GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[osufeth24]

Whatever makes you feel better about Covid-19. You can't lump the whole country in this. N.Y state is seeing cases dropping while Florida, Texas and Arizona are doing the exact opposite.

LOL whatever bud, the data doesn't lie. You're just afraid to admit you have been wrong about it.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Whatever makes you feel better about Covid-19. You can't lump the whole country in this. N.Y state is seeing cases dropping while Florida, Texas and Arizona are doing the exact opposite.

I've said this before, but if you are going to discount NY's declining cases, you also have to discount their total case count and deaths in the US numbers. You don't get to cherry pick when their numbers are included or not.

 

[71 Truck]

Let me spell it out for people. NO ONE I repeat, NO ONE has said to keep us locked in our house for longer. Majority do agree with opening businesses but safely. The issue comes in that most states are lacking in strict social distancing guidelines. Its funny how the majority of theme parks across the country have stricter social distancing measures then most other businesses in the country. IMO all businesses should have the same social distancing measures in place. That to me is how we live with Covid-19. It really isn't hard to do social distancing and wear a mask when needed. Its not like building the pyramids but I guess for many it is.

I was a little confused when I first read your post. Then a few minutes later you edited it.
Yes you are correct. There are ways to live with the virus, social distancing and wearing the proper mask correctly will help a lot. This is what I posted earlier.

The big problem I see at least where I live is most people do not know how to properly wear a mask. At least 50% of the people have a mask that does not cover their nose or fit tight to their face. People also have to understand the a mask has to have holes in it to allow air in for you to breath. If those holes are bigger than the size of a virus it is like water going through a screen. To me a mask is a false sense of security. You could be wearing the best made N95 mask ever made but if the person next to you is wearing a basic face covering because N95 mask are not available and coughs they are spreading the virus.

You are right it is not like building the pyramids but for some people either they have never been trained or do not care.

 

[osufeth24]

If I ever go to NY again, I'll make sure to bring my passport since apparently they aren't part of the country anymore

 

[Jrb1979]

I've said this before, but if you are going to discount NY's declining cases, you also have to discount their total case count and deaths in the US numbers. You don't get to cherry pick when their numbers are included or not.

I'm saying to compare region to region. Of course Nationally the numbers look better. If you go state by state things don't look as good. N.Y.s numbers are looking better then Florida's at this point in time. All so am trying to get across is things while things are better then in March we are still far from out of the woods yet.


https://www.wftv.com/news/local/flo...er-1700-new-cases/RAMHERVATVCW3JE2OXENVXVMZM/

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I'm saying to compare region to region. Of course Nationally the numbers look better. If you go state by state things don't look as good. N.Y.s numbers are looking better then Florida's at this point in time. All so am trying to get across is things while things are better then in March we are still far from out of the woods yet.


https://www.wftv.com/news/local/flo...er-1700-new-cases/RAMHERVATVCW3JE2OXENVXVMZM/

NY's numbers look better than FL's because NY spiked and FL didn't. CA, FL, etc will never be able to match the drastic drop NY has right now because they never got as high. I said this on this thread (or another Covid thread) this morning - NY is the Matterhorn and CA/FL are the bunny hills. You aren't comparing the same things. That isn't excusing states that are in trouble. But then make them standalones. Don't compare them to NY.

I'm just so tired of people now saying the country numbers look better because NY's numbers are falling so much and it doesn't count. If that's the case, then their total positives and deaths shouldn't count either. We wouldn't have looked so bad nationally if not for NY.

And you and I agree on not being out of the woods. And the need for masks and social distance. But I think the masks thing is a horse that's already left the stable. Mistakes were made, so now we work with what is, not what we wish had happened.

ETA: we can only hope now that health depts will start requiring masks as a way to contain the virus instead of lockdowns, which is what Orange County, CA says they'll do.

 

[kymom99]

I'm saying to compare region to region. Of course Nationally the numbers look better. If you go state by state things don't look as good. N.Y.s numbers are looking better then Florida's at this point in time. All so am trying to get across is things while things are better then in March we are still far from out of the woods yet.


https://www.wftv.com/news/local/flo...er-1700-new-cases/RAMHERVATVCW3JE2OXENVXVMZM/

The US is too big to look at as a whole. One of the things they have said from the beginning is after we flatten the curve we have to look for hot spots. It’s foolish to look at this on a national level. Doing that masks the fact that the virus may be grabbing hold in new spots. People need to be informed of when and where this happens so they can take precautions.

 

[fla4fun]

It's been 4 months since the first death.
It's been a little over 2 months since the lockdowns/cancellations started.

My lockdown started March 15th, so three months as of yesterday . . . Feels much longer.

