Ending a marriage (long overdue update #55)

[Renesmee]

Well, seeing as how he doesn't really react to anything, why would you think he would say anything now? It seems that you are expecting him to open up all of the sudden and ask for counseling, but then again from my perception of him, he won't do that, maybe over time but not now. This is not in his personality and yet are you expecting him to? Its unlikely he actually will. It is a communication problem and he isn't opening up. You can't expect him to all of the sudden and he may be holding something back but doesn't know how to do it. It may not have anything to do with you. Give him and yourself some time to not only figure something out but to realize what needs to change. I am sure you already know what needs to be done, but I am sure he is unhappy with some of the behavior traits you have too because not everything is one person's fault in a divorce. "Well, HE has to initiate it" after he hasn't done much isn't going to solve it. Don't just wash your hands of him because he didn't initiate. There is something up here and it needs to have a closer look.

Thank you, but I am not expecting him to do anything. I am saying, that if HE doesn't want to leave then HE needs to be the one to take action. Sure, I can tell him we need to go to counseling, and he will probably go along with it. As it has been for 14 years. I say what we are doing, and he goes along with it. I am sure he is unhappy with some of my traits, but until he tells me what they are, how I can I change? I have decidied I am going to do what is right for me. I will kepp myself open to getting some outside help, but I am not the one that is going to look for it. If he wants it to be different, he will have to be the one to make a move.

Just like this morning, I mentioned his brother's house. (I figured that is where he would go, since his brother lives in a big house all alone) He said "Why are you trying to force me into my brother's house?" I am not forcing him anywhere. I simply thought that that was where he would end up. It makes the most sense. Well, now I know he might have a different plan, even though I mentioned his brother back when we talked on Monday night, but he has not told me what it is. So, I don't know where he will go, but I am all done with suggesting a place.

Simply being open to counseling is a little different than what Scurvy suggested. Tell him that you are open to it.

I won't give you my standard bankruptcy speech. However, I hope that you realize the difficulties that you will face with bad credit due to a recent bankruptcy right when you are starting out on your own with children.

Yeah, well, the bank is going to forclose with or without a bankruptcy. So I will be starting my "new" life with bad credit anyway. I am going to have to learn live cash only.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Good luck OP. At least now you know which direction you're heading and you can begin to build a new life for you and your children. My only concern is that you are both using the same lawyer. If DH is paying for it, then I would assume that is where the lawyer's loyalties lie. Maybe you should get your own lawyer for the separation/divorce decree, so you know someone is covering your butt and fighting for you and the kids.

 

[Renesmee]

Good luck OP. At least now you know which direction you're heading and you can begin to build a new life for you and your children. My only concern is that you are both using the same lawyer. If DH is paying for it, then I would assume that is where the lawyer's loyalties lie. Maybe you should get your own lawyer for the separation/divorce decree, so you know someone is covering your butt and fighting for you and the kids.

The lawyer is just for the financial aspect. (bankruptcy) He will not represent either one of us in a divorce. We will not use the same lawyer for that.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am glad to hear your update.... Thanks for sharing, because many DIsers do really care!

My thoughts and prayers are with you, and I hope for the very best, and much happiness in your future!

 

[dennis99ss]

to let a house go is one thing. To file bankruptcy is another. The first thing the lawyer said was file bankruptcy???? you need to find another lawyer.

In this economy, you can negotiate, renegotiate, tap into govt. money, etc. Plus, the bank doesn't want your house back. And, why file bankruptcy together? and screw up two people's credit?

Thinking outloud, have you thought this through? I wonder if you have been made fully aware of all of your options, and the fact that bankruptcy is not a clean slate as it once was in most cases. Under the new rules, you will likely be placed in counseling or in a payment plan rather than having the debts forgiven outright.

I know that is not what people wanted to hear in this thread, but it goes perfectly with the whole tone. OP wants a divorce, she knows DH is not going to cross her, as he is simply not that kind of guy. So, when OP says I want out, DH says, well, I guess to make her happy, I need to let her go. Then OP complains about DH not doing anything.

OP, if you wanted to keep the marriage, you would have done something first. It sounds to me like you told DH you wanted out, and since he believed you, you are now hurt.

