I'm apparently the bad guy (child vent ahead)

[nkereina]

Even if it were children with an "invisible" disability, I'd still blame the mother for bringing children with such a disability into a crowded subway that was going to cause both the children as well as the strangers around distress, especially strangers who have no idea that the children are disabled. So either way, it's still the mother's fault IMO.

That said, I would never say something to a stranger about their children unless it was directly impacting me in some way - like kicking my seat on a plane or stepping on my foot or bag. Something like that. While it may have been irritating to be around, I'd instead probably just count the minutes until my 25 minute ride was over. Or maybe even change cars to get away from it.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Even if it were children with an "invisible" disability, I'd still blame the mother for bringing children with such a disability into a crowded subway that was going to cause both the children as well as the strangers around them distress, especially strangers who have no idea that the children are disabled. So either way, it's still the mother's fault IMO.

That said, I would never say something to a stranger about their children unless it was significantly impacting me in some way - like kicking my seat on a plane or stepping on my foot or bag. Something like that. While it may have been irritating to be around, I'd instead probably just count the minutes until my 25 minute ride was over. Or maybe even change cars to get away from it.

But often you do not know how the child is going to react and sometimes you don't have a choice.

I agree with your second paragraph.

 

[nkereina]

But often you do not know how the child is going to react and sometimes you don't have a choice.

That's exactly my point - if you have a child with behavioral issues where you don't know how they'll react, I'd think bringing them into a crowded subway just exacerbates the situation for everyone involved. If I were out with two disabled children in my care alone, I'd be looking for the path of least resistance to get from point A to point B safely.

 

[wvjules]

Oh, and to the PP that asked the mother's response, she didn't say anything.

 

[Tasha228]

I love threads like these because they are so predictable on the direction they will go.

It's so easy to want to be PC and say, "Well, maybe the children had disabilities." But let us be real. There are a TON of kids that just behave badly and a ton of parents that just allow it.

My ds has ADHD. We don't allow that to be an excuse or a crutch for bad behavior. We took action and got him the help he needed to focus in school. In public, he knows acting up WILL mean consequences. He is generally well behaved but he's a kid and there are moments. And he is disciplined accordingly. He has never jumped on mattresses in a store because I would nip that in the bud pronto. Is his ADHD the same thing as having autistic children, etc? No, of course not. But parents still have a responsibility to know what their child can and can not deal with and to try to handle things accordingly. There are bad days, sure. BUT I'm personally not okay with raising my child to be able to get away with behaving like a little heathen because he has a disability. I am trying to raise him to be a wonderful and functioning adult with manners and morals, DESPITE any disabilities. JMO.

 

[Liberty Belle]

That's exactly my point - if you have a child with behavioral issues where you don't know how they'll react, I'd think bringing them into a crowded subway just exacerbates the situation for everyone involved. If I were out with two disabled children in my care alone, I'd be looking for the path of least resistance to get from point A to point B safely.

Oh, definitely I'd look for the path of least resistance if it was an option. What I meant was some kids with disabilities are perfectly fine the first time or two or three or four that you take them somewhere and then another factor (which may not even be evident) is thrown in and they respond behaviorally.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I love threads like these because they are so predictable on the direction they will go.

It's so easy to want to be PC and say, "Well, maybe the children had disabilities." But let us be real. There are a TON of kids that just behave badly and a ton of parents that just allow it.

My ds has ADHD. We don't allow that to be an excuse or a crutch for bad behavior. We took action and got him the help he needed to focus in school. In public, he knows acting up WILL mean consequences. He is generally well behaved but he's a kid and there are moments. And he is disciplined accordingly. He has never jumped on mattresses in a store because I would nip that in the bud pronto. Is his ADHD the same thing as having autistic children, etc? No, of course not. But parents still have a responsibility to know what their child can and can not deal with and to try to handle things accordingly. There are bad days, sure. BUT I'm personally not okay with raising my child to be able to get away with behaving like a little heathen because he has a disability. I am trying to raise him to be a wonderful and functioning adult with manners and morals, DESPITE any disabilities. JMO.

I haven't heard anyone saying differently.

 

[momz]

The OP mentioned the mother did not have "control" of her children.

The only thing you can "control" is your own reaction. You can influence others, which is what you tried to do by speaking to the mother, but you cannot "control" her. And likewise, the mother cannot "control" her child.

Also, a mother knows her child best, and often times, interacting during a tantrum will feed the behavior and make it take longer to resolve. Sometimes, it's best to ignore a tantrum. Let it run its course and then re-engage with the child when they are better.

It's unfortunate for all involved that this happened on the train. But, this family has just as much of a right to use this form of transportation as anybody else.

