Explosions and shootings in Paris

[mom2rtk]

For as many times as I've heard forensic scientists testify about DNA I realize now that I'm not sure how long the process itself takes to actually produce a result.

Well, I watched all the CSI shows, so I'm expecting a result in just under an hour.

 

[LisaR]

Just reported on MSNBC-
414 police raids over the past three nights in France.

I'm having a hard time understanding this. What has France been doing for the past year that they didn't seem to have a clue about the upcoming terrorist attacks yet now they know of 414 places to raid?? And this isn't just a knock on France. We did similar raids after 911 and I know Spain did after the train bombing. How do these intelligence agencies seem to have so little information until AFTER the devastation?

 

[LisaR]

Well, I watched all the CSI shows, so I'm expecting a result in just under an hour.

This made me laugh out loud!!

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm having a hard time understanding this. What has France been doing for the past year that they didn't seem to have a clue about the upcoming terrorist attacks yet now they know of 414 places to raid?? And this isn't just a knock on France. We did similar raids after 911 and I know Spain did after the train bombing. How do these intelligence agencies seem to have so little information until AFTER the devastation?

Might have something to do with the needle of probable cause taking a drastic swing in light of recent events.

 

[gwynne]

I'd put money on attempting a familial match.

I'm having a hard time understanding this. What has France been doing for the past year that they didn't seem to have a clue about the upcoming terrorist attacks yet now they know of 414 places to raid?? And this isn't just a knock on France. We did similar raids after 911 and I know Spain did after the train bombing. How do these intelligence agencies seem to have so little information until AFTER the devastation?

JMO-There was likely a boatload of info on the cellphone they found. As they worked through that, they spider webbed to many more suspects, places.
I also think that they had folks on their radar screen, but those individuals probably hadn't actually done anything big yet. Those people got a knock on the door, too.

 

[CPanther95]

I'm having a hard time understanding this. What has France been doing for the past year that they didn't seem to have a clue about the upcoming terrorist attacks yet now they know of 414 places to raid?? And this isn't just a knock on France. We did similar raids after 911 and I know Spain did after the train bombing. How do these intelligence agencies seem to have so little information until AFTER the devastation?

They have plenty of information, but due process prevents acting unilaterally on it. In the case of France, they suspended the need for search warrants. In the case of the US it was a combo of modifying laws and probably some suddenly very cooperative judges that lowered their threshold for the evidence required to issue warrants. Plus it's easier to convince the courts of an impending threat immediately following an attack.

The current headline is : "400+ Raids Yield 60 Arrests"
Assuming all 60 are guilty, and none of the raids yielded multiple arrests, you could forge a much less attractive headline regarding the 340+ raids conducted without search warrants that yielded no arrests.

 

[Jon84]

Well, I watched all the CSI shows, so I'm expecting a result in just under an hour.

Lol

Don't forget the music backed montage!

 

[TLSnell1981]

I must confess, I have NEVER watched a single episode of CSI.

 

[asta]

I'm having a hard time understanding this. What has France been doing for the past year that they didn't seem to have a clue about the upcoming terrorist attacks yet now they know of 414 places to raid?? And this isn't just a knock on France. We did similar raids after 911 and I know Spain did after the train bombing. How do these intelligence agencies seem to have so little information until AFTER the devastation?

I don't have any specific knowledge but wonder if it has something to do with war powers vs the normal rule of law. I have this vague idea of during a time of war that a country can inact emergency powers and suspend others. And didn't France say that they are now at war with ISIS.

 

[Jon84]

I must confess, I have NEVER watched a single episode of CSI.

Watch one, then you've seen them all!

 

[Jon84]

I don't have any specific knowledge but wonder if it has something to do with war powers vs the normal rule of law. I have this vague idea of during a time of war that a country can inact emergency powers and suspend others. And didn't France say that they are now at war with ISIS.

I think it's todo with the 'state of emergency'. They have ten days under that. And can pass 3 months thru parliament if they feel it's needed

 

[gwynne]

I must confess, I have NEVER watched a single episode of CSI.

I haven't either.

 

[LisaR]

I totally get the whole probable cause/search warrant thing and now there is a state of emergency and laws are likely a little more lenient, it just seems like 414 raids is excessive. Don't get me wrong, I completely support it, but it is frightening to think that there were 414 places that they either didn't know about before or couldn't manage to get enough probable cause in the past year to search BEFORE the attacks.

