehicle sits there until it fills up - so it may seem like we're getting ahead of you all, but we're waiting longer to actually get started. Kali River Rapids, the ECV/WC Guests may get directed to a different line - but then have to wait for the one raft that gets 'captured' for easier boarding. Again, probably a longer wait than the ambulatory Guests.
And the buses? Yes, you have to wait while we board. Then WE have to wait while YOU all get off the bus FIRST.

We have never gotten to the front of the line except on the Indiana Jones ride at Disneyland. We have taken 8 trips that I can remember to DL with my fil, I guess if I am "flat wrong" and have forgotten the joy of some special treatment so be it. Sometimes fil has gone in through the exit and waited for us to go through the regular line. It has been my understanding and observation that at WDW (a newer more accessible park than DL) the ride ques are big enough for the scooter to just move through the line like everybody else

I don't think you're misremembering much, if anything. DisneyLand - and moreso California Adventure - seemed extremely accessible to me. As much as possible, I went through the regular lines; in fact, I would even argue with the CMs in FantasyLand because, since those lines aren't accessible handicap Guests use the exit. I was perfectly willing to wait the fifteen minutes or whatever that the Guests in the regular line had to wait. But the CMs would usually pretty much insist on putting on the next ride vehicle. After the first few arguments, I stopped and just boarded when they told me to.

I would think that a HP sticker or a doctor's note would be a prerequisite for renting a scooter. All of the above posters who had legitimate reasons for needing one (even for a temporary condition) would easily be able to get such a note

Actually, I think that's an invasion of privacy - Disney can't ask for proof. In addition, my HP placard (please keep in mind that stickers have absolutely NO legal standing) is either in my car at home or in my rental car. I can't also present it to wheelchair rental.

That being said, can someone answer the one question I've always had (and this is an honest question)? When you're waiting in line for a bus at park closing time and there are 2-3 bus loads of people waiting in line, why does a person in a scooter (and their whole troop) get to drive right past all the line and get on the first bus before the people that have been waiting in line ahead of them?

Well, ECV/WC Guests have to wait in a special, marked area so the bus driver sees them. Plus, I think it'd sometimes be hard to maneuver through the chained or roped waiting areas.
On the other hand, I've approached a bus stop just as the bus is pulling up and there's a long line; except in an emergency, I usually tell the driver I'll wait for the next bus.

I would actually like to see a policy in place where only people with legitimate medical issues can rent scooters-- kind of like getting a handicapped parking decal. I don't think being morbidly obese and unfit is really a good enough reason to rent a scooter, *unless* the weight is caused by a legitimate medical condition.

Actually, those handicap decals - assuming you mean the square blue stickers with the white wheelchair symbol - have absolutely no legal standing. While I don't think you can buy them everywhere, they are or were readily available enough. And not that I'm defending morbid obesity, but SSI actually does consider it a disability!

 

[Amy&Dan]

I don't see that statement as being uncompassionate. You can not ride the mules down the Grand Canyon unless you are under a certain weight. Do you think they should change that and make special arrangement to transport the overweight. I don't. I think there is too much of lets make everything available to everyone.

If someone has a true medical reason for riding a scooter then fine, if not they don't need one.

I do find it interesting and I would not be surprised if some of the very ones that think the overweight are being mistreated in this thread are the first to rally for the No Smoking at Disney and have no compassion for those that do smoke.

Yeah, I know a lot of overweight people who in between eating and driving scooters they aren't entitled to, want a bigger pack mule for their Grand Canyon vacation.

So what is a "true" medical reason? If you have lung cancer from smoking can you get one? If you lost a leg cause you accidentally ran a stop sign or maybe didn't have your seatbelt on forget it, bring your own scooter or hobble, right? Do you see the problem here? There is no way to tell what anybody's case history is. If somebody is overweight and rents a scooter because of it, I don't think they are asking for special treatment. They are paying a price literally and figuratively for decisions they made. Just like the smoker on oxygen riding in their scooter. I don't base my compassion on a perfection scale. I can't tell you how many times when I go to the oncologist with my mother I see smokers in there and I feel every bit as bad for them as I do my mother, who has breast cancer. You on the other hand, come across as somebody that thinks fat people (including your aunt you describe so fondly) deserve what they get and should just suffer in silence.

