I think we need to add to our advice to new (especially resale) buyers/DVD

[Doctor P]

Several recent threads have made me realize that some additional advice needs to be given to new buyers into DVC (I think we are really talking about resale buyers for the most part). First, be sure you know what you are buying and get your questions answered up front--make sure that you see the member guidebook or at least have an understanding. Second, (and this is for DVD I think), DVD should make it a policy that they will not accept a resale that has been sold without at least a product understanding checklist of some type signed (they could even charge a small fee to cover this so that this is not being picked up by the membership as a whole). I am concerned for people who buy a resale and don't have a clear understanding of what they are buying. Am I crazy in this?

 

[spiceycat]

When I brought from Disney (had not done a resale) - Disney required a check list and yes you had to check off the things and make sure you understood before you signed - they still don't have this or do you want resalers to do it to - I would think it would be up to the resale agency. Which Disney can't control - you would have to go through Florida.

 

[Regina]

My first thought when reading this was "buyer beware."

I personally don't feel that it's Disney's responsibility to educate the purchaser in a resale transaction. While the checklist fee is a good idea, I think it would meet resistance as part of the reasoning behind many resales is the savings.

I'm also not comfortable with Disney being put in a position where they are held liable if the buyer feels that they were misled or uninformed.

 

[jctwizzer]

For us, just the Disney name was enough to make the deal a reality. And we have had no regrets. Then again, we're not ones to get caught up in all the legal lingo, technicalities, and small print.........some of those discussions on these boards indicate that others are a lot more anal retentive than we are. Maybe one of these days that will give us a problem, but we've made it six years without one!

 

[PamOKW]

I agree that it would be better for everyone if people knew what they were buying. I guess it isn't Disney's responsibility to inform people but it is their responsibility to be sure new members are following the guidelines. New purchasers should also be aware how banking and borrowing and the other intricacies work so they don't lose points.

I just can't grasp how people do purchase without reading the paperwork. I wouldn't purchase a house or a car or choose a university without looking it over carefully. How do you layout $12,000+ without reading the contract?

 

[ripleysmom]

You know I hate to bring up the dreaded 5 in a room thing again but the only place in any of the documents about occupancy limits are in the Product Understanding Checklist (I believe).

If Disney is the only one handing this out, then people buying a resale have not signed any contract about this stipulation and cannot be held then to the same agreement that people purchasing direct from Disney are.

I think Doctor P has a valid point.

 

[Regina]

The occupancy limits are stated on page 71 of the member handbook.

I still don't think that it's up to Disney to get involved in resales. That's what the resale company is getting a fee for. Having never seen what documentation is prepared in these types of transactions, it may be that the resale company should spell this out more clearly.

 

[PamOKW]

The Public Offering Statement lists the "Maximum Sleeping Occupancy" of the various units. I'm not sure whether or not this is provided to resale purchasers. This document also lays out just about every aspect of DVC including the changes that can be made to point allocation, Home Resort Priority, banking & borrowing. We haven't seen very many changes, but DVC does have the right to change things and owners should know that.

 

[drusba]

Seriously doubt Disney would try to impose any rules in the resale area but it is important that buyers understand the system and what they are buying. It would be helpful if the broker or seller provided the typical disclosure documents that Disney provides, or at least provide the guidebook, but that is unlikely to occur (unless the particular broker perceives it would give him some kind of sales advantage). If Disney actually tried to impose a requirement that a product understanding checklist was needed for any resale to be accepted, it could easily face a legal challenge (such as from brokers) for trying to impose conditions to the timeshare and the right of the owner to sell that are not spelled out (as required) in the disclosure documents that were given to the owner when he purchased from Disney. In other words, it is unlikely Disney could impose those conditions. To have brokers or sellers make further disclosures would likely require a change in timeshare laws which currently do not require many disclosures during a resale.

Note as to comment above about resale buyers not being bound to rules such as occupancy limits, that is incorrect--any buyer takes subject to all the same rules the seller had even if not disclosed by the seller during the resale; moreover, the occupancy limits are actually in the official disclosure documents that a new buyer from Disney gets and those are all on file with the State timeshare bureau and the resale buyer takes subject to those "public" documents that are on file with the state even if he never reads them.

 

[RobDoc]

Disney has the "checklist" document by the purchaser for the contract. Subsequent buyers are subject to the same agreements, just as a property owner is governed by any covenants already placed on the property. I don't think a new document needs to be signed by subsequent owners.

Resale owners get the benefit of all aspects of the contract (including membership in DVC, participation in "Collection" programs, member discounts, etc) and are governed by all rules and responsibilities of the organization (maintenance fees, banking, borrowing, 11/7 priority windows).