I am actually on vacation this week, visiting family about an hour and a half away from my home. It’s really night and day as far as how people are behaving. Where I live, it’s still very shut down, and masks everywhere, although our county does not have a high rate of infection. Here, in a beach community, me, my Sister, and BIL are still wearing masks anywhere we go and social distancing, but we are in the minority. Even the hotel I am staying in . . . although they only service the room every five days, no one at the front desk wears masks. I asked and they said they aren’t required here. The rate of infection here, at least the day I left to come over, is virtually identical to the infection rate at home where things are more restrictive. Since my BIL has extra restrictions due to his work (can’t travel outside a certain radius without a quarantine upon return type of stuff) we are just continuing to be extra cautious. So far (knocking on wood) I only know one person who has come down with the virus, a cousin in Jacksonville, and his case was mild and he is fully recovered.

I have a Disney trip planned for late August, and after canceling two during lockdown, I really want to be able to go and have some fun.

 

[shelemm]

But we accept a certain number of deaths from countless other causes every day, every year. Why have covid deaths become more important or somehow more preventable?

I’m not out and about like crazy. I’ll admit that I was too scared to go and join the protests, I wear a mask whenever I’m indoors, and I practice social distancing.

but I’m not about to pretend like we treat all other (many of them preventable) deaths with the same vehemence that we’re treating covid deaths. I absolutely think we should Continue social distancing and people should wear masks when it makes sense but I also think we have to start learning to live with this and not be waiting for it to go away.

It's hard to believe that people are still making these arguments based on faulty premises.

Fallacy #1: We don't simply 'accept' deaths, from any source. Our society puts forth a tremendous effort to minimize death from just about anything that has risk.
Fallacy #2: We are not just 'waiting for it to go away.' Although we jettisoned important programs to help us prepare for a pandemic, we are trying to advance on all fronts to deal realistically with both preventing death and helping people function.
Fallacy #3: The economy is only hurt because of a shutdown. Lack of preparedness hurt the economy. Lack of PPE hurt the economy. Mass deaths hurt the economy.
Fallacy #4: We know how bad it's going to get, so we have a way to compare it to other causes of death.. No, we don't. a second wave in the Fall/Winter Spring could be less deadly or a lot more deadly. Some places that have been spared the horrors we saw in Italy and Spain are now in a position to see a deadly spike absent deep concern for safety.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

It's hard to believe that people are still making these arguments based on faulty premises.

Fallacy #1: We don't simply 'accept' deaths, from any source. Our society puts forth a tremendous effort to minimize death from just about anything that has risk.
we minimize death to the extent that makes sense financially. Certain treatments and drugs that are helpful but can’t be patented stop being produced. Cars/factories/whatever could be safer, but it’s sometimes cheaper for companies to pay individuals who get maimed or killed than to issue a recall. Actuarial tables basically put a dollar amount on every human life and body part. That’s used to calculate a whole lot of what constitutes acceptable. We absolutely do accept a certain number of deaths as “the cost of doing business” of daily life.


Fallacy #2: We are not just 'waiting for it to go away.' Although we jettisoned important programs to help us prepare for a pandemic, we are trying to advance on all fronts to deal realistically with both preventing death and helping people function.

afraid I’ll step into political territory on this one.

Fallacy #3: The economy is only hurt because of a shutdown. Lack of preparedness hurt the economy. Lack of PPE hurt the economy. Mass deaths hurt the economy.

I certainly haven’t said that only the lockdowns have hurt the economy, the whole global pandemic has hurt the economy, but shutdowns have a big impact. Maintaining social distancing is having an impact, lots of businesses can’t operate at a profit with reduced capacity. People have missed paychecks and bills and are scared and not spending regardless of what’s open. It’s complex with lots of factors but looking at ways to start getting things moving and addressing the economic and social impacts is just as important as addressing the virus.

Fallacy #4: We know how bad it's going to get, so we have a way to compare it to other causes of death.. No, we don't. a second wave in the Fall/Winter Spring could be less deadly or a lot more deadly. Some places that have been spared the horrors we saw in Italy and Spain are now in a position to see a deadly spike absent deep concern for safety.

I don’t think anybody has claimed to know how bad things will get. But I haven’t seen outrage over cancer deaths due to lack of access to preventative screening or car related fatalities, or the flu like I have over covid deaths. There seems to be a much stronger morality attached to these deaths. Maybe it’s driven by fear or politics, but it feels very different.

At the end of the day, nobody has a crystal ball and we’re all speaking from our knowledge, experience, and privilege (or lack thereof). It’s all a spectrum, you think our society values individual (or mass) life greater than I do. There’s no standard or overarching proof for something like that. It’s all our own perspective, conjecture and opinion.

In uncharted waters, nobody knows what the right course is. It’s all best guess and opinion (hopefully educated). We’ll only know after it’s all over if it was right or wrong. I imagine economists, epidemiologists, and anthropologists will be analyzing the decisions for decades to figure out what impact each had, throw in some differentiating factors with each country, region, culture, socioeconomic standing and I’m not sure we’ll ever have a true answer even after all the data has come and gone.

 

[EmJ]

NY's numbers look better than FL's because NY spiked and FL didn't. CA, FL, etc will never be able to match the drastic drop NY has right now because they never got as high. I said this on this thread (or another Covid thread) this morning - NY is the Matterhorn and CA/FL are the bunny hills. You aren't comparing the same things. That isn't excusing states that are in trouble. But then make them standalones. Don't compare them to NY.

