fantasies - am i wrong

[cornflake]

The poster appears to be working off some documentary from the '70s, in which porn is backroom movies made with runaways who need to be plied with drugs to participate, which they do because of their abusive, horrible childhoods.

Which is... not the case.

Things like the giant Adult Entertainment Expo thing, films like Zach and Miri Make a Porno, etc., are kind of evidence as to how much that's not the case.

 

[NY Disney fan]

Things like the giant Adult Entertainment Expo thing, films like Zach and Miri Make a Porno, etc., are kind of evidence as to how much that's not the case.

Oh, I forgot, that normalizes everything. Thanks for the reminder. Do you know who attends those expos in Las Vegas. Old men over 55 who want to spend their retirement money. You think young college guys go there? H aha ha.

 

[cornflake]

Oh, I forgot, that normalizes everything. Thanks for the reminder. Do you know who attends those expos in Las Vegas. Old men over 55 who want to spend their retirement money. You think young college guys go there? H aha ha.

Spend their retirement money? What? On what? A picture? Yes, college-age guys go there, as do college-age girls. It's a huge thing.

What normalizes porn and fantasizing, again, is that most people do it. It's normal, like it or not, want it in your own life or not.

The examples were meant to be examples of how mainstream and accepted porn has become, not how normal it is. It's normal because it is. So says everything from filthy cave drawings to everything else.

 

[ccgirl]

Wow! Thanks for all of the advice. I have been building up to posting about this for over 2 years out of fear.

I will try to clear up some questions. My husband originally brought it up in 2003 during an intense conversation where we were trying to figure out why our marriage was so rocky since having kids. He did not just spring this on me.

The same happened in 2009 after it all went to hell again after the birth of our 3rd child. He has a very revealing face. I had made a joke about him watching porn, his face told me he actually had. That shocked me. So I asked if he had been fantasizing about other women again since we had talked in 2003. He admitted it. I admittedly asked who he had fantasized about.

About the age of females he looks at.... obviously I can't be sure but I know a lot of them are traveling with their parents and siblings as a family! He seems to have a thing for the teenage Brazilian tour group girls. So we are definitely talking about teens. He is over 40, by the way. I have my own personal reason to dread the Brazilian tour groups now.

As for me, thank you so much for your concern. I know I need help and have for a long time. My husband has promised me that he will also see a counsellor both alone and with me. I have told him that he needs to figure out why he is doing this and if he actually loves me or not.

If it makes a difference, I definately have aspergers and he probably does. So I am searching for the reason behind this because it is illogical to me. I do not understand why he would marry me if he was attacted to someone else on our wedding day. If stresses me out when I can't make things make sense, if that makes sense to you??????

I am in a much better place than I was 2 years ago in terms of depression. I want to have hope back in my life and I want the possibility of being loved the way I should be and the way I deserve. I have always had self esteem issues due to childhood treatment but I am so much better than I have ever been. I look damn good for 40 and he knows it. That is why it makes me so angry that the age thing exists. I do not want or need to compete with a 16 year old. Believe me, I have brought up the whole pedophelia thing with him.

Do I badger him constantly? No. I let it stew in my mind and I still want answers which I don't think he can give at this time. I was just afraid that we would go to a counsellor and be told that it was my problem and fantasizing is normal and to give him a break.

Thanks again for your hugs and advice. Does aspergers change the situation much?

Lesson 1...never ask a question that you can't handle the answer to. Let me ask you this....do you see good looking actors on t.v. and think they are good looking etc? How is this any different? As for pornography....not a huge deal to me. Do you know how many boys happened to find their dad's stash of Playboy? I would have a problem with underage people but adults...nope. It is their choice. I think fantasizing, to a degree, is normal. Just, most people aren't honest enough to admit it. My BiL makes comments like, "girls didn't look like that when I was growing up." But, he's not fantasizing about them. You admit you have always had self esteem issues. It seems those with self esteem issues find reasons for others not to like them. I would start individual counseling for yourself first then go to couples counseling. I had post partum depression with my first. It made me think and feel things that I wouldn't normally feel. I urge you to seek counseling in case you have that. Best of luck to you.

