Father's rights ( no custody agreement)

[Hannathy]

Telling him just before it happens, when he's paid school fees for a school she won't be attending certainly seems sneaking out to me. If they just found out and told him right away that'd be one thing but doesn't sound like it.

I'm saying he won't be blowing his money because it sounds from the circumstance like he can at least stop them in the short term and he can certainly then get orders in place to solidify his rights.

If they are doing this in a shady way, there's a good chance he won't end up paying anything - and regardless, if they're the ones want to move and are granted permission, it's very common that an order will be placed forcing them to pay for all transport costs for her and possibly him for visitation. I think that's a lot of help, personally.

I agree, at the very least make them pay to send her back and forth to see him. That could be a lot of money over 4 years.

I also don't buy the teens don't want to be around their parents. She is a very young high schooler, not 18 and off on her own. Kids that age spend a lot of time with family.

It was very nasty of the Mom to do it this way and he needs to get to court and get some things in place.

 

[Jennasis]

Disappointing I am sure. but if DD wants to go, Dad should let her go...and plan to visit or fly her home on breaks.

 

[sookie]

He is Bi-polar and hyper (ADD) if he doesnt take his meds.
The DD is loving the move.
I think it was very wrong not to tell him until the last minute
it was all
"hashed out" on Facebook last nite=not pretty.

If she wants to go - good luck with that. She is at the age where she can choose.
It is really crappy this is happening, but the best he can hope for is that they will work with him to have some scheduled holiday and summer visitation.

Also, courts are understanding that people have to move for work. As long as a reasonable holiday and summer schedule is presented they will approve a cross country move.

A judge won't "order them back" if there wasn't a custody agreement in place before. Won't happen. How much notice are they giving? If it is around 30 days, often that can be standard unless the parties agree to something else.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Telling him just before it happens, when he's paid school fees for a school she won't be attending certainly seems sneaking out to me. If they just found out and told him right away that'd be one thing but doesn't sound like it.

I'm saying he won't be blowing his money because it sounds from the circumstance like he can at least stop them in the short term and he can certainly then get orders in place to solidify his rights.

If they are doing this in a shady way, there's a good chance he won't end up paying anything - and regardless, if they're the ones want to move and are granted permission, it's very common that an order will be placed forcing them to pay for all transport costs for her and possibly him for visitation. I think that's a lot of help, personally.

Your no cost legal scenario is a pipe dream. You seem to think the court is going to do "what's right". That doesn't always happen. He has no agreement now so she's not breaking any rules.

 

[cornflake]

Your no cost legal scenario is a pipe dream. You seem to think the court is going to do "what's right". That doesn't always happen. He has no agreement now so she's not breaking any rules.

Why is it a pipe dream? No, they don't always do what's right, but they do often. Especially family courts try hard.

No, she's not breaking any rules. Hence he should go get an injunction and get rules in place.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Why is it a pipe dream? No, they don't always do what's right, but they do often. Especially family courts try hard.

No, she's not breaking any rules. Hence he should go get an injunction and get rules in place.

Okay, fine, what makes you think the wife would have to pay all his court fees for that? He's never had an agreement, so what , exactly would she be paying his fees for? The fun of it?

Pipe dream, meaning you would like it to happen, but there's no reason in the world why it should.

 

[ohiomom28]

He is lucky that things went so well while she was growing up and didn't need a custody agreement. He still should've gotten one because like everyone else has said, he has no rights. Paying child support doesn't give you rights to your child.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[cornflake]

Okay, fine, what makes you think the wife would have to pay all his court fees for that? He's never had an agreement, so what , exactly would she be paying his fees for? The fun of it?

Pipe dream, meaning you would like it to happen, but there's no reason in the world why it should.

I know what it means I meant why do you think it's a pipe dream, hence 'why is it a...'

I think it's certainly possible because she's forcing him to take the exigent legal action. They've been working this out for 14 years or whatever and her theoretical attempting to sneak out of town forces him into court for an injunction and codification and a fight, that can easily be placed on her.

