GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[RamblingMad]

No we’re not. As if yesterday the 7 day rolling average was 770. The 3 day was 680. While not ideal, it isn’t 1000. So if we’re going to discuss numbers, let’s make sure they’re accurate.

Serious deflection. How many are okay dying a day?

 

[71 Truck]

How many dead people do you want a month? We’re at about a thousand a day. Are you good with two or three thousand a day? What amount can you live with?

There is no good number, 0 would be the best but that will never happen. What I am trying to point out with the statistics I quoted , because we live in a word where things like this will and do happen , sometimes we just need to learn to live with it. By thinking there is a good number to be able to live with, we will never be able to move forward with with our lives. I am just pointing out tens of thousands of people die every year from all kinds of preventable thing not just viruses we go about our lives without even thinking about it.

 

[RamblingMad]

There is no good number, 0 would be the best but that will never happen. What I am trying to point out with the statistics I quoted , because we live in a word where things like this will and do happen , sometimes we just need to learn to live with it. By thinking there is a good number to be able to live with, we will never be able to move forward with with our lives. I am just pointing out tens of thousands of people die every year from all kinds of preventable thing not just viruses we go about our lives without even thinking about it.

So if you die from it, all is good?

 

[NotUrsula]

I think that the level of caution being practiced in the US is dropping like a rock, largely because of the civil rights protests. I wholeheartedly support the right to protest, but the image of so many people being shown on TV over and over again marching in close proximity and often arm-in-arm, sweating in hot weather, and largely unmasked, translates in the minds of a good part of the rest of the population as, "Well, guess that COVID horse has already left the barn." A huge number of people believe that it has now become pointless to continue to try to use masks and distancing to slow the spread, and that visual also presents the perfect fatalistic justification for those who already were grousing about doing it.

Me? I continue to politely wear my mask and repetitively wash my hands in public, in the hope that they are wrong.

 

[RamblingMad]

I think that the level of caution being practiced in the US is dropping like a rock, largely because of the civil rights protests. I wholeheartedly support the right to protest, but the image of so many people being shown on TV over and over again marching in close proximity and often arm-in-arm, sweating in hot weather, and largely unmasked, translates in the minds of a good part of the rest of the population as, "Well, guess that COVID horse has already left the barn." A huge number of people believe that it has now become pointless to continue to try to use masks and distancing to slow the spread, and that visual also presents the perfect fatalistic justification for those who already were grousing about doing it.

Me? I continue to politely wear my mask and repetitively wash my hands in public, in the hope that they are wrong.

The folks that I see not wearing mask are the ones that think they can’t die from it. They don’t care.

 

[msjprincess]

I think that the level of caution being practiced in the US is dropping like a rock, largely because of the civil rights protests. I wholeheartedly support the right to protest, but the image of so many people being shown on TV over and over again marching in close proximity and often arm-in-arm, sweating in hot weather, and largely unmasked, translates in the minds of a good part of the rest of the population as, "Well, guess that COVID horse has already left the barn." A huge number of people believe that it has now become pointless to continue to try to use masks and distancing to slow the spread, and that visual also presents the perfect fatalistic justification for those who already were grousing about doing it.

Me? I continue to politely wear my mask and repetitively wash my hands in public, in the hope that they are wrong.

It's funny how different things are I'm different areas. The majority of the protestors I've seen in person have been wearing masks.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

Of course no one knows for sure, but you can certainly extrapolate a decent guess based on what is happening. I can tell you for sure, without being a professional data analyst, is that if we had done nothing, the death toll and number of cases would not equal what we have today. It would not even be a little bit higher.

No deaths are "okay" to accept. I think you mean accept over except, correct? Because that's two different meanings. I'm sure people were horrified over the Hong Kong flu deaths and terrified. Why our governments didn't do more back then to isolate? I don't know. I was 9 years old. Doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. I think we've advanced since the 1960s on how to try to contain and soften blow of various illnesses. This particular one appeared to be spreading and a much more rapid rate than any influenza besides the Spanish flu.

But we accept a certain number of deaths from countless other causes every day, every year. Why have covid deaths become more important or somehow more preventable?

I’m not out and about like crazy. I’ll admit that I was too scared to go and join the protests, I wear a mask whenever I’m indoors, and I practice social distancing.

but I’m not about to pretend like we treat all other (many of them preventable) deaths with the same vehemence that we’re treating covid deaths. I absolutely think we should Continue social distancing and people should wear masks when it makes sense but I also think we have to start learning to live with this and not be waiting for it to go away.

 

[71 Truck]

So if you die from it, all is good?

Do I want to die from anything that can be prevented NO but some times I have no control over it.
If I am out driving my car and I am killed in a crash through no fault of my own that is life.
If I catch a virus and die from it it sucks to be me but the fear is not going to stop me from living my life. I take the best precautions in life I can and move on.
I was a firefighter for many years. I was almost killed more than once but I still went back to it.
Risk vs Reward.
I am willing to take a chance doing any thing in my life I like to do and not to spend the rest of my life hiding in my home.
I am not saying this is best for everyone this just works for me.

 

[RamblingMad]

But we accept a certain number of deaths from countless other causes every day, every year. Why have covid deaths become more important or somehow more preventable?

I’m not out and about like crazy. I’ll admit that I was too scared to go and join the protests, I wear a mask whenever I’m indoors, and I practice social distancing.

but I’m not about to pretend like we treat all other (many of them preventable) deaths with the same vehemence that we’re treating covid deaths. I absolutely think we should Continue social distancing and people should wear masks when it makes sense but I also think we have to start learning to live with this and not be waiting for it to go away.

I want to hear that from the people most statistically likely to die from it.