I'm just so tired of people now saying the country numbers look better because NY's numbers are falling so much and it doesn't count. If that's the case, then their total positives and deaths shouldn't count either. We wouldn't have looked so bad nationally if not for NY.

And you and I agree on not being out of the woods. And the need for masks and social distance. But I think the masks thing is a horse that's already left the stable. Mistakes were made, so now we work with what is, not what we wish had happened.

ETA: we can only hope now that health depts will start requiring masks as a way to contain the virus instead of lockdowns, which is what Orange County, CA says they'll do.

Orange County backed off their mask requirement, no?

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Orange County backed off their mask requirement, no?

Yes. With the idea if their numbers get out of control, they'll make them mandatory - in hopes it would be enough they wouldn't need another SIP.

 

[shelemm]

At the end of the day, nobody has a crystal ball and we’re all speaking from our knowledge, experience, and privilege (or lack thereof).

In uncharted waters, nobody knows what the right course is. It’s all best guess and opinion (hopefully educated).

That's nice. But not everyone's best guess or opinion is based on the same knowledge. There are folks who have studied epidemiology, for example, so I'd say their opinion has more value. That's why they were warning us for years to be prepared. The warnings were dismissed, ignored, and their programs dismantled before this hit.

So my question for you right now is: are you going to listen to the people who know more and were right? or are you going to listen to the folks who know less and are consistently wrong?

I haven’t seen outrage over cancer deaths due to lack of access to preventative screening or car related fatalities,

There is tremendous grief about cancer, and it would turn into outrage if programs to prevent or cure it were dismantled before a 'cancer pandemic.' And there is outrage over drunk driving and how lightly people get off. If it were contagious then that would multiply exponentially. Your continued use of these faulty analogies is a pandemic of another sort.

I know you think this is political, but it's not. White House guidelines have been being ignored.

 

[HeatherC]

Dear lord everyone. Just wear the mask and social distance. Then we can all revisit the data when cases actually do decline.

 

[tippity]

During the lock down Cancer diagnoses were reduced. Hospitals were not allowed to perform elective surgeries and biopsies are designated as elective.
Also, cancer treatments were stopped in a lot of areas. Covid -19 deaths may have been prevented, did this result in a cancer death increase?
People cite epidiomiologists and infectious disease MD's, as the experts. But this is a novel virus, meaning the experts are speculating on what will happen. They don't know.

 

[kymom99]

During the lock down Cancer diagnoses were reduced. Hospitals were not allowed to perform elective surgeries and biopsies are designated as elective.
Also, cancer treatments were stopped in a lot of areas. Covid -19 deaths may have been prevented, did this result in a cancer death increase?
People cite epidiomiologists and infectious disease MD's, as the experts. But this is a novel virus, meaning the experts are speculating on what will happen. They don't know.

That’s not true everywhere. My brother in law had his last cancer treatment in April. We had a car parade for him.

 

[Suger Mag]

I was a little confused when I first read your post. Then a few minutes later you edited it.
Yes you are correct. There are ways to live with the virus, social distancing and wearing the proper mask correctly will help a lot. This is what I posted earlier.

The big problem I see at least where I live is most people do not know how to properly wear a mask. At least 50% of the people have a mask that does not cover their nose or fit tight to their face. People also have to understand the a mask has to have holes in it to allow air in for you to breath. If those holes are bigger than the size of a virus it is like water going through a screen. To me a mask is a false sense of security. You could be wearing the best made N95 mask ever made but if the person next to you is wearing a basic face covering because N95 mask are not available and coughs they are spreading the virus.

You are right it is not like building the pyramids but for some people either they have never been trained or do not care.

When you exhale, you do not exhale pure individual virus. You exhale relatively large droplets that can contain the virus and any other stuff. Yes the virus itself is way tinier than the holes in the weave, but you are actually exhaling droplets of water (all the time when you talk, cough, sneeze etc), and it is those droplets that are large enough so that they are caught in the fabric.

Masks protect others from your exhaled germs.... Surgeons have been wearing cloth surgical masks long before the n95 existed for this very reason.

I don't get the reasoning that if something is not 100% then what is the point... my seatbelt or carseat is not a 100% guarantee against injury in a car accident, but no way am I driving without them...

nice article from John's Hopkins

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea.../coronavirus-face-masks-what-you-need-to-know

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

That’s not true everywhere. My brother in law had his last cancer treatment in April. We had a car parade for him.

It may not have been true everywhere, but it was true many places.

But congratulations to your BIL on his final cancer treatment! That’s something to celebrate

 

[kymom99]

It may not have been true everywhere, but it was true many places.

But congratulations to your BIL on his final cancer treatment! That’s something to celebrate

He had colon cancer. He fought like a champ and is cancer free. Cancer is a terrible disease.

 

[Searc]

That’s not true everywhere. My brother in law had his last cancer treatment in April. We had a car parade for him.

Agreed. Necessary treatments were continued in a lot of places.