Independent Condominium Association?

[WilsonFlyer]

This is the kind of thing I go to WDW to get away from! If someone is so unhappy with the DVC that they want to take it over, then they should sell their membership. I don't want to micro manage my Happy Place.

With all due respect, you really missed the point all-together.

What you describe is nothing even resembling what I proposed.

I've obviously already lost you but I just want to make sure that others that read this thread don't misinterpret our intentions.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

It would be to have direct exchange with the BOD. To be sure that issues were being heard at that level and to concentrate those issues. Now we really don't know what's heard and what's not and even how it's presented. They work in a vacuum. It'd also serve as somewhat of an accountability system. Better still would be to have members directly on the BOD. It's called representative government. It would not stop anyone from sending their concerns in the same way they do now.

It's obvious to me that you understand my real intentions here. I appreciate the help. Not to assume you're siding with anybody but it does appear you agree in general spirit.

 

[Tara]

It's obvious to me that you understand my real intentions here. I appreciate the help. Not to assume you're siding with anybody but it does appear you agree in general spirit.

Bob, I don't think anyone here is taking sides against each other (unless you are?) - many don't like or agree with the idea. It isn't personal, it isn't about you.

(Although I'd be willing to bet you turned some people off with your "I'm the only one who has a right to complain" comment - I found that offensive myself, but that isn't why I voted no - I voted before even reading your full response because I knew immediately what my answer was. Nothing you wrote about it changed my mind)

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Hi Tara. I never intended this to take on an air of taking sides but unfortunately, because of something I or someone else posted somewhere along the line, it appears to have become just that.

I didn't really mean Dean had chosen a side so much as in there being sides but in the fundamental sense of those for and against.

Contrary to apparent appearances, none of this is personal to me except the fact that I wish we were represented somehow regarding perks and benefits. I have no desire to have input to the kind of trees planted at OKW beside the sidewalks (though I guess some may and such an organization certainly could represent the same).

I'm really interested in the voice we should already have on the current association but don't seem to have.

Why don't VGC owners have an advantage booking window?

Why not some sort of discount on MYW tickets?

Why not have DVC relaxation areas at or near some of the kiosts in the parks (don't know where that one came from! LOL)?

Why not have special DVC FastPasses?

Again, I'm not so much interested in suggesting things that would cost DVC money as suggesting things Disney could do to indeed make DVC truly Disney's Best Kept Secret.

Contrary to the tone this thread seems to have taken, which may be my own fault, I doubt there'd actually be much disagreement within the ranks with the things I had intended this group to rally for. Maybe that's what I seem so confused about and why I don't understand why so many seem viamently opposed to this. All I Want to do is make things better at little, if any, cost to us as members. I think we could do this and I think it would be a good thing.

This thread seems to be taking a tone about a group that somehow wants to form a coo (sp?) and take over DVC. Jesus. I wouldn't DREAM of that. They can HAVE running it day-to-day. this is not about that at all. For that matter, my intention wasn't to be involved directly with the current association at all. As a matter of fact, my disassociation and forming a seperate organization was quite intentional for exactly those reasons.

If I made people mad with my statement about being the only one with a right to complain earlier, that wasn't my intention though I can see how it could come across that way if someone wanted to see it that way. My intended meaning was that this is not unlike those who complain about the govenrment and governing yet don't bother to vote. Right now, we don't have a vote IMHO. I do want to be able to complain when things aren't like I want them to be and I want to feel like I'm represented when I have something that I deem worthy of complaining about. right now, I/we don't have a vote, IMHO. I want to change that.

 

[DisneyWalker44]

It would be to have direct exchange with the BOD. To be sure that issues were being heard at that level and to concentrate those issues. Now we really don't know what's heard and what's not and even how it's presented. They work in a vacuum.

DVC has a member satisfaction team. They do tons of surveys and listen to anyone who comments or complains. If the BOD is so callus and so unconcerned about what the membership wants that they don't even bother to hear the data the Member Satisfaction collects, I don't see how having some guy in the room with them is going to help.

 

[Tara]

I'm really interested in the voice we should already have on the current association but don't seem to have.