 

[Jon84]

I totally get the whole probable cause/search warrant thing and now there is a state of emergency and laws are likely a little more lenient, it just seems like 414 raids is excessive. Don't get me wrong, I completely support it, but it is frightening to think that there were 414 places that they either didn't know about before or couldn't manage to get enough probable cause in the past year to search BEFORE the attacks.

Well they know that c.1000 people have been from France to Syria and back. But they haven't been able to track them all

 

[gwynne]

I totally get the whole probable cause/search warrant thing and now there is a state of emergency and laws are likely a little more lenient, it just seems like 414 raids is excessive. Don't get me wrong, I completely support it, but it is frightening to think that there were 414 places that they either didn't know about before or couldn't manage to get enough probable cause in the past year to search BEFORE the attacks.

I get the frustration, but I think having a terrorist's cell phone was an immediate game changer.

 

[asta]

Why, why, why do decent people cover up for these monsters? Listening to CNN right now so I can't provide a printed link but people in the neighborhood knew this criminal mastermind was in the area. It sounds like more than one saw him. They even say he went to the mosque early, before the raid. The reporter said that when asked why they did not report this to anyone they were "evasive" in their reasons.

I just do not get it. I want to believe that almost all of these people are peaceful and only require our understanding but then something like this. And he can go to a house of worship in full view and not fear that someone would turn him in! How is that peaceful, decent or many other words I want to use. And these people caught last night were in the process of killing more innocents. Excuse my outrage but you cover up terrorists, you enable them to kill even more. The blood they spill is on your hands also.

 

[CPanther95]

I totally get the whole probable cause/search warrant thing and now there is a state of emergency and laws are likely a little more lenient, it just seems like 414 raids is excessive. Don't get me wrong, I completely support it, but it is frightening to think that there were 414 places that they either didn't know about before or couldn't manage to get enough probable cause in the past year to search BEFORE the attacks.

I guarantee we have thousands of homes the government would like to pop in and take a "looksy" just to see what's going on because there's an increased likelihood of wrongdoing, but not enough evidence to convince them that wrongdoing is LIKELY. Without the burden of probable cause, they can check them all out.

 

[cabanafrau]

I totally get the whole probable cause/search warrant thing and now there is a state of emergency and laws are likely a little more lenient, it just seems like 414 raids is excessive. Don't get me wrong, I completely support it, but it is frightening to think that there were 414 places that they either didn't know about before or couldn't manage to get enough probable cause in the past year to search BEFORE the attacks.

It is frightening to consider the scope of potential threats. The standard of probable cause is an important one in free societies and shouldn't be overrun lightly.

 

[Jon84]

Why, why, why do decent people cover up for these monsters? Listening to CNN right now so I can't provide a printed link but people in the neighborhood knew this criminal mastermind was in the area. It sounds like more than one saw him. They even say he went to the mosque early, before the raid. The reporter said that when asked why they did not report this to anyone they were "evasive" in their reasons.

I just do not get it. I want to believe that almost all of these people are peaceful and only require our understanding but then something like this. And he can go to a house of worship in full view and not fear that someone would turn him in! How is that peaceful, decent or many other words I want to use. And these people caught last night were in the process of killing more innocents. Excuse my outrage but you cover up terrorists, you enable them to kill even more. The blood they spill is on your hands also.

The landlord of the apartment was arrested while being interviewed on TV. He claimed he didn't know who they were

 

[Patch'sD]

????
Serious question. what job? we were not eradicating terrorism, we were bankrupting our own country, we were losing our own sons lives and no discernible results. How long should we have staid, 10, 20, 30 years? occupy.

In Iraq we were not eradicating terrorism at the start we were more to stop Saddam and his aiding of terrorist, in Afghanistan we were at the start. The war in Iraq became a war on terrorists as terrorists flooded into the region to fight the infidels. With the change of administrations we began the draw down and eventual withdrawal of troops in IRAQ and a timetable to end operations in Afghanistan. I don't think we were bankrupting our own country as defense spending still only represents a small percentage of the US Budget. I think that the results are more striking when you think of the US not supporting the region with the genocide that is happening in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Nigeria, and so many other places. Of course we can put our heads in the sand like those so many times in the past until it comes here and than it is to late. So you can listen to the talking heads and say it is not our fight. Those same thoughts were around before WWI and WWII. We took action in Korea and Vietnam. South Korea is still Free and we are still there, Vietnam fell, we left, but all of Southeast Asia did not all fall to communism.