Ending a marriage (long overdue update #55)

[hinodis]

I'm glad that someone posted this.

My parents loved marriage so much that they decided to do it over and over and over. Early on, I told myself that that will never be my life. I will take my vow before god and family seriously.

This has given me the incentive to work harder on my marriage. After all, this marriage is forever, do I want to merely go through the motions of marriage or do I want an awesome marriage that sets an example that I would proud for my child to follow?

Amen.

 

[NHdisneylover]

There is so much here and so many people have already said what I would much better than I can so I will limit myself to two comments.

OP--I actually knew someone whose Dad moved out while she was at summer camp when I was a kid. She had never seen her parents fighting OR trying to fix a relationship and it totally came out of the blue for her (I think we were in 5th grade). For YEARS after that she would not even spend the night at a friend's house (I changed schools and she would have me to her house often but was afraid to leave home--she had been overnight at my house many times before this). She was always convinced that there was "bad stuff" brewing that she had not been let in on and her Mom just wanted to "ship her off" for a night (or week at camp) to make some other major change. I know she felt like her parents totally betrayed her by handing all of this without giving her any heads up until it was done. I understand you are thinking having your husband move out while they are at camp is the best thing for the kids but PLEASE talk to some people (maybe school counselors? Priest? I do not know) who may have some insight into what will really be a good way to handle this for the kids. Maybe my friend had an unusual reaction and most kids would do better the way you are doing it--but I have to think that as I child I would have felt that your way of handling it indicated you did not think it really affected me much and that would have made me feel even worse than a divorce would in the first palce.

Secondly, what really stands out the most to me in the thread is that you took weeks to get up the courage to talk to your DH about the probelms you have with the marraige (and you had probably spent quite a while to work up to the point you were at when you started the thread--so really it is liekly months). When you finally did; you still left a note and only later talked. Now you expect him to process everything much faster than you did and respond to you almost immediately. I think it is fair to expect it will take him just as many weeks to figure out what to say to you as it did you to figure out what to say to him (even if he were generally good at communicating--which you know he is not).

Good luck to you, your husband and your children. I hope you whatever you all do ends up being a good choice for everybody invovled. I am sure it is extremly difficult to make these decisions.

 

[Renesmee]

OP--I actually knew someone whose Dad moved out while she was at summer camp when I was a kid. She had never seen her parents fighting OR trying to fix a relationship and it totally came out of the blue for her (I think we were in 5th grade).

Secondly, what really stands out the most to me in the thread is that you took weeks to get up the courage to talk to your DH about the probelms you have with the marraige (and you had probably spent quite a while to work up to the point you were at when you started the thread--so really it is liekly months). When you finally did; you still left a note and only later talked. Now you expect him to process everything much faster than you did and respond to you almost immediately. I think it is fair to expect it will take him just as many weeks to figure out what to say to you as it did you to figure out what to say to him (even if he were generally good at communicating--which you know he is not).

Thank you for sharing your experience. I appreciate it. Contrary to what some other believe on this thread, I am thinking of the kids CONSTANTLY. If it helps understand why I am thinking of the whole camp thing, it is because DH works nights. He leaves the house around 2PM and doesn't get home until 2-3AM. During the school year, the kids don't see him at all during the week. He tucks them in on Sunday night, they don't see him again until Saturday. (This is because he is in bed sleeping while they are getting ready for school)Most Saturdays in the spring and fall, they don't see him until late Sat. afternoon, because he gets up early to go golfing. So when the kids wake up, he is gone.
So, camp goes from Sunday to Friday. My idea was for DH and I to bring them to camp on Sunday. Friday pick up is at 2:30pm, so Dh would be working anyway, when they got home. They wouldn't be expecting to see him until Saturday, where he could be playing golf all day. So it would not be unusual for them to come home from camp to find daddy gone. He could then come over Saturday, as if he was returning from a golf outing.(I'm sure he actually would be, no pretending there) We could have dinner, and then sit the kids down and explain to them what's going on.

I understand how some people might be horrified at the thought of shipping the kids off to camp, only to have daddy move out. I just really think this is the best way to do it for US. I am going to call my son's psychologist and ask him for advice, just in case I am way off.

