Girl Scout vent...........

[Chim Chiminy]

Okay, so Disney On Ice is coming to Portland and tomorrow night is Scout Night. I shared the information with my troop and parents were to let me know if they wanted tickets. Price is $14 and scouts get a really nice patch with their ticket.

Our troop has two girls from the same family, they are low income so we pay for all their needs from troop funds. Incidentally, I just signed up their two older sisters as Juliettes so that they could have some involvement in scouting and have activities to do, but it took the mom two months to return the paperwork to me!

On January 3 I asked the girls mom if they could attend the show. Just the two who are in my troop as she hadn't returned the paperwork for the other two.
She enthusiastically said Yes. My co and I were thrilled because these girls don't get to do anything. The youngest one has been in a grocery store once! in her life, when I say they don't get to do anything I mean anything...
Our thought was when will they ever have an opportunity like this again??

So this morning I remind the mom about the show tomorrow night and she looks right at me and says, "They won't be going. It's not fair to the other two." And she walks away.

I was boiling over with anger. Still am.

What I would like to say to her is this....
The tickets have been bought and are nonrefundable. We voted to pay for the tickets out of troop funds, which means the troop will be out $28 if they don't go.
Life is not fair and there will always be an activity one of the girls will get to do that the others can not. So that is not a valid excuse.

This mom is very wishy washy. She wants her girls in GS but doesn't want to do anything to help.
Didn't participate in magazine sales, took calendars to sell then asked for more (8 total) but only sold two which now leaves me with six unsold calendars since I only picked up the amount parents asked for, signed permission forms for her daughters to sell cookies but won't take them around anywhere. They don't have a phone so she can't call anyone and she doesn't drive so that is out.
Instead I am taking the girls with me on Saturday..............unless she changes her mind on that too.
She complained last year about the amount of parent participation but I ask, she can never come to meetings.
And she never comes to their ceremonies.


Okay, vent over. I think.............

 

[Amirah95]

Hello I'm with Washington Rock Council in Jersey and I have a Jr/Sr troop. I just wanted to say that I've gone through what you're going through and then some. I would just take it as a loss and not do it again. I would be fuming too, but what can you do? Some parents do not understand how important troop funds are. Is there anyway to invite two other girls who are not in your troop, perhaps from another troop?

 

[chibichibirei]

I would be fuming too. what is the age difference between the girls in the troup and the girls not in the troup? Because If the girls are alot older or younger then it really shouldnt matter.

 

[barkley]

this is why alot of the groups (charitable) that i was involved with put in policies that required some financial involvement on the parent's part (sliding scale based on their income)-too many deserving kids lost out on great opportunities because someone else no-showed for stuff (they had no financial stake in it-did'nt matter to them).

the campership program that was administered through volunteer services at our office was given free slots at high dollar summer camps for disadvantaged youths. they had so many kids apply, few the could accept. but the last minute cancelation or no show rate was insane (and by then we could'nt get the paperwork together to let another kid go). so they implemented an administrative fee for anyone selected (maybe $30 per kid) to hold their spot-the change in attitude was huge, when the parents had a vested financial interest in their kid attending the kids attended (and there were no less applications-parents were able to "find" the fee despite the worst circumstances).

 

[Chim Chiminy]

The girls ages are 10, 9 and in my troop 8 and 6.

The older two I signed up as Juliettes. I told the mom that any money they earn from cookie sales will go into a seperate account solely to pay for their activities. And she still doesn't get it, won't take them around to sell cookies!
I feel like she is always waiting for a handout, but doesn't want to be obvious about it. Understand??
My assistant was there this morning and her take on it was that the comment was meant to spur me into buying tickets for the older two as well.
She has known this woman longer and says that is how she is.

Adding: I think part of why I am so ticked off is because I do a lot for these girls. Above and beyond, I guess. I just feel for them. They are truly in the worst of situations and it is thru no fault of their own.
So I guess I am feeling taken by their mom.
Problem is they live near me, I see them at the bus stop every day.
I bought out of my own pocket (used) uniforms for the girls so they wouldn't feel left out or different from the rest of the troop.
I always have a snack available for them on meeting nights, I drive them and they are always ravenously hungry when they get in the van. So I pass back a snack to hold them over until we have snacktime during our meeting.
They also get the snack leftovers, if there are any.
I give them my daughters outgrown clothes and shoes, gave their oldest sister a (used) down coat so she would be warm.
If my kids don't care for a particular snack we buy, I take what is left and hand it out at the bus stop to all the kids.
I lend them movies so they have some entertainment and books so they can read at home.