Why don't VGC owners have an advantage booking window?
Why not some sort of discount on MYW tickets?
Why not have DVC relaxation areas at or near some of the kiosts in the parks (don't know where that one came from! LOL)?
Why not have special DVC FastPasses?

Again, I'm not so much interested in suggesting things that would cost DVC money as suggesting things Disney could do to indeed make DVC truly Disney's Best Kept Secret.

I guess the problem I have with this is that they already know people want discounts on things like non-AP passes. They've clearly made a decision about what they're willing to do and not do, hence the AP discount only. This doesn't strike me as random - it strikes me as a strategic decision. What exactly would an association do to get them to change this stance?

As for the relaxation areas you suggested - I understand that you are just brainstorming - but that idea would cost money because it would not only have to be built and maintained (even it's it's an open air gazebo sort of thing, not a building) and it would have to be staffed so that non-DVC members didn't use it. Those things would cost money - and that money would be our money.

When discussions of perks like special fast passes or dining plan discounts come up, I always ask, what incentive is there to offer them? We are a captive audience. Disney knows we are coming back. And if we don't come back, our paid-for points go unused (money in the bank) and they still have the opportunity to rent out our unused room (ca-ching). And if we are really upset and decide to sell, we either sign back our points to DVD at a fire sale price (they can sell again for much more), default on a loan (again, works to their advantage), or go out on the private market and pay the commission fees to bring a new, eager buyer to them - one they don't have to spend one marketing dime to reel in. We've already in effect voted with our wallets. I didn't buy DVC for the perks, I bought it hoping I'd save a little money on high-quality lodging over the course of my lifetime - and DVD makes it very clear in the contract that the perks of not an entitlement and can change at any time (and they have changed).

Contrary to the tone this thread seems to have taken, which may be my own fault, I doubt there'd actually be much disagreement within the ranks with the things I had intended this group to rally for. Maybe that's what I seem so confused about and why I don't understand why so many seem viamently opposed to this. All I Want to do is make things better at little, if any, cost to us as members. I think we could do this and I think it would be a good thing.

Just for the sake of discussion, let's talk about how you'd make things better at little, if any, cost.

This board represents only a small fraction of DVC members worldwide. How would you make contact with enough people assuming there's a minimum number of members you think would be effective in showing DVD/DVC that they should listen to this group and you'd have to contact some factor larger than that number to end up with enough people opting in? How many members do you think this organization would have to have in order for TPTB to trust that they represent the true majority. Would it need to be a true majority? For instance, I'd be VERY upset if a small association that didn't represent a true majority of members suggested something that would cost ME money in fees and that something was implemented as if the majority wanted it.

How would you convince people it was a good idea AND the body could actually be effective? You'd have to spend time and money marketing the idea in order to get people to join, i.e., part with their money. (It would take some money to run the elections, file paperwork, make contact with DVD/DVC, run mailings, etc.)

How would you run elections, seek nominees?

Who would pay for a representative to go to Board meetings?

If I made people mad with my statement about being the only one with a right to complain earlier, that wasn't my intention though I can see how it could come across that way if someone wanted to see it that way. My intended meaning was that this is not unlike those who complain about the govenrment and governing yet don't bother to vote. Right now, we don't have a vote IMHO. I do want to be able to complain when things aren't like I want them to be and I want to feel like I'm represented when I have something that I deem worthy of complaining about. right now, I/we don't have a vote, IMHO. I want to change that.

I understood what you meant. And my feeling is that we do have a vote - we all have equal power to use our individual voices. For many of us that seems to be all the vote we need.

 

[kdepot]

I understood what you meant. And my feeling is that we do have a vote - we all have equal power to use our individual voices. For many of us that seems to be all the vote we need.

As I stated before in my post "What does DVC need to get their attention? One voice, one letter or thousands of individual voices and letters filing in. "

Jam the phone lines or mailboxes and we will get noticed

 

[Chuck S]

In a way, the internet with its many DVC owners websites, including the DIS, is already fulfilling the role of an association. The various boards have released info about DVC changes that may show up on DVCMember.com. Then the peopl that read all the boards can make their personal feelings known to DVC Satisfaction. It seems to have worked just fine so far...remember mug-gate I'm sure DVC/Disney is already quite aware that some members would like a MYW ticket discount, and additional perks. Remember that DVC has to negotiate with Disney for such perks. While under one corporate umbrella, each division much show justification for perks. DVC may want perks, Disney may not see any financial benefits, so the discision is made to not offer it.

