GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[71 Truck]

Interesting that countries all around the world shut down for this virus. That seems to mark this as something different. I don't understand what makes America's socio-political structure provide some sort of super immunity to this pandemic? Within the past few weeks a UK health minister publicly stated that if they had shut down one week earlier than they did (their original strategy had been to ride it out) they would have halved their death rate.

Americas socio-political structure does not give them any sort of super immunity. People just get tired and go back to living their lives knowing the risk and taking as many personal precautions as they are comfortable with.
If people are afraid to catch any virus it is ok for them to stay home as much as posible and when they go out put on a mask.

 

[cmp3400]

Yes.

Example:

• 3 positives, 100 tests = 3%
• 2 positives, 5 tests = 40%
• 3 positives, 10 tests = 30%
• averaging the percentages would be 3%+40%+30%/3 = 24.3%
• Actual % would be 8/115 = 6.9%

so assuming I did it right (and at this point I make no promises) the 5 day average is 6.2%
Thank you for that, I really do want to understand and have the best information

 

[shelemm]

Positivity rate will go up depending on who is tested. People who can well isolate will come up with a lower rate. People who rely on public transportation and have jobs that face to many customers will probably come up with a higher rate.

Testing is good. In the short term if you can trace and quarantine, that's what will really make it effective. In the long term, consistency in a testing program can lead to public policy decisions. Though it is not clear we have had much consistency. In the absence of quality testing data, hospitalizations and deaths form a good basis of info.

 

[71 Truck]

The Hong Kong flu killed around 100,000 Americans, yes. But there were ZERO mitigation efforts in place. It was unfettered/unchecked. That was the worst outcome of the Hong Kong flu.

For COVID, we locked down and we also have put in (in most places) pretty strict distancing controls. After 3 months with many mitigations, we are over 100,000 and seeing increases now. Your comparison does not work.

For the regular, seasonal flu, we may have 60,000+ deaths. That's with no mitigation and vaccines that may or may not work well and with most of the population not getting vaccinated.

Had we not done what we did with mitigations, that death toll would have been far higher.

First off no one knows for sure how much higher the death toll might have been because we did go on a lock down.
I am not saying the lock down did not work but we will never know for sure.

As far as the death toll from the Hong Kong Flu and the seasonal flu do we except those number of deaths over time
okay? It still killed all those people.
So what number of deaths from the COVID19 virus is okay to live with.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Americas socio-political structure does not give them any sort of super immunity. People just get tired and go back to living their lives knowing the risk and taking as many personal precautions as they are comfortable with.
If people are afraid to catch any virus it is ok for them to stay home as much as posible and when they go out put on a mask.

Yes, but sadly, evidence shows it's the "other" person who needs to wear the mask for it to be most effective, not just me. It's clear that a percentage of folks don't recognize that fact or just don't really care. And I'm not necessarily afraid to catch the virus - but I am afraid of giving it to my less-than-healthy parents, who would likely die if I gave it to them. The spread isn't just my issue - it's those around me I might infect if I catch it and don't at least wear a mask to protect others. Sadly (and I'm not saying this is what you're saying - because I don't think you are), there are too many people feeling they need NO precautions, because this virus only impacts old people.

 

[pmiranda]

Without getting too much into the weeds, it’s been my understanding, at least in my state (and I assume at least to some degree in many others) that testing has been more targeted as we’ve progressed through the pandemic. Especially as contact tracing continues (another story for another time, sigh...), we are testing more and more of the population most likely to be positive. The higher number of reported cases more recently are then to be expected.

There have have always been a much higher number of unreported cases, but I think now we are seeing a paradigm shift in the perceived ratio of reported to unreported cases as we’ve become more adept at testing those morst likely to be infected. Ultimately I think people need to be responsible, for themselves and those around them. We hear mostly on the news the number of positive cases, hospitalizations and deaths (related to COVID-19), but no one seems to be reporting very much of the many, many recoveries. And when they do it’s only the hard fought cases.

I’m a 49yo male who tested positive, and the worst part of having the illness (for me) was the self quarantine. I’ve had colds (not even counting the flu) worse than this. I realize some people get it worse, and some feel next to nothing. I can only speak from my personal experience, and for me I’ve moved on. For the many families in bankruptcy, foreclosure or just struggling to get by, they will have a harder time recovering from the economic decline due to closing down the country. Just mtcw...only my opinion....and others will have their own.