I am way too involved........................

 

[The Mystery Machine]

No good deed goes unpunished...I find myself saying that alot.

As a former leader, I commend you for making your girls learn about life, and participating in taking on the responsilbility of the loss.

I found that as the years passed with my girls they learned alot about responsibility and leadership. It was very valuable to them, more than the activities themselves, honestly.

Now I can't say how you should handle future dealings with the sponsered girls...but....I want to throw this out there...

Our council sponsered a whole troop. Is there a way you can get activities for these girls fiananced in some way by your council???
If they expect you to take on people that are "hardship" then there has to be help somewhere, perhaps??? Just a thought...I know it sounds crazy but you never just know until you ask.
Although you sound as if you have it together on that end.

I couldn't do it to be honest. You are one in a million.

 

[Chim Chiminy]

Thank you Mystery Machine.

Like so many other leaders, I take this role very seriously. And you are right, we want for them to learn personal responsability and how to lead.
Some of our parents think it is silly, but we stress every week a different part of the GS Law and how to apply those words to everyday life.
GS is not about earning badges, it is about learning and growing.

As far as council, they will help pay for some activities but not for others. So we, my co leader, assistant and I chat about it and make decisions based on how our troop is doing, how our account is doing.

 

[barkley]

when did scouting change so much? back when i was a scout we went to retirement homes, camped, maybe did a potluck party...now there are patches or badges affiliated with so many outings that charge.

i read so many posts about frustration over cookie sale starting dates and the impact it will have on a troops ability to fund ice skating trips, build a bear...what happened to badges and patches being related to life skills that were learned through very inexpensive or no cost activities?

i mean-there was an ice skating badge in the handbook back then-but we lived in california so the general feeling was that was something kids in other states pursued (never would have occured to our troop leaders to go to the ice skating rink and pay to earn the badge).

seems like the whole program has realy changed in this respect.

 

[Amirah95]

Scouting hasn't changed that much (from my experience), but we need money in order to get to where we need to go, whether it's a Senior Citizens home or Great Adventures. I also like to follow Council's rules and guidelines when doing field trips so that limits us on what we can do.

Transportation to get anywhere is the major problem my troop is having. Our campsite is located almost 1 1/2 hours away and there are no programs that help with paying for the girls to get there. We sell a lot of cookies and nuts, but we fall very short because all of the girls and some parents including us do not fit in a rental van...we need a small bus of some kind. We don't go anywhere and we tried public transportation and that was a very bad experience. Parents willing to split the bill with me and my two co-leaders...they will not do it. Supplies/badges are not cheap either. So when the OP said that she lost money, I got upset. I know how it feels.

We just wait for encampments every other year and we do activities in our meeting place. That's it.

 

[Christine]

when did scouting change so much? back when i was a scout we went to retirement homes, camped, maybe did a potluck party...now there are patches or badges affiliated with so many outings that charge.

i read so many posts about frustration over cookie sale starting dates and the impact it will have on a troops ability to fund ice skating trips, build a bear...what happened to badges and patches being related to life skills that were learned through very inexpensive or no cost activities?

i mean-there was an ice skating badge in the handbook back then-but we lived in california so the general feeling was that was something kids in other states pursued (never would have occured to our troop leaders to go to the ice skating rink and pay to earn the badge).

seems like the whole program has realy changed in this respect.

barkley,
I've got to agree with you on this one. It does seem to have changed. I was in GS for a few years (back in the 70s) and we never had any paid outings like shows and stuff. It was all very public service oriented or very hands on for the badges.

My own DD did not do scouts but my son did Webelos for a year and that was okay. They did a lot of "olympics" type stuff, camping activities, etc. There were scouting days at some of the Disney shows and stuff at the local arena, but his den never got involved with that.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

when did scouting change so much?
seems like the whole program has realy changed in this respect.

Welllll...I would say in the 90's. My oldest was a GS starting in 1996. She was a Daisy then.
Then I became a coleader the next year. Things were not too bad. Council was still friendly and while "SafetyWise" was in place, the Council did not force it down your throat to the point of taking the "fun" out of Girl Scouts.
When the troop disbanded in 2003...it was awful. It is all about the "money"....
You see...Girl Scouts no longer lets girls get "donations" like the Boy Scouts. Why? Because businesses need to have letterhead to "prove" their donations (rightly so...) so Council decided that in order to not jeapordize the "corporate donations" they do NOT allow you to get "letterhead" legally for donations.