 

[sasywtch]

It's not sneaking out of town if he knows about it, and he doesn't have any custody agreement, so she's not breaking any orders.

I'll say it again, he's gonna have to think long and hard if he wants to spend a lot of money on it, they will still move away and the daughter will still go with them if that's what she wants. Once they are older, the judge will take her wishes into consideration. If he's on mediciation and has a history of not taking it, that only will work against him.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it isn't going to break his heart, I'm saying that his being broke from throwing his money away uselessly isn't going to help him.

I am so amazed at some of these responses. Yeah, let the kid go. They are dispensable. You don't need to see them every weekend. ?????

If he is on the birth certificate, she will have some explaining to do with the judge whether they have a court order or not. Courts do not look favorably on parents who move their kids. I am one that moved my kids (but brought them back). We had to go to court. My ex was not paying support at the time and it didn't matter. They look more on the parental relationship. I will also say, the very first question the new school asked me was, where was my court order allowing the child to come into a new state. If this new school does not ask this, then the mother is probably not being truthful who the real father is. He has rights to know the school, to get paperwork/grades from the school etc.

Sorry to say, but jobs do not trump all when it comes to family court. The best interest of the child trumps the courts. If your nephew does not have the funds, perhaps you have a legal aid or we have a law college that works for low income. If he is on the birth certificate and she has nothing in writing allowing the move out of state, the father can contact the school and the school has the authority to notify the authorities. If he's not on the birth certificate, extremely harder and would require paternity testing. The other option is for him to file for visitation and to make sure she has to pay for all travel expenses.

Just read a few more posts while I was writing: Whether someone has a custody arrangement or paying child support, if someone is listed on the birth certificate, the other parent must get permission from the courts (if the non moving parent contests it). I'm also baffled that a 14 year old should know what's appropriate when making a big move like this. Like I said, I would be extremely surprised if the new school does not ask for paperwork. Been there, done that.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

Agree with Sasywtch. Family court is interested in parental relationship and it does not matter if they have a standing custody order. Dad won't block the move, but the court can (and has) block the child from moving. He should go to local family court on Monday and get assistance there.

 

[Rylee]

Was paternity ever established?
Is he on her birth certificate?

• To get a custody or visitation order from Family Court, you have to file a petition.
  
• A custody petition or complaint should be filed in the county where the child has resided for the last six (6) months.
  
• You do NOT need an attorney to petition for custody or visitation in FAMILY COURT but it is recommended that you have a family court attorney.
  
• In Family Court, it does not cost money to start the case.
  
• In Supreme Court, it costs money to start a case.
• To get a custody or visitation order from Supreme Court, you have to file a complaint (instead of a petition).

The above is true in New York state, not sure if it varies from state to state.

Your nephew should contact an attorney ASAP. If he can not get an appointment right away, he should go directly to the family court in the county where his daughter lives and file a petition for visitation. He can do this himself, to get the ball rolling, and still choose to bring in an attorney when the court dates comes up.

 

[Colleen27]

The girl is in high school and wants to move? He needs to let her. He should still take the issue to court to get a legal visitation agreement in place, and he could probably even get a judge to order the mother to cover all travel costs because she's the one moving.

It is a good idea to have his rights formally established for future visits and such but if he fights a move that the teen is excited about and in the process causes all sorts of family conflict, odds are he's going to come off as the bad guy in the teen's eyes and then where will he be? With closer proximity to a child that doesn't want him around? Better to have great visits and frequent calls/texts/skype chats. This isn't a 5yo who doesn't know her own mind and can't practically maintain the parent-child relationship without face-to-face contact; she's a teenager and he needs to understand that her opinions will matter to the court at this age and should matter to him as well.

 

[cornflake]

The birth certificate thing is legally meaningless. It has no bearing on anything whether one is listed on the bc or not. You can put whatever want on there - want to list Han Solo as your child's father, no one is going to stop you, doesn't mean Harrison Ford is on the hook for child support.

