Ending a marriage (long overdue update #55)

[karibritt01]

He also called OP chicken ____ for letting her husband leave?. So is she supposed to chain him to the house and hold him against his will? That's not a personal attack?

And finally, why is OP being blamed for not thinking of how this will affect her children? Where did her DH ever mention considering their feelings?

He said it was chicken for DH to move out while the kids were gone to camp, and then have them come home to a broken home. While not really calling it chicken, I do have to agree that this may be just as hard for the kids as actually watching him move out. Maybe sit them down to talk after they get back, then let them spend the weekend with Grandma while the actual moving out happens.

And just because OP didn't mention his feelings on how it would affect the kids doesn't mean it was never discussed. There were no transcripts provided here, and we will never know all the details of their discussions. Don't be so quick to write off her DH as uncaring about how the whole situation affects anybody.

 

[sbell111]

To the OP:

Did you take any of my suggestions from post 107? no one said she had to -- it was simply that -- suggestions.

I don't think OP needs to answer to you directly.

Of course she doesn't. Nor did she have to start a thread to discuss her private junk on a public forum. However, since she has chosen to air her laundry here, it's fair that people ask her questions.

Honestly, her posts read like she hit her husband from out of the blue with "I'm getting a divorce" and hasn't for a moment truly considered that she might have the power to fix her marriage.

 

[jbcheerchick93]

I think that the OP was here just to seek comfort and support. Not everyone needs to put her down or try to tell what the "right" thing to do is.

OP- I'm happy that you ahve finally started on the road of a new life. Someday you will find true love, not just someone to be a caretaker. I will continue checking for updates to see how your family is getting along. Best of luck to all of you.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I think that the OP was here just to seek comfort and support. Not everyone needs to put her down or try to tell what the "right" thing to do is.

OP- I'm happy that you ahve finally started on the road of a new life. Someday you will find true love, not just someone to be a caretaker. I will continue checking for updates to see how your family is getting along. Best of luck to all of you.

I so agree....

The OP did not come here to ask permisson to end her failed marriage...
There have been so many personal and unfounded attacks here... calling her 'selfish' after she has served selflessy in her one-sided relationship... telling her that she needs better communication skills - when she is very obviously a competent communicator - even accusing her of wrecking her husbands credit... on and on and on.....

I am glad that the OP is intelligent and mature enough to withstand this kind of attack and to simply refuse to engage.

I will echo this above post.

OP: I wish you success and happiness and love!!!

 

[Took]

Well, seeing as how he doesn't really react to anything, why would you think he would say anything now? It seems that you are expecting him to open up all of the sudden and ask for counseling, but then again from my perception of him, he won't do that, maybe over time but not now. This is not in his personality and yet are you expecting him to? Its unlikely he actually will. It is a communication problem and he isn't opening up. You can't expect him to all of the sudden and he may be holding something back but doesn't know how to do it. It may not have anything to do with you. Give him and yourself some time to not only figure something out but to realize what needs to change. I am sure you already know what needs to be done, but I am sure he is unhappy with some of the behavior traits you have too because not everything is one person's fault in a divorce. "Well, HE has to initiate it" after he hasn't done much isn't going to solve it. Don't just wash your hands of him because he didn't initiate. There is something up here and it needs to have a closer look.

No, the OP is right. Just as you can't change an alcoholic unless he or she wants to be changed, I don't think the OP's DH can be changed unless he takes the initiative. Sometimes, desperation is just the thing to make a person admit they want to change and I think the OP may hope her DH will "wake up," especially since she's holding the olive branch of "couseling" out to him even after he moves out.

OP, I'm truly sorry to read your sad story, but I wish you the best. Whether DH seeks counseling with you or not, you may want to talk with a counselor, yourself to work through the pain I know you must be feeling. The kids may need some help, too.

 

[Disney Doll]

Well, I think we can pretty well establish that I am not a troll, and I think there may be merit in the opinions of both sides of this spectrum.

None of us live in your house OP, so none of us can really establish what exactly is going on. We are getting your side of the story, which I am quite sure is the truth as you see it. But, it might also be intersting if we could have heard your husband's perspective on this situation, as he sees it. We all might be amazed at how differently the 2 sides perceive their marriage.

There is much in your posting that points to a lack of communication, from both of you, the likes of which I have never heard of in a marriage. He doesn't say he loves you, you're writing notes to tell him you're unhappy, he doesn't respond, you talk to him, suggest counselling, he says he doesn't know if it would work (which he doesn't...sometimes counselling does and sometimes it doesn't), he doesn't give other answers you want or need to hear, next thing you know, you're at the lawyers, declaring bankruptcy, he's skulking away while the kids are at camp.

There's a whole lot of not dealing with the elephant in the room, walking away, sneaking away, avoidance, not talking. And it's on both your parts, not just his.