So now...you have to rely on troop cookies as your main source of income. Of course there are times you can do fundraisers but they are far and few between (there are blackout dates that you are not allowed to fundraise for your troop).
And there are restrictions as to WHAT you can do.
As a leader you are lucky to get a year planned and things signed up and set in place with all of the "rules".

Sometimes you feel Council is your enemy as a troop leader. To be honest I burned out and so did my girls with all of the rules....It really pushes troops to end, I think.

Also I wanted to say as girls get older...cookies don't sell as well. It is really frustrating.

ETA...I fixed the year. Not good with dates.

 

[barkley]

yeah-my dd expressed an interest in being a brownie a few years back. she hooked up with a local troop and i'm thinking "buddie-burners, smores, cooking badges, candle making badges.." (stuff i remember from being a kid). she bailed after 6 months-nut sales, cookie sales, calendar sales, ice skating trip, bowling trip..the one campout was nothing educational-the mom's premade all the food and it was served on stryafoam dishes (i clearly remember that girl scouts participated in the first official "earth day"-i still have my button from it -and had a more environmental attitude.

i thought maybe we had just hooked up with the wrong troop-but i found out later their participation in sales and "activities" was the most scaled down in the counsel for our area (and they were viewed as an "old style troop" cuz they still did some craft projects and basic cooking/housekeeping lessons.

 

[Disney Doll]

I have no advice for you, but I just want to tell you how nice you are to do so much for these girls. Their mother may not be in her current situation through any fault of her own, but it also doesn't sound like she's doing much to get herself out of the situation she's in, nor does it sound like she's grateful for the kindness of folks, but rather "expects" the kindness.

That still leaves the girls, though, and they are even more victims of their situation than their mother. To be angry at the mother and decide to not support the girls activities anymore hurts only them, and this participation in GS may be the one bright light in their day. You really have no idea the impact you may be having on them. Conversely, it's not fair to have the mother flippantly decide yes, then no, which adversely affects your troop's budget.

To the immediate question, I would see if perhaps you know anyone who would be interested in going. Maybe even a couple of your girlfriends...they could be chaperones and might be willing to reimburse you for the tickets. If you lived near me, I'd be happy to go to an ice skating show and pay for the ticket too!

To the bigger question of the impact of your decision on those poor unfortunate children...I don't know what to tell you. It's a difficult circumstance.

 

[RitaZ.]

You've done a good thing for these girls, regardless of the mother's involvement. I don't know what I would do. If you approach the mom, she may get upset and forbid the girls from GS, which would be a real shame for them. Does the mom suffer from mental illness? Her behavior seems unpredictable.

My friend was a GS leader and she would vent to me on a regular basis. Good luck!

 

[FionaLovesShrek]

Have you contacted/ e-mailed the other parents and told them you had 2 extra tickets to see if anyone was interested in them? I know in our troop when something like that happens, one of the mothers can think of someone who is interested so that all the tickets get used and reimbursed? for

 

[Stitchfans]

I also would be fuming. That is not right. I feel sorry for her daughters though, cause I bet they were looking forward to going.

 

[agnes!]

As a former Junior Girl Scout Troop Leader....I *feel* your pain. (I was a co-leader and only took it on because I was afraid that Council would disband the troop if we didn't have a leadership team signed up before summer.)

It's hard to know what to do, but those two girls are enjoying themselves and learning a lot, I'm sure. I like the suggestion of in the future having the mother pay some kind of deposit (if that is at all possible), for any "fee" activities, even if it was $1. Other than that, I'm just glad it's not me who has to make a decision about how much these girls will be able to partcipate in outings that cost money. It's not fair to the other girls, too...the troop money is partly everybody's, this woman is being irresponsible because she has no vested interest.

Invite someone else if possible, send out an e-mail to other Troop leaders in your Council...surely there's somebody who can go & pay you for it. If you can't find a Girl Scout who wants to go, I'd at least ask someone else...at least *someone* will be enjoying themselves(even if your troop doesn't get re-imbursed).

