Father's rights ( no custody agreement)

[badblackpug]

Am I the only one with a drama-free FB experience? I have deleted the drama filled friends & family. Especially the family! Who needs that?

I'm catching on too that no one asked for your help. Just repeating something you observed.

Just delete these people. You will be so much happier. Trust me.

No, I have no drama on FB. My friends just post little updates and funny things.

The drama llamas would get deleted.

To quote my husband, "I shot the drama llama years ago."

 

[luvsJack]

Having jumped through the family court hoops a few times, I will explain. There is physical custody, meaning the child lives with you, and there is legal custody, meaning you have the right to make, or participate in making, legal decisions (education, medical, etc) for the child. Having legal custody doesn't mean the child lives with you, or primarily with you.

This father should have, long ago, established legal custody of this child. If he had done this he could have prevented the mother from moving the child out of state without his permission. Strangely enough, since there is no custody agreement, the mother, essentially, also has no custodial rights.

At this point the father is screwed. There is no custody agreement so the mother is within her legal rights to move the child anywhere she pleases. There are probably no courts that will block the move, or force them to move back if they have already left. In these economic times very few judges are blocking moves that are based on job transfers. I know 2 fathers whose ex wives have moved their children, and both had legal visitation and custody agreements as defined in their divorce decrees.

The best thing for the father to do is to go to court, establish legal custody, and get a visitation schedule set. Since the father can prove that he has been involved, it is likely that his lawyer can, at the very least, get the mother to pay for travel expenses, since it was her move that caused the need to travel.

I am not really sure why you feel the need to "explain".

This man doesn't need to fight for any kind of custody in order to have the right to see her. A custody hearing would take longer and cost him a lot more than trying to get a visitation agreement.

The non-custodial parent has "visitation". My ex never had any sort of custody whatsoever. I know the difference between "legal" and "physical". But this is not necessarily what this father needs to try to get. He wants to visit with his child and can get visitation.

If he wants the right to make legal, medical and educational decisions for this child THEN he would need to fight for legal custody but if he hasn't needed to do that in 14 years and the mother is a fit mother who is able to make decisions for her child, there is no reason for him to do that.

 

[badblackpug]

I am not really sure why you feel the need to "explain".

This man doesn't need to fight for any kind of custody in order to have the right to see her. A custody hearing would take longer and cost him a lot more than trying to get a visitation agreement.

The non-custodial parent has "visitation". My ex never had any sort of custody whatsoever. I know the difference between "legal" and "physical". But this is not necessarily what this father needs to try to get. He wants to visit with his child and can get visitation.

If he wants the right to make legal, medical and educational decisions for this child THEN he would need to fight for legal custody but if he hasn't needed to do that in 14 years and the mother is a fit mother who is able to make decisions for her child, there is no reason for him to do that.

Ummm... okay, I'm not sure why you are taking offense, but okay...

...and, yes, he certainly does need to file for some sort of custody unless he wants the child's mother to keep making decisions without consulting him. She could move to Brazil next without a custody agreement.

...and it won't cost any more to file for joint legal custody and visitation than it will just visitation. It will be all one hearing.

...and, if the father has been responsible and involved there is no reason why a court wouldn't grant him joint legal custody.

 

[luvsJack]

Ummm... okay, I'm not sure why you are taking offense, but okay...

...and, yes, he certainly does need to file for some sort of custody unless he wants the child's mother to keep making decisions without consulting him. She could move to Brazil next without a custody agreement.

...and it won't cost any more to file for joint legal custody and visitation than it will just visitation. It will be all one hearing.

...and, if the father has been responsible and involved there is no reason why a court wouldn't grant him joint legal custody.

I'm not taking offense. I just wasn't sure why you felt you needed to explain anything

She will certainly be able to move again with a visitation agreement, but she will still have to abide by that agreement. Its a bit much to expect her to have physical custody but not be able to make decisions on that child without constantly consulting him.

It won't cost anymore to file but lawyer's fees and court costs can be much more. The mother may be willing to sit down with lawyers, come to a visitation agreement without ever stepping foot in a court room. But, after 14 years its likely she won't do that with his asking for any kind of custody.

