Independent Condominium Association?

[movie77]

But what's the purpose of the board? Is the board supposed to pass along their own opinions? If so, why are their opinions more important than anyone else's? Or do they supposed to collect the opinions of the members-at-large and pass those along to Disney? If so, why do we need a board in the middle; I can just pass my opinions directly?

I have no idea how many DVC members there are. Say there are 100,000 and 30,000 join such a group that would be a sizable respsentation. If member thought x was an issue and there was a vote on and say 87% agreed with the issue it seems that would have a lot more sway than me or you stopping by the front desk or writting a letter.

 

[tjkraz]

I agree this would be beneficial again if done right. Somethings I just don't get about DVC. I've read many threads about various resorts complains of limited or no close counter service. Isn't cs a revenue generator for Disney. Why wouldn't they put one in Kidani? Makes zero sense. there is no way at those prices its a loss leader.

Not to get too far off topic but I suspect that's a defensible decision.

Table service dining is likely more profitable than counter service. So by providing TS only they have the opportunity to upsell to guests desperate for a meal. Or DVC memberrs can buy groceries at Disney's inflated prices and prepare a meal in their room. And resort which don't have a full-blown CS restaurant still have grab-and-go items like sandwiches and salads. So Disney is able to meet the needs of those guests without dedicating space for food prep & sales plus all of the other overhead (supplies, salaries, utilities, etc.)

And then you've got the dozens of CS locations already scattered around property. Want a CS meal near the BoardWalk? Walk over to Beaches and Cream or any location at Epcot or DHS. Want a CS meal at Kidani? Hop over to Jambo and dine at The Mara or just plan to be in one of theme parks at meal time.

Just because guests would use a new CS location doesn't say much about the volume of new business it would generate.

I think this is a pretty good example of why DVC doesn't solicit opinions from members often. Just because members think something is a good idea doesn't mean it's in line with Disney's own goals. And they aren't going to justify every decision to members.

 

[Dean]

My guess is such a group would need to do a good job in voicing issuing and affecting a positive change or people would no longer support it. sounds like an interesting idea to me. A couple items come immediately to mind for me including the level of bed the disney provides vs the cost. It is well below travel standards of say a Marriott or Hilton.

Ineresting that Marriott had the worst beds in the industry until just a few years ago with those 4 inch foam things.

I agree this would be beneficial again if done right. Somethings I just don't get about DVC. I've read many threads about various resorts complains of limited or no close counter service. Isn't cs a revenue generator for Disney. Why wouldn't they put one in Kidani? Makes zero sense. there is no way at those prices its a loss leader.

While I agree it would be beneficial for members, I doubt it would be for Disney. Actually I'm surprised they didn't go for a CS option instead of a TS much like at the value resorts. Or possibly a dual purpose option with a small TS option sharing a kitchen with a CS location. Hopefully Sanaa will draw from the Lodge as well given it's hopefully in between the level of the two at the lodge. I prefer more casual places but despise buffet's so I now I'd use it if I were staying at Jambo house but not sure how many will otherwise. I wonder if they'll do a Character Breakfast there and whether it'll be on the DDP.

 

[DisneyWalker44]

I have no idea how many DVC members there are. Say there are 100,000 and 30,000 join such a group that would be a sizable respsentation. If member thought x was an issue and there was a vote on and say 87% agreed with the issue it seems that would have a lot more sway than me or you stopping by the front desk or witting a letter.

How about if 26,100 stopped by the front desk, sent a letter or emailed Member Satisfaction?

 

[DisneyWalker44]

Table service dining is likely more profitable than counter service.

I actually suspect Disney doesn't make a profit on CS. Seems weird they can't make money selling hamburgers for $9... maybe it has something to do with labor shortages... but if you look at Disney's actions, they CS is clearly a business they have no interest in.

The MK has a desperate need for more CS - lines are often out the door even on days of mid-level attendance. Yet Disney keeps two CS shuttered in all but the busiest seasons. Why? And why is Disney building these horrid CS-sundry combo establishments? The only think I can think of is that CS isn't profitable for Disney. There is a ton demand - so much so that it wouldn't take away from TS. Yet Disney doesn't act to meet the demand.