Frankly, I feel sorry for the DH that he has to go through a divorce, and that OP's decision is going to ruin his credit for the next 10 or more years, but, in the end, DH is going to be better off, and I would guess that OP is going to be wondering what hit her when she can't find another who is "content"

I also think it is "chicken____" as someone said, to let DH move out and surprise the kids with it when they come back home.

Funny, I never once heard OP worry about the effect her decision had on her kids.

I know this is somewhat harsh, but, from a guy, thats what i see

 

[dennis99ss]

I have decidied I am going to do what is right for me.

anger, selfishness, depression, and avoidance in these comments there are.

OP made up her mind a long time ago to get out, and do nothing to save the marriage. She just came on the board to help her shore herself up

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, please to not let posts like the above get to you...

I do agree that I would not simply file for bankruptcy unless you have carefully examined all other options...

A house forclosure, especially in todays economic/housing environment, will probably look a lot less worse than a bankruptcy.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

to let a house go is one thing. To file bankruptcy is another. The first thing the lawyer said was file bankruptcy???? you need to find another lawyer.

In this economy, you can negotiate, renegotiate, tap into govt. money, etc. Plus, the bank doesn't want your house back. And, why file bankruptcy together? and screw up two people's credit?

Thinking outloud, have you thought this through? I wonder if you have been made fully aware of all of your options, and the fact that bankruptcy is not a clean slate as it once was in most cases. Under the new rules, you will likely be placed in counseling or in a payment plan rather than having the debts forgiven outright.

I know that is not what people wanted to hear in this thread, but it goes perfectly with the whole tone. OP wants a divorce, she knows DH is not going to cross her, as he is simply not that kind of guy. So, when OP says I want out, DH says, well, I guess to make her happy, I need to let her go. Then OP complains about DH not doing anything.

OP, if you wanted to keep the marriage, you would have done something first. It sounds to me like you told DH you wanted out, and since he believed you, you are now hurt.

Frankly, I feel sorry for the DH that he has to go through a divorce, and that OP's decision is going to ruin his credit for the next 10 or more years, but, in the end, DH is going to be better off, and I would guess that OP is going to be wondering what hit her when she can't find another who is "content"

I also think it is "chicken____" as someone said, to let DH move out and surprise the kids with it when they come back home.

Funny, I never once heard OP worry about the effect her decision had on her kids.

I know this is somewhat harsh, but, from a guy, thats what i see

anger, selfishness, depression, and avoidance in these comments there are.

OP made up her mind a long time ago to get out, and do nothing to save the marriage. She just came on the board to help her shore herself up

Wow, judgmental much? If her DH really gave a crap about her, the house, the kids, he would have stood up and fought, objected, begged, discussed, etc. not just rolled over and played dead. And if he is that much of a pushover, who would want to be with someone like that anyway? I don't seen any indication that OP's DH has made any mention of what this will do to the kids either, so I guess no one has thought about them? It really seems like you have no problem assuming every issue with this marriage is because of OP and her DH is an absolute

 

[AlleyKat]

to let a house go is one thing. To file bankruptcy is another. The first thing the lawyer said was file bankruptcy???? you need to find another lawyer.

In this economy, you can negotiate, renegotiate, tap into govt. money, etc. Plus, the bank doesn't want your house back. And, why file bankruptcy together? and screw up two people's credit?

Thinking outloud, have you thought this through? I wonder if you have been made fully aware of all of your options, and the fact that bankruptcy is not a clean slate as it once was in most cases. Under the new rules, you will likely be placed in counseling or in a payment plan rather than having the debts forgiven outright.

I know that is not what people wanted to hear in this thread, but it goes perfectly with the whole tone. OP wants a divorce, she knows DH is not going to cross her, as he is simply not that kind of guy. So, when OP says I want out, DH says, well, I guess to make her happy, I need to let her go. Then OP complains about DH not doing anything.

OP, if you wanted to keep the marriage, you would have done something first. It sounds to me like you told DH you wanted out, and since he believed you, you are now hurt.

