I mean at this point, why is anyone buying direct?

[RoseGold]

To be fair, it would be difficult for a computer to tell what class of DVC you are. There's too many variables. Sure, if you bought before X date, but you have to have bought X points. And even resale can qualify, if it was grandfathered. You could have sold that contract, there's just a lot of factors.

Even my account that looks straightforward White Card, with resale long after grandfathering, could have been inherited or gratuitously transfered.

Obviously, the system has to know how to treat the points themselves, I would imagine that's why points take so long to load. But it can't figure out how to translate that to class. Plenty of cases of people having to call to get their status fixed. It wouldn't surprise me if there are mistakes loading points as well. It's an intentionally complex system with many classes of members.

 

[DonMacGregor]

To be fair, it would be difficult for a computer to tell what class of DVC you are. There's too many variables. Sure, if you bought before X date, but you have to have bought X points. And even resale can qualify, if it was grandfathered. You could have sold that contract, there's just a lot of factors.

And, all of those variables are fluid and changing constantly. The system would need to update constantly as contracts are bought and sold and as members transition to and from eligibility for perks.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

And, all of those variables are fluid and changing constantly. The system would need to update constantly as contracts are bought and sold and as members transition to and from eligibility for perks.

Did the original resale owners get blue cards?

I thought the white cards came out after the restrictions started….

Seems like it would be a simple yes or no for a computer system to check for discounts

 

[Sandisw]

Did the original resale owners get blue cards?

I thought the white cards came out after the restrictions started….

Seems like it would be a simple yes or no for a computer system to check for discounts

Yes. Prior to April 2016 when they made membership extras for those with direct points only, everyone was given a DVC membership card.

In 2016, when restrictions came into play, those accounts that did not qualify were no longer given a card, and simply had access to the digital notation on their accounts which was called "membership identification". It was white and thus the term, white card, was coined.

Owners printed it out from there. Everyone else who was eligible was sent the blue membership card from DVC until last year when it all went digital.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Yes. Prior to April 2016 when they made membership extras for those with direct points only, everyone was given a DVC membership card.

In 2016, when restrictions came into play, those accounts that did not qualify were no longer given a card, and simply had access to the digital notation on their accounts which was called "membership identification". It was white and thus the term, white card, was coined.

Owners printed it out from there. Everyone else who was eligible was sent the blue membership card from DVC until last year when it all went digital.

Thanks, that is what I thought

 

[DonMacGregor]

Seems like it would be a simple yes or no for a computer system to check for discounts

The problem arises when someone sells their direct points and loses eligibility or buys enough direct to gain it. I’m not saying the question isn’t binary, because it is definitely yes or no. The issue is simply that there are so many ways to gain or lose membership extras (with so many members enjoying benefits based on different criteria) that the database of yes or no needs nearly constant updating. That’s all.

 

[StarCruzer]

The problem arises when someone sells their direct points and loses eligibility or buys enough direct to gain it. I’m not saying the question isn’t binary, because it is definitely yes or no. The issue is simply that there are so many ways to gain or lose membership extras (with so many members enjoying benefits based on different criteria) that the database of yes or no needs nearly constant updating. That’s all.

Exactly. Especially because, as we've seen acutely with the Southwest Airlines meltdown, many executives don't want to spend money to upgrade software systems that don't actively increase company profits--no matter how much more convenient and time saving it would be for employees or customers.

 

[sethschroeder]

To be fair, it would be difficult for a computer to tell what class of DVC you are.

It's dead easy to make honestly. I deal with way more complex formulas than a linear time line that needs to be checked.

Heck it's not even live data it only needs to be checked upon a new entry record of a new membership or addition of points.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

The problem arises when someone sells their direct points and loses eligibility or buys enough direct to gain it. I’m not saying the question isn’t binary, because it is definitely yes or no. The issue is simply that there are so many ways to gain or lose membership extras (with so many members enjoying benefits based on different criteria) that the database of yes or no needs nearly constant updating. That’s all.

