Injury a few weeks before marathon - can you get a refund?

[olive]

My husband was on a long run training for the marathon in a few weeks and injured his ankle and knee pretty badly. He had to walk the last miles home. If he ends up not being able to run the marathon, can he get a refund? Perhaps with a doctor's note?

Thanks in advance! This is our first Disney marathon experience.

 

[Duanerice]

Sorry to hear about his injury. From what I understands there are no refunds regardless of the reason.

I have heard of people selling their bib if the race is sold out but that would be the only way.

Hopefully he will be able to race.

Duane

 

[cewait]

Likewise, sorry about the injury. Most races are fairly firm in the No Refund and No Transfer policies. I know it doesn't seem fair but that is the policy on the entry form agreed to when entered.

 

[lacrosse_lady72]

I just wanted to say I'm sorry and I feel your pain, I had to miss out on the Hood to Coast Relay (three 3.5-8mile legs) and the SF Women's Half this year due to an injury!

Hugs again (but not actual hugs because I'm not trying to go after your DH )

 

[JoanneNC]

Sorry to hear about the injury - their no refunds policy is pretty standard.. frustrating for sure....Hope your DH recovers quickly

 

[goofy57]

Give the endurance team a call and ask if you can use the entrance fee for 2011. I know you can do that at Disneyland if you can not run for some reason.

They will not give a refund, hopefully you use this years entry for 2011.

 

[cewait]

Give the endurance team a call and ask if you can use the entrance fee for 2011. I know you can do that at Disneyland if you can not run for some reason.

They will not give a refund, hopefully you use this years entry for 2011.

Actually at BOTH WDW and DL, the policy is to guarantee entrance into the next year's race if withdrawn before a date that has already past (sometime in November). The guarantee is for the entry only, you still must pay the fee.

From the website:

TRANSFER POLICY
Registration fees are non-refundable and non-transferable. No exceptions will be made.

CANCELLATION POLICY

If your registration for the 2010 event is confirmed and you are unable to participate, you will receive guaranteed entry into the 2011 race if you notify us in writing postmarked by November 13, 2009. Please note: You are still required to register for the 2011 race and your entry fee for the 2010 race WILL NOT transfer to the 2011 race.

Nor will they mail your race shirt or package to you. They used to do that for folks who could not make the race but have discontinued this over the last 5 years.

 

[luvsTink]

You said that he walked home after the injury....can he still walk/run, but at a slower pace? For me, finishing slow is better than no finish...

Anne

 

[Xiard]

I'd just like to weigh in on this briefly. I can't help but find this policy completely reprehensible. This is NOT a cheap race. I paid over $300 to participate in the Goofy Challenge, and then last week got in a motorcycle accident. They now get to keep my $300 for doing...absolutely nothing!! Yay!

I understand that it's difficult to respond to all requests for deferrals. But there are unavoidable circumstances that make it impossible for people to race. With a doctor's note of some sort, it should be more than reasonable for them to make it possible to at the very least defer your fees until the next year's race. They certainly charge enough; spending a bit of that money (or raising rates slightly if necessary) to put the structure in place to allow injury-based deferrals would not seem unreasonable.

It was already a stretch for me to spend so much money for a novelty race...and now I have to pay it twice? Three times if I get into another accident next year? Oh, thanks a pantsload, Disney.

Emphasizing that they warn you up front that the fees are non-refundable is not an acceptable answer, in my opinion. The simple fact is that if you object to no-refund policies, you won't be able to race anywhere...ever. So OF COURSE you're going to play the odds and hope you won't get injured. You have no choice. And 99 times out of 100 you'll be fine, and you won't need a refund.

It just makes me sick to my stomach, and leaves a bad taste in my mouth regarding Disney. Of course, I'm aware that I would get that bad taste regarding any event that I had to miss because of an injury and was unable to get a refund for...but in this case it's Disney. So, sorry Disney...but you get my hate and disgust for this. It's not right. Enjoy my money, mouse.

David

 

[cewait]

David

First, I am sorry that you injured yourself and will not be running next week. However, this is a policy that MOST marathons and large races adhere to, it’s not just Disney. It is clearly stated as you entered the race that there are no refunds or transfers allowed. I know you do not want to read this but it is a fact. You do not have to enter a race that follows this policy.

BTW, Disney is not the most expensive race out there. Try entering an Ironman and come up lame late in training. You’re out $550 and it is not an easy cost to swallow.

You are correct in alluding that this is not fair to those who must drop out and, especially for the Goofy racers, those who must enter 8 months or more in advance to get a spot. I personally would hate to see fees increase to supplement runners who must cancel for whatever reason is; medical, job emergency or failure to train. The entry fees are high enough as is. Sorry. Maybe an insurance company could step up and sell race “participants insurance” for those who may not be able to make a race instead of raising already high entry fees. Of course this would be an optional fee that many would not purchase, and then we are back to not being fair.