 

[handicap18]

We got back a few days ago and if it we're not for a scooter we probably would not have been able to go. My MIL has had a stroke and a mild heart attack in the last 8 years. She has trouble walking from the living room to the kitchen sometimes. She was very nervous about using one because of not wanting to hurt anyone or herself. It ended up working out well. There would have been to possible way she would have been able to walk from the bus area at MK to the enterance let alone walk around the park.

RE: Buses. Sure we did get on first but we were always the last ones off the bus. She never sat on the scooter in the bus, but I would never sit in a seat. I would instead would stand right behind the scooter holding our stroller on top of the scooter so that other people would be less burdened by it.

No one got hit, however, there was one young woman at MGM who first sat down right in front of my 3 1/2 year old son at the parade so he couldn't see, then stood up in front of everyone at the end of the parade and to add insult to injury, right after the parade took her own stroller and proceeded to litterally run over my 13 month old daughter (back wheel went up into her neck) who was sitting right at my wife's legs (who was also sitting). The woman gave a quick I'm sorry and ran off as my daughter was screaming. I didn't know about her sitting in front of my son till afterwards, had I known that I would have ran after her myself and verbally slapper her around.

Sorry I got a bit off topic at the end.

It's amazing how many people have no common courtesy.

I grew up with "A little courtesy wont kill you."

 

[jann1033]

ita and i thought the same thing when i read all the fat lazy comments. the side of me with horns always kind of "hopes" those with such enormous compassion and evidently medical degrees in their pockets or x ray vision ( tongue firmly in cheek) find out first hand just how"advantageous" it is to be disabled, no matter what the cause... (then the good side of me slaps the horned side of me and i snap out of it at least temporarily )

someone might have mentioned this but if you are not used to needing a wheelchair/ecv/stroller you probably don't think to look every time you step out. they are not at eye level so are harder to see.so sometimes those accidents are no doubt just that... mistakes on someones part( or both parties usually) and not vigilante ecv-ers

as far as no smoking issue mentioned at the end of sammie's comment , even if every single ecv user used one because they overate they are not going to make you overweight/sick whereas sorry to inform but second hand smoke is dangerous to others and makes them sick. don't think you can really use that analogy in this case.

now on to refillable mugs, pool hopping, rude brazilians and letting your kids pee in the bushes

 

[DVCLiz]

I don't see that statement as being uncompassionate. You can not ride the mules down the Grand Canyon unless you are under a certain weight. Do you think they should change that and make special arrangement to transport the overweight. I don't. I think there is too much of lets make everything available to everyone.

If someone has a true medical reason for riding a scooter then fine, if not they don't need one.

I do find it interesting and I would not be surprised if some of the very ones that think the overweight are being mistreated in this thread are the first to rally for the No Smoking at Disney and have no compassion for those that do smoke.

Disney has made smoking areas available for their guests who smoke. They are clearly marked on each park map, and there is equipment specifically made for smokers (ashtrays and ash receptacles) at each designated smoking area. You don't have to prove that you're a regular heavy smoker in order to use them - even the one cigarette at a party types can light up freely, and without people walking by saying, "She doesn't look like she REALLY needs that cigarette - why does SHE get to have one? That area should be reserved for those who LOOK like heavy smokers."

It just seems to me that making judgements about who does and doesn't "need" a scooter is pointless. You can't possibly know someone's circumstances, so you're judging based on appearance, and that's sterotypical and even a little narrow minded, in my book. I'd rather assume that most people who use scooters do so because they can't enjoy a Disney vacation without them, and I don't think a Disney vacation should be off-limits if reasonable use of a motorized scooter can make it accessible.

Just my opinion...