 

[NY Disney fan]

What normalizes porn and fantasizing, again, is that most people do it. It's normal, like it or not, want it in your own life or not.

And that is a shame for women (married and single) will always have to compete with the unrealistic, cartoonish image of the women of porn. An image that is so distorted it is not even natural. Young men will never know what normal is when all they have is garbage in front of them.

 

[ccgirl]

Forget the fantasies, I couldn't get past the fact that he TOLD you that the other girl looked BETTER than you did on your wedding???? What the...

What loving husband SAYS that to his wife?????

Sounds like he's emotionally and intentionally abusive to you and harping on your self esteem, and it obviously worked.

No one NO ONE can hurt you without your personal permission. Since he seems to enjoy doing this he's looking for your reaction. Stop reacting to it. It's not YOU it's HIM.

Great post. Can't see that this is someone I would actually want a family with.

 

[cornflake]

And that is a shame for women (married and single) will always have to compete with the unrealistic, cartoonish image of the women of porn. An image that is so distorted it is not even natural. Young men will never know what normal is when all they have is garbage in front of them.

Goes both ways - most men aren't George Clooney or the guys on Spartacus or etc., nor are most men built like porn actors (yes, believe it or not, women also watch porn).

If men can't separate someone on a screen, groomed, surgically altered, made up, etc., from real people, that's a problem with them, same as if every woman expected the same of guys they know.

 

[grahamfam3]

Let me ask you this....do you see good looking actors on t.v. and think they are good looking etc? How is this any different?

I've been watching "The Office" since the beginning. Starting Thursday my wife has decided she now wants to watch it also. Why? Cuz James Spader is going to join the show, whom she has loved ever since he was the younger brother in Endless Love.

 

[NY Disney fan]

If men can't separate someone on a screen, groomed, surgically altered, made up, etc., from real people, that's a problem with them, same as if every woman expected the same of guys they know.

Scientific studies have been done on the human brain and porn use. After constant use, many men cannot separate real from fake. Ever played a video game and still see the images long after you turn the game off?

 

[FireDancer]

And that is a shame for women (married and single) will always have to compete with the unrealistic, cartoonish image of the women of porn. An image that is so distorted it is not even natural. Young men will never know what normal is when all they have is garbage in front of them.

Despite how we are portrayed in commercials and sitcoms most men are smart enough to distinguish between real and make believe. Almost all television, even reality television, is make believe.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

I think there is a lot going on here.

First, it's not wrong, abnormal, etc to fantasize, what is wrong is to have jealousy over it. Now if one was to act upon those fantasies without a mutual understanding between the partners of what is an agreeable relationship, that is another thing (I personally do not think it's wrong to have a mutually acceptable open or a form of an open relationship).

Second, we are getting one side of the story, others have pointed out, the mention of fantasizing could have been freely given or pulled out of the spouse, the latter probably a result of jealousy.

Third, I'll say it again, love is not sex and sex is not love. They are shared, but they are not mutually exclusive terms. One can be attracted to one person, but be in love with a different person who they are attracted to physically, but less so than the other. There is more to love than physical attributes.

Fourth, I do not agree with the husband stating that he thought the bridesmaid was more attractive on a wedding day than the spouse. But again, was this said in anger, frustration (not that it makes it better) or freely given. Sometimes people say stuff in anger/frustration, that has truth to it, but would never say normally. It doesn't make it right and the person needs some counseling to handle their anger. Now if it was said freely, well, that person needs to learn when and how to say things, the same thing could have been said with a positive influence and not have been as hurtful.

All in all, I think some open dialog is in order, not yelling or screaming, but honest, open dialog. This probably is best with a counselor present who can be the mediator. It also means separate counseling sessions with each person to level set and keep the communication flowing.