 

[71 Truck]

Yes, but sadly, evidence shows it's the "other" person who needs to wear the mask for it to be most effective, not just me. It's clear that a percentage of folks don't recognize that fact or just don't really care. And I'm not necessarily afraid to catch the virus - but I am afraid of giving it to my less-than-healthy parents, who would likely die if I gave it to them. The spread isn't just my issue - it's those around me I might infect if I catch it and don't at least wear a mask to protect others. Sadly (and I'm not saying this is what you're saying - because I don't think you are), there are too many people feeling they need NO precautions, because this virus only impacts old people.

The big problem I see at least where I live is most people do not know how to properly wear a mask. At least 50% of the people have a mask that does not cover their nose or fit tight to their face. People also have to understand the a mask has to have holes in it to allow air in for you to breath. If those holes are bigger than the size of a virus it is like water going through a screen. To me a mask is a false sense of security. You could be wearing the best made N95 mask ever made but if the person next to you is wearing a basic face covering because N95 mask are not available and coughs they are spreading the virus. So in the end you are most responsible for protecting your self and your family. I can also understand about you wanting to protect your parents. I won't go into details but I can understand.
Just keep doing the best you can and be safe.

 

[RamblingMad]

Gotta love going to Bloomberg and seeing the heading; Florida Has Record New Cases. It makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and makes you want to get on a plane to visit the mouse. I’m watching the DVC price thread here. It’s super interesting in light of COVID.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Gotta love going to Bloomberg and seeing the heading; Florida Has Record New Cases. It makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and makes you want to get on a plane to visit the mouse. I’m watching the DVC price thread here. It’s super interesting in light of COVID.

I have not followed FL closely, so I won't wade into whether that headline is accurate or not. But I will caution that you be very careful in taking ANY headline for face value because they are all meant as clickbait.

Two come to mind right off the bat, this last week alone. First was how cases were spiking in many states, CA included. But further in the article it says CA was actually staying flat. The second was this latest about masks preventing a 2nd & 3rd wave. However the article actually said lockdown alone couldn't do it, so a mix of lockdown and masks. Neither article matched the headline at all.

 

[sam_gordon]

Yes, but sadly, evidence shows it's the "other" person who needs to wear the mask for it to be most effective, not just me.

I know that's been the claim, but does it really make sense? Let's say I have the virus, am shedding, and I wear a mask. MY mask stops droplets from getting through the mask and into the air around me, right? The virus is contained INSIDE the mask (except those on small enough droplets that get outside the mask). Wouldn't your mask keep the same droplets OUTSIDE the mask? If the droplets are small enough to get outside MY mask, wouldn't they be small enough to get inside YOURS?

 

[georgina]

This article (bar in Jacksonville) reminds me how easy it is to spread the virus. People not being careful and respectful of others will keep this going for a long time. I'm watching Florida and Orlando particularly for future travel.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local...ve-for-coronavirus-after-night-out-at-lynchs/

 

[RamblingMad]

This article (bar in Jacksonville) reminds me how easy it is to spread the virus. People not being careful and respectful of others will keep this going for a long time. I'm watching Florida and Orlando particularly for future travel.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local...ve-for-coronavirus-after-night-out-at-lynchs/

I’m sure the same is happening here in AZ.

 

[Christine]

First off no one knows for sure how much higher the death toll might have been because we did go on a lock down.
I am not saying the lock down did not work but we will never know for sure.

As far as the death toll from the Hong Kong Flu and the seasonal flu do we except those number of deaths over time
okay? It still killed all those people.
So what number of deaths from the COVID19 virus is okay to live with.

Of course no one knows for sure, but you can certainly extrapolate a decent guess based on what is happening. I can tell you for sure, without being a professional data analyst, is that if we had done nothing, the death toll and number of cases would not equal what we have today. It would not even be a little bit higher.

No deaths are "okay" to accept. I think you mean accept over except, correct? Because that's two different meanings. I'm sure people were horrified over the Hong Kong flu deaths and terrified. Why our governments didn't do more back then to isolate? I don't know. I was 9 years old. Doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. I think we've advanced since the 1960s on how to try to contain and soften blow of various illnesses. This particular one appeared to be spreading and a much more rapid rate than any influenza besides the Spanish flu.

