JonBenet Ramsey - a question for those who follow this story

[wilkeliza]

JonBenet was not molested- at least not immediately prior to her death. That was brought out last night in the program. It is also what sealed it for me that Patsy and John could have covered up her accidental death.

The original coroners report calls out trama to the area that happen close enough to the death to be called out in the autopsy. I believe the report from a professional over some talking heads from a bias television show.

 

[msjprincess]

JonBenet was not molested- at least not immediately prior to her death. That was brought out last night in the program. It is also what sealed it for me that Patsy and John could have covered up her accidental death.
That's not what the medical examiner said after the autopsy


I read way back when that John had left the house for a period of time. It has been years but I remember thinking it odd that he would leave. Also, thought it was weird that he was calling his pilot. John wanted to get the heck out of there. I could understand going to a hotel or something but man your daughter has been murdered. Stay and help the police. That isn't true it was proven years ago that him leaving the house was one of the fake leaks by the police.

Burke had a bad temper. He had hit JonBenet with a golf club in the past. A friend interviewed last night said that Patsy told her that Burke got mad at JonBenet and hit her with the club. Past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. Yes he accidentally hit her on his back swing. He didn't beat her with a golf club.

As for biased, Dr.Phil interviewing Burke was biased as well. Burke is weird and inappropriate in his interview and was that way during his interviews not long after JonBenet's murder. So? Some people are just odd, doesn't make them killers.

We don't know who murdered that poor young girl and probably never will. We are all entitled to our opinions.

How did the murderer, if it was someone outside of the family, get into the house? It wasn't through the basement window. How do you know that? Were you there? Even if it wasn't the basement window they could have gotten in some other way and not left evidence. My house was burglarized when I was a kid. We never figured out how they got in the house.

My responses are in bold

 

[cabanafrau]

JonBenet was not molested- at least not immediately prior to her death. That was brought out last night in the program. It is also what sealed it for me that Patsy and John could have covered up her accidental death.



I read way back when that John had left the house for a period of time. It has been years but I remember thinking it odd that he would leave. Also, thought it was weird that he was calling his pilot. John wanted to get the heck out of there. I could understand going to a hotel or something but man your daughter has been murdered. Stay and help the police.

Burke had a bad temper. He had hit JonBenet with a golf club in the past. A friend interviewed last night said that Patsy told her that Burke got mad at JonBenet and hit her with the club. Past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior.

As for biased, Dr.Phil interviewing Burke was biased as well. Burke is weird and inappropriate in his interview and was that way during his interviews not long after JonBenet's murder.

We don't know who murdered that poor young girl and probably never will. We are all entitled to our opinions.

How did the murderer, if it was someone outside of the family, get into the house? It wasn't through the basement window.

Who vetted the information presented in the program? Did it follow the court rules for evidence that can be presented legally in court? Who was given the opportunity to challenge said evidence? What credentials do you have that allow you to decide they could have covered up the crime? Have you personally inspected the raw evidence and examined the chain of evidence and any expert evaluation of the evidence.

You read way back that he left and thought it was odd? I've read right in this thread within the past week or so that it has been proven he didn't leave the home at all? Is your opinion more valid because it's older, or is mine more up-to-date with the facts as they're known now?

I've heard he hit her when she walked behind the backswing of his club. Once again, whose opinion carries more weight?

Burke was biased? Yes, I'm sure he is, as are you, I and every other person on this thread. What does that have to do with the case or whether or not his bias impacts his recollection of the events? If you are odd does that mean you're guilty of a crime? It's been suggested he has Asperger's. If so, that information hasn't been publicly released. Are people with Asperger's more likely to commit murders? Shouldn't the public have the right to know if he is on the spectrum?

How do you know definitively someone could not get through that window? Is that the only possibility of an intruder getting in that home? Are you positive the home was absolutely secured while the family was out that evening?

 

[wilkeliza]

I find it interesting that people assume there must be signs for entry. If every outside door doesn't have a deadbolt engaged many are able to be picked or even unlocked with things like credit cards or hangers. Did the Ramsey's have any doors to the outside that did not have deadbolts? If that is the case someone could have easily gotten in.

 

[nugov2]

No, I don't think it's suspicious that she may not have washed the underwear. Frankly, people were a lot less aware/germphobic, etc back then and I'm not sure most people would have washed an unopened package of underwear. I'm also not prepared to make statements about what would or would not make the DNA go away -- washing might not always remove all DNA in every case.
I think the hypothetical situations only slant towards the Ramseys when that is what the reader wants to see.


Only if you refuse to even consider many of the other reasonable explanations put forward. In fact, I think a person covering up is more likely to dispose of the clothes they were wearing.

I said odd, not suspicious. 1996 wasn't so long ago that I know my underwear was being washed prior to wearing them, but it is possible PR didn't wash JBR. I just find it odd that the dna and blood are explained away so easily only because it would mean they are wrong about the parents.

I agree that a person covering up would dispose of not continue wearing the clothes.