 

[bettymae1121]

I think there is a difference between the occasional fantasy and fantising all the time, just like there is a difference between occasion use of porn and 27/7 porn, or occasional use of strip clubs vs. 2 to 3 times a week. As with most things in life, moderation is key. I know my DH has a small stash of nauty pictures on his computer. He doesn't hide them, I know they are there. I don't know how often he looks at them, but since it's a small amount I can't imagine it's all that often. I don't care in the least, not when we were first married, not now that I'm pregnant and not quite my slim self anymore, and I won't be years from now either. He's married, not dead. I have no interest in it, but if I did he wouldn't care either. We respect and trust each other.

Where I would have a problem is with fantising about people you actually know and interact with on a regular basis. It's one thing to think about people you see on tv or in the movies, it's another to have a fling-in-your-head with the cute chick/guy in the cubicle down the hall from you at the office. It's too easy for fantasy to become reality when it's about someone you really know, IMO.

 

[confusedwife]

Me again. I didn't expect porn to become the main subject. I was just making the point that finding out he had looked online secretly when I was away made me ask if he was fantasizing still.

The comment about the maid of honour was in 2003 after finding out he fantasized about having sex with her. So I asked what he was thinking about the day he married me. His point was he loved me and wanted to marry me but he was attracted to her.

Maybe it is my aspergers, but I don't understand the whole concept of "attracted more to someone else but love you".

I get that everyone is attracted to other people. He liked Geena Davis and Cindy Crawford when we met. He knows I have always had a thing for Han Solo/ Indiana Jones. It is the whole thinking of having sex with my friends, his co-workers, etc.. that throws me.

Off to therapy!

 

[tlbwriter]

If it makes a difference, I definately have aspergers and he probably does. So I am searching for the reason behind this because it is illogical to me. I do not understand why he would marry me if he was attacted to someone else on our wedding day.

Do not confuse attraction with love. I'm not saying he has done nothing wrong - being attracted to someone else on your wedding day is a bad sign, IMHO - but do NOT assume he can't love you simply because he finds someone else attractive.

I doubt people try hard to become porn actors. Do you understand what the death and disease rate is?

Well, I know that when one of them tests positive for HIV, it actually makes the news, so I presume they're actually no less healthy than non-porn actors.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Sure he can "love" you while being strongly attracted to others and tied up in his fantasy love life, but so what? Don't you deserve better than that? You should think so. Just because HE loves you doesn't mean you need to be tied to someone who is going to treat you badly.

It doesn't matter if someone is treating you badly because they are just a jerk or for some kind of mental imbalance, it still hurts and YOU still pay the price.

If he can't/won't get help, don't feel like you need to stay because he says he "loves" you. HIS loving YOU shouldn't be the glue that holds you together. You need to love him and love yourself too.

 

[lovemygoofy]

Me again. I didn't expect porn to become the main subject. I was just making the point that finding out he had looked online secretly when I was away made me ask if he was fantasizing still.

The comment about the maid of honour was in 2003 after finding out he fantasized about having sex with her. So I asked what he was thinking about the day he married me. His point was he loved me and wanted to marry me but he was attracted to her.

Maybe it is my aspergers, but I don't understand the whole concept of "attracted more to someone else but love you".

I get that everyone is attracted to other people. He liked Geena Davis and Cindy Crawford when we met. He knows I have always had a thing for Han Solo/ Indiana Jones. It is the whole thinking of having sex with my friends, his co-workers, etc.. that throws me.

Off to therapy!

I think you both have a communication breakdown here and a different way of getting from Point A to Point B thought process.

It's not about loving you more or enough instead of being attracted. It's not the attraction is more than loving you. I think lots of people find others attractive outside of the relationship.

I'm not going to comment on the porn thing. I know it makes alot of people uncomfortable and it can make others feel like they are lacking.

However the things your husband says is pretty crappy actually really like an *** mostly. I don't care how hot he thinks the other person is he should never say you don't quite measure up. I don't know why anyone would say that other than if he was striking out. I'm guessing this was a heated dialogue or at least an emotional exchange.

There is soemthing somewhere that is constantly bringing this up whether it's his attention span in the house or something going on within the intimacy you two have. I know it's easy to say that you, the OP,needs to have faith in yourself and believe in yourself but to know your husband is thinking about others around you constantly has to batter yourself.

