Is it wrong to spank your child?

[Texan Mouseketeer]

When we spank, it is usually because he has hurt someone, namely me or my DH. As for stealing something, we have already dealt with that: After we got home from church one week, he pulled a toy out of his pocket that he had taken from his Sunday School class. I took the toy away, explained that it was not right to take something that did not belong to him, and the next week he had to personally return it to the teacher and apologize. I think he learned his lesson - now every week he shows me there is nothing in his pockets when we are leaving.

I am open to suggestions on what to do besides spanking. However, you have to realize I have a very strong-willed, stubborn child, and he may not respond the same as children who do not have that type of personality. We do timeout, I have taken away priveledges, and I have taken away so many favorite toys that at one point I had the entire contents of his toy box in my closet. Most of the time these things are effective, but there are times when he just is being stubborn and doesn't care. At that point, what are the other means of discipline people use?

One thing we did that worked was we bought my son a GameBoy. It was something he really really wanted and we weren't wanting to buy it for him because 1) the price, 2) he seemed a little young for it, but he loved video games and 3) he didn't deserve it because of how he was acting! But, we got it and used it as leverage. You talk back, no GameBoy for a day. You get sent to the office at school (pre-k at his day care)...no GameBoy until your teacher says you have had two good days in a row. Each time he got the GameBoy taken away he cried and cried. So, it has worked for us pretty well - BUT not all the time and not for every instance. My son has so many behavior issues that cutting even a few of them back is great!
The last time he was spanked was when he hit the baby in the face with a hanger. No matter what, we must also ensure her safety. He also hasn't tried to hurt her again.

 

[Texan Mouseketeer]

I couldn't tell you what parenting book I got this out of...but, when I was in my 'I'm desperate and will try anything mode', I read a book that said when the kid won't sit in time out to put them in your lap and restrain them. Put your arms around them like a straight (SP?) jacket and not let them up until they calm down. Well, I tried it I think twice. He never did calm down, I just eventually had to let him up. My son was sooooo traumatized it made me cry. I kept thinking, this was in a book and supposed to work! Then, later on, I read another book about how damaging this is and all the things it can do to a child like messing up their thinking, causing them to have an adrenaline rush because the 'fight or flight' mode, etc. Great...Plus, now we're seeing kids who stop breathing when being restrained and how there's a right way to restrain and all this stuff. Needless to say, I felt really really guilty and short of maybe Dr. Phil and the What to Expect books I haven't been doing a lot of reading parenting books! I have lost my faith in the so called 'experts'.

 

[disneymom3]

I have also read Your Strong Willed Child by that nut-job Dobson. It was one of the most disturbing books I have ever read.

Very nice.

For what it's worth, I remember nothing about a switch. What I remember is, that he advocates the parent clearly communicating to the child that the parent is the one in charge. I also remember that spanking was not his first method of discipline but that it was warranted in some cases. I also remember that his big huge emphasis was that after the child is spanked you let them cry for a minute or two and then go to them hold them and tell them you love them and are not happy with the specific behavior. Doesn't sound like nutjob advice to me.

 

[mcnuss]

Spanking teaches children that it's ok to resolve problems by hitting.

If I did not like your behavior and I hit you, you'd have me arrested for battery. It's no different if you hit your kid.

There is no gray area.

 

[Goobergal99]

I have a question for you, when you punish your child with whatever method you use, do you talk to them about what they've done wrong? If you find a talk w/ the child before a spanking sick and creepy then what's the difference between you talking to them about what they've done wrong? Like I've said this is our LAST resort and I treat all of their punishments equally. If they've sassed me I've talked to them and explained to them this is where you went wrong and this is the consequence. Sick and creepy, I think not.

No, I do understand how you could misread this, however I do not find talking with your child creepy what I mean to say is that parents who say to their child "Ok, jr bend over because you are going to be spanked for what you did now" apear to me to be just a little bit creepy. It almost seems inappropriate to do this to your child, not to mention demeaning.

 

[Goobergal99]

You are confusing SPANKING with ABUSE! Two totally different things.

No, I believe that spanking is just a semantic word for abuse, so there is no confusion on this end. When you hit your child you are in fact abusing them in my eyes. It is all up to your own perception anyway, I feel that using any type of corporal punishment is abusive.
Also, there is a significant difference between grabbing your toddlers arm because they are about to run into a crowded street and smacking your child in the face because they said something you didn't feel was appropriate. I'm sorry but that to me is abuse.