As to filing a petition for visitation on his own, yeah but that won't necessarily do anything about the immediate circumstance. A lawyer can likely file to get an order to block the move until they can work out the rest. He really needs a lawyer - at least to consult with before he does anything.

 

[Planogirl]

Maybe I missed it but does the stepfather need the job? Is he unemployed? I think that that makes a big difference.

The opinions of teens are taken into account by the courts. They don't get to decide but what they want does come into play.

 

[sookie]

I am so amazed at some of these responses. Yeah, let the kid go. They are dispensable. You don't need to see them every weekend. ?????

If he is on the birth certificate, she will have some explaining to do with the judge whether they have a court order or not. Courts do not look favorably on parents who move their kids. I am one that moved my kids (but brought them back). We had to go to court. My ex was not paying support at the time and it didn't matter. They look more on the parental relationship. I will also say, the very first question the new school asked me was, where was my court order allowing the child to come into a new state. If this new school does not ask this, then the mother is probably not being truthful who the real father is. He has rights to know the school, to get paperwork/grades from the school etc.

Sorry to say, but jobs do not trump all when it comes to family court. The best interest of the child trumps the courts. If your nephew does not have the funds, perhaps you have a legal aid or we have a law college that works for low income. If he is on the birth certificate and she has nothing in writing allowing the move out of state, the father can contact the school and the school has the authority to notify the authorities. If he's not on the birth certificate, extremely harder and would require paternity testing. The other option is for him to file for visitation and to make sure she has to pay for all travel expenses.

Just read a few more posts while I was writing: Whether someone has a custody arrangement or paying child support, if someone is listed on the birth certificate, the other parent must get permission from the courts (if the non moving parent contests it). I'm also baffled that a 14 year old should know what's appropriate when making a big move like this. Like I said, I would be extremely surprised if the new school does not ask for paperwork. Been there, done that.

And a lot of judges are going to wonder what the heck has changed. He hasn't cared enough to get an agreement for 14 years, why start now? I have never had a school ask for any paperwork. I have a gov job and a custody agreement. No school has asked to see it and we have been in 4 school districts in 4 years. Thank god that crap has stop and we have been able to stabilize.

In my agreement I have 30 days to give my ex a heads up. I gave him 6 months with the first move, when we moved out of town 5 hours away. After that we gave him an average of 2 months lead (when we found out - we have to be mobile). Anyway, every place is different. But you have to know that once you leave state to state its all up in the air as well. And judges don't give a crap - they aren't there to play games with you. They want you to have your stuff worked out before you come before them, and lawyers want your money.

This guy has a lot going against him. His need for major psych drugs is one, another is that he hasn't bothered with a formal agreement before now is another. It is in the mothers best interest that he hasn't had one. She has free reign to do as she desires. Including move. She is within her rights to pick up and leave at this point, and no, they won't make her come back. He has no custodial rights at this point. If what you are proposing is the case, then any Joe, Dick, or Harry could claim that they were the father of any kid on the street, and then demand that the court bring back any child to the state where they reside. Not going to happen.

Another thing is that the kid in question wants to go with her mom and stepdad. With whom she has always primarily resided. There is no magic age, but a teenager is old enough to verbalize her wishes and have them considered by a family court judge. Sometimes they will even appoint a lawyer or another personal representative to represent the child and have them verbalize the wishes of the child in a case (they did that for me, in my adoption, when I was a teen). Sometimes they will just have the judge speak to the kid and then he or she will get a feel for what the kid wants. Either way - that will play into the case at age 14.
I don't know what weird world you live in, but unless the OP lives there too, there is NO WAY the judge will order the child to come back to the father's hometown after she leaves, especially if there is no paperwork in place before that child goes to NY. Completely unenforceable.