I get quite witchy and honestly if I would probably tell my husband when he was telling me his fantasies that I was fantasizing about my next husband!

 

[sam_gordon]

If nothing else, I agree your husband is a jerk (for his comments, not for "noticing" other women).

Fantasizing about something generic like the cheerleader or nurse thing or about someone unobtainable (Catwoman, Angelina Jolie, etc) is fine and might even be good for a relationship. I personally don't think a person in a monogamous relationship fantasizing about his/her next door neighbor is ever a good thing. Basically, my personal rule of thumb is that if it's something that could actually happen (which would seriously damage your relationship if it did happen) then it's a bad bad thing to dwell on thoughts or fantasies of it. Someone fantasizing about unrealistic things and telling his/her spouse about the fantasies so they can act them out is fairly normal. Someone fantasizing about people he/she knows in "real life" and then telling his/her spouse about it has the potential to lead to all sorts of problems. I think for the majority of people that sort of thing ought to be avoided like the plague.

Where I would have a problem is with fantising about people you actually know and interact with on a regular basis. It's one thing to think about people you see on tv or in the movies, it's another to have a fling-in-your-head with the cute chick/guy in the cubicle down the hall from you at the office. It's too easy for fantasy to become reality when it's about someone you really know, IMO.

Maybe it's because I'm a guy, but I don't understand the above. To me, having the "fling" with the neighbor/coworker is as unlikely as having a fling with Jennifer Anniston or Angelina Jolie. lol

 

[Shutterbug]

For some reason this thread got me thinking of that Friends episode from the other night. It was "The List" episode.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Me again. I didn't expect porn to become the main subject. I was just making the point that finding out he had looked online secretly when I was away made me ask if he was fantasizing still.

The comment about the maid of honour was in 2003 after finding out he fantasized about having sex with her. So I asked what he was thinking about the day he married me. His point was he loved me and wanted to marry me but he was attracted to her.

Maybe it is my aspergers, but I don't understand the whole concept of "attracted more to someone else but love you".

I get that everyone is attracted to other people. He liked Geena Davis and Cindy Crawford when we met. He knows I have always had a thing for Han Solo/ Indiana Jones. It is the whole thinking of having sex with my friends, his co-workers, etc.. that throws me.

Off to therapy!

First - you are a regular. There is a group of posters who will always tell the wife to "leave the bum". Ignore those messages.They are a result of things that have happened in those posters' lives, not yours.

Second, Your husband's fantasies sound normal. Not sure what percentage of men have sexual fantasies about friends, but all of mine do (at least, those I am close enough to have those sorts of discussions do - and most of the women, too).

Third, you do not have to "compete" with his fantasies. He knows that they are not going to happen. That is part of the fun - you can be anyone that you want, and do anything that you want, in a fantasy - Even things that you would never consider doing in the real world. Thinks of fantasies like internet forums. People say things on these boards that they would never consider saying to someone's face.

Finally, it sounds like you have real problems with your self-image and confidence. If he loves you and is not cheating on you, learn to love him for who is really is, not who you wish he was. He has fantasies. That isn't going to change, no matter how much he tries. So you need to find out why this bothers you so much and work on what you can control.

 

[Andtototoo]

If nothing else, I agree your husband is a jerk (for his comments, not for "noticing" other women).




Maybe it's because I'm a guy, but I don't understand the above. To me, having the "fling" with the neighbor/coworker is as unlikely as having a fling with Jennifer Anniston or Angelina Jolie. lol

You don't understand the difference?
1. You're never going to meet Jennifer Anniston or Angelina Jolie. So 100% chance that your fantasy will not come true.
2. Even if you did meet them, would they be interested in you when they can attract the hottest guys on the planet? So 100% that your fantasy will not come true.

Versus knowing friends/neighbors/coworkers (so there is a chance).

or let's put it this way: Your wife has the hots for Hugh Jackman and the hots for the guy next door. She can walk next door and make an offer with a reasonable chance that the guy next door will say yes. What are the odds that she's going to meet Hugh Jackman and if she did, that he'd be interested in her? Waaaay less than the guy next door.