As for fighting, my kids do hear us fight. More so than fighting, they hear us being "flip" with each other. They get to hear him ask me if I am retarded or an idiot. (Does this surprise anyone? I'm pretty sure I put this info in my OP, go back and refresh your memory)<-<-<-<- ETA: Sorry, I just went back and re-read the first few postings, and I think I left this tidbit out. I mentioned his negativity towards the kids. (which includes calling them idiots, morons and "are you retarded?") I threatened to leave him years ago because if it, he got better at not saying it to the kids, now he says it to me. Every now and then, he slips, and he will call one of them an idiot or a moron. Oh and now I get to listen to the kids call each other idiots and morons.

OK, as for "giving him time" ..I have been reading about this all week, how unfair I am being to him, because I am just like him, and I have had weeks to think about it, ect. Tomorrow will be one week since he found out how I was feeling. We have talked more than once, and not once has he tried to convince me of anything. The fact that he has been like this for years, that is supposed to make a difference? DH doesn't typically run into burning houses, but if our house was burning down, and our children were inside, I would sure as hell expect him to run in and try to save them. If he didn't, I would. That is how it has been for 14 years.

Dennis, I just want to tell you, you are way, way WAY, off base, it isn't even funny. You have made up some fantasy situation. Half the things you say about our situation, I have no idea where you're getting it from. I suggest you go back and read EVERYTHING. FTR, Dh has NOT agreed to couseling. I asked him if I thought it would help. He did not agree to it, but then say "I don't know" He simply said "I don't know" and said nothing else about it. As for wearing the pants in the family, yes I do, and I have known it for years. It is exhausting, and I'm tired of it. Only thing is, I didn't "take" the pants from DH. (you referred to that when you said I should give them "back"). The pants were laying in the middle of the floor, and someone needed to put them on. I did, because DH certainly wasn't going to, and I have been wearing them ever since.

I'm sorry if my marriage situation has people upset. But I am the one living it, I am the one who has to decide to keep living like this, or move on. Not any of you. So, please understand, I am doing what I am doing, and if you think it's wrong, so be it.

It just amazes me when I say the reason I want out is because I have to make all the decisions, and do all the work, yet people still think I am being unfair to DH because he still hasn't shown me, AFTER A WEEK that he doesn't want this. I think, if DH was the one who was asking to end it, and I didn't want it to happen, then no matter how hard it was, I would tell him he was wrong, and that I do love him. Even if it was in a note, or an e-mail. SOMETHING. So, let's say for the sake of argument, that DH really DOESN'T love me...what do all you nay-sayers say now?

 

[NHdisneylover]

Renesmee--I just wanted to share that it could have a bad affect on the kids if he goes during camp. It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into it. I do think, since your son has a pshychologist already asking his advice is an excellent idea

I am sorry that my comment on the time issue upset you. Really I am--you have more than enough to deal with without random strangers upsetting you It just seesm to me, based only on your posts (which is all I have to go on and will never be the whole story because you just can't get it all in there) that you are kidding yourself with this issue. It seems to me that you are leaving because you have been unhappy for years and are tired of trying and feel it will best for you (and possibly all involved) if you do not make continued efforts to salvage a marraige which has felt "wrong" for years now and instead leave and move on with your life. I do not think there is anything wrong with saying that. Especially if you can be honest with yourself (and others) about not only your husband's shortcommings in the relationship but also things you could have done long ago which might have helped, but did not (because you did not realize then what long term things it would lead to maybe) so that you end knowing it did not work but it is not entirely the fault of either party (it very rarely is). It is very possibly the best thing you can do for yourself, your husband and your kids. It does sound like you have both likely been unhappy for years which is not good for anyone.
I (personally, just me) think YOU would feel better in the long run if you accept responsibility for ending it because you want to (because of the behaviours which have gone on for years) instead of trying to blame him for not responding the way you want and fast enough when you threatened to leave. I think it will make you look petty to shared friends and maybe even your children (if these reasons ever make it back to them). Honestly, one week is not very long to process a shock of this magnitude (the house is not suddenly on fire--to use your analogy--it has been smoldering for years with no one putting the flames out) and he really may not have a clue what to say or do to make it better. If you have threatened to leave him before (as you say about how he spoke to the kids) maybe he thinks this will blow over if he just keeps quiet also. Take the high and honest road and say you have to end it because you are just not happy and can't seem to make it work well after years of trying. There is nothing wrong with that. I believe you will feel better about yourself if you leave being honest about the reason to yourself and everybody else (in a nice way--never criticize him in front of your kids especially which I am sure you know).