 

[Rylee]

The birth certificate thing is legally meaningless. It has no bearing on anything whether one is listed on the bc or not. You can put whatever want on there - want to list Han Solo as your child's father, no one is going to stop you, doesn't mean Harrison Ford is on the hook for child support.

As to filing a petition for visitation on his own, yeah but that won't necessarily do anything about the immediate circumstance. A lawyer can likely file to get an order to block the move until they can work out the rest. He really needs a lawyer - at least to consult with before he does anything.

Here, unmarried parents can have the birth father voluntarily acknowledge paternity in two ways...

He can be present at the birth of your child and sign a Declaration of Paternity. (Sometimes this paperwork is called an Acknowledgment of Paternity.) This documentation is also necessary in order to have the father's name placed on the child's birth certificate.

If he is not present at the birth, he can complete an affidavit of paternity any time between the birth of the child up until the child turns 18. If this document is not completed before the birth certificate is issued, and you want the father's name listed on the birth certificate, you can apply to have the birth certificate altered to add the father's name at a later date.

An unmarried woman can not just add any old name to the birth certificate.

It IS important that he is established as the child's legal birth father to protect the rights of all involved, for many reasons, but pertaining to what we're addressing here...

A judge isn't going to give "an order to block the move" just because some guy hires a lawyer to do so.

If time is important in this case, it will be quicker if he is the child's legal father.



WHO CAN GET CUSTODY THROUGH THE COURTS?
A child’s parent, whether married or unmarried. Adoptive parents are treated the same way as biological parents under the law, in both same-sex and heterosexual relationships.
A non-parent, like a grandparent, stepparent, brother or sister, other relative, or gay or lesbian partner. BUT, unless there’s some extraordinary circumstance, a parent has a better right to custody and to decide matters about who can visit the child.
WHO CAN GET VISITATION THROUGH THE COURTS?
A child’s parent, whether married or unmarried. Adoptive parents are treated the same way as biological parents under the law, in both same-sex and heterosexual relationships.
A grandparent.
A sister or brother, a stepsister or stepbrother, or other proper person.
At this time in New York, other non-parents, like stepparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and former gay and lesbian partners usually cannot get visitation. But this area of the law is changing. Someday such people may be able to get visitation.http://www.inmotiononline.org/assets/pdfs/TheBasicsSeries_English/Custody_and_Visitation_in_NYS.pdf

 

[VagueFury]

Here, unmarried parents can have the birth father voluntarily acknowledge paternity in two ways...

He can be present at the birth of your child and sign a Declaration of Paternity. (Sometimes this paperwork is called an Acknowledgment of Paternity.) This documentation is also necessary in order to have the father's name placed on the child's birth certificate.

If he is not present at the birth, he can complete an affidavit of paternity any time between the birth of the child up until the child turns 18. If this document is not completed before the birth certificate is issued, and you want the father's name listed on the birth certificate, you can apply to have the birth certificate altered to add the father's name at a later date.

An unmarried woman can not just add any old name to the birth certificate.

It IS important that he is established as the child's legal birth father to protect the rights of all involved, for many reasons, but pertaining to what we're addressing here...

A judge isn't going to give "an order to block the move" just because some guy hires a lawyer to do so.

If time is important in this case, it will be quicker if he is the child's legal father.



WHO CAN GET CUSTODY THROUGH THE COURTS?
A child’s parent, whether married or unmarried. Adoptive parents are treated the same way as biological parents under the law, in both same-sex and heterosexual relationships.
A non-parent, like a grandparent, stepparent, brother or sister, other relative, or gay or lesbian partner. BUT, unless there’s some extraordinary circumstance, a parent has a better right to custody and to decide matters about who can visit the child.
WHO CAN GET VISITATION THROUGH THE COURTS?
A child’s parent, whether married or unmarried. Adoptive parents are treated the same way as biological parents under the law, in both same-sex and heterosexual relationships.
A grandparent.
A sister or brother, a stepsister or stepbrother, or other proper person.
At this time in New York, other non-parents, like stepparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and former gay and lesbian partners usually cannot get visitation. But this area of the law is changing. Someday such people may be able to get visitation.http://www.inmotiononline.org/assets/pdfs/TheBasicsSeries_English/Custody_and_Visitation_in_NYS.pdf