 

[poohandwendy]

No, I believe that spanking is just a semantic word for abuse, so there is no confusion on this end. When you hit your child you are in fact abusing them in my eyes. It is all up to your own perception anyway, I feel that using any type of corporal punishment is abusive.
Also, there is a significant difference between grabbing your toddlers arm because they are about to run into a crowded street and smacking your child in the face because they said something you didn't feel was appropriate. I'm sorry but that to me is abuse.

That is precisely why YOU should not spank YOUR children.

 

[poohandwendy]

While we are on the subject of parenting styles we disagree with, I'll jump on my soapbox for a minute.

I don't believe in the current trend of 'gentle parenting' that I have seen lately. (I am not talking about the book or it's contents, I haven't read it) I am talking about soft voices at all times, explaining to your children why they are being disciplined, reminding them that they are loved when they are doing the wrong thing, trying to shelter your children from any feelings that are not happiness.

IMHO, children are supposed to learn to deal with all feelings...including sadness, shame, pain, humilation. I don't believe in reminding my children that I love them in the middle of their outburst or when they are doing the wrong thing. My love is unconditional and an irrelevant part of the discussion when they are being disciplined. They get positive reinforcement when they are behaving positively.

When my kids do the wrong thing, they should feel bad. That is how you are supposed to feel when you do the wrong thing. They need to feel that. That is what makes them want to avoid repeating that behavior. I don't agree with doing everything possible to make sure they don't have those feelings. They need to know that the consequences of bad or dangerous behavior includes pain, shame, hurt, sadness, humilation, punishment. My goal in disciplining is not about solidifying our loving relationship. It is about teaching them to be independent people who can make it in the world. My parenting goals are not about this minute...but about the future, when they are not under my roof anymore. The world will not coddle them...it is my job to teach them that.

(notice that I talked about what I believe is right for MY children, not others. I respect that everyone as the right to raise their children as they see fit)

 

[jgmklmhem]

While we are on the subject of parenting styles we disagree with, I'll jump on my soapbox for a minute.

I don't believe in the current trend of 'gentle parenting' that I have seen lately. (I am not talking about the book or it's contents, I haven't read it) I am talking about soft voices at all times, explaining to your children why they ae being disciplined, reminding them that they are loved when they are doing the wrong thing, trying to shelter your children from any feelings that are not happiness.

IMHO, children are supposed to learn to deal with all feelings...including sadness, shame, pain, humilation included. I don't believe in reminding my children that I love them in the middle of their outburst or when they are doing the wrong thing. My love is unconditional and an irrelevant part of the discussion when they are being disciplined. They get positive reinforcement when they are behaving positively.

When my kids do the wrong thing, they should feel bad. That is how you are supposed to feel when you do the wrong thing. They need to feel that. That is what makes them want to avoid repeating that behavior. I don't agree with doing everything possible to make sure they don't have those feelings. They need to know that the consequences of bad or dangerous behavior includes pain, shame, hurt, sadness, humilation, punishment. My goal in parenting is not about solidifying our loving relationship. It is about teaching them to be independent people who can make it in the world. My parenting goals are not about this minute...but about the future, when they are not under my roof anymore. The world will not coddle them...it is my job to teach them that.

(notice that I talked about what I believe is right for MY children, not others. I respect that everyone as the right to raise their children as they see fit)

You go girl!!!! and I agree! Sheltering kids from feeling the full range of emotions both good and bad is in my opinion going to be a bad thing in the long run because life isn't like that. There is always going to be good and bad and what makes a good person is how they deal with it. I am sure there are many well known smart important people who have said this but can't quote anyone specifically...Once you have had the bad the good feels sooooooo much better.

 

[Goobergal99]

I am not trying to Upset you Poohandwendy, please understand that this is just how I feel about it. I too was bottle fed (not public schooled but then again i lived in a bad part of the city when i was school aged) however, my daughter is public schooled and is currently in a very good school in the area of the city we are afforded to live in now. I was a latch key kid as well, my mom worked and my pop was in a senior citizens club, so I came home, locked the door and did my homework and waited for my mom to get home at 5:00. In fact I even had the key sewn into my uniform. I am not a stay at home mother, as my mother wasnt either. DH and I work hard together, although we have been lucky enough to work out our schedule so that DD never has to be alone (not that being a latch key kid was horrible, infact I think it has attributed to my maturity)

As you can see, I am not some sheltered new age parent. I just think that spanking my child is never warranted. However, I have a very obediant child as well who knows when to cut it out if she is getting out of hand in any way. When I yell, she knows to chill it out cause mommy isnt playing.

