Father's rights ( no custody agreement)

[Coconut36]

THIS is true in NY, too. (Not sure what state you're in.)

However, the reason I asked if paternity was already established is because if he is the child's legal father, he can petition the court right away. If not, he has to take the legal steps to establish paternity, which could take more time, (and money.)

Not NY but yes I totally agree with you in regards to paternity already being established. It was a rough road for the person I know and he DID have established paternity but having it means they can start proceedings vs needing to establish paternity and then once established being able to take legal action.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

I am so amazed at some of these responses. Yeah, let the kid go. They are dispensable. You don't need to see them every weekend. ?????

If he is on the birth certificate, she will have some explaining to do with the judge whether they have a court order or not. Courts do not look favorably on parents who move their kids. I am one that moved my kids (but brought them back). We had to go to court. My ex was not paying support at the time and it didn't matter. They look more on the parental relationship. I will also say, the very first question the new school asked me was, where was my court order allowing the child to come into a new state. If this new school does not ask this, then the mother is probably not being truthful who the real father is. He has rights to know the school, to get paperwork/grades from the school etc.

Sorry to say, but jobs do not trump all when it comes to family court. The best interest of the child trumps the courts. If your nephew does not have the funds, perhaps you have a legal aid or we have a law college that works for low income. If he is on the birth certificate and she has nothing in writing allowing the move out of state, the father can contact the school and the school has the authority to notify the authorities. If he's not on the birth certificate, extremely harder and would require paternity testing. The other option is for him to file for visitation and to make sure she has to pay for all travel expenses.

Just read a few more posts while I was writing: Whether someone has a custody arrangement or paying child support, if someone is listed on the birth certificate, the other parent must get permission from the courts (if the non moving parent contests it). I'm also baffled that a 14 year old should know what's appropriate when making a big move like this. Like I said, I would be extremely surprised if the new school does not ask for paperwork. Been there, done that.

WHere in my post does it say the child is dispensable? I'm saying the guy stands a very good chance of wasting his time and money. It's not like the kid is 2, she's 14 and wants to go with her mother. Add to it the guy has bi-polar and doesn't take his meds regularly? Yeah...a judge is really going to base a whole families' life on him? Don't think so. I'm just saying he should save himself the money and time and just take what they are willing to give him at this point. With OP mentioning the bipolar and not taking his meds, yeah, I'm betting there is a whole lot more to the story here (as usual).

She's asking what he should do, realistically, he should ask for a visitation schedule instead of trying to get a custody arrangement at this late date. Only 4 years until she can decide for herself when she wants to see him, or not.

 

[Swan4Me]

Maybe I missed it but does the stepfather need the job? Is he unemployed? I think that that makes a big difference.

The opinions of teens are taken into account by the courts. They don't get to decide but what they want does come into play.

When she married him he was a traveling salesman based out of NYC, but spending lots of time in their city. He now needs to be full time in NYC
The Dd has spent many trips to NYC, and face it, that is very exciting

My nephew is just a HS grad, not very smart and this whole issue is overwhelming for him-so I doubt he will go to court in the weeks before they go ()-BUT he is a dedicated DAD-goes to every Basketball and coaches Softball teams. He will/is be devestated when she leaves

 

[clm10308]

I have never heard of a school needing custody documents before letting a child enroll, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. What I have heard, and witnessed, is that a school must release a child to his/her parents unless there is a custody agreement in place that prevents it.
So, if the mother takes the kid out of state but has no custody agreeemnet there is nothing in place to prevent the father (assuming he is listed on her birth certificate) from going to the child's school and taking her back.

It would really benefit both parties to have some sort of custody agreement in place.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

They were poor kids -seniors in HS-when she was born
She wants to go-new DH has an apartment in manhattan, has $$ and took them to Aruba for vacation

My

nephew is a hard worker with no money-he owns a lawn care biz-just him. Pays the bills etc

I really feel for him-he has emotional issues and this is sending him "over the edge"

Perhaps counseling is in order for him? I would tell him to make the last days with her memorable and to let her go.

Sounds like it is time for him to let her go.

Tough situation but better to make the best of it then create stress and drama with his dd.

Anyway that is my 2 cents.