I see it as any other club. Say the local country club. You have voting members and non voting members..... Guess who can vote....

Either you meet the qualifications for the "BLUE CARD" or you don't.... If you sell your member ship that got you the blue card you are no longer a blue card member....

No matter how many variables you want to add either you have a blue card or don't.

And yes the system would have to update daily. I know Disney computers are from the 90's but I would hope they could handle it.


I/O

 

[RoseGold]

It's dead easy to make honestly. I deal with way more complex formulas than a linear time line that needs to be checked.

Heck it's not even live data it only needs to be checked upon a new entry record of a new membership or addition of points.

It's not a linear timeline. Even someone who looks White Card like me could have inherited or gotten a gratuitous transfer. Each transaction could have different status, and date doesn't determine that status. And I could have bought my points direct from a sold out resort recently.

I mean, yea, Disney probably should have figured out some way to track this when they made their system so complicated, but I can see why it is beyond the struggling Disney IT.

 

[davidhr]

It's dead easy to make honestly. I deal with way more complex formulas than a linear time line that needs to be checked.

Heck it's not even live data it only needs to be checked upon a new entry record of a new membership or addition of points.

This should be a pretty easy flow diagram.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I see it as any other club. Say the local country club. You have voting members and non voting members..... Guess who can vote....

Either you meet the qualifications for the "BLUE CARD" or you don't.... If you sell your member ship that got you the blue card you are no longer a blue card member....

No matter how many variables you want to add either you have a blue card or don't.

And yes the system would have to update daily. I know Disney computers are from the 90's but I would hope they could handle it.


I/O

I'm not sure what your argument is. I already said I am a firm believer in the Blue Card / No Blue Card differentiation. That wasn't even remotely the point I was making.

I simply said that there are too many variables in membership qualification to make it a simple "sell a contract, lose your eligibility" function. If you were an existing resale member and bought 150 points direct last year (in several contracts), and you sold one to drop below 150, then you'd lose the eligibility. Simple. If you became eligible at 125 points, then you'd have to drop below that threshold before losing it. If you bought in when the minimum was 75 points, then that's the threshold. If you were grandfathered in when there was no threshold and all you had was resale points, then that's a different formula. That was the only point I was making. It's not simply setting a numerical value across the board, or setting some effective date. Each membership has at least 4 criteria: direct or resale points, the date of original purchase, the effective date of eligibility, and the points threshold for eligibility when eligibility was reached. Clearly a process that can be programmed into a computer, assuming the correct databases exist and are merged properly.

As to Disney's computers, we all know there have been plenty of occasions where a grandfathered Blue Card member was denied an AP, or entrance to a Moonlight Magic, or some other Membership Extra. In other words, they have made it far more difficult themselves.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I'm not sure what your argument is. I already said I am a firm believer in the Blue Card / No Blue Card differentiation. That wasn't even remotely the point I was making.

I simply said that there are too many variables in membership qualification to make it a simple "sell a contract, lose your eligibility" function. If you were an existing resale member and bought 150 points direct last year (in several contracts), and you sold one to drop below 150, then you'd lose the eligibility. Simple. If you became eligible at 125 points, then you'd have to drop below that threshold before losing it. If you bought in when the minimum was 75 points, then that's the threshold. If you were grandfathered in when there was no threshold and all you had was resale points, then that's a different formula. That was the only point I was making. It's not simply setting a numerical value across the board, or setting some effective date. Each membership has at least 4 criteria: direct or resale points, the date of original purchase, the effective date of eligibility, and the points threshold for eligibility when eligibility was reached. Clearly a process that can be programmed into a computer, assuming the correct databases exist and are merged properly.

As to Disney's computers, we all know there have been plenty of occasions where a grandfathered Blue Card member was denied an AP, or entrance to a Moonlight Magic, or some other Membership Extra. In other words, they have made it far more difficult themselves.

I wasn't arguing.
I was restating my / our point and highlighting Disney 30 year old computer system should still be able to keep track of this ....