I also agree with you that I can't stand this new hippy approach to parenting where the parent talks to the child as though they are in group therapy. But then again I can't stand it when I hear that parents are going out and wasting money on books written by mostly childless therapists who are eating up your hard earned money by telling you how to raise your kid (that goes for the parenting magazines too) Kids don't come with guidebooks and instruction manuals, you have to learn it all on your own and if you try hard in the end you will have a great kid. I know I do

 

[glass-slipper]

This discussion came up with my siblings when we were all vacationing together this last week. My son is known as the "best behaved" child, but I am the only one who thinks spankings are sometimes warranted. DH and I will spank if we have sent DH to timeout, but, well, it doesn't work. He is a very stubborn child, there are rare occasions when he will be sent to timeout, refuse to stay there, we will sit there with him to make him stay, and then he will do something like bite us. That is when he gets the spanking, and he knows it. My siblings tell me I am wrong (we come from an abusive home), but at that point I believe he needs it. Opinions? (Flame suit on)

You say spanking doesn't work, then why continue to spank?

Another alternative to time-out, taking away a toy or priveledge would maybe be to deny a much anticipated event like a visit to a friends house, a trip to the zoo, chuckecheese, the park etc. while of course explaining why the behavior is inappropriate and these are the consequences.

I voted no to spanking ever.

 

[kessieann]

Wow, some of you parents who have never thought once about using spanking as discipline must have the most angelic kids. You are very lucky! Mine is just the normal kind that talks back and misbehaves no matter how many time outs she is given.

We have done Clear, Concise, Consistent Consequences (another "expert" method in a book) and she could care less. We read Dr. Sears when she was a baby which we believe may have caused her many of the issues we still deal with today. In our own experience attachment parenting did nothing but make our child think the world revolved around her. I guess we must have done it wrong

So according to previous posts I have read... I would say we have taken the time and energy to read the so called expert books-Good Parents we must love our child , but I still believe in spanking-Bad parents we must be abusive. However, I don't equate the number of books I have read to how much I love my child. Quite frankly I am sick of the so called experts and the self-help books. My parents raised 5 successful children and yes we were all spanked and not once did I see my mom reaching for any books.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that each parent needs to do what is right for his/her child. (I am going with the assumptioin that we all love our kids, want whats best for them and are not abusing them (which I don't believe spanking is.) The fact that everyone here at least cares enough to discipline their child is a good thing to hear considering how many kids are just left to do what they want. I think anyone who posted here today has shown that they think and consider and care about how they raise their kids. Hooray for us!!

 

[tiggersmom2]

Also, there is a significant difference between grabbing your toddlers arm because they are about to run into a crowded street and smacking your child in the face because they said something you didn't feel was appropriate. I'm sorry but that to me is abuse.

Good lord woman.....if you think spanking = slapping child in face then you don't need to spank!

 

[glass-slipper]

While we are on the subject of parenting styles we disagree with, I'll jump on my soapbox for a minute.

I don't believe in the current trend of 'gentle parenting' that I have seen lately. (I am not talking about the book or it's contents, I haven't read it) I am talking about soft voices at all times, explaining to your children why they are being disciplined, reminding them that they are loved when they are doing the wrong thing, trying to shelter your children from any feelings that are not happiness.

IMHO, children are supposed to learn to deal with all feelings...including sadness, shame, pain, humilation. I don't believe in reminding my children that I love them in the middle of their outburst or when they are doing the wrong thing. My love is unconditional and an irrelevant part of the discussion when they are being disciplined. They get positive reinforcement when they are behaving positively.

When my kids do the wrong thing, they should feel bad. That is how you are supposed to feel when you do the wrong thing. They need to feel that. That is what makes them want to avoid repeating that behavior. I don't agree with doing everything possible to make sure they don't have those feelings. They need to know that the consequences of bad or dangerous behavior includes pain, shame, hurt, sadness, humilation, punishment. My goal in disciplining is not about solidifying our loving relationship. It is about teaching them to be independent people who can make it in the world. My parenting goals are not about this minute...but about the future, when they are not under my roof anymore. The world will not coddle them...it is my job to teach them that.

(notice that I talked about what I believe is right for MY children, not others. I respect that everyone as the right to raise their children as they see fit)

I basically agree with most of what you said except for the explaining part. depending on the age of the child they need to understand what they did was wrong and why.

 

[tiggersmom2]

While we are on the subject of parenting styles we disagree with, I'll jump on my soapbox for a minute.