Take for instance MYW ticket discounts. What advantage is there to Disney? Such a discount isn't likely to substantially increase the number of days a person spends n the park...an 8 days ticket for $200 vs. and 8 days ticket for $150 is till 8 park admission days. With an AP discount, Disney stands to make a little money back. I know I have used the AP from time to time to book a discounted cash room at POP, where otherwise I may stay off-site. And an AP may increase the number of days spent spending $ inside the parks.

If a perk can't be justified on a possible financial benefit, unless it truly cost Disney nothing (like pool hopping), there is little reason for Disney to offer the perk.

 

[DisFlan]

No. Thank. You. I have the headaches of being president of our association here at home - by default. It was my turn. I wouldn't even want to think about an association with 300,000 members. Arrg.(!)

I'm more than happy to let DVC run things while we stay and play.

DisFlan

 

[stopher1]

No. Thank. You. I have the headaches of being president of our association here at home - by default. It was my turn. I wouldn't even want to think about an association with 300,000 members. Arrg.(!)

I'm more than happy to let DVC run things while we stay and play.

DisFlan

Same here. The 533 owners in my sub-division is more than enough for me, especially when only 10-15% reply to anything at all. I may not like everything that DVD & Disney do, but then again, no organization will make everyone happy all the time. There will always be someone disgruntled with this, that or some other decision....

 

[crisi]

Why not have special DVC FastPasses?

How about because it creates a class system? How would you feel if people staying at Deluxe resorts got special Fastpasses that you were not entitled to? If Disney did that, we'd all howl. Why should DVC members expect resort stayers to not howl? How about because it isn't fair?

And you want me to spend money to create an organization that might lobby for something that I find contrary to my values system.

This in a nutshell is why I think this is a horrible idea. I'll write my own letters to DVC if I feel the need to.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

How about because it creates a class system? How would you feel if people staying at Deluxe resorts got special Fastpasses that you were not entitled to? If Disney did that, we'd all howl. Why should DVC members expect resort stayers to not howl? How about because it isn't fair?

And you want me to spend money to create an organization that might lobby for something that I find contrary to my values system.

This in a nutshell is why I think this is a horrible idea. I'll write my own letters to DVC if I feel the need to.

We live in a class system, crisi.

 

[Dean]

DVC has a member satisfaction team. They do tons of surveys and listen to anyone who comments or complains. If the BOD is so callus and so unconcerned about what the membership wants that they don't even bother to hear the data the Member Satisfaction collects, I don't see how having some guy in the room with them is going to help.

We'll have to agree to disagree because I believe such a system could generate more accountability and better representation. Obviously the devil is in the details. I also don't believe that the member satisfaction team is as much a representation of the members as it is a damage control team though I'm sure there is a certain amount of information sharing though that group as well. Just the fact their company people and not members first, even if they are members also, alters their perspective dramatically. That being said, I think they spend a significant amount of time and effort in damage control where none is truly needed such as the change last year to booking 7 days at a time and the reallocation.

 

[manning]

Overheard after a HOA meeting..."Thank god this building was built by one contractor and not an association."

 

[crisi]

We live in a class system, crisi.

I sure don't need to lobby for its expansion. And I sure don't want anything to do with an organization that might.

One of the things I really like about Disney is that all guests (with money) are treated equally. If you can afford to pay for it, you can do it - Value guests are not restricted from going to V&As or booking Breathless. I can drop my kids off in the Neverland Club even if I'm not a Poly guest - as long as I pay. Once you are in the parks, everyone waits in the same lines and gets the same privileges (with exceptions for things like YoaMD or queuing areas for people with Disabilities). Staying in a suite at the Grand Floridian doesn't guarantee you a window table at California Grill for Wishes. The Magical Express buses that go to Pop are just as nice as the ones that drop off at the Y&BC.

I don't think DVC guests should get "special" treatment over other onsite guests, and I find the very idea offensive.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I sure don't need to lobby for its expansion. And I sure don't want anything to do with an organization that might.