 

[Sammie]

you know I enjoy a good discussion as much as anyone, but when it is obvious that some can't understand what you are saying or even attempt to; then it becomes a moot point to even comment any further.

 

[DVCLiz]

I understand perfectly well what you are saying - I just think it's wrong!!!! That's what makes it a discussion instead of a one-sided argument...

 

[Sammie]

I understand perfectly well what you are saying - I just think it's wrong!!!! That's what makes it a discussion instead of a one-sided argument...

Actually you missed my point, completely, but whatever it's not worth the effort to explain it again.

 

[lizanne]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread and I'm not sure how it went from handicapped people using scooters to people who are fat and lazy but here is my two cents.

We just returned from WDW and it was a huge problem walking through the parks with all the scooters and double strollers.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not all the people using both the scooters and double strollers need them but it is a problem. Maybe Disney should consider marking off lanes to be used by motorized and oversized vehicles. I don't mean this to be funny, inconsiderate or offensive, I just see this as a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[DVCLiz]

Actually you missed my point, completely, but whatever it's not worth the effort to explain it again.

I don't think I missed your point at all. I think your point is that people who are overweight shouldn't be allowed access to scooters at Walt Disney World because they do not have a true medical need. And that if people who are overweight can't walk the amount necessary to visit a Disney park, they should go on vacation somewhere else.

I think we're just on opposite sides of the argument...I think people who are overweight DO have a legitimate medical need, and that they SHOULD be allowed to use scooters without judgement from others.

 

[DVCLiz]

I haven't read all the posts on this thread and I'm not sure how it went from handicapped people using scooters to people who are fat and lazy but here is my two cents.

We just returned from WDW and it was a huge problem walking through the parks with all the scooters and double strollers.

It doesn't matter to me whether or not all the people using both the scooters and double strollers need them but it is a problem. Maybe Disney should consider marking off lanes to be used by motorized and oversized vehicles. I don't mean this to be funny, inconsiderate or offensive, I just see this as a problem that needs to be addressed.

And how do we KNOW that the children in those double strollers really NEED to be riding??? (Lizanne - I'm just having fun, not making fun of your comment, with which I totally agree!! I've had some run-ins with strollers, too, although oddly enough never with a scooter person!!)

 

[kimbac3]

Just a quick note ...for what it's worth...I was at Magic Kingdom the other day and saw/overheard a young girl (teenager) on an ECV and the cast member was questioning her as to who was actually going to be using the ECV. She told him it was for her grandmom...don't know what became of the situation. I just wanted to let you know that a cast member was using some common sense and asking questions.
I should have used one at the parks and paid dearly with pain for not using it. I had read these threads before and was scared to use one. I was afraid I'd hit someone or people would think I was just joy riding. I'm really sorry I didn't. I know I was a bit of a burden because of my slow walking and pain. Next time I will definitely rent a wheelchair or maybe an ECV. More likely a wheelchair. I had some issues with ECV drivers myself. Most were fine but for example this one lady was zooming alomg and waving her hand saying "move - move" . It wasn't crowded she could have drove around us.....what's that saying - One bad apple....
Kimba

 

[jann1033]

And how do we KNOW that the children in those double strollers really NEED to be riding???


and we all know how are fat and lazy babies can be ,i've personally seen some that just lay around and eat , sleep and poop all day and you think they need to ride around????, make those infants crawl and get that baby fat off

 

[ClarabelleCow]

Well being 70 pounds overweight, I DO NOT THINK I should even be able to get a scooter!!! I have a need to get off my butt, exercise, eat right, work on my cardio, so that I am not pooped out and can keep up with my kids. If I did all that, than my vericose veins in my legs wouldn't hurt and my hip would't hurt as well! Sorry, I just can't imagine getting a scooter because I am overweight and out of shape and can't get myself around the parks for the day without being tired! I know everyones situation is different, but the one family I overheard really got me mad! The scooters should be used by those that can't get around any other way. Not by the few that don't want to be inconvenienced by going a little slower to catch their breath!