Trivia - when's the last time Disney built a stand-alone CS restaurant at WDW?

 

[Chuck S]

Trivia - when's the last time Disney built a stand-alone CS restaurant at WDW?

I would suspect just a couple of years, though not a new location, they extensively expanded and remodeled the CS location at the Poly, removing some existing upscale shops to do so. So surely there is profit, if there is sufficient demand.

However, I can't ever see Disney building a deluxe class resort, as the DVCs are marketed, without a TS location. That didn't even fly at SSR, one was added, even with the large selectin of TS restaurant at nearby DtD.

The MK has a desperate need for more CS - lines are often out the door even on days of mid-level attendance. Yet Disney keeps two CS shuttered in all but the busiest seasons. Why? And why is Disney building these horrid CS-sundry combo establishments? The only think I can think of is that CS isn't profitable for Disney. There is a ton demand - so much so that it wouldn't take away from TS. Yet Disney doesn't act to meet the demand.

While there is no denying that the MK CS locations can get very busy, there are also many that are under-utitlized. It really depends upon what they serve. I never saw a line at the noodle station on the rare occasions I saw it open. I've also never seen a line at the Pirate & the Parrot. Now it may be because these locations are open so infrequently that people would rather stick with their favorites, but I've also been to Columbia Harbor House when there has been no line, and only about half the registers operating. I've even seen very short lines at Casey's and Pinocchio's but I've also seen them packed...demand just doesn't seem to be consistent, except at Cosmic Rays and the burger place (sorry, can't remember the name, only ate there once) in Frontierland.

It may be that CS locations at resorts also have varying demand. I know the snack bar at the Contemporary (now the Waves location) was often not very busy at all. I think overall demand for both CS and TS havs increased with the introduction of the Dining Plans. Whether it remains so, if they increase the DDP prices or gut the plans, remains to be seen.

 

[Tara]

QUOTE=DisneyWalker44;31525774]

Trivia - when's the last time Disney built a stand-alone CS restaurant at WDW?[/QUOTE]

If by stand-alone you mean not at a resort, then I would guess it was 1998 when Animal Kingdom opened. There have been changes since then, but to my recollection they've been re-themes/re-names of existing CS locations.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I guess this is where the "camel is a horse put together by a committee thing comes from?

Somehow this has turned into a thread about counter service? And ya'll don't understand why the committees and associations you've been a part of don't work??? (JOKE!!!)

 

[crisi]

I guess this is where the "camel is a horse put together by a committee thing comes from?

Somehow this has turned into a thread about counter service? And ya'll don't understand why the committees and associations you've been a part of don't work??? (JOKE!!!)

But this is exactly the sort of conversations that an association would have to have - and understand - in working with Disney. A food court at the Boardwalk (Atlantic Dance seems underutilized to me - or take out ESPN, I don't like it), sounds like a wonderful idea....but if I don't understand the economic implications of that decision, how can I make a successful case for it - or understand why Disney may not think it an attractive improvement. ESPN probably makes Disney money hand over fist whether I like the place or not. And Atlantic Dance may be used as a convention location. If the margins for counter service are indeed low, this may not be the best use for those space for Disney. An association has to have a win-win attitude.

And, of course, being an association, the minute I say something like "get rid of ESPN" - there will be howls from other association members for whom ESPN is a regular tradition.

(I pick on ESPN because a few years ago there was a rumor that ESPN would move to DTD, and we'd get a food court in that space for BW/Y&BC - its a hike for Y&BC, but no more of a hike than getting to the CBR food court for people on the ends of the lake.)

 

[Dean]

I guess this is where the "camel is a horse put together by a committee thing comes from?

Somehow this has turned into a thread about counter service? And ya'll don't understand why the committees and associations you've been a part of don't work??? (JOKE!!!)