JonBenet was not molested- at least not immediately prior to her death. That was brought out last night in the program

Burke had a bad temper. He had hit JonBenet with a golf club in the past. A friend interviewed last night said that Patsy told her that Burke got mad at JonBenet and hit her with the club. Past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior.

As for biased, Dr.Phil interviewing Burke was biased as well. Burke is weird and inappropriate in his interview and was that way during his interviews not long after JonBenet's murder.

We don't know who murdered that poor young girl and probably never will. We are all entitled to our opinions.

How did the murderer, if it was someone outside of the family, get into the house? It wasn't through the basement window.

That was one expert opinion others say otherwise. His explanation for the blood getting in her underwear is weak in the cbs interview.

The person giving that testimony is the media ***** who has been selling JBR photos for her own personal gain and featured in almost every JBR show (she is paid) . I find her "testimony " suspect. I haven't heard another family friend back up this claim. She is the only one speaking out against them that I have heard of (maybe I missed someone), but she has made money off of the death of a child and a supposed family friend. She is a disgusting human being IMO.

I think there is evidence that they did get into the basement theough the window, but they certainly could have used a door. As far as the spider web being there....it takes an hour for a spider to make a web. Is it not possible after the murderer left and before the police took photos, a spider made a web.

 

[pryncess527]

I find it interesting that people assume there must be signs for entry. If every outside door doesn't have a deadbolt engaged many are able to be picked or even unlocked with things like credit cards or hangers. Did the Ramsey's have any doors to the outside that did not have deadbolts? If that is the case someone could have easily gotten in.

Not just doors with no deadbolts -- doors left unlocked. As, frankly, many people in the midwest might have done in the 90s. My mother still doesn't lock her door.

 

[Miskey]

JonBenet was not molested- at least not immediately prior to her death. That was brought out last night in the program. It is also what sealed it for me that Patsy and John could have covered up her accidental death

The credible accounts that I have seen have all said she was


I read way back when that John had left the house for a period of time. It has been years but I remember thinking it odd that he would leave. Also, thought it was weird that he was calling his pilot. John wanted to get the heck out of there. I could understand going to a hotel or something but man your daughter has been murdered. Stay and help the police.

That's been proven to be one of the many lies that was leaked to the media by the boulder pd. He never left the house.

Burke had a bad temper. He had hit JonBenet with a golf club in the past. A friend interviewed last night said that Patsy told her that Burke got mad at JonBenet and hit her with the club. Past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior.

You're going to based the fact that Burke had a bad temper on the uncorroborated statement of a "family friend"? I call bs on her entire story for 2 reasons. 1- A woman that is willing to desecrate her dead daughter's body in order to cover for her son killing her is not the kind of woman that is going to tell a casual family friend that Burke purposely hit JonBenet with a gold club. She would hide it. 2- Crazy lady said that after JonBenet was killed she took her daughter to the house to see Burke. A mother is not going to bring her daughter to see a boy she thinks is unstable with a bad temper. I would love to see Burke sue the ever loving daylights out of this woman


As for biased, Dr.Phil interviewing Burke was biased as well. Burke is weird and inappropriate in his interview and was that way during his interviews not long after JonBenet's murder.

Looking at family pictures and videos from even before the murder you can see that Burke was always awkward. Being awkward and not acting in ways that a few people deem as appropriate does not make you a murderer.

We don't know who murdered that poor young girl and probably never will. We are all entitled to our opinions.

How did the murderer, if it was someone outside of the family, get into the house? It wasn't through the basement window.

I believe it was the basement window

 

[CdnCarrie]

I read way back when that John had left the house for a period of time. It has been years but I remember thinking it odd that he would leave. Also, thought it was weird that he was calling his pilot. John wanted to get the heck out of there. I could understand going to a hotel or something but man your daughter has been murdered. Stay and help the police.

That is false. He never left the house. The police officer did lose sight of him when she told him to go search the house.

Burke had a bad temper. He had hit JonBenet with a golf club in the past.

He swung the club and his sister happen to be standing behind him and got clipped on the cheek.

 

[nugov2]

Not just doors with no deadbolts -- doors left unlocked. As, frankly, many people in the midwest might have done in the 90s. My mother still doesn't lock her door.

My dad leaves his keys in the car and doors unlocked. It makes me so angry!!!

 

[Miskey]

As far as the grand jury indicting the Ramsey's, I think it's important to remember that they indicted based on statements made to the by the Boulder PD. Many of those statements have been proven to be outright lies. The indictment is completely worthless as a tool to judge the Ramsey's guilt

As far as Patsy's clothes, personally speaking, when I go to bed, I lay the clothes I had on that day at the foot of my bed. There have been a couple of times in my life where I quickly dressed for one reason or another and simply put those clothes back on

 

[cabanafrau]

Makes me wonder if the story of him leaving the house originated with the officer who decided it was a good idea to keep the cordial killer busy by searching the potential crime scene? Surely they would have no incentive to keep a hard finger pointed at him as the killer?