 

[tinkerbellandeeyor]

Can they prevent the mom from leaving the county that is what my dad did to my mom.

 

[Swan4Me]

So, I'm guessing that no one's asked for your opinion or help. You really should just step away from facebook.

Just wondering what sort of options he has. No need for me to 'step away" from Facebook.

I offered him a hug and hoped he could find ways to see his DD when she moves. I really feel for him-she is his world-he loves her to pieces

 

[Coconut36]

I am not really sure why you feel the need to "explain".

This man doesn't need to fight for any kind of custody in order to have the right to see her. A custody hearing would take longer and cost him a lot more than trying to get a visitation agreement.

The non-custodial parent has "visitation". My ex never had any sort of custody whatsoever. I know the difference between "legal" and "physical". But this is not necessarily what this father needs to try to get. He wants to visit with his child and can get visitation.

If he wants the right to make legal, medical and educational decisions for this child THEN he would need to fight for legal custody but if he hasn't needed to do that in 14 years and the mother is a fit mother who is able to make decisions for her child, there is no reason for him to do that.

Of course he needs to get something in place. The mother is under no legal obligation to allow the child to visit him. Being that the mother has now decided to move the child away the father most certainly needs a legal agreement in place to establish visitation and custody for his child. My friend was only able to see his child on the whims of the mother prior to seeking a legal agreement..same goes in this case. Obviously things worked well for them for many years but she is changing things by taking the child out of state and thus altering any verbal agreements they had in place. Because of that he needs to get something in place or it could be a huge mess as she would not have to send the child back to him for any visits and could end them at any time/moment if she decided to.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Meh, OP already stated he won't go legal, so he'll save himself some money and time. Hopefully he'll get some visitation, tho if he's dicey with his meds, I can see the mom not letting her come back to stay with him. I wouldn't.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

OP, please encourage your nephew to go to his local Family Court. He does not need to hire a lawyer, they will help him there. Just as he does not have a custody agreement in place, neither does the mom. The judge will hear both sides and go from there. The child will generally not be allowed to leave until the case has been decided in court. He must go right away though, it will be much more difficult if she is already gone.

If he chooses not to go to court, it will likely be a battle for future visits. At the very least he should have that scheduled by the judge so he will have the opportunity to spend time with his daughter.

 

[badblackpug]

I'm not taking offense. I just wasn't sure why you felt you needed to explain anything

She will certainly be able to move again with a visitation agreement, but she will still have to abide by that agreement. Its a bit much to expect her to have physical custody but not be able to make decisions on that child without constantly consulting him.

It won't cost anymore to file but lawyer's fees and court costs can be much more. The mother may be willing to sit down with lawyers, come to a visitation agreement without ever stepping foot in a court room. But, after 14 years its likely she won't do that with his asking for any kind of custody.

Actually, this is the way that most custody agreements, that I know of, work. One parent has primary physical custody, in that the child lives mainly with him/her, but they have joint legal custody. Both parents are required to agree on things such as education, legal, and medical decisions, and the parent with primary physical custody cannot move the child out of the state without the other parent's permission, or a court order. My friend had to get a court order to move, with her son, form PA to NJ, even though it was 20 minutes away. It is very rare any more that a parent is refused any type of legal custody if they apply for it. The only time I have ever heard of it is when there is a violence history, or if the parent has been totally uninvolved.

Can they prevent the mom from leaving the county that is what my dad did to my mom.

Not without a legal custody agreement. Unless the father establishes at least joint legal custody, the mother is free to do as she pleases.

Of course he needs to get something in place. The mother is under no legal obligation to allow the child to visit him. Being that the mother has now decided to move the child away the father most certainly needs a legal agreement in place to establish visitation and custody for his child. My friend was only able to see his child on the whims of the mother prior to seeking a legal agreement..same goes in this case. Obviously things worked well for them for many years but she is changing things by taking the child out of state and thus altering any verbal agreements they had in place. Because of that he needs to get something in place or it could be a huge mess as she would not have to send the child back to him for any visits and could end them at any time/moment if she decided to.

Exactly. If this father has any sense he will take himself to the county courthouse ASAP to ensure his rights to see his daughter and to safeguard against this type of thing happening again.