Even for a group of 30 similar physicians it's hard to get any consensus on most matters. While I'm sure some will see this as a reason not to have some type of smaller group input, I see it as quite the opposite. Such a group would/should take all those petty complaints and suggestions and pare them down to the more important and/or more requested items. That's one reason we do almost all work in our group in smaller committees then bring it back to the group for a vote where applicable.

 

[Tara]

Not to get too far off topic but I suspect that's a defensible decision.

Table service dining is likely more profitable than counter service. So by providing TS only they have the opportunity to upsell to guests desperate for a meal. Or DVC memberrs can buy groceries at Disney's inflated prices and prepare a meal in their room. And resort which don't have a full-blown CS restaurant still have grab-and-go items like sandwiches and salads. So Disney is able to meet the needs of those guests without dedicating space for food prep & sales plus all of the other overhead (supplies, salaries, utilities, etc.)

And then you've got the dozens of CS locations already scattered around property. Want a CS meal near the BoardWalk? Walk over to Beaches and Cream or any location at Epcot or DHS. Want a CS meal at Kidani? Hop over to Jambo and dine at The Mara or just plan to be in one of theme parks at meal time.

Just because guests would use a new CS location doesn't say much about the volume of new business it would generate.

I think this is a pretty good example of why DVC doesn't solicit opinions from members often. Just because members think something is a good idea doesn't mean it's in line with Disney's own goals. And they aren't going to justify every decision to members.

I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I responded to the recent poll posted about choice between TS and CS that Disney seems to have no real desire to provide plentiful CS for deluxe-level guests. Just as you said, it's a good way to continue to upsell guests. It doesn't strike me as a capricious or ill-informed decision, but one that is intentionally made to drive profits.

 

[movie77]

Even for a group of 30 similar physicians it's hard to get any consensus on most matters. While I'm sure some will see this as a reason not to have some type of smaller group input, I see it as quite the opposite. Such a group would/should take all those petty complaints and suggestions and pare them down to the more important and/or more requested items. That's one reason we do almost all work in our group in smaller committees then bring it back to the group for a vote where applicable.

I agree. It would be great to understand the reasons behind various things, but again if 90% of members thought in general improved cs was important to address there should be some means to express that collectively rather than individually. It could probably be done via the web for the most part.

 

[movie77]

Ineresting that Marriott had the worst beds in the industry until just a few years ago with those 4 inch foam things.

They put in those new beds a couple years ago chain wide and they're great. One of my benchmarks for a nice resort is the bed should be better than the one I have at home and not vice versa. Disney properties while very nice fall well short in this area. At the cost for purchase and annual fees that doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Dean]

They put in those new beds a couple years ago chain wide and they're great. One of my benchmarks for a nice resort is the bed should be better than the one I have at home and not vice versa. Disney properties while very nice fall well short in this area. At the cost for purchase and annual fees that doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe 5 or 6 years ago and I agree, they are great. Rival Westin even in lower level resorts/hotel. I'm sure they were competing with Westin but why doesn't matter, that they did is the important thing to me. Marriott tends to run a more formal plan for their timeshares than does DVC. They generally run a 5 year soft refurbishment and 10 year hard refurbishment schedule. Industry wide you normally see anywhere from the 5/10 schedule that Marriott runs to a 7/14 for mid to lower level resorts. Then for major projects they'll adjust to market conditions. For example you'll see some resorts squeezing in major rennovations into just one cycles because they are getting a lower price on bids and materials than anticipated, worth it for many even with the lower maint fees collected.

They other thing I really like about Marriott is they make decisions ahead and share with those onsite for materials, colors, pictures, etc. Then they often do a test room a year or so out to see if things are actually going to work and hold up as anticipated. Imagine Welcome home Wed but instead of cheesy sales pitches from sales staff you get managers, heads of departments, fabric boards and straight talk about issues and problems.

 

[CarolA]

IMHO this boards does NOT fully represent the DVC community but a vocal subsection. Since about 90% of the time I disagree with the view on here I think that allowing a subgroup a "vote" would be a bad idea!


