flat panel tv

[madcoco]

The Flat Panels in the AKV models were LG. Don't know if this was for display only or if LG will be the "official" supplier of Flatscreens. What brand does the renovated PopC Suites have?

 

[pilferk]

I thought we were getting off-topic, but then I realized that we're talking about watching television in our DVC villas... we're remarkable right on topic!!! Someone before mentioned the armoires, where the televisions are stored today. That may give the advantage to rear projection technologies, including DLP, since you get the same or better quality as flat screen technologies, including LCD flat screen or plasma, for a lot less money. In the end, I'd put my money on a technology we haven't mentioned yet: "LCD rear projection." These sets look just like DLP sets (they're not flat screens). They're a little more expensive than DLP, at about the same picture quality level, but a still a lot less expensive than LCD flat screen or plasma. And they're robust -- in for the long haul -- which is really important especially for DVC.

Just a quick comment on the issue with DLP's: Bulb replacement...at about 200 bucks a pop + needing a technician/maintenance/facilities person to do the change...is not something I would see Disney wanting to get involved with.

I think they'll stick with LCD, for now. Relatively cheap at the sizes they need, good reliability, and plentiful availability.

OH, and that pic of the LG seems to indicate the sets ARE HDTV's...even if they're not gettting an HD signal. Wonder if they've got scalers in them, and what they're using, if they do.

 

[Boston5602]

Just a quick comment on the issue with DLP's: Bulb replacement...at about 200 bucks a pop + needing a technician/maintenance/facilities person to do the change...is not something I would see Disney wanting to get involved with.

I think they'll stick with LCD, for now. Relatively cheap at the sizes they need, good reliability, and plentiful availability.

OH, and that pic of the LG seems to indicate the sets ARE HDTV's...even if they're not gettting an HD signal. Wonder if they've got scalers in them, and what they're using, if they do.

The TV's at the boardwalk pool area were HD tv sets just no HD signal !

 

[bicker]

The other end of it is what channels that they carry are in HD today? I don't think the Disney Channel is an HD channel. I'm not sure why you'd want to see the top-7 park attractions in HD. Pretty much the only channels I see that may have HD versions are the commercial stations (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, Tuner.)

That too will change. Lifetime will be HD someday soon. ESPN has several HD channels now. The Weather Channel has HD coming this year.

 

[bicker]

Just a quick comment on the issue with DLP's: Bulb replacement...at about 200 bucks a pop + needing a technician/maintenance/facilities person to do the change...is not something I would see Disney wanting to get involved with.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The replacement bulb on my DLP is $180, and I replace it myself. I haven't needed to do so yet (I've had it a year, and the bulb should last at least another year or two, according to other folks' experiences), but I have the spare bulb and the instructions, and it sounds simple. Most of the folks I've chatted with about it confirm it is no problem -- fixing a broken door-lock is much more difficult.

 

[dee519]

Ya know in the beginning BWV studios had coffee tables. Then they were gone . . . a couple of times I asked for one and they brought me one. I don't understand why they got rid of them - the other studios (minus OKW) all have some kind of coffee table . . . when you sit on the couch in the morning where do you put your coffee?????

 

[bicker]

I suspect that the coffee tables got in the way of the sofa opening up into a bed. I feel the rooms have too much furniture that is too big. That extra armchair is terrible: It blocks the door between the living room and the attached studio (in 2BR lock-offs). The dining table itself is shoved up against the wall -- there's no room to actually pull it out so that a family could sit around it and have a meal while actually being able to see each other; some always have to sit at the breakfast bar, keeping an eye on the refrigerator.

 

[JustSayin]

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The replacement bulb on my DLP is $180, and I replace it myself. I haven't needed to do so yet (I've had it a year, and the bulb should last at least another year or two, according to other folks' experiences), but I have the spare bulb and the instructions, and it sounds simple. Most of the folks I've chatted with about it confirm it is no problem -- fixing a broken door-lock is much more difficult.

The problem is that Disney can't just have the housekeeper change the DLP bulb, and they certainly can't have owners do it. They have to pay someone who is qualified to do it. Most likely they would want it to be someone who they could defend as legally being qualified. Also bulb life might not be the same in a resort TV as in a TV in your home.

I can easily see Disney avoiding any kind of projection TV due to the bulb issue, not to mention the unecessary size (and cost).

 

[bicker]

Well, I would expect that the same folks who fix things would fix this. They have these folks replacing light bulbs now -- not the housekeepers. As infrequently as DLP bulbs would need to be replaced, it wouldn't be a big deal.

I suspect bulbs will probably last longer in hotel rooms than at home, since I believe the average person doesn't watch as much television on vacation as they watch at home.

Cost is really the issue: DLP projection is the lowest cost HD technology for a given size and quality level. LCD projection is the next lowest cost (again for a given size and quality level), and really will be the winner in the long-run. Flat screen technology is the highest cost HD technology.