Finally, maybe you should approach the race director or Disney with your issue and anger. It makes little since to join a forum for Disney lovers then immediately blast away with both barrels. We cannot do anything to correct your situation even if we wanted to. What you do not see is that the RD and Disney have incurred most of the expenses already for this race so a percentage of your entry fee has already secured road permits, security, facility rental, supplies, insurance, etc.

Again, sorry you are injured and I am glad you were able to get this off your chest. I hope that you do change your mind and decide to come back and run in 2011.

 

[Sarah_Rose]

It is unfortunate whenever you are unable to participate in a race that you have registered and paid for. However, having been on the organizational end of a few large races, I can definitely say that it is just not economically feasible to offer refunds or deferrals, in most cases. In addition to the extra staff power it would take to process deferrals (especially in a huge race like at Disney), quite simply, your money has been spent. The food has been ordered, the staff has been scheduled, the bibs have been printed, and your medal and shirt are waiting for you.

Think of it as a wedding; if you call the day before the wedding to say that you can no longer make it, the bride and groom will still be paying for your seat in the hall, all of your food, your favor, and your slice of cake. This close to an event, there is simply no way to get back money that has already been spent. It would be nice if Disney would still mail your shirt and things to you if you can't participate, but I can see why that is more effort than it's worth. The charity I work with allows non-participants to come pick up their shirt from their office after the event, but will not give refunds if you can't participate. They just couldn't continue operating large races if they did. I know Disney is a big company that operates on a different scale, but the principles are the same.

 

[JoanneNC]

David

I am also sorry to hear about your injury and you are right in that it was circumstances out of your control BUT also out of Disney's control. The optimal solution for most races would be to allow LEGAL transfers to avoid disgruntle runners and assist in those runners that prefer to register last minute. I personally love that the Army 10 miler offers and even facilitates legal transfers

DH is active duty military and we roll the dice anytime we sign him up for a race and book airplane tickets, etc because a military deployment isn't optional for him when he is told he must go.

If you were in a motorcycle accident that was not your fault, possible seek damages from the guilty party for the expenses you are out.

 

[Xiard]

cewait:

Thank you for your response.

I actually don't mind reading that the race clearly didn't allow refunds or transfers, and I am actually perfectly aware that it's a fact. I object to the policy, not to facing reality.

As I said in my post, I'm also aware that this is a policy shared by pretty much all major races (I am an Ironman finisher as well). My statement was not that Disney is uniquely bad, but that it is a bad and unfair policy wherever it occurs, and that it is unreasonable for racers to be forced to live with that policy if they want to race at all. My option is not to only run the races that allow refunds in the event of an accident, because there aren't any. My options are to either accept an unreasonable policy or simply not to race. I don't like that.

I think it would be a great idea to have an insurance policy like you described. I would certainly do that for an expensive race that I have to register for so far in advance (Ironman definitely qualifies). Unfortunately that option isn't out there. And if it were, at least if I didn't do it it would have been my choice not to accept that insurance. Without it being offered, I'm back to having no options.

And I'm sorry, but I think your final point about this not being an appropriate forum is a little off the mark. I have, of course, already informed the race organizers how dissatisfied I am with this. And as far as telling Disney...that's what I'm doing. I'm participating in a public forum that has a pretty good chance of at least being seen by someone at Disney. If you search for "disney marathon refunds" on Google, this thread is the 3rd link.

I have nothing against the participants in this forum, and nothing against Disney in general. I'm an annual pass holder, and was really looking forward to getting my three medals. But I want to make my voice heard and I want to do it where Disney can see it...and #3 on the Google results list seems like a pretty good place to do it.

Sarah_Rose:

I understand what you're saying about the money being spent. But what it comes down to is that it is simply not ethical to take a large amount of someone's money and give them absolutely nothing for it, even if you say up front that that's what you're going to do in some unlikely circumstances. It's not right. I paid a LOT of money for nothing. That's just not right.

Also, keep in mind that these races are not run by non-profits. There is profit being made, or they wouldn't be put on. I don't know how much profit would have been made from my entry fee and my participation. $25? $50? $100? Regardless, every cent of my money did not go towards the t-shirt, medal, food, etc. So give me back the profit. Or if they can't give me back all the profit, how about splitting it with me 50/50? How about $5 for my annoyance? Simply saying "the money has already been spent" isn't a sufficient answer for me. They took my money, and providing absolutely nothing in return is unethical.

Joanne:

Yes, I totally agree. If I could simply tell them "hey, change my name in the database to John Doe. I sold my numbers to him and he's going to pick them up", I would be satisfied.