Frankly, I feel sorry for the DH that he has to go through a divorce, and that OP's decision is going to ruin his credit for the next 10 or more years, but, in the end, DH is going to be better off, and I would guess that OP is going to be wondering what hit her when she can't find another who is "content"

I also think it is "chicken____" as someone said, to let DH move out and surprise the kids with it when they come back home.

Funny, I never once heard OP worry about the effect her decision had on her kids.

I know this is somewhat harsh, but, from a guy, thats what i see

anger, selfishness, depression, and avoidance in these comments there are.

OP made up her mind a long time ago to get out, and do nothing to save the marriage. She just came on the board to help her shore herself up

Talk about beating a person while they're down...did you read through and comprehend what the OP is going through/has gone through?

 

[dennis99ss]

No, not at all. But all we have to go by is the OP's comments, and the way she talks down about DH and the fact that for 14 years she has told DH what to do and he has learned to live with it.

OP comes on in mid July, says she has problems and wants to talk. She waits weeks and then writes a note, assumingly, basically telling DH that she is done. Then she engages DH and tells him she is done, how is he. He says content. She says counseling, he says he would try but does not know if it would work. Op then says she is not going to push for it.....maybe because that would require a desire on OP part to save the marriage, which she does not want to do. If her intent is so clear from her written word, her spoken word is likely even clearer to DH.

It takes two to tango, but, from op, it is clear that she wears the pants in the family. She has done so for 14 years, and all of a sudden she wants to take them off and give them back to DH?

She expects DH to immediately change? after listening to her for 14 years, he is probably of the mind that I am not going to put my ____ on the table, because every time I have done in the past, she has chopped them off. So he sits and says, counseling could be done, giving her the line if she wanted to take it, but, from the start, it is clear, from what she has written, that she didn't want it. So, DH does not feel like getting his ____ chopped off again.

If this is judgemental, so be it, but what OP wanted to hear from DH is a fantasy....DH will be the knight and come in and save the day. However, it sounds like OP never let DH be the knight before.......although sticking with her for 14 years sounds like a pretty good Knight to me.

 

[dennis99ss]

Talk about beating a person while they're down...did you read through and comprehend what the OP is going through/has gone through?

Yes. But, i can also see what she says, and what she is putting DH through.

How would you(genarally) react, if spouse comes in and says we are done. You must change. It is not out of the realm of possibility that the spouse in the dark says, "well, no changing that" I'll give her the safety line and agree to counseling if she wants to go, but when she looks at the line and throws it back, well, two people dig their own holes, for different reasons.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Ignore the troll!!!!!

Do not engage....

Ignore the troll!!!!!

PS: I think about now I would consider having this thread closed due to personal attacks...

 

[karibritt01]

First, I want to say that I am really sorry that you are going through this. I hope my post doesn't come out sounding judgemental, because I truly do not mean it to be that way.

He told me the letter did take him by surprise, he did not know I was unhappy. He did realize he never told me "I Love You" but said he is not the most romantic person in the world, and that I hate everything (chocolate, flowers, jewelry). So I guess in his mind, those are the only three things you can use to express your feelings for a woman, and since I don't care for any of them, he thought he was good.

If he knows that you don't like that type of gift, then of course he stopped giving them to you. He may not have realized that you would still like a gift, just a more practical one.

My DH and I came to an understanding very early in our marriage. Since our anniversary is 2 days before Valentine's Day, we skipped Valentine's and anniversary gifts, and would take a long weekend trip somewhere. Once the kids came along, we now do dinner for our anniversary, and give the kids a Valentines gift. Not that we love each other less... just that we decided that was a better fit for our lifestyle, and it works for us. Maybe your DH had similar thoughts. That if you didn't want the typical romantic gifts, maybe you really didn't want a gift at all. Just trying to offer a different perspective.

He mentioned that I never told him the words. I said I used to say them, and said, "Yeah, way back in the beginning." Well, what do you want? i say it, and don't get a response, am I going to keep saying it, and feel rejected every time? I gave up.

Maybe giving up on saying it is part of the problem. If he never learned to express his love for you, and you no longer do so for him... he may feel that saying it isn't necessary. IMO, you should try saying it again... and letting him know that it would be nice to hear it in return.