 

[pilferk]

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The replacement bulb on my DLP is $180, and I replace it myself. I haven't needed to do so yet (I've had it a year, and the bulb should last at least another year or two, according to other folks' experiences), but I have the spare bulb and the instructions, and it sounds simple. Most of the folks I've chatted with about it confirm it is no problem -- fixing a broken door-lock is much more difficult.

Yes, and $180 is "around $200". Bulb price will also depend on the brand of TV you buy....

Is it easy to change? Sure, for the home consumer.

You think Disney is going to allow a hotel guest to change a TV bulb? Of course not.

That's my point.

Implementing any rear projection TV, in the resorts, while cheaper in the short term, might not be in the long run...considering both the cost of the consumables and the cost of the resources to replace them. Think of the sheer NUMBER of TV's that could fail and the fact you can't PREDICT when they'll fail. You'd need to keep replacement bulb inventory on hand and commit dedicated resources to addressing bulb replacement quickly (or guests will be ticked off) OR you'd need to plan on regular bulb replacement WELL inside the expected bulb lifespan (and even then there'd be some outliers that would fail).

I'm not saying DLP tech isn't good tech, just that rear projection tech, so long as it's based on a consumable, isn't the best tech to implement in a resort setting. It's not worth, IMHO, the cost difference between LCD, especially at the display size Disney is looking at.

I suppose they could use one of the new Mits Laser or Samsung LED DLP's...but then you lose the price differentiation between plasma and standard LCD.

 

[pilferk]

Well, I would expect that the same folks who fix things would fix this. They have these folks replacing light bulbs now -- not the housekeepers. As infrequently as DLP bulbs would need to be replaced, it wouldn't be a big deal.

I suspect bulbs will probably last longer in hotel rooms than at home, since I believe the average person doesn't watch as much television on vacation as they watch at home.

Cost is really the issue: DLP projection is the lowest cost HD technology for a given size and quality level. LCD projection is the next lowest cost (again for a given size and quality level), and really will be the winner in the long-run. Flat screen technology is the highest cost HD technology.

Changing a DLP bulb is easy (I've done it), but not as easy as changing a lightbulb in a lamp. I'm also not sure what having technicians, who are NOT certified, change the bulb on a DLP set does to the manufacturer's warrenty. I know with Samsung, when we called about bulb replacement 11 months after purchase (so within warrenty) they told us they had to send out a tech, or we'd void the (short time remaining on) warrenty. I didn't investigate to find out if that was so, because they were footing the bill so I didn't really care....but that's what they said.

It's true, the average resort guest probably does NOT watch as much TV on vacation as they watch at home. But neither are they likely to be as "nice" to the TV as a home DLP consumer is (who knows to allow proper cool down before flipping the TV on again, knows it takes seconds for the picture to come up as the bulb "warms up" and a whole host of other factors). It wouldn't surprise me to find that the shorter duration of operation was offset by being operated in a "harsher" manner.

You're right, I think cost is the issue. A 42 inch LCD runs, retail, about 1599 (that's the LG they use). A 42 inch DLP runs about 1000, retail. You offset the upfront cost savings in about 3 bulb changes....approximately 6 years or so, assuming a change every 2 years.

And for DVC owners, of course, that would mean absorbing the cost of the consumables into MF.

 

[jco_direwolf]

The Weather Channel has HD coming this year.

Oh excellent, I really need to see reports being blown around by the hurricane in HD.

This and CNN/CNNHN where stations I thought would be the LAST to offer HD content.

johno

 

[bicker]

Changing a DLP bulb is easy (I've done it), but not as easy as changing a lightbulb in a lamp.

True, but easier than fixing a door lock!

I'm also not sure what having technicians, who are NOT certified, change the bulb on a DLP set does to the manufacturer's warrenty.

Nothing at all. It is explicitly a user-serviceable part.

I know with Samsung, when we called about bulb replacement 11 months after purchase (so within warrenty) they told us they had to send out a tech, or we'd void the (short time remaining on) warrenty.

Only if it was a bulb replacement warranty, and in that case it only would void the bulb replacement rider.

It's true, the average resort guest probably does NOT watch as much TV on vacation as they watch at home. But neither are they likely to be as "nice" to the TV as a home DLP consumer is (who knows to allow proper cool down before flipping the TV on again, knows it takes seconds for the picture to come up as the bulb "warms up" and a whole host of other factors).

That's a good point, and would apply to DLP. I'm not sure it applies to LCD projection.

You're right, I think cost is the issue. A 42 inch LCD runs, retail, about 1599 (that's the LG they use). A 42 inch DLP runs about 1000, retail. You offset the upfront cost savings in about 3 bulb changes....approximately 6 years or so, assuming a change every 2 years.

At 42" the break-even point is about six years. At 50" the break-even point is about eight years. At 60" the break-even point is about nine years. That's one of the most attractive aspects of projection HDTV: Projection television prices go up closer to linearly, while flat screen television prices go up closer to exponentially, as screen sizes get larger.