I think the risk would be that just like your HOA it's the 'busybodies' who start stirring things up and then the rest of us either have to start fighting back or get steamrolled. (i.e., the debate over booking categories at SSR. The "vocal" group wants Disney to believe they represnent ALL of us since those of us who are happy with the current system see NO need to complain!)

 

[CMOORE185]

This idea has been running around in my head for a few months now. Every once in a while, it resurfaces based on things being said in a praticular thread or during a particular discussion point. Such a resurface occurred this morning whilst posting in another thread so I decided to just throw it out there just to see if anybody agrees.

Would you and your family be interested in group representation to Disney that was seperate from the DVD-sponsored condominium association?

I am not talking about something half-hearted but rather something professionally run and organized that would have a stated purpose and mission and would represent you independent of Disney influenced input.

This sort of association would, of course, be completely voluntary yet would likely have to have a certain percentage of association members in its ranks in order to have viability in the eyes of Disney.

Since the assosication would have an administrative office and administrative overhead, it would likely have nominal annual fees or dues associated with membership.

Please allow me to stress that this association's mission is to represent the membership to Disney as a united group. It would not be used to try to bully Disney and would not be used for such purposes but would rather be a positive voice representing the collective outside the influence of DVD.

I believe that a private forum/board such as this could be used as a methodology for collecting membership concerns and requests, at least initially. Some sort of meetings, likely regional, would be essential as well.

Let's discuss. I'd be interested in your feelings regarding this.

I think the poll results have answered this thread. No support for a Independent Condiminum Association.

 

[tjkraz]

...if 90% of members thought in general improved cs was important to address there should be some means to express that collectively rather than individually. It could probably be done via the web for the most part.

All that does is put Disney in the position of tactfully saying "we don't really care what you 90% think because WE don't want to add a counter service location." That's the main reason Disney won't bother to ask most questions in the first place.

 

[movie77]

All that does is put Disney in the position of tactfully saying "we don't really care what you 90% think because WE don't want to add a counter service location." That's the main reason Disney won't bother to ask most questions in the first place.

I don't know about that. Most businesses that tell 90% of their clients they don't care don't do well in the long term. One issue is I don't think we don't know what 90% of us care about. I was actually surprised after joining DVC there wasn't a group like this already. As an example I actually received a nice call from member services after I sent an e-mail in complaining about the lack of cs at Kidani. I was told they had received many comments already and they were considering it. We'll see what happens, but I guess I'm a little shocked why that wasn't clear from the start with just common sense. If there was some group that could poll its members and bring concerns to dvc management ahead of time it would seem to make sense to me. I would like to know either way myself. If the group polled and found 93% would like to see CS at the new fill in the blank resort and DVC said hey you 93% can pound sand then people could make an informed decision on how things are run. If only 10% were in favor then if you were you would know you were in the minority in that opinion.

 

[DisneyWalker44]

I was actually surprised after joining DVC there wasn't a group like this already.

There *is* a group like this. It's called the Disney Vacation Club Management Corporation. We pay them to run the resorts for us.

If 90% (or 9% or .9%) of us think we need better CS, there already is a mechanism to express that. There is an entire member satisfaction team. There's an email address. There are people who call, talk to members and pass that information along to senior management.

If the group polled and found 93% would like to see CS at the new fill in the blank resort and DVC said hey you 93% can pound sand then people could make an informed decision on how things are run.

I'm sure if they ran a poll, at least 93% of us would like fee ponies (or free annual passes for those that can't keep a pony at home). That doesn't mean DVC is evil if they don't give them to us, does it?

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I think the poll results have answered this thread. No support for a Independent Condiminum Association.

I think the poll has proven that the members here represent a fraction of the membership of DVC of which many of us know and think we know 10x more than the average member. Unfortunately, I have to way to poll the membership at-large of which the results, I am convinced, would be different.

I'm convinced that the general membership here has been brainwashed by other members here that "Disney knows best and that's what you bought into so be happy with whatever they sell/do."

Snake oil is still snake oil. Some of us can still look at the bottle and see it for what it is.

You brought it back up.