 

[luvmy3]

They were poor kids -seniors in HS-when she was born
She wants to go-new DH has an apartment in manhattan, has $$ and took them to Aruba for vacation

My

nephew is a hard worker with no money-he owns a lawn care biz-just him. Pays the bills etc

I really feel for him-he has emotional issues and this is sending him "over the edge"

What's with the eye roll? Do you have an issue with the dh being successful and being able to take his family, including his step dd, on vacations?

 

[okeydokey]

When she married him he was a traveling salesman based out of NYC, but spending lots of time in their city. He now needs to be full time in NYC
The Dd has spent many trips to NYC, and face it, that is very exciting

My nephew is just a HS grad, not very smart and this whole issue is overwhelming for him-so I doubt he will go to court in the weeks before they go ()-BUT he is a dedicated DAD-goes to every Basketball and coaches Softball teams. He will/is be devestated when she leaves

If he is not willing to go to court, then that is that. He can maintain contact if he wishes. He can't complain and dramatize it all if he is not willing to do anything about it.

So much drama in your family.

 

[luvsJack]

He just needs to get a lawyer and let the lawyer file an order to keep them from moving until its sorted out. The girl and her mother can always move later after the custody agreement is done.

He should let her go but not because the judge is going to automatically listen to only the girl. She is 14, the judge will take what she wants in consideration but that doesn't mean he will do what she wants. Besides, it sounds like she would say that she does want to see her father.

He and the girl's mother need to have an agreement on when she will visit, for how long and how she will get there. He still has the opportunity to be an involved father, its just going to change in the amount of time he is actually with her.

The mother and step-father should have acted as adults and sat down and discussed this with him before hand. That is what a responsible parent does. But, they didn't and that can't be helped now. He just needs to take legal action to make them do the responsible thing. He is this girl's father and he does have rights.

 

[Feckless]

The wishes of a 14 year old should not be determinative, but would normally carry the day, especially when the child lives primarily with the mother and step-dad. Add to that any issue the father has with psychiatric illnesses, and because of that may not be a good primary custodian (because he can only keep his daughter here, not the rest of the family) and the mother would have a good case for relocation. I would say that the father can easily get a temporary order for the child to remain, ultimately, where it is for real economic reasons and the child wants to go, in my jurisdiction, he probably would not be able to keep her there after a full hearing. What he might want to do is go to the mother and get a consent custody order in place (she should sign to avoid legal problems and a trial to allow the move) that would provide for phone and webcam access, and time in the summer and on holidays.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[luvsJack]

The wishes of a 14 year old should not be determinative, but would normally carry the day, especially when the child lives primarily with the mother and step-dad. Add to that any issue the father has with psychiatric illnesses, and because of that may not be a good primary custodian (because he can only keep his daughter here, not the rest of the family) and the mother would have a good case for relocation. I would say that the father can easily get a temporary order for the child to remain, ultimately, where it is for real economic reasons and the child wants to go, in my jurisdiction, he probably would not be able to keep her there after a full hearing. What he might want to do is go to the mother and get a consent custody order in place (she should sign to avoid legal problems and a trial to allow the move) that would provide for phone and webcam access, and time in the summer and on holidays.

Just my 2 cents...

IMHO, I don't think he should try to get custody. Not because of his emotional issues that he seems to be handling, but because its obvious that the mother can better provide for her. Doesn't sound like there are any issues that would make either the mother or the father a better parent.

BUT, I do think he should take action to temporarily stop the move until he has a visitation agreement.

 

[luvmy3]

I don't know anything about visitation agreement, but does he have to stop the move in order to file for one? She is starting HS and its hard enough to start a new school in the beginning of the school year, what if he stops the move for months and school is already in session? That isn't something I'd want to do to my child if I could avoid it.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

He is Bi-polar and hyper (ADD) if he doesnt take his meds.
The DD is loving the move.
I think it was very wrong not to tell him until the last minute
it was all
"hashed out" on Facebook last nite=not pretty.

Being mad at her for not speaking up earlier is perhaps justified, but is really irrelevant to the issue at hand.

If I were him, I would consult with a lawyer to find out if there's realistically anything he can do to stop the move. I doubt there is, but I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the DIS. At that point, he can try and work out a visitation schedule with his ex, with or without the help of a lawyer. There are pro bono lawyers who will at least consult with a person.

 

[badblackpug]

IMHO, I don't think he should try to get custody. Not because of his emotional issues that he seems to be handling, but because its obvious that the mother can better provide for her. Doesn't sound like there are any issues that would make either the mother or the father a better parent.