About how some parents react to things...I once had a mother start to go off on me at our church that we both attended. We had scheduled our end of year outing for a day that her two girls could not go - we tried for a date that the most girls from the troop could go plus this date was what worked out for the leaders and the moms who were driving.
I stopped her short and proceeded to inform her how many hours every day, every week I was putting into Scouting. People who haven't been leaders truly do not understand what a committment being a Troop Leader is. Plus the time for me getting all the training/certifications - Intro to Scouting, Junior Leaders, First Aid, CPR, When Help is Delayed (I was a volunteer First Aider last summer at a Camp for girls who otherwise could not go to camp)...During that whole episode I kept on thinking that "No good deed goes unpunished."

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I'm sure you're a great Leader and a good mom. Your girls are lucky to have you.
agnes!

 

[Rock'n Robin]

I just have a warning about taking these poor girls out to sell cookies. I'm cookie mom for our troop this year. All the girls had to turn in permission slips and part of it is that the parents are responsible for any funds not collected. Can you imagine the spot you will be in if they sell cookies and she doesn't let them deliver them, or won't pick them up, or worse keeps them and doesn't pay? The council might have to actually take legal action against her. I would think long and hard about taking them out. I feel for their situation, but you have to do some butt covering in this case.
Robin M.

 

[Chim Chiminy]

I just have a warning about taking these poor girls out to sell cookies. I'm cookie mom for our troop this year. All the girls had to turn in permission slips and part of it is that the parents are responsible for any funds not collected. Can you imagine the spot you will be in if they sell cookies and she doesn't let them deliver them, or won't pick them up, or worse keeps them and doesn't pay? The council might have to actually take legal action against her. I would think long and hard about taking them out. I feel for their situation, but you have to do some butt covering in this case.
Robin M.

Ooh, thanks Rock'n Robin. I didn't even think of this scenario. Gives me something to think about.

To everyone else who has offered encouragement thank you as well!

I don't know if Scouting has changed a lot, I honestly don't remember much about my own days as a Girl Scout.............well, I do remember snacktime!

But we do a lot of the things you all are talking about with our troop, and I know many of the troops do so as well. Currently we are working on Manners as well as a big project to celebrate Thinking Day. My troop has made clay pots, studied the country of Greece, learned how to say hello in several different languages. They really work hard.
The Disney on Ice show is only the second troop outing we will have since October. The other outing? We spent an afternoon visiting with residents of the local Senior Center, where the troop passed out handmade Christmas cards, sang carols and passed out cookies. It was wonderful and both the residents and the troop had a blast together. We received several Thank You cards and are eager to go back and plant flowers this spring.
We do a lot of low to no cost activities with our troop, it is not all about badges and patches (which are expensive!).

With regards to the fundraising, what we are told is that we have to participate in cookie sales regardless. If we want to do other fundraisers, such as yard sales, craft sales etc then we have to participate in the magazine sales AND cookie sales. That was a new directive for this year.

Safetywise can be a pain, but I figured it was GS's answer to lawsuit hungry America. Cover your butt, so to speak.

I have no plans to stop being there for these girls. I just have to rethink my "strategy" when talking to their mom.
This morning I spoke to her, just explaining that the tickets were already bought and that I understand about wanting to be fair to all of the girls, but we had planned this outing as a troop event. There will be other events that they can all attend together such as Thinking Day.
She thought about it for a few seconds then said okay, they could go.
So Yay! They will be thrilled.

If any troop leaders are looking for low or no cost activities/field trips check out fieldtripfactory. Do a search, I didn't want to post a link.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I just have a warning about taking these poor girls out to sell cookies. I'm cookie mom for our troop this year. All the girls had to turn in permission slips and part of it is that the parents are responsible for any funds not collected. Can you imagine the spot you will be in if they sell cookies and she doesn't let them deliver them, or won't pick them up, or worse keeps them and doesn't pay? The council might have to actually take legal action against her. I would think long and hard about taking them out. I feel for their situation, but you have to do some butt covering in this case.
Robin M.

I am also a cookie mom this year. I wouldn't let these girls sell cookies either or come up with a plan. That is a disaster waiting to happen. They don't HAVE TO sell cookies if you know they are not reliable. I would challenge council on that if I had to.

You know who suffers when you can't pay? Your troop. It is better for your troop to cover the funds, (don't care what council says), than to have your troop suffer. (In some cases)
One leader I know who got burned on cookies turned in all the deliquent BS and then she got burned. They withheld money, prizes, whatever till the next year...don't know what the policy is now, however.

So BEFORE you do a deliquent find out the consquences of your troop first (if that ever happens, fyi).
When I had a "Bad parent" the co leader and I went to her house and took the cookies back to sell them. She had only turned in some of the money.