I did give him MANY sentimental cards over the years, that said what I didn't. I have received joke cards all these years. I mentioned the cards, and he said he has given me cards. I said JOKE cards. He reminded me he gave me a sentimental card ONCE....I told him after all these years of getting a joke card, and never being told how you feel about me, I wasn't sure if the card said how you truly feel, if you just gave it to me, because I hadn't gotten one in so many years.

My DH and I are guilty of this. He gave me many sentimental cards through the years. They were sweet and all, but I don't like mushy cards. I always give him funny cards. I love him with my whole heart... so I expect him to know my sense of humor. I also expect him to know that my going to the store, reading all the cards, and picking the one that would make us laugh IS an expression of my love.

We were not arguing, we were talking. I asked him if he was happy. After a silent pause..he said he was content. Well, to me, content is not happy. Content means he has settled.

Not necessarily. Contentment may be the way he labels your current relationship - meaning not the mad, passionate romance of dating and early marriage. It is the evolvement of a marriage. I would describe myself and my DH as content in our relationship. But by that I do mean that we are moving along, comfortable with the way things are, and yes... happy. Your DH is content. YOU are not. I do agree that needs to change one way or another. But being content does not mean that he has settled in his life, or isn't happy.

Reading your posts, I'm envisioning a couple that simply forgot how to show each other that they love each other. They got so used to not communicating their feelings that they found themselves in a place where they no longer know how to communicate with one another.

I agree. But I wonder if it is not as much "forgot" how to communicate together, as much as never really learned. Counseling would help with that.

The OP stated the her DH does not tell her he loves her, does not kiss her. In other words there is a complete lack of intimacy.

Maybe it just isn't the type of intimacy that she desires. But just sharing a home and a life is in itself a form of intimacy. Disagree? Let your DH live with another woman... no hugs and kisses, no loving expressions, but share a bed and a life. There is intimacy there in the mundane, everyday life, too.

I am sad, but not devastated. I'm sad that DH is resigned without even trying. We have had a couple of more little talks, he has not tried to convince me of anything. (that he really does love me, he doesn't want to leave, we can work things out)none of that. Part of me wants to call it all off, and tell him we need to get help, but a bigger part of me is telling me this is part of the big problem. I am always the one to take the reins and get things done. This would just be another one of those times, only I don't want to do it anymore. I want for ONCE to know that he cares about something enough to make his own decision. (Like he has decided he doesn't want to leave his family, so he takes action and does what he needs to do for it not to have to happen). If he can't do that, then nothing will change. We will just go on the way we have for years, and I can't do that.

This last post is very telling. I don't think that you really want to end your marriage, but that you want it to be different. I think you are doing a disservice to yourself, your DH, and your kids to make THIS the time and event to choose to take a stand. If you want him to tell you what he REALLY feels about you, the divorce, etc... you need to say it to him! Communication is a 2-way street. From your postings, it sounds as if there are roadblocks on both ends of the street... not just his. Do not make this the time to force your DH to express himself without prompting... he doesn't know how. And if he is used to letting you make decisions and be the driver in your relationship, then it will not change without action on BOTH of your parts.

I am not saying that divorce is wrong in your situation. i just think you might need to think about it further before you get to the point of no return. PLEASE consider a counselor who is trained to draw feelings and thoughts out of people... give it a chance for the sake of your family.

 

[dennis99ss]

Not a personal attack at all. Just a comment from the other side.

This is not a surprising situation though, marriages with a child with a disability have a greater than 80% fail rate.

 

[BelleWDW]

to let a house go is one thing. To file bankruptcy is another. The first thing the lawyer said was file bankruptcy???? you need to find another lawyer.

In this economy, you can negotiate, renegotiate, tap into govt. money, etc. Plus, the bank doesn't want your house back. And, why file bankruptcy together? and screw up two people's credit?

Thinking outloud, have you thought this through? I wonder if you have been made fully aware of all of your options, and the fact that bankruptcy is not a clean slate as it once was in most cases. Under the new rules, you will likely be placed in counseling or in a payment plan rather than having the debts forgiven outright.