 

[cabanafrau]

As far as the grand jury indicting the Ramsey's, I think it's important to remember that they indicted based on statements made to the by the Boulder PD. Many of those statements have been proven to be outright lies. The indictment is completely worthless as a tool to judge the Ramsey's guilt

As far as Patsy's clothes, personally speaking, when I go to bed, I lay the clothes I had on that day at the foot of my bed. There have been a couple of times in my life where I quickly dressed for one reason or another and simply put those clothes back on

And it bears mentioning, an indictment is not meant to be a tool to judge guilt.

ETA, the PD has been proven to have made statements lying to the grand jury?

 

[Miskey]

ETA, the PD has been proven to have made statements lying to the grand jury?

Poor wording on my part. Based on all the blatant lies the PD told, I ASSUME it was lies that led the grand jury to indict.

 

[cabanafrau]

Poor wording on my part. Based on all the blatant lies the PD told, I ASSUME it was lies that led the grand jury to indict.

With the profile of the case, the previous contention with the prosecutor over the investigation and the means of the Ramsey family, and likely their powerful friends as well, it would be incredibly risky for the police to go in front of the grand jury and blatantly lie. Certain game over for careers and criminal prosecution for perjury if proven.

 

[kidshop]

Poor wording on my part. Based on all the blatant lies the PD told, I ASSUME it was lies that led the grand jury to indict.

I think the grand jury interviewed participants in the case including Burke, John Andrew and Melinda as well as LE

 

[Sandy Cross]

I find it hard to swallow that people of their means, would just accept that a vegetable was the only option so immediately, without the consult of a doctor. I honestly find the entire theory you've posted to be one of the most ludicrous and unbelievable scenarios floated. It may seem like a reasonable explanation to you, but our minds clearly work in very different ways.

Yes they do as they should that's what makes us unique I know if it was my child my first thought would be get help but as you said everyone is different

 

[Sandy Cross]

No, I don't think it's suspicious that she may not have washed the underwear. Frankly, people were a lot less aware/germphobic, etc back then and I'm not sure most people would have washed an unopened package of underwear. I'm also not prepared to make statements about what would or would not make the DNA go away -- washing might not always remove all DNA in every case.
I think the hypothetical situations only slant towards the Ramseys when that is what the reader wants to see.


Only if you refuse to even consider many of the other reasonable explanations put forward. In fact, I think a person covering up is more likely to dispose of the clothes they were wearing.

But that is why wearing the same clothes patsy threw her self on her dead child's body under the Christmas tree so if there was any transfer patsy could say it happened when she threw herself on her child's body

 

[Sandy Cross]

Or pats

Replace "bedroom" with "house" and I'd agree with you -- but there is no reason for us to beleive she planned to leave the house that way. It's not like she showered and put those clothes back on. She threw something on to go to the kitchen and make coffee and wake up the kids. We have no way of knowing what was normal or in character for her, even as a Southern Beauty Queen, when walking around her own home with no guests in the morning.

I have personally known more than one woman who might be called a Southern Beauty Queen, but they do exist in their own homes without their "faces on" ;p

Or Patsy had the clothes on all night and was otherwise occupied writing a ransom note and staging the crime scene

 

[Sandy Cross]

What about the hair ties all over the bathroom floor it has been said that Patsy used the hair ties to section off Jon benet's hair when she dyed it!! They were supposed be going on a trip early the next morning!! Another theory being talked about is Jon Benet fell asleep on the car ride home from the Christmas Party !! Patsy woke Jon Benet up to dye her hair for the trip the next morning !! Jon Benet was tired and cranky she didn't want to dye her hair she wanted to go to bed !! Jon Benet either pulled away or Patsy shoved her and Jon Benet fell and cracked her skull on the bathtub and then when Patsy told John they saw that Jon Benet was near death and they together staged the crime scene

 

[mnrose]

What about the hair ties all over the bathroom floor it has been said that Patsy used the hair ties to section off Jon benet's hair when she dyed it!! They were supposed be going on a trip early the next morning!! Another theory being talked about is Jon Benet fell asleep on the car ride home from the Christmas Party !! Patsy woke Jon Benet up to dye her hair for the trip the next morning !! Jon Benet was tired and cranky she didn't want to dye her hair she wanted to go to bed !! Jon Benet either pulled away or Patsy shoved her and Jon Benet fell and cracked her skull on the bathtub and then when Patsy told John they saw that Jon Benet was near death and they together staged the crime scene

Now, why in the world if this theory is correct would they "stage" a murder? Seriously. What you have described is an ACCIDENT. While tragic and terrible, it would have been an ACCIDENT. But, rather than get this daughter medical attention in an effort to save her life, instead they strangle her, molest her, and write a ransom note. Coming to that conclusion is frankly bizarre and would have us believe that these people had no love for their children. There is simply no evidence of this.

My son once took a terrible fall and landed on his head. It scared the ever loving crap out of me. I immediately scooped him up and drove him to the ER (which was very close....it would have taken longer to wait for an ambulance, frankly). I didn't give ONE moments thought to "gee, what if he dies and they charge me with manslaughter, so I better finish him off, and make it look like an intruder murder." Good grief. Why in the world is this "scenario" even remotely plausible in people's heads?