One of the things I really like about Disney is that all guests (with money) are treated equally. If you can afford to pay for it, you can do it - Value guests are not restricted from going to V&As or booking Breathless. I can drop my kids off in the Neverland Club even if I'm not a Poly guest - as long as I pay. Once you are in the parks, everyone waits in the same lines and gets the same privileges (with exceptions for things like YoaMD or queuing areas for people with Disabilities). Staying in a suite at the Grand Floridian doesn't guarantee you a window table at California Grill for Wishes. The Magical Express buses that go to Pop are just as nice as the ones that drop off at the Y&BC.

I don't think DVC guests should get "special" treatment over other onsite guests, and I find the very idea offensive.

Right on!!! I couldn't agree more!

 

[DisDaydreamer]

I sure don't need to lobby for its expansion. And I sure don't want anything to do with an organization that might.

One of the things I really like about Disney is that all guests (with money) are treated equally. If you can afford to pay for it, you can do it - Value guests are not restricted from going to V&As or booking Breathless. I can drop my kids off in the Neverland Club even if I'm not a Poly guest - as long as I pay. Once you are in the parks, everyone waits in the same lines and gets the same privileges (with exceptions for things like YoaMD or queuing areas for people with Disabilities). Staying in a suite at the Grand Floridian doesn't guarantee you a window table at California Grill for Wishes. The Magical Express buses that go to Pop are just as nice as the ones that drop off at the Y&BC.

I don't think DVC guests should get "special" treatment over other onsite guests, and I find the very idea offensive.

You are always so eloquent, and just always so damn right...

 

[DisDaydreamer]

In a way, the internet with its many DVC owners websites, including the DIS, is already fulfilling the role of an association. The various boards have released info about DVC changes that may show up on DVCMember.com. Then the peopl that read all the boards can make their personal feelings known to DVC Satisfaction. It seems to have worked just fine so far...remember mug-gate I'm sure DVC/Disney is already quite aware that some members would like a MYW ticket discount, and additional perks. Remember that DVC has to negotiate with Disney for such perks. While under one corporate umbrella, each division much show justification for perks. DVC may want perks, Disney may not see any financial benefits, so the discision is made to not offer it.

Take for instance MYW ticket discounts. What advantage is there to Disney? Such a discount isn't likely to substantially increase the number of days a person spends n the park...an 8 days ticket for $200 vs. and 8 days ticket for $150 is till 8 park admission days. With an AP discount, Disney stands to make a little money back. I know I have used the AP from time to time to book a discounted cash room at POP, where otherwise I may stay off-site. And an AP may increase the number of days spent spending $ inside the parks.

If a perk can't be justified on a possible financial benefit, unless it truly cost Disney nothing (like pool hopping), there is little reason for Disney to offer the perk.

Well said... Right on the mark.

 

[movie77]

Absolutely not. There have been frankly some insane ideas floated around here over the years that have had a lot of popularity. I really don't need to pay dues into another organization so DVC members can lobby for things that would make my membership work a lot worse - or cost me a lot more in DVC dues because the members want to implement circuses.

My guess is such a group would need to do a good job in voicing issuing and affecting a positive change or people would no longer support it. sounds like an interesting idea to me. A couple items come immediately to mind for me including the level of bed the disney provides vs the cost. It is well below travel standards of say a Marriott or Hilton.

 

[movie77]

We'll have to agree to disagree because I believe such a system could generate more accountability and better representation. Obviously the devil is in the details. I also don't believe that the member satisfaction team is as much a representation of the members as it is a damage control team though I'm sure there is a certain amount of information sharing though that group as well. Just the fact their company people and not members first, even if they are members also, alters their perspective dramatically. That being said, I think they spend a significant amount of time and effort in damage control where none is truly needed such as the change last year to booking 7 days at a time and the reallocation.

I agree this would be beneficial again if done right. Somethings I just don't get about DVC. I've read many threads about various resorts complains of limited or no close counter service. Isn't cs a revenue generator for Disney. Why wouldn't they put one in Kidani? Makes zero sense. there is no way at those prices its a loss leader.