Legally the mother was under no obligation to inform him that she was moving (due to the lack of custody agreement) but morally she was very, very wrong. If this father was an active, involved parent he had every right to know that his child was being moved. I'm not saying I think the move should be prevented, but I think he definitely had the right to know.

 

[sparklynails23]

:confused - your comments seem dsmissive

she is 14 and starting high school

He was her softball assistant coach for the last few years and spent a lot of time with her- she is his world.

When he takes his meds - all is well

It's not about "him." It's about what is best for her.

 

[beaucoup]

I offered him a hug and hoped he could find ways to see his DD when she moves. I really feel for him-she is his world-he loves her to pieces

Webcam
bus trips
drive
airplane

 

[elaine amj]

wow - I have to say I'm totally surprised with all the responses on this thread. I always thought fathers had gained a certain level of rights, particularly in this day and age. It's certainly been eye-opening to learn that if you work out an amicable arrangement and avoid the courts and the expenses of legal entanglements, that you really can "lose it all". My heart goes out to the father. From what everyone says, the mother can just take the girl and never has to allow the father access to her unless she wants to. If he fights it, it could turn out to be very expensive, especially considering his limited resources.

If he can't afford legal help, hopefully there is a low cost option like Family Court like some have suggested?

I hope the father has it in his budget for trips to visit his daughter or else to fly his daughter home to visit him. Although like many pointed out, few teenage girls will leave her friends/activities for a month or two willingly. In all fairness, the mother should help smooth the way/foot some of the extra bills. But, judging from her secretiveness (even as far as allowing the father to pay for 2 months of private school!), that's unlikely to happen.

Hope all works out for your nephew. It must be heartrending to think of his little girl being so far away from him, especially when he's been so involved in her daily life. .

That is one of the worst parts about living half the world away from my family. My parents relationship with their grandchildren has definitely been impacted. We skype, my DD emails daily - but it's completely NOT the same as if they were in the same town. If they were, my kids would be at my mom's at least 1x a week with plenty of sleepovers, etc.

 

[badblackpug]

wow - I have to say I'm totally surprised with all the responses on this thread. I always thought fathers had gained a certain level of rights, particularly in this day and age. It's certainly been eye-opening to learn that if you work out an amicable arrangement and avoid the courts and the expenses of legal entanglements, that you really can "lose it all". My heart goes out to the father. From what everyone says, the mother can just take the girl and never has to allow the father access to her unless she wants to. If he fights it, it could turn out to be very expensive, especially considering his limited resources.

If he can't afford legal help, hopefully there is a low cost option like Family Court like some have suggested?

I hope the father has it in his budget for trips to visit his daughter or else to fly his daughter home to visit him. Although like many pointed out, few teenage girls will leave her friends/activities for a month or two willingly. In all fairness, the mother should help smooth the way/foot some of the extra bills. But, judging from her secretiveness (even as far as allowing the father to pay for 2 months of private school!), that's unlikely to happen.

Hope all works out for your nephew. It must be heartrending to think of his little girl being so far away from him, especially when he's been so involved in her daily life. .

That is one of the worst parts about living half the world away from my family. My parents relationship with their grandchildren has definitely been impacted. We skype, my DD emails daily - but it's completely NOT the same as if they were in the same town. If they were, my kids would be at my mom's at least 1x a week with plenty of sleepovers, etc.

Actually, it goes both ways, only the father didn't know this or wouldn't do it, but without a custody agreement the father also could have taken the child at any time...No one has/had legal custody of that child.

Since the family is concerned, maybe they will help him hire an attorney. If he has a good attorney he will get joint legal custody and a visitation agreement. If he get a really good attorney he can require mom pay for travel expenses.

 

[denisem]

wow - I have to say I'm totally surprised with all the responses on this thread. I always thought fathers had gained a certain level of rights, particularly in this day and age. It's certainly been eye-opening to learn that if you work out an amicable arrangement and avoid the courts and the expenses of legal entanglements, that you really can "lose it all". My heart goes out to the father. From what everyone says, the mother can just take the girl and never has to allow the father access to her unless she wants to. If he fights it, it could turn out to be very expensive, especially considering his limited resources.