Frankly, I feel sorry for the DH that he has to go through a divorce, and that OP's decision is going to ruin his credit for the next 10 or more years

I agree and frankly , am shocked by this turn of events. there is no way the OP has had time to get a full evaluation of her local Real Estate situation, meet with a realator, get with Credit Counseling.

Just a couple days after writing "the letter"-you are filing for BANKRUPTCY?

 

[dennis99ss]

Hot dog. after all of my posts, I have been labeled a troll. I feel honored.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree and frankly , am shocked by this turn of events. there is no way the OP has had time to get a full evaluation of her local Real Estate situation, meet with a realator, get with Credit Counseling.

Just a couple days after writing "the letter"-you are filing for BANKRUPTCY?

I wouldn't say 'shocked', but in an unfortunate and very emotional situation, it appears that the OP has progressed very quickly without getting due counsel and thinking things thru...

Maybe the house is not their only big joint debt???
Maybe they are in a financial situation where bankruptcy is a valid consideration????

OP: I 'fully' understand your posts, your feelings, and your decision...

The Title of this thread is 'ending a marriage'....
I believe that your marriage, to you, has been over for quite a while.

You may have come here looking for advice and support about how to go about dissolving your marriage.

If that is the case, my advice would be to consult with your own lawyer, whom you trust, and do not consider any large decision, such as bankruptcy, etc... until you have given it great consideration.

I would also advise, that, if at all possible, you might turn to one or two close friends or family members for support.... because, as you can see, there will be those online on these chat-boards who will have no problems judging.

 

[sbell111]

To the OP:

Did you take any of my suggestions from post 107?

Throughout this thread, it seems like you have been wanting your husband to put himself out there, but you have been unwilling to do the same.

Yu wanted him to tell you that he loves you, but you don't tell him that you love him.

You want him to fight to save the marriage, but you are not doing so.

You want him to try counseling, but you haven't actually made an attempt at counseling.

Marriage is work. It's darn hard work sometimes, especially when you find yourself in situations like yours. However, it's unfair to expect him to do all the work.

If you meet him half way, you might find yourself in for a shock.

To 'Wishing on a Star', the only recent personal attacks have been yours against Dennis. You don't get to call people 'trolls' simply because they have an opinion that differs from yours.

 

[dennis99ss]

sound advice woat

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Frankly, I feel sorry for the DH that he has to go through a divorce, and that OP's decision is going to ruin his credit for the next 10 or more years, but, in the end, DH is going to be better off, and I would guess that OP is going to be wondering what hit her when she can't find another who is "content"

I also think it is "chicken____" as someone said, to let DH move out and surprise the kids with it when they come back home.

Funny, I never once heard OP worry about the effect her decision had on her kids.

To the OP:

Did you take any of my suggestions from post 107? no one said she had to -- it was simply that -- suggestions. I don't think OP needs to answer to you directly.

To 'Wishing on a Star', the only recent personal attacks have been yours against Dennis. You don't get to call people 'trolls' simply because they have an opinion that differs from yours.

Sorry, Sbell111 but I disagree. I think many of the things Dennis posted above are personal attacks.

OP's decision is ruining DH's credit? I believe she said they came to that decision together.

How does he know DH will be better off? Again assuming OP is the cause of ALL of the issues in the marriage.

And maybe I misunderstood, but is he basically saying in his last sentence of that paragraph that OP is already considering another husband? Maybe I misinterepreted that sentence, but who said she will ever marry again and that he will be just as unhappy as OP's DH?

He also called OP chicken ____ for letting her husband leave?. So is she supposed to chain him to the house and hold him against his will? That's not a personal attack?

And finally, why is OP being blamed for not thinking of how this will affect her children? Where did her DH ever mention considering their feelings?

And in another post, was it really necessary for Dennis to mention, not once but twice, that OP was going to figuratively emasculate her husband by chopping off his ____, so to speak?

Unfortunately, I feel Dennis is being completely one-sided in this case. I was accused of the same thing a few pages back, but I feel it was a complete breakdown of a marriage, from both sides. I don't see why anyone feels it is best to beat up on OP. It seems these two people have come to a joint decision that they don't want to save their marriage, for whatever reasons. Why can't everyone else just let that be the final decision?