The responsibility to understand the ramifications of the purchase is that of the buyer. IMHO, DVC has no responsibility to educate a resale buyer prior to their purchase. DVC does have the responsibility to provide membership information to all members- regardless how they became a member.

 

[EmptyNester]

We almost bought through Disney (BCV), but decided to by an OKW resale instead.

The paperwork required for a resale is very limited. (No handbook or Public Offering Statement) For my own piece of mind, I requested (and received) a copy of the OKW POS to review before we completed our purchase. (The Timeshare Store loaned me a copy, it was not provided by Disney).

Disney name, or not, we needed to know what we were agreeing to when we handed over that big check!

 

[Cap]

Perhaps we need a FAQ regarding resales, that suggests certain minimum things people comtemplating buying a resale should understand / do:
- understand banking / borrowing process
- understand 11 month priority at home resort only
- understand maximum occupancy rules
- understand that annual dues will be charged
- understand cleaning / towel process versus cash rentals
- etc.

We purchased directly from Disney first, and then bought a resale about a year later. Thus we were informed because we had gone through DVC. We didn't get much info from the resale seller or the resale agent. To be fair, that is perhaps because they knew we were already DVC members.

 

[Doctor P]

I used to own a condominium in Massachusetts and one of the rules of the association was that the documents had to be provided to the buyer prior to making a sale (it was in the condominium agreement) and the seller was held liable for the buyer's breach unless they could prove that they had met their responsibility of providing the documents. I am not trying to get legalistic or make it tougher to do a resale. All that would really be necessary is that when the sale is presented to Disney, there is a signed statement from the seller and buyer that the buyer has received the appropriate documents from the seller. Perhaps this is unreasonable to expect, but I don't think it is onerous or would be a barrier to resales. BTW, fee I was thinking about was nominal to cover transmission ($10-25), not enough to sway a sale. I know when I bought my house, there was a clause that it was subject to all the limitations in a development agreement that went with the land.

 

[OKWKirt]

Doctor P, I must be one of the minority that fully agree with you. When we buy from DVC and become a "member of the Disney Vacation Club" we sign stating we are aware of the rules and regulations. Any new member to the "Disney Vacation Club", even through resales, should also be aware of all rules and regulations. I don't know why it would cost anything to sign one more piece of paper. I think DVC should assure itself that all members are aware of, and follow the rules and regulations before they enter them into the system. That just protects all of us.

 

[spiceycat]

You would have to change the Florida Laws - Disney can't control what outsiders do but the State of Florida can. Resalers aren't licenced by Disney - but they are licensed by the State of Florida. You can't be responsible for something you have no control of - Disney has no control of the resalers.

So even if Disney would like the resalers to do this - they can't - Disney is a corporation they can't tell other companies what to do.

Sorry but the only way to make this change is through the Florida legislators.

 

[crisi]

I think Disney could.

They could do it as part of the right of first refusal. They simply refuse to let any resale contract go through that didn't have the checklist signed.

We bought resale and never signed one. The only documents I have is the deed (or rather, a copy of the deed), the contracts for sale, and the member guidebook.

The documentation pre sale was pretty scarce. The documentation post sale isn't much better (the guidebook - which is woefully inadequate).

(I do recall signing something that said I wouldn't transfer my points for cash compensation - i.e. rent - or is that just faulty recall?).

 

[spiceycat]

I think that the right of first refusal states that it is a money issue (okay I don't remember I will have to look at the contract to be sure). but if it just states that disney has the right of first refusal and does not list the reasons - then yes - maybe DVC should take a more active role in resales.

 

[OKWKirt]

I think it makes since that ALL members of the Club (DVC) know the rules and regulations. I have never done a resale but it is sounding like those new members are not learning, knowing, and understanding whet they are buying. DVC has to give them a membership number, right? Before you get a membership number, and can use the club, you must know the rules and regulations, and sign stating you do. I don't see how that would go against anything with the FL State sales or put any "Disney" pressure on a sale.

 

[Doctor P]

It just breaks my heart when someone who has bought a resale is uninformed as to the rules and regulations that they have to abide by that might have influenced their decision to purchase or not to purchase. And I am not sure that it is easy to ask the right questions so that these things come out. I repeat that I am not interested in making anyone's life tougher, or interested in making resales less attractive. My concern is that people are able to get the information they need or should have both easily and reliably. This is just one suggestion as to how it might be done. I would love to hear some other ideas that might serve the same purpose.

 

[Dean]

Disney can only impose what is required in the deed. If it's in the POS but not restricted in the deed language, there is no control. Obviously fighting the proverbial 600# Gorilla (Disney) would be an uphill battle but it can be done. DVD covers itself pretty dogone well but I don't see how they could impose a product checklist. They could offer one for informational purposes and it's not a bad idea. Still the responsibility lies with the buyer to understand what they are buying.