BUT, I do think he should take action to temporarily stop the move until he has a visitation agreement.

Having jumped through the family court hoops a few times, I will explain. There is physical custody, meaning the child lives with you, and there is legal custody, meaning you have the right to make, or participate in making, legal decisions (education, medical, etc) for the child. Having legal custody doesn't mean the child lives with you, or primarily with you.

This father should have, long ago, established legal custody of this child. If he had done this he could have prevented the mother from moving the child out of state without his permission. Strangely enough, since there is no custody agreement, the mother, essentially, also has no custodial rights.

At this point the father is screwed. There is no custody agreement so the mother is within her legal rights to move the child anywhere she pleases. There are probably no courts that will block the move, or force them to move back if they have already left. In these economic times very few judges are blocking moves that are based on job transfers. I know 2 fathers whose ex wives have moved their children, and both had legal visitation and custody agreements as defined in their divorce decrees.

The best thing for the father to do is to go to court, establish legal custody, and get a visitation schedule set. Since the father can prove that he has been involved, it is likely that his lawyer can, at the very least, get the mother to pay for travel expenses, since it was her move that caused the need to travel.

 

[beaucoup]

Distance between locations in the 21st century isn't as terrible as it used to be. We have many methods to communicate besides the written letter via US Postal Service. Video chat is a great invention. A $20 webcam is all you need.

You can do homework together, watch TV together, just hang out with each other in your rooms. Heck, they might even be in same or similar time zones making life even easier.

DH & I did that for a year with 9.5 hr time difference between us while he was in Afghanistan.

It really wasn't nearly as bad I thought it would be. Probably connected more than with him being home because we worked at it. Distance can be a good thing at times.

My opinion is if they both cared so much, they would have made legal arrangements long ago. For instance, what if something happened to the mom. Who would take care of child? Lots of neglected issues here on parents part.

 

[badblackpug]

Distance between locations in the 21st century isn't as terrible as it used to be. We have many methods to communicate besides the written letter via US Postal Service. Video chat is a great invention. A $20 webcam is all you need.

You can do homework together, watch TV together, just hang out with each other in your rooms. Heck, they might even be in same or similar time zones making life even easier.

DH & I did that for a year with 9.5 hr time difference between us while he was in Afghanistan.

It really wasn't nearly as bad I thought it would be. Probably connected more than with him being home because we worked at it. Distance can be a good thing at times.

My opinion is if they both cared so much, they would have made legal arrangements long ago. For instance, what if something happened to the mom. Who would take care of child? Lots of neglected issues here on parents part.

Actually, in a way, I understand them NOT going to court. They got along. They agreed on custody and visitation. I'm not saying it was smart. I wouldn't recommend anyone else do this, but I see how the mistake was made. It was a mistake made in good faith.

I had a friend that made this mistake, only a little opposite. Her daughter's father hadn't seen her since she was a year old, and hadn't paid any child support since then either. (there was a child support order) When her daughter was 5-6 the child's father got arrested for non payment of child support. While he was in jail, he wrote a letter to her saying he wanted her to bring the little girl to see him in jail. She said "Oh hell no. She doesn't know you, and she won't meet you in jail." As soon as he got out of jail he filed for full custody. My friend's lawyer explained that since there was no legal custody order he could have taken her daughter at any time without repercussion. She didn't go to court for the opposite reason. She figured he disappeared 4 years ago, and didn't pay his support, so he had no interest, and wouldn't be around. She immediately filed for, and got, full legal and physical custody.

He still hasn't paid his child support.

 

[marlynnp]

He is Bi-polar and hyper (ADD) if he doesnt take his meds.
The DD is loving the move.
I think it was very wrong not to tell him until the last minute
it was all
"hashed out" on Facebook last nite=not pretty.

So, I'm guessing that no one's asked for your opinion or help. You really should just step away from facebook.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

So, I'm guessing that no one's asked for your opinion or help. You really should just step away from facebook.

 

[ilovemk76]

I think another nephew needs to clear out his Facebook friends list.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

I think another nephew needs to clear out his Facebook friends list.

You guys are killing me.

 

[beaucoup]

Am I the only one with a drama-free FB experience? I have deleted the drama filled friends & family. Especially the family! Who needs that?

I'm catching on too that no one asked for your help. Just repeating something you observed.

Just delete these people. You will be so much happier. Trust me.