 

[AstroBlasters]

No, they aren't. I just find it immensely amusing that the barely hidden subtext of "I saved XX thousand dollars" is "and anyone who buys the same contract direct is an idiot and I don't care about perks". A perk is a perk. Either care about them or don't. You never hear people complaining about $5 AP-only merchandise...

I don’t agree that discussing the savings of going resale implies that the poster is trying to say that “anyone who buys direct is an idiot”.

Buying is an emotional decision and Disney decided to using the fear of restrictions (as opposed to giving tangible benefits) to sell their product at above free market prices. I think it’s important to let people who are looking for information about buying DVC to know that there are other options that could be significantly less expensive so that they take a beat to calculate the financial impact of various paths.

If they run the numbers and feel that the benefits of direct are worth the additional price, then they made the decision that is best for them. But at least they took the time to actually look at the numbers.

That is completely different from Disney telling a whole class of members that they can’t buy a merchandise that allows them to express the pride of their membership. It is petty. But, whatever Disney doesn’t want to do, you can usually just find someone on Etsy that will do it for a lower price. The free market always wins.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I don’t agree that discussing the savings of going resale implies that the poster is is trying to say that “anyone who buys direct is an idiot”.

Agree to disagree. I never said it was every resale buyer, or even a majority of them, but there is zero doubt that there is a significant cadre of posters who take particular delight in boasting about how much they saved and gleefully pointing out that, in their mind, direct buyers are foolishly wasting their money paying for a premium product that provides zero additional benefits over resale.

In fact, in my previous post to the one you quoted I said as much:

“Like I've said, some resale buyers go out of their way to take every opportunity to point out just how much they saved over direct, almost wearing it like a badge, and how little any of the meaningless perks mean to them.”

I own both resale and direct, so you’ll never see me disparaging either option, but there are plenty of posters who most certainly do.

None of that has anything to do with the vast majority of resale purchasers who make intelligent and measured decisions based on their own circumstances, and decide that buying resale makes the most sense for them financially and logistically.

 

[Jimmy Geppetto]

Agree to disagree. I never said it was every resale buyer, or even a majority of them, but there is zero doubt that there is a significant cadre of posters who take particular delight in boasting about how much they saved and gleefully pointing out that, in their mind, direct buyers are foolishly wasting their money paying for a premium product that provides zero additional benefits over resale.

In fact, in my previous post to the one you quoted I said as much:

“Like I've said, some resale buyers go out of their way to take every opportunity to point out just how much they saved over direct, almost wearing it like a badge, and how little any of the meaningless perks mean to them.”

I own both resale and direct, so you’ll never see me disparaging either option, but there are plenty of posters who most certainly do.

None of that has anything to do with the vast majority of resale purchasers who make intelligent and measured decisions based on their own circumstances, and decide that buying resale makes the most sense for them financially and logistically.

Some resale buyers also go out of their way to share their dissatisfaction when CMs decline their merch discount now that digital cards are here.

Just on my way home from Aulani and I witnessed it twice in person.

Could get interesting if APs come back.

 

[AC168]

To me, the marginal benefits of direct are significantly lower than the marginal costs now so I’ll be a resale person for a while. If things changed enough, I could go direct but things would have to change a lot for me to think it is worth the premium.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Some resale buyers also go out of their way to share their dissatisfaction when CMs decline their merch discount now that digital cards are here.

Just on my way home from Aulani and I witnessed it twice in person.

Could get interesting if APs come back.

We can add that to the “Don’t Be a DVC Karen” list….

 

[Minniesgal]

Totally agree

 

[pianomanzano]

It's dead easy to make honestly. I deal with way more complex formulas than a linear time line that needs to be checked.

Heck it's not even live data it only needs to be checked upon a new entry record of a new membership or addition of points.

Agreed. Figuring out how to program eligibility is like high school computer science. Hell you could up with some nested if statements in excel and come up with a database of eligible members.