Thanks for this post. I was surprised anyone would say you could put any man down as the father. Maybe a long time ago, but not these days. When my daughter was born my husband (then just my boyfriend) had to come in and sign the paper swearing he was the father. That was 13 years ago. I assumed that was the law nation wide. Are there states where it's different?

 

[Coconut36]

And a lot of judges are going to wonder what the heck has changed. He hasn't cared enough to get an agreement for 14 years, why start now?

I would think it is quite clear what has changed now..now the mother is moving the child out of state thus changing any agreements they had in place regarding visitation (their personal agreement that clearly worked just fine for 14 years). Prior to an out of state move there was no need for legal intervention. Now there is and he needs legal intervention to secure his parental rights.

In my state it doesn't matter who is listed on the birth certificate and even if paternity is established but the couple was not married the father has NO legal rights unless established by a mediator/court or some sort of official documented agreement between both parties. My friend and his ex shared a home, shared finances, raised the child together for almost 6 years. He is listed on the birth certificate and so on. Yet when it ended he learned he had no legal rights and an agreement had to be put in place to allow him visitation, decisions regarding education/medical..etc. From what I can gather in my state if the woman is unmarried at the birth and for so many months prior then a father can't be listed unless both parties sign a legal affidavit establishing paternity (if I understood it all correctly..I think I am remember what the friend told me) but even with that it does not grant the father any special rights/custody..etc.

 

[Rylee]

Thanks for this post. I was surprised anyone would say you could put any man down as the father. Maybe a long time ago, but not these days. When my daughter was born my husband (then just my boyfriend) had to come in and sign the paper swearing he was the father. That was 13 years ago. I assumed that was the law nation wide. Are there states where it's different?

I don't know if it's different in other states, as I've said, I'm in NY. Perhaps, as you mentioned, it was allowed years ago but the idea seems crazy. Sure would be a lot of angry men out there, (rightfully so) and probably a lot of them would be angry men with $$$.

We went through this with DD30 last year. She and her fiance had been engaged for 7 months when they found out they were expecting. They were both thrilled about the baby. I was in the hospital room while they were filling out the birth certificate forms, and the baby's Dad became very upset when the nurse explained they couldn't just fill him in as the father, since they were not married. He quickly calmed down when she explained all they needed to do was fill out another form, signed by both, and his name would be on the birth certificate.

As for knowing about petitioning the court on your own... A few years ago, DH's sister left her husband, and sought help through a domestic violence advocacy group, and they directed her to seek custody by filing a petition at the family court immediately so her husband couldn't take off with the kids. (She claimed he was verbally abusive but got back together with him after about 6 weeks. They are still together and celebrated their 26th anniversary this year. )

 

[Rylee]

In my state it doesn't matter who is listed on the birth certificate and even if paternity is established but the couple was not married the father has NO legal rights unless established by a mediator/court or some sort of official documented agreement between both parties. My friend and his ex shared a home, shared finances, raised the child together for almost 6 years. He is listed on the birth certificate and so on. Yet when it ended he learned he had no legal rights and an agreement had to be put in place to allow him visitation, decisions regarding education/medical..etc. From what I can gather in my state if the woman is unmarried at the birth and for so many months prior then a father can't be listed unless both parties sign a legal affidavit establishing paternity (if I understood it all correctly..I think I am remember what the friend told me) but even with that it does not grant the father any special rights/custody..etc.

THIS is true in NY, too. (Not sure what state you're in.)

However, the reason I asked if paternity was already established is because if he is the child's legal father, he can petition the court right away. If not, he has to take the legal steps to establish paternity, which could take more time, (and money.)