Anyway, I am not intending to attack you I hope I am not comming off that way. It is so hard to tell in writing.

 

[Renesmee]

NHdisneylover: Thank you. I am sorry if it seems like I thought you were attacking me. Not you. I really appreciate you sharing your friends experience, and I tried to explain the time thing, because many people on this thread seem to think the same thing.

If it looks as though I am blaming DH for all of this, then I really messed up trying to tell the story. I know I have my faults. I know I could be better at communicating. Maybe my biggest mistake was letting our marriage go on like this as long as it has. But there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough. I think when I turned 40, I started to think about living out the rest of my life. (my mom died at the age of 62, her mother died at 70, my dad died at 70, his mother died at 72). Longevity is not in my family.

I do feel very guilty about going through with this. I have moments when I want to call it off, but I have a IRL friend who knows both of us very well, and she doesn't blame me at all for doing what I am doing. She even has told me I NEED to do this. (she is like my 2nd mother). The only other person I have told that knows us as a couple, is my boss, and he understands. He thinks that I have doen everything I can, and it's up to Dh to let me know he doesn't want to leave. So, the people in my life who know my DH, I have their full support.

 

[Wishing on a star]

The OP has come back one more time to answer these attacks (concerns) and I think it is time to lay off of her....

Her decision is made, and now is NOT the time to question or flame. Period. Just NOT appropriate.

About the kids going to camp..

Again, a lot of wrong assumptions, nasty judgements, and bleeding hearts...
I for one see no problem at all as using camp as an opportunity for this couple to hash it out and complete the logistics of a physical move....

What, would it be better for them to witness every single thing...
Every single pointed comment...
Their fathers bags being packed...
Their father getting in the car and driving off down the road..
I say 'bullmalarky'

It is not like their dad will be 'gone forever'...
Their dad can still be there and see them.
He can still be there to help explain, etc....

A divorce is probably going to be hard for these kids to understand and process, no matter how the logistics of his departure are handled.

OP: I see that you did finally pop back in....
But, really, for your own sake.... I think you should simply retreat from this thread at this point and focus on what you have ahead of you....
Needless to say, if you continue to comment, the judgemental nay-sayers will just continue to find fodder.

You do not owe then any explanation.
You do not owe them anything at all.

You know that you have my thoughts, and prayers, and best wishes!

 

[Renesmee]

The OP has come back one more time to answer these attacks (concerns) and I think it is time to lay off of her....

Her decision is made, and now is NOT the time to question or flame. Period. Just NOT appropriate.

About the kids going to camp..

Again, a lot of wrong assumptions, nasty judgements, and bleeding hearts...
I for one see no problem at all as using camp as an opportunity for this couple to hash it out and complete the logistics of a physical move....

What, would it be better for them to witness every single thing...
Every single pointed comment...
Their fathers bags being packed...
Their father getting in the car and driving off down the road..
I say 'bullmalarky'

It is not like their dad will be 'gone forever'...
Their dad can still be there and see them.
He can still be there to help explain, etc....

A divorce is probably going to be hard for these kids to understand and process, no matter how the logistics of his departure are handled.

OP: I see that you did finally pop back in....
But, really, for your own sake.... I think you should simply retreat from this thread at this point and focus on what you have ahead of you....
Needless to say, if you continue to comment, the judgemental nay-sayers will just continue to find fodder.

You do not owe then any explanation.
You do not owe them anything at all.

Thanks! I think I have said everything I am going to say. We can keep going around in a circle like this forever. People can say what they want, but it is what it is. No more explaining. If they don't get it, they don't have to. They can count their lucky stars that they are not married to a man like my husband, or a wife like me, and they can go on and live out their life in their happy marriage.