Would that REALLY be such an expensive proposition, Sarah_Rose? I spent 5 minutes arguing with the guy at the race organizers trying to convince him to give me SOME sort of satisfaction. Can you really convince me that there's no way to swap out a name in the database in that 5-minute period? How about if there were a $25 charge for transferral?

How about ANY attempt to have me (and others) not send $300 down the drain?

Thanks for listening. And again, I'd like to emphasize that my point is not to "fire with both barrels" at any of you, or to pile on Disney in general. My objective is to make a statement about the unfairness of the policy in races like these.

Thank you,

David

 

[cewait]

cewait:

Thank you for your response.

...

I think it would be a great idea to have an insurance policy like you described. I would certainly do that for an expensive race that I have to register for so far in advance (Ironman definitely qualifies). Unfortunately that option isn't out there. And if it were, at least if I didn't do it it would have been my choice not to accept that insurance. Without it being offered, I'm back to having no options.

And I'm sorry, but I think your final point about this not being an appropriate forum is a little off the mark. I have, of course, already informed the race organizers how dissatisfied I am with this. And as far as telling Disney...that's what I'm doing. I'm participating in a public forum that has a pretty good chance of at least being seen by someone at Disney. If you search for "disney marathon refunds" on Google, this thread is the 3rd link.

.....

... I spent 5 minutes arguing with the guy at the race organizers trying to convince him to give me SOME sort of satisfaction. Can you really convince me that there's no way to swap out a name in the database in that 5-minute period? How about if there were a $25 charge for transferral?

.....

Thanks for listening. And again, I'd like to emphasize that my point is not to "fire with both barrels" at any of you, or to pile on Disney in general. My objective is to make a statement about the unfairness of the policy in races like these.

Thank you,

David

David,

Seems like there is a mission here. With most everything else Disney insurance is available. A couple years age my wife had a disc issue and we recieved a refund for a missed cruise. Took a doctor's time to compelte a form but it was fast and we were 95% satisfied with the process. I couldn't get a Continental refund but then I did not purchase their insurance. Disney may be the race that would have the stroke to create such a policy. They definitely have the contections to create such a policy and would profit from the commissions from unused policies.



I also agree that a better cancelation/transfer policy would work for all and could profit the mouse. Races have created these policies based on the days of manully entering applications - back then it was an administrative nightmare. Today, it costs nothing to maintain a waiting list and Disney could profit from a $30-50 transfer fee to the next person in line. If after the date bibs are ordered the substitued runner would not have a 'personailzed' bib, but I would not think that would matter. I know there are several folks who are trained well enough to take on Goofy and would love to have a waiting list out there.

Though as a coach/trainer I am not sure I would want one of my runners to jump into a Goofy situation with out a little more forward thought.

Anyway, heal up and I really do hope to see you there next year.

 

[FireDancer]

David,

I do agree with the principle of what you are saying. I understand the reason for it on the organizers part but that doesn't mean I like it.

I think the insurance policy would be a great idea for marathons (and halves) as well as triathlons. I'm sure there is a market for it and where there is a market there is usually someone ready to fill it.

I think there should be a mechanism for selling or giving away a race entry. I work with data all day long and the technical aspect of changing the name and information on a bib is trivial. It is a simple database update that can be done with the most basic of computer knowledge. I could see the organizers forcing the registrants to use them to do the transfer instead of just letting the entries be sold on eBay. They could charge a small change fee to offset any time or effort it takes. I could also see them basing the fee on whether or not the race is sold out. They might be losing an additional entry if the race is not sold out but for a sold out race it really doesn't matter. If there are already 20,000 people running a race that has a 20,000 person cap it doesn't matter which 20,000 are running. If only 15,000 entries are sold then yes, you selling me your bib is keeping me from being 1,501 but that is why they can scale the fee.

Keep in mind that the marathon is still relatively new to many of the people who are doing them. We aren't too far from the days that races were small and not really for the slower runners or walkers. As the races become more mainstream they will be altered to accommodate that target audience. More and more people will have the same concerns you do and as often happens in the free market something will be figured out.

 

[solotraveler]

It is unfortunate whenever you are unable to participate in a race that you have registered and paid for. However, having been on the organizational end of a few large races, I can definitely say that it is just not economically feasible to offer refunds or deferrals, in most cases. In addition to the extra staff power it would take to process deferrals (especially in a huge race like at Disney), quite simply, your money has been spent. The food has been ordered, the staff has been scheduled, the bibs have been printed, and your medal and shirt are waiting for you.

Think of it as a wedding; if you call the day before the wedding to say that you can no longer make it, the bride and groom will still be paying for your seat in the hall, all of your food, your favor, and your slice of cake. This close to an event, there is simply no way to get back money that has already been spent. It would be nice if Disney would still mail your shirt and things to you if you can't participate, but I can see why that is more effort than it's worth. The charity I work with allows non-participants to come pick up their shirt from their office after the event, but will not give refunds if you can't participate. They just couldn't continue operating large races if they did. I know Disney is a big company that operates on a different scale, but the principles are the same.