 

[NMW]

My guess is they will pull replace the armoires with ones more like what we see in DAKV. They give the room the appearance/feel of more space. I think it would be a HUGE gain in the smaller rooms like PopC and AllStar*.




It's the vibe I get from what I've read mostly in the IEEE Spectrum. I can't think of any place I've read it. But everyone involved seems to be counting on the fact that a lot of consumers have cable, which as we said aren't affected. And TV set attrition, in my house we just bought a new HD LCD TV. But we have no plans to upgrade our cable, for the time being we are waiting on Apple TV and using an HD DVD player, for most of our HD programing.



Yep I agree with this. And they will switch, but I don't expect to see it happen in the next 2-5 years. I'm sure as they replace infrastructure today it's HD ready, I'm sure for the last 2-5 years they have been doing that.

The other end of it is what channels that they carry are in HD today? I don't think the Disney Channel is an HD channel. I'm not sure why you'd want to see the top-7 park attractions in HD. Pretty much the only channels I see that may have HD versions are the commercial stations (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, Tuner.)

Allears TV channel listings

johno

That's not true for us -the part about it being only commercial stations. We have Directv HD DVR (hi-def digital video recorder)boxes on our 2 LCD TV's and the regular digital boxes on the remaining 4 TV's in our house.

On our HD DVR boxes we get lots of HD channels besides ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS. In fact I watched "Charmed" on TNT HD this morning while walking on the treadmill. We have Discover channel HD, national georgraphic HD, HD movie net, HBO HD, Showtime HD, HD net, 2 ESPN HD channels, Universal HD, and PPV HD channels. Also my husband buys the NFL package every year and they play lots of games in HD. The last bill insert I got from Directv let us know that new HD channels are coming really soon, there were several. I can't remember them all, I think Lifetime was one of them. They are launching new satellites or something.

By the way Bicker, we have 2 new Samsung LCD Tv's. They are awesome, especially with the HD channels, but even just the regular digital ones look really good. My husband only ever bought Sony TV's but fell in love with Samsung in the store.

 

[Snowgod]

I doubt that any resort will put rear projection in their rooms in the future as they are to big. DLP has issues with a small portion of the population due to the flicker rate of the color wheel (yes even the newer sets with more color wheel segments). Plasma puts out too much heat for a Florida resort. LCDs look better in bright light and use less energy that most others. LCoS is the current state of the art but it is too expensive and still requires bulb changes and other maintenance.

How about projectors? Paint the wall with some Screen Goo and and you have instant big screen with a small projector.

 

[jco_direwolf]

That's not true for us -the part about it being only commercial stations.

I think you miss understood my point. I agree there are a number of HD channels out there.

But looking at the channels Disney carries in the resorts. They may carry 60ish channels, but some of them are foreign language channels (8 by my count), and some have the CC turned on (11) and the park channels (7). When you get down to it. Disney doesn't carry a lot of channels and the ones they do carry only a few have HD counter parts. This will change over the next few years. But I don't see there being any great push even once the channels change to "fix" their cable system, quite the contrary with as many TVs as Disney owns I see a slow and easy plan.

I'm sorta shocked that TWC is doing an HD channel so soon (2nd 1/2 of 2007.) You don't get Showtime, or HBO at the resorts. ESPN Classics doesn't need to be HD anytime soon, since most of the games they show where recorded in SD anyway. I don't see any reason for CNNHN to push into HD (So you can see even more grainy camera-phone images of Brittney?) As far as I know the resorts don't carry Sunday Ticket. Radio Disney Channel only video part is the slides they generate for it.

Finally as someone pointed out, if you are in your room watching TV you aren't out spending money in the parks. I do like the idea of HD TV in the rooms though since I shoot all my video tape in HD now, sometimes we like to watch the raw footage when we get back to the room.

johno

 

[Cricket2]

I do like the idea of HD TV in the rooms though since I shoot all my video tape in HD now, sometimes we like to watch the raw footage when we get back to the room.

Assuming you have access to a set of inputs. Not looking good from that photo though.

 

[jco_direwolf]

Assuming you have access to a set of inputs. Not looking good from that photo though.

I'm guessing there are some on the side/bottom. Both of my HD TVs have them but they are sorta "tucked away" where you can't really see them.

johno

 

[Inkmahm]

By the way Bicker, we have 2 new Samsung LCD Tv's. They are awesome, especially with the HD channels, but even just the regular digital ones look really good. My husband only ever bought Sony TV's but fell in love with Samsung in the store.

We bought our 40 " Samsung LCD HDTV back in September 2005 (that was the biggest LCD screen they had then) and still love it- no problems with it at all. I'd buy another Samsung in a heart beat. We will, too, if my DH ever gets the basement cleaned up enough that we could put a treadmill down there!

 

[Cricket2]

I'm guessing there are some on the side/bottom. Both of my HD TVs have them but they are sorta "tucked away" where you can't really see them.

johno

Oh, I'm not doubting if it will have them or not, just the ease of access to them. If they are recess mounted and have an escutcheon framing them, the sides and back may be inaccessible.