 

[brockash]

My in-laws just returned from FL. They went there to close up their winter home for the season. MIL said that no one in their area (Vero Beach) wears masks in public...no store employees, servers, etc. I was shocked. Here in PA everyone wears them out in public. Even though our restaurants are open for outdoor (distanced) dining, everyone has to wear a mask until they are sitting down. All restaurant employees wear them. All store employees wear them. Why is no one in Vero (at least wherever my in-laws went) wearing them?

The vast majority of ppl. do not wear them around here either (TN.) It's not required anywhere other than on the military installation and while many ppl wore them for a few weeks when it all started; that only lasted a cpl weeks and even then it was only probably 70%.

 

[71 Truck]

Of course no one knows for sure, but you can certainly extrapolate a decent guess based on what is happening. I can tell you for sure, without being a professional data analyst, is that if we had done nothing, the death toll and number of cases would not equal what we have today. It would not even be a little bit higher.

No deaths are "okay" to accept. I think you mean accept over except, correct? Because that's two different meanings. I'm sure people were horrified over the Hong Kong flu deaths and terrified. Why our governments didn't do more back then to isolate? I don't know. I was 9 years old. Doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. I think we've advanced since the 1960s on how to try to contain and soften blow of various illnesses. This particular one appeared to be spreading and a much more rapid rate than any influenza besides the Spanish flu.

Yes you are correct I meant accept I sometimes type faster than I think. I like to go back and re read what I typed and missed it plus my spelling is not the best.

I guess the main question would still be what number of deaths is something the people would be willing to live with?
There is something I quote, risk vs reward. How much risk are we as a person or a society willing to take to live our lives.
In the united States we lose an ravage of 250,00 people or higher to preventable medical mistakes in hospitals but people still go to the hospital. We live through the seasonal flu that has a vacine and that still kills an average of 65,000 Americans every year and people accept that . About 600,00 people die from heart disease but people still do the thing that bring on most cases of it. So at what point do we wait to start living our lives again
Back during the Hong Kong flu in the 60s we did not know any better. Medical technology today is much better. At the time maybe they wanted to shut down the country but decided it would do more harm than good. I do not know but we did survive it.
Some say we will not be able to go back to normal till there is a vaccine but there may never be one.
Sometimes you just have to learn to live with it and move on. I am not saying it is right or wrong it is just my opinion.

 

[bavaria]

Also interesting to note is there are only 4 truly "international" airports in Canada: Montreal, Toronto, Calgary & Vancouver. While several other cities receive air traffic directly from the US, only the ones I mentioned receive flights directly from any other continent.

This is absolutely not true. While currently there are limited flights, there are several other airports across Canada with flights beyond the US.

 

[RamblingMad]

Yes you are correct I meant accept I sometimes type faster than I think. I like to go back and re read what I typed and missed it plus my spelling is not the best.

I guess the main question would still be what number of deaths is something the people would be willing to live with?
There is something I quote, risk vs reward. How much risk are we as a person or a society willing to take to live our lives.
In the united States we lose an ravage of 250,00 people or higher to preventable medical mistakes in hospitals but people still go to the hospital. We live through the seasonal flu that has a vacine and that still kills an average of 65,000 Americans every year and people accept that . About 600,00 people die from heart disease but people still do the thing that bring on most cases of it. So at what point do we wait to start living our lives again
Back during the Hong Kong flu in the 60s we did not know any better. Medical technology today is much better. At the time maybe they wanted to shut down the country but decided it would do more harm than good. I do not know but we did survive it.
Some say we will not be able to go back to normal till there is a vaccine but there may never be one.
Sometimes you just have to learn to live with it and move on. I am not saying it is right or wrong it is just my opinion.

How many dead people do you want a month? We’re at about a thousand a day. Are you good with two or three thousand a day? What amount can you live with?

 

[jlwhitney]

How many dead people do you want a month? We’re at about a thousand a day. Are you good with two or three thousand a day? What amount can you live with?

do you realize that around 6-8k die in the us everyday ? No one seems to care about those and many of them could have been prevented. Prespective has been lost.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

How many dead people do you want a month? We’re at about a thousand a day. Are you good with two or three thousand a day? What amount can you live with?

No we’re not. As if yesterday the 7 day rolling average was 770. The 3 day was 680. While not ideal, it isn’t 1000. So if we’re going to discuss numbers, let’s make sure they’re accurate.

 

[osufeth24]

How many dead people do you want a month? We’re at about a thousand a day. Are you good with two or three thousand a day? What amount can you live with?

roughly 1.25 million people globally die in car accidents each year, so I guess we should stop driving