 

[gina2000]

There is no acceptable number if you are ground zero. I’m high risk and I take precautions. I’m in NJ and people wear masks if they are shopping because it is mandated. But there have been protests and beach parties where most young people have shed their masks and inhibitions. I often wonder how someone in one of these unmasked crowds would feel if he/she brought this home to a family member who becomes very ill or passes away. Masks are hot, uncomfortable, and at the very least, inconvenient. Unfortunately, a mask may not be the protection necessary to prevent all transmission. It’s the best we have right now. Isn’t it worth it to use one if it might save a life?

Oh, and by the way, do you know anyone who has had it, survived after a hospital stint, and talked about it? It’s pretty damned awful.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Serious deflection. How many are okay dying a day?

It is not a deflection. But we can’t have a true conversation if people are throwing around incorrect numbers.

 

[godisney14]

But we accept a certain number of deaths from countless other causes every day, every year. Why have covid deaths become more important or somehow more preventable?

I’m not out and about like crazy. I’ll admit that I was too scared to go and join the protests, I wear a mask whenever I’m indoors, and I practice social distancing.

but I’m not about to pretend like we treat all other (many of them preventable) deaths with the same vehemence that we’re treating covid deaths. I absolutely think we should Continue social distancing and people should wear masks when it makes sense but I also think we have to start learning to live with this and not be waiting for it to go away.

What other highly communicable pathogen is currently affecting the country with varying health consequences—that we don’t have a treatment or vaccine for?



And, I still don’t get the objection to masks. There are countries around the world that wear masks as if it’s part of daily life and they’re not dying from it.
The people in this country can’t take any inconvenience to daily life.
This country, with no universal health system, would rather deal with the consequences of health issues when they present, and are expensive and difficult to treat, rather than implement cheaper and easier precautionary measures and policies.

 

[RamblingMad]

It is not a deflection. But we can’t have a true conversation if people are throwing around incorrect numbers.

The conversation doesn’t change between our two numbers. How many dead per day before we go back to normal? How many dead per day before we lock down again? Unless you tie the numbers to some actionable event, the numbers are meaningless.

 

[sam_gordon]

The conversation doesn’t change between our two numbers. How many dead per day before we go back to normal? How many dead per day before we lock down again? Unless you tie the numbers to some actionable event, the numbers are meaningless.

OK, I'll answer. Assuming you when you say "normal", everything open, absolutely no restrictions... 100 across the country, But, that's also assuming the case counts and death counts are dropping because the death numbers will lag the case numbers. How many before we lock down again? I think you're going to have to be back at 1500-2000 a day and the counts increasing.

So what's your answer?

 

[wombat_5606]

The conversation doesn’t change between our two numbers. How many dead per day before we go back to normal? How many dead per day before we lock down again? Unless you tie the numbers to some actionable event, the numbers are meaningless.

How many people would get on a plane if 2 747's crashed every day?

Just wondering since people like to bring up those other death counts.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

The conversation doesn’t change between our two numbers. How many dead per day before we go back to normal? How many dead per day before we lock down again? Unless you tie the numbers to some actionable event, the numbers are meaningless.

Not true. Deaths are on a downward trend. That matters. So 300 less a day than you’re saying DOES matter because it means we’re heading the right direction and a faster pace than you’d like to acknowledge. But I could ask you the same, how many deaths until we’re allowed out again? Does it need to be 0 for you, which they’ve already said is untrainable here?

And I have already said I am in full support of masks and social distance, both of which are required in my area. I have never said now is the time to go back to normal. But on the flip side, I also don’t think we’re reopening too fast - at least in my state.

 

[osufeth24]

Not true. Deaths are on a downward trend. That matters. So 300 less a day than you’re saying DOES matter because it means we’re heading the right direction and a faster pace than you’d like to acknowledge. But I could ask you the same, how many deaths until we’re allowed out again? Does it need to be 0 for you, which they’ve already said is untrainable here?

And I have already said I am in full support of masks and social distance, both of which are required in my area. I have never said now is the time to go back to normal. But on the flip side, I also don’t think we’re reopening too fast - at least in my state.

agreed. Also even when/if vaccines come out, not sure we'll ever have 0 deaths forever. I'll try to find it, but I'm pretty sure a few people die from H1N1 still, and there's a vaccine for that.

 

[ronandannette]

This is absolutely not true. While currently there are limited flights, there are several other airports across Canada with flights beyond the US.

Strictly speaking there are a few that have arrivals from Mexico and the Caribbean but I'm not aware of any that have arrivals from Europe, Asia, South or Central America, Africa or Australia directly without having connected through some other city.

 

[Jrb1979]

I hope we can at least all agree this seeing this trend is good, and hope it continues

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Whatever makes you feel better about Covid-19. You can't lump the whole country in this. N.Y state is seeing cases dropping while Florida, Texas and Arizona are doing the exact opposite.

 

[Jrb1979]

Do I want to die from anything that can be prevented NO but some times I have no control over it.
If I am out driving my car and I am killed in a crash through no fault of my own that is life.
If I catch a virus and die from it it sucks to be me but the fear is not going to stop me from living my life. I take the best precautions in life I can and move on.
I was a firefighter for many years. I was almost killed more than once but I still went back to it.
Risk vs Reward.
I am willing to take a chance doing any thing in my life I like to do and not to spend the rest of my life hiding in my home.
I am not saying this is best for everyone this just works for me.

Let me spell it out for people. NO ONE I repeat, NO ONE has said to keep us locked in our house for longer. Majority do agree with opening businesses but safely. The issue comes in that most states are lacking in strict social distancing guidelines. Its funny how the majority of theme parks across the country have stricter social distancing measures then most other businesses in the country. IMO all businesses should have the same social distancing measures in place. That to me is how we live with Covid-19. It really isn't hard to do social distancing and wear a mask when needed. Its not like building the pyramids but I guess for many it is.