Bingo! Think of the thousands upon thousands of deferrals and refunds in a race of this size! I think Disney does a great thing by allow deferral of the entry (though not the money) until mid-November. Several years ago, I came down with mono just before marathon weekend. Was I upset? Sure. Did I get all up in arms and rant and rave about a refund policy (on a forum I have never been at before for the sole purpose of telling as many people as possible how ticked off I was)? HECK NO!!! You know the policy when you sign up, you agree to it and they aren't hiding anything. Stuff happens. It's called life.

David,


I think there should be a mechanism for selling or giving away a race entry. I work with data all day long and the technical aspect of changing the name and information on a bib is trivial. It is a simple database update that can be done with the most basic of computer knowledge. I could see the organizers forcing the registrants to use them to do the transfer instead of just letting the entries be sold on eBay. They could charge a small change fee to offset any time or effort it takes. I could also see them basing the fee on whether or not the race is sold out. They might be losing an additional entry if the race is not sold out but for a sold out race it really doesn't matter. If there are already 20,000 people running a race that has a 20,000 person cap it doesn't matter which 20,000 are running. If only 15,000 entries are sold then yes, you selling me your bib is keeping me from being 1,501 but that is why they can scale the fee.

I actually really disagree. The only thing this would accomplish is the creation of a huge black market for race entries. There is no was Disney or any other race organizer could control the exchange of funds for a "transfer" between two parties. It's tough as it is to get in to some races, imagine if there was a profit motive to get those entries.....

 

[cewait]

:
I actually really disagree. The only thing this would accomplish is the creation of a huge black market for race entries. There is no was Disney or any other race organizer could control the exchange of funds for a "transfer" between two parties. It's tough as it is to get in to some races, imagine if there was a profit motive to get those entries.....

Agreed.... The RD should maintain control of the liscensing of the race participants. I would like to see a RD controlled waiting list added like I mentioned in my second post but allowing Craigslist and ebay to govern the market would be crazy. The RD's would be open for litigation from anyone who gets a scratch or worse during the event. I think what most folks don't realize is the the RD does pay for insurance on each and every one of us. WDWM used to force all particiapnts to join (througha day liscense) the USTAF in the early days to assure the coverage.

 

[FireDancer]

I actually really disagree. The only thing this would accomplish is the creation of a huge black market for race entries. There is no was Disney or any other race organizer could control the exchange of funds for a "transfer" between two parties. It's tough as it is to get in to some races, imagine if there was a profit motive to get those entries.....

That black market already exists and allowing an official alternative won't increase it, it will decrease it. Since only the event organizers have access to the database of entries they could easily control the official exchange of registrations. If someone wants to buy or sell a registration they are going to do it one way or another. If the only way to do it is to do it on the down low that is how it will be done. If there is an official way then at least some of the people who are going to do it anyway will do it the sanctioned way.

The same argument was made about digital music. That selling it will only make people pirate more but that turned out not to be the case. If the only way to get digital music is to pirate it than 100% of digital music will be pirated. If there is a legitimate way to get it like through Amazon or iTunes some people will still pirate but many more will purchase the music through a legitimate channel.

If I were registered for a race and got injured I would sell my registration one way or another. I would not eat it. If there was a sanctioned way to do it I would choose that. If there wasn't I would still sell it, but on my own. I'm sure I am not the only one who would do this. It is my registration and I don't care what the race director says about it, I'm not eating a registration if I can resell it just like I wouldn't eat tickets to a game or concert I couldn't attend, I would resell them regardless of the rules the venue attempted to impose on me.

 

[FireDancer]

But right now it is eBay and Craigslist that control the market because there is no alternative. Old media makes the same argument about not selling music, books, movies, or newspapers online. They also don't look at the fact that with no legitimate alternative the only option is to do it on the black market.

Once I buy a registration it is mine, it no longer belongs to the RD regardless of what they say. When I buy a car it no longer belongs to the car company, it is mine. When I buy a book it no longer belongs to the publisher, it is mine. I can resell either of them.

I look at anything I buy the exact same, it is mine to do with what I want (provided no law is being broken). I disregard licensing "rules".

 

[Xiard]

I'd also like to mention that by requiring you to show up in person they have effectively made it impossible for me to sell my registration. I live in Atlanta. At the very least it would require 14 hours of driving to make it to Orlando and back. That would completely negate any benefit I would get from selling my registration, unless I managed to sell it for a ludicrously large amount of money.

Consequently, I really am left with no option but to eat it, which really does suck.

D.