I don't believe in the current trend of 'gentle parenting' that I have seen lately. (I am not talking about the book or it's contents, I haven't read it) I am talking about soft voices at all times, explaining to your children why they are being disciplined, reminding them that they are loved when they are doing the wrong thing, trying to shelter your children from any feelings that are not happiness.

IMHO, children are supposed to learn to deal with all feelings...including sadness, shame, pain, humilation. I don't believe in reminding my children that I love them in the middle of their outburst or when they are doing the wrong thing. My love is unconditional and an irrelevant part of the discussion when they are being disciplined. They get positive reinforcement when they are behaving positively.

When my kids do the wrong thing, they should feel bad. That is how you are supposed to feel when you do the wrong thing. They need to feel that. That is what makes them want to avoid repeating that behavior. I don't agree with doing everything possible to make sure they don't have those feelings. They need to know that the consequences of bad or dangerous behavior includes pain, shame, hurt, sadness, humilation, punishment. My goal in disciplining is not about solidifying our loving relationship. It is about teaching them to be independent people who can make it in the world. My parenting goals are not about this minute...but about the future, when they are not under my roof anymore. The world will not coddle them...it is my job to teach them that.

(notice that I talked about what I believe is right for MY children, not others. I respect that everyone as the right to raise their children as they see fit)

Wendy,
I have said it many times but I am in awe......you just say it perfectly all the time!

 

[poohandwendy]

I am not trying to Upset you Poohandwendy, please understand that this is just how I feel about it.

LOL, you haven't upset me, not at all. This is probably (at least) the 15th spanking debate I have posted on in the years I have been on the DIS...and so far, this one is pretty tame. (actually, my signature came about after a few spirited parenting debates on the old Debate board)

I was just throwing out a few of the things that I don't agree with. I respect your right to have your opinion on the matter and to raise your children as you feel is appropriate.

I could count on my hands the amount of times my 3 children were spanked. It was effective for us. I can understand why others would feel differently.

 

[What the Heck]

You say spanking doesn't work, then why continue to spank?

Another alternative to time-out, taking away a toy or priveledge would maybe be to deny a much anticipated event like a visit to a friends house, a trip to the zoo, chuckecheese, the park etc. while of course explaining why the behavior is inappropriate and these are the consequences.

I voted no to spanking ever.

I see where you got your first sentance, but I believe you misread the OP. I read it as being that the timeout wasn't working and that was when the child would be spanked.

As for the 2nd paragraph, that was why I started my children on an allowance as soon as possible (my son was 4 and my daughter 5). For most things, it worked great. I would take a dime here, or a quarter there, depending on the offense. I told them I could discipline them in the middle of Wal-Mart and not have to worry about child services.

As for your last paragraph, I disagree with the no spanking croud. In my opinion, for some children, not spanking them is child abuse. For the wrong child, it teaches them that if they cause enough of a problem, they will get their way by wearing out their parent. I have know some parents who were so proud that they never spanked their child - who was in the process of tearing up as much as they could my medical facility.

My children were spanked - about once a year or so. If I had used it as my only parenting tool, it wouldn't have worked. By using it as the tool of last resort, it reinforced in them what was truly important. As has been said before, there is a huge difference between spanking and abuse.

 

[ktink]

I also agree with you on this one. When I talk to my kids it's not in a theraputic way. I want them to know they were wrong and I don't do the " jr, bend it over bit" either. You are so right about the guidebook and instruction manual because every child is very different and that's why it takes different means of discipline. When my kids are in trouble they need to know that they've done wrong. Discipline to me isn't a means of demeaning and hurting a child but merely to show them right from wrong. I love my kids with all of my heart and want them to be the best person they can be. And if I felt a spanking every now and then was wrong then I wouldn't do it. This is NOT something that we practice on a daily or weekly basis, it is only for extreme circumstances. I'm not angry with them, in fact when I am upset with them, I send them to their room so that everyone can settle down.

 

[poohandwendy]

I basically agree with most of what you said except for the explaining part. depending on the age of the child they need to understand what they did was wrong and why.

Actually, I wouldn't be disciplining a child who did not understand right from wrong. I would just remove them from the situation.

I am talking about a parent telling their 4 year old why they shouldn't bite another child, for example. Now I know my kids were not so much brighter than other 4 year olds in that they knew why biting other kids was the wrong thing. (that is the type of thing I am talking about)

 

[ktink]

Good lord woman.....if you think spanking = slapping child in face then you don't need to spank!

To me there is no comparison between the two.