 

[Wishing on a star]

 

[NHdisneylover]

NHdisneylover: Thank you. I am sorry if it seems like I thought you were attacking me. Not you. I really appreciate you sharing your friends experience, and I tried to explain the time thing, because many people on this thread seem to think the same thing.

I do feel very guilty about going through with this. .

I wasn't sure if you thought I was attackign or not--just wanted to be clear that I wasn't. I am sure I did not explain myself very clearly--not easy to do in a little post, ya know?

I am sure you feel guilty (because everyone I know who has gone through this on either end does at times. Goodness, I was racked with guilt every time I broke up with a boyfriend in my younger days and THAT was nothing by comparison). But really, if you are not happy and you haev reached the point where you know you will not be happy--going through with it is probably much better than prolonging the agony. Honestly, I wish my own parents had realized that. There was a never a BIG thing (adultry, addiction, whatever) to hurt their relationship and they just didn't feel they could end it for just general unhappiness (especially because in their case--in their own way they do love each other dearly, but they do not work together) so they both ignored issues for YEARS (most of my childhood and 10 years past) before one finally got past the guilt and said no more (and it took the other 2-3 months to fully process that the "norm:" they had was not good and to even understand why this was happening and have a response; at which point it was terribly emotional BTW). They had a very rough few years then but are both happier than I remember in my lifetime now.
So I guess I am saying if you know it is time to leave then try to not feel guilty and go ahead nad leave so you can have the life you want (and eventually your husband will too and you will all be better off so then there is nothign to feel guilty for). I am probably rambling and not making sense again. Sorry.

 

[karibritt01]

If it looks as though I am blaming DH for all of this, then I really messed up trying to tell the story.

Not messed up... it is your story to tell, and there is no way we can ever know everything. Bits and pieces are all that can be told. We (most of us) only wanted to offer advice and experience based on what we know. But as a PP said... the advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I do feel very guilty about going through with this. I have moments when I want to call it off, but I have a IRL friend who knows both of us very well, and she doesn't blame me at all for doing what I am doing. She even has told me I NEED to do this. (she is like my 2nd mother). The only other person I have told that knows us as a couple, is my boss, and he understands. He thinks that I have doen everything I can, and it's up to Dh to let me know he doesn't want to leave. So, the people in my life who know my DH, I have their full support.

Your IRL friends and family are really the best ones to offer you advice. They are the ones there to see what is happening in your life, counsel you on a daily basis, etc. Most people who have posted here are not attacking, and I am sorry that it feels that way. They are really just trying to offer advice, and state a viewpoint from the "other side of the fence."

I personally hate to see a 14 year marriage w/ kids come to an end. But the reality of the situation is that sometimes that is necessary. You are the only one who can decide what is right for you. I do wish that you are able to make the decisions that are right for you, and that you will be happy once everything calms down a bit. I know your world is rocking right now with everything that is happening.

 

[Disney Doll]

I'm sorry some of us did not tell you what you wanted to hear.
I guess I don't understand why you would need support for a decision that you are so sure is the right one.
Generally when I make the decisions that I am sure are correct, I have no need for anyone to tell me I am correct.
I guess I also don't understand why, if you have the full support of people who know you & DH & are witness to the situation, that you feel you need support from strangers on the Internet.

May I suggest counselling for the children to help them throught he transition and also for yourself to figure out why you chose to remain in a loveless marriage and also to help with your own communication issues. I guess we don't really acre what happens to DH, but he could use some counselling too...whether any of you get it or not remains to be seen.

Best of luck in the upcoming months with this transition that you and your children will be going through. I hope it turns out all right for everyone

 

[Wishing on a star]

She never asked for permission or agreement...

She never asked what decision to make, whether her decision was right or wrong.

She never even entertained those who tried to be judgmental about her decison....

Good god almighty, the DIS is showing it's rear today, isn't it.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am going to talk with my husband this weekend,
.......
Just looking for support. I know this is what needs to be done, but taking that first step is just so hard.

Read it people....
From the very Original Post.
She has never asked or wondered if her decision was 'correct'
She did NOT come here for 'permission', or 'opinions, or for 'judgement'.