When you choose to go out in public, you risk having to witness bad behavior. It's not that big of a deal.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

And likewise, the mother cannot "control" her child.

I think that many here have been saying that a parent's responsibility is to at least TRY. Whether that is trying to "control" or to "influence" the behavior as you say, in public at least they should TRY. This mother apparently didn't.

 

[brockash]

I'm on the Metro this morning. It is standing room only because DC's metro service sucks these days. Anyway, there is this woman and 2 kids. The kids are insanely out of control. The one is ripping apart the newspaper and yelling. The other one is screaming and hollering and thrashing herself around in the seat where she was sitting (I felt bad for the guy in the same seat) and on the floor. It was a nightmare. So after the kid is yelling nonstop for 5 minutes, I asked the mom if she was going to do anything about it. (She has done NOTHING to gain control of the kids this entire time.) Someone actually piped up and said "It's not her fault." I was flabbergasted. Her kids were out of control and she did NOTHING. How is it not her fault? And someone else said they felt bad for her. If she were trying to get control and was unsuccessful then yes, I'd feel bad for her. But she did absolutely nothing about either of her out of control kids. It was a very long 25 minute ride!

I'm sure someone here is going to say that maybe there were invisible disabilities, but I honestly don't care. There is no excuse for their behavior and no excuse for the mother not doing anything.

Thanks. I feel better.

To me, it's just part of public transportation. I have nothing against, but you also go in knowing that not everyone has the same morals/considerations as you do. If you had been the man sitting next to them and the kid kept touching/knocking into you, then I could see saying something and then probably moving, but there's no way I'd say something like that just because I didn't like hearing the kid scream. I might have asked her if there was something I could do, but otherwise, I feel like it just goes with the territory.

 

[nkereina]

Oh, definitely I'd look for the path of least resistance if it was an option. What I meant was some kids with disabilities are perfectly fine the first time or two or three or four that you take them somewhere and then another factor (which may not even be evident) is thrown in and they respond behaviorally.

I hear you, and I agree. But in this case that the OP described, the mother had other options - like any other mode of transportation that wouldn't have put (potentially) disabled kids in a crowded subway car, which no one likes. Like you said - even if the kids did fine on the subway on Monday, it doesn't mean they will on Tuesday. Only speaking in terms of this scenario, with a crowded subway car.

 

[Wendy31]

The OP mentioned the mother did not have "control" of her children.

The only thing you can "control" is your own reaction. You can influence others, which is what you tried to do by speaking to the mother, but you cannot "control" her. And likewise, the mother cannot "control" her child.

Also, a mother knows her child best, and often times, interacting during a tantrum will feed the behavior and make it take longer to resolve. Sometimes, it's best to ignore a tantrum. Let it run its course and then re-engage with the child when they are better.

It's unfortunate for all involved that this happened on the train. But, this family has just as much of a right to use this form of transportation as anybody else.

When you choose to go out in public, you risk having to witness bad behavior. It's not that big of a deal.

Along those same lines, however, when one chooses to go out in public, he/she needs to act accordingly w/ a basic level of civility & decorum & in such a way that his/her behavior doesn't infringe upon others.

As parents, instructing & demonstrating to our children how to behave in public *is* our responsibility. And, sometimes, that means stopping (& not ignoring) incorrect behavior.

Temper tantrums will happen. And, sometimes, kids will pitch fits at very inconvenient times & in very inconvenient places. We've all been there. And I think everyone is a lot more understanding when it at least looks like the parent is attempting to calm the situation - instead of just continuing to to let a child rip up a newspaper & thrash about while sitting next to a stranger.

And, yes, there are hidden disabilities, &, whenever anything like this comes up, it's always the excuse. But I don't think a hidden disability is the reason for out of control behavior every single time.

I guess I'm just too self-conscious & worried about, not only what others are thinking about me, but also about being a disturbance to others. There's no way I'm going to just sit idly by while my kids are acting out of control.

 

[wilkeliza]

I hear you, and I agree. But in this case that the OP described, the mother had other options - like any other mode of transportation that wouldn't have put (potentially) disabled kids in a crowded subway car, which no one likes. Like you said - even if the kids did fine on the subway on Monday, it doesn't mean they will on Tuesday. Only speaking in terms of this scenario, with a crowded subway car.

How do you know the mom had other options? If they live on a transportation line maybe they don't have a car or the extra money to pay for a cab or something.

OP to me that is just apart of public transportation. In your follow up it sounds like the mom was doing some stuff just not what you deemed appropriate (taking the phone away and then the kid starts a tantrum again). What did you want her to physically restrain her child? Look I don't like kids that act out either but I've never thought it was my job to say anything to someone unless their kid is physically touching me. Now if you were the man sitting next to them and the kid started kicking you or hitting you then you can say something but just noise I put my headphones in and try to ignore it.