If he can't afford legal help, hopefully there is a low cost option like Family Court like some have suggested?

I hope the father has it in his budget for trips to visit his daughter or else to fly his daughter home to visit him. Although like many pointed out, few teenage girls will leave her friends/activities for a month or two willingly. In all fairness, the mother should help smooth the way/foot some of the extra bills. But, judging from her secretiveness (even as far as allowing the father to pay for 2 months of private school!), that's unlikely to happen.

Hope all works out for your nephew. It must be heartrending to think of his little girl being so far away from him, especially when he's been so involved in her daily life. .

That is one of the worst parts about living half the world away from my family. My parents relationship with their grandchildren has definitely been impacted. We skype, my DD emails daily - but it's completely NOT the same as if they were in the same town. If they were, my kids would be at my mom's at least 1x a week with plenty of sleepovers, etc.

Unfortunately, legal and moral are not synonymous. We can only learn from these examples on how to protect ourselves.

 

[sasywtch]

OP-if he is unwilling to seek legal advice, it is not doing him any favors. The mother can come back later and say he never paid any support. I hope he has receipts. I have seen this happen when someone pays cash without a custody agreement. If she can prove they were living separately, she can file for back child support. He needs to get everything legal now.

 

[tinkerbellandeeyor]

Am I the only one with a drama-free FB experience? I have deleted the drama filled friends & family. Especially the family! Who needs that?

I'm catching on too that no one asked for your help. Just repeating something you observed.

Just delete these people. You will be so much happier. Trust me.

OP-if he is unwilling to seek legal advice, it is not doing him any favors. The mother can come back later and say he never paid any support. I hope he has receipts. I have seen this happen when someone pays cash without a custody agreement. If she can prove they were living separately, she can file for back child support. He needs to get everything legal now.

 

[TDC Nala]

He'll need a lawyer if he wants to get some binding agreement as to custody or visitation or even try to enjoin the move. What happens in his state is going to determine the outcome under the circumstances (parents never married, no written agreement, but father involved and paying support)

Don't know anything about how the state will handle it, but if the 14 year old is asked and says she wants to move, she's probably moving and he'll need a visitation agreement. It's been intimated that the kid wants to go only because the stepfather is rich (Manhattan apartment, vacations in Aruba, etc), but who knows what her reasons are. If the judge wants to ask her, they'll ask her.

Just wondering what sort of options he has.

The OP has also indicated that her nephew is not willing to go to court. If that's the case, the kid is going to NYC. Her nephew will probably need counseling or assistance considering his mental health issues. He might also need help maintaining contact with his daughter and perhaps to visit her.

 

[Colleen27]

In my state it doesn't matter who is listed on the birth certificate and even if paternity is established but the couple was not married the father has NO legal rights unless established by a mediator/court or some sort of official documented agreement between both parties. My friend and his ex shared a home, shared finances, raised the child together for almost 6 years. He is listed on the birth certificate and so on. Yet when it ended he learned he had no legal rights and an agreement had to be put in place to allow him visitation, decisions regarding education/medical..etc. From what I can gather in my state if the woman is unmarried at the birth and for so many months prior then a father can't be listed unless both parties sign a legal affidavit establishing paternity (if I understood it all correctly..I think I am remember what the friend told me) but even with that it does not grant the father any special rights/custody..etc.

Same here. The presumption for an unmarried woman is that the mother has sole legal and physical custody, and unless both parties agree otherwise in legal filings or the father fights for more that is how it stays. My ex tried to block a move (not far, but out of the county; if he had joint legal custody he could have prevented it) many years ago and found he had to leg to stand on, legally speaking.

OP-if he is unwilling to seek legal advice, it is not doing him any favors. The mother can come back later and say he never paid any support. I hope he has receipts. I have seen this happen when someone pays cash without a custody agreement. If she can prove they were living separately, she can file for back child support. He needs to get everything legal now.

Yep. If he's not going to take legal action than he really can't do anything but hope that the child's mother will agree to visits on terms that he can afford and hope that there are no other consequences to keeping their arrangement informal.