Give it up....

 

[Disney Doll]

My goodness Wishing, you're taking this one very much to heart and getting yourself all worked up!

She asked for support for a decision that she is positive is the right one. Again, not sure why one needs support when one is so sure one is doing the right thing, but OK.

She posted on a PUBLIC message board. Inherent in posting on a PUBLIC message board is the knowledge that there will be people who will post something that one may not want to hear, or that people will disagree, and tell you they disagree. That's the hazard of making personal information public.

And just because someone doesn't think the way you do, doesn't make them wrong. It just makes them different.

 

[Scurvy]

Good god almighty, the DIS is showing it's rear today, isn't it.

Part of it is, certainly.

OP, I'm sorry you and your husband weren't able to work things out. I hope both of you end up happier and with people more suited to you, and that your kids take this as well as you expect. Some of us on this thread clearly would do things differently, and just wanted to share our thoughts and experiences with you. I'm glad you took it as it was intended. Good luck!

 

[dchi]

I think you do deserve to be happy. I can't help but to wonder if your husband is a prideful man? Like maybe his pride is getting in the way of him asking to hold things together?

 

[DebIreland]

I'm sorry some of us did not tell you what you wanted to hear.
I guess I don't understand why you would need support for a decision that you are so sure is the right one.
Generally when I make the decisions that I am sure are correct, I have no need for anyone to tell me I am correct.
I guess I also don't understand why, if you have the full support of people who know you & DH & are witness to the situation, that you feel you need support from strangers on the Internet.

May I suggest counselling for the children to help them throught he transition and also for yourself to figure out why you chose to remain in a loveless marriage and also to help with your own communication issues. I guess we don't really acre what happens to DH, but he could use some counselling too...whether any of you get it or not remains to be seen.

Best of luck in the upcoming months with this transition that you and your children will be going through. I hope it turns out all right for everyone

Passive aggressive much?

The bold part was particularly uncalled for and snarky.

 

[Disney Doll]

Passive aggressive much?

The bold part was particularly uncalled for and snarky.

No, actually I'm generally never passive/aggressive. I don't need to hide behind passiveness or aggressiveness.

I made a statement of fact, that based on the situation we don't really need to care what happens to her husband as far as his mental health is concerned. I'm sorry if you took offense.

 

[DebIreland]

OP,

You've given this marriage 14 years. You know in your heart it's not working. I wish you the very very best of luck and happiness as you make this difficult transition.

I have so much more I'd like to say but I feel I should keep it brief cause you've already read so many posts (not to mention the fact that I'm on an iPhone on a shaky public bus ). In short I know EXACTLY how frustrating and painful it is living with someone who either remains mute or walks away when you're trying to talk, to reach out, to get answers.....

My heart goes out to you.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I'm sorry some of us did not tell you what you wanted to hear.
I guess I don't understand why you would need support for a decision that you are so sure is the right one.
Generally when I make the decisions that I am sure are correct, I have no need for anyone to tell me I am correct.
I guess I also don't understand why, if you have the full support of people who know you & DH & are witness to the situation, that you feel you need support from strangers on the Internet.

May I suggest counselling for the children to help them throught he transition and also for yourself to figure out why you chose to remain in a loveless marriage and also to help with your own communication issues. I guess we don't really acre what happens to DH, but he could use some counselling too...whether any of you get it or not remains to be seen.

Best of luck in the upcoming months with this transition that you and your children will be going through. I hope it turns out all right for everyone

You don't understand why someone needs support from strangers, yet you continue to provide your opinion about her situation? And I'm assuming by your post count you have come across many, many other people who have looked for support from strangers, so why be so surprised?

OP has already indicated she is looking for guidance from her son's doctor, so your suggestion has already been put into play. Also, you want her to find out why she remained in a loveless marriage for so long, yet you and others on this thread feel she's giving up too easily and too quickly and should stick around a little longer. Until you've been in a marriage similiar to OP's don't judge. You have no idea how you would react and deal with the situation. It's easy to say "I would never" or "I would do ..." but until you're living it, don't throw stones at other people's glass houses.