 

[Christine]

When you choose to go out in public, you risk having to witness bad behavior. It's not that big of a deal.

Being in my 50s, I know I'm "old" but there was a time when that statement was just not true--the bad behavior. It's pretty rampant now. I would bet money and easily win it that wherever I happen to go in public, be it Target, the grocery store, etc., I will see at least one episode of children not being supervised by the parents at all and misbehaving.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I'm 49 and haven't noticed any difference. I saw it in the 70s and see it now, but really I don't see it very often at all.

 

[nkereina]

How do you know the mom had other options? If they live on a transportation line maybe they don't have a car or the extra money to pay for a cab or something.

Bus, walk, Uber, taxi, friend, relative. Leave earlier or later in the day, as opposed to rush hour when the train is at it's most crowded. I'm just saying that if the kids were really disabled, the mother may have been more inclined to find another way. This could very easily just be a case of tantrum throwing kids and mom who just didn't care. Either way, I still wouldn't have said anything.

 

[wilkeliza]

Bus, walk, Uber, taxi, friend, relative. Leave earlier or later in the day, as opposed to rush hour when the train is at it's most crowded. I'm just saying that if the kids were really disabled, the mother may have been more inclined to find another way. This could very easily just be a case of tantrum throwing kids and mom who just didn't care. Either way, I still wouldn't have said anything.

Again the train is way cheaper than an uber or taxi. I imagine if it was a 25 minute train ride as the OP described walking isn't an option and perhaps they don't have a friend or relative who was available. I'm just trying to point out that there is a realty for a lot of people who use public transportation that they don't have another option. I'm also not sure how a bus is different than the train since I imagine the behavior could have been the same. I'm not trying to say the parent in question was in the right or that these children are actually disabled but there are many people who do not qualify for additional transportation and the bus/subway/train is all they can afford so unfortunately they do have to take their children who may have break downs onto public transportation to get to doctor's appointments, therapy, special schools etc. Telling a family going through that to find another option because you were just annoyed seems wrong to me.

 

[wvjules]

I take the metro on average 4 times per week. I know what some riders can be like. I have seen some a lot of bad behavior and have not said a word. Today, however, it was awful. I have never seen a child/ren behave like that in public EVER! It was that bad. It was rush hour on a crowded metro. I had no where to go.

wilkeliza, the mom wasn't doing anything though. The kid had the phone and couldn't unlock it, tantrum. The mom took the phone, tantrum. Neither of those are handling the situation. Nothing was done to alleviate the situation. I get that most say they wouldn't have said anything. Heck, if I was reading this I might say that I wouldn't' have said anything. But there is only so much a person can take. I reached my breaking point. I didn't yell. I didn't scream. I wasn't too rude (obviously I had a tone), but I was calm and rational. The behavior continued and I was never so grateful to get to work in my life. lol

 

[Liberty Belle]

I take the metro on average 4 times per week. I know what some riders can be like. I have seen some a lot of bad behavior and have not said a word. Today, however, it was awful. I have never seen a child/ren behave like that in public EVER! It was that bad. It was rush hour on a crowded metro. I had no where to go.

wilkeliza, the mom wasn't doing anything though. The kid had the phone and couldn't unlock it, tantrum. The mom took the phone, tantrum. Neither of those are handling the situation. Nothing was done to alleviate the situation. I get that most say they wouldn't have said anything. Heck, if I was reading this I might say that I wouldn't' have said anything. But there is only so much a person can take. I reached my breaking point. I didn't yell. I didn't scream. I wasn't too rude (obviously I had a tone), but I was calm and rational. The behavior continued and I was never so grateful to get to work in my life. lol

Since you were there and we weren't, what do you think the mom could have done that she wasn't doing? I mean, maybe to you whispering to/singing to/rubbing the child's back/trying to divert his attention/etc would count as doing nothing. From what I can tell by your posts, it doesn't sound like you'd think that, but I don't know you. You did say she took the phone away, so she did do that.

 

[wvjules]

If she whispered/sung/rubbed the child's back that would have been something. She did nothing. The only thing she did was take the phone away. I'm not sure how that is considered doing something. And keep in mind also, that she didn't stop the other kid from ripping the newspaper to shreds and yelling either. There was not one, but two out of control kids here and she didn't do anything to stop either one of them. The one ripping the paper to shreds was sitting on her lap. The other one, that prompted me to say something, was sitting across the aisle with a stranger, unless she was flopping in the aisle and on the floor and bouncing (figuratively) from her seat to her mom.

I think this is a case of you had to be there. I'm sure most wouldn't have said anything, but I did say something. I don't regret it. I'd do it again. lol