Now, maybe you're just both done with this mess. Maybe you feel like he doesn't care and he feels like you don't care. Maybe the apathy of both of your regarding saving the marriage is too much to overcome. But I can't help but think that when he goes to tell people and they say "what happened?" that he is going to say "A couple of weeks ago she wrote me a note telling me she was unhappy, we talked about it once, she suggested counselling, I told her I wasn't sure it would work, now we're filing for bankruptcy, and getting a divorce". And POOF!, a 14 year marriage is over.

In any event, if this is what you think is best, then I guess you need to go with it. I just hope your decisions are the corrcet ones. Best of luck to you.

 

[dennis99ss]

first of all. i am a guy. Guy's point of view.

Honestly, her posts read like she hit her husband from out of the blue with "I'm getting a divorce" and hasn't for a moment truly considered that she might have the power to fix her marriage.

ditto, and, her comments seem to indicate a level of frustration and anger that has been simmering for a while, which is never good, because it sometimes clouds things when it finally blows up.

He said it was chicken for DH to move out while the kids were gone to camp, and then have them come home to a broken home. While not really calling it chicken, I do have to agree that this may be just as hard for the kids as actually watching him move out. Maybe sit them down to talk after they get back, then let them spend the weekend with Grandma while the actual moving out happens.

And just because OP didn't mention his feelings on how it would affect the kids doesn't mean it was never discussed. There were no transcripts provided here, and we will never know all the details of their discussions. Don't be so quick to write off her DH as uncaring about how the whole situation affects anybody.

Si, Si and Si.

but, in the end, DH is going to be better off, and I would guess that OP is going to be wondering what hit her when she can't find another who is "content"

I don't see my comment as a personal attack. The grass is always greener, but, unfortunately, sometimes when you jump the fence, the grass is green because there is a septic tank underneath it. My comments, based on how the OP indicated she communicated, or lack thereof, with DH, and that she always lead and he always followed, (although he tried to be romantic but was shot down early on which gives me the implication that this is probably not the only thing he tried but was stopped at) gave me the impression that OP ruled the roost and the DH, I am guessing, went along with it in the spirit of harmony. Hence, my opinion that, he may be better off and she may find that what she had was pretty nice, and "content". I'm sorry, i don't see that as a personal attack. I see it as an opinion on the situation that may be harsh as to the OP, but certainly supported by the comments and implications of the comments from the OP.

And in another post, was it really necessary for Dennis to mention, not once but twice, that OP was going to figuratively emasculate her husband by chopping off his ____, so to speak?

Maybe its a guy thing, but, if I were to go home, and tell DW things that I wanted to do, talk about issues, address concerns, open myself up, etc. and every time I did so, I was cut short, yes, I think guys would understand that that is laying them on the table, and having them cut off. From the comments, tone and implications in OP's writings, I have the impression that this is what happens, or at least happened in the marriage. On a personal note, if i brought home flowers (which I do) jewelery (which i do) cards, etc. and every time I did so, I was told that those items just were nothing, I would feel as if mine were cut off.

Sorry about the figure of speech, but, i think married guys, divorced guys, guys in a relationship, and just guys having any dealings with another human being understand the connotation. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[diznygirl]

There is much in your posting that points to a lack of communication, from both of you, the likes of which I have never heard of in a marriage. He doesn't say he loves you, you're writing notes to tell him you're unhappy, he doesn't respond, you talk to him, suggest counselling, he says he doesn't know if it would work (which he doesn't...sometimes counselling does and sometimes it doesn't), he doesn't give other answers you want or need to hear, next thing you know, you're at the lawyers, declaring bankruptcy, he's skulking away while the kids are at camp.

There's a whole lot of not dealing with the elephant in the room, walking away, sneaking away, avoidance, not talking. And it's on both your parts, not just his.

Oooh! I thought the same thing.
Marriage counseling might have helped them learn how to communicate, but it's too late for them now.

 

[dennis99ss]

There's a whole lot of not dealing with the elephant in the room, walking away, sneaking away, avoidance, not talking. And it's on both your parts, not just his.

Disney Doll you can come into my Troll hut anytime. ITA

 

[BelleWDW]

next thing you know, he's skulking away while the kids are at camp.

.

This is the part that really bothers me. It sounds as if the kids return from camp right before school starts to face a dad who abandoned them. Thats what it will look like to them.

Most marriages that fall apart-the kids see parents trying to work things out before it ends

 

[rie'smom]

I really appreciate everyone trying to put a different perspective on it, by sharing their marriage experience. It is just so hard to understand my situation if you don't know my husband. I am not giving just my side of the story, I am trying to explain how it is.

We went to see a lawyer today about the house. We can't sell it, because we owe more thna anything we can get for it..so we made the decision to file a bankruptcy, and let them foreclose on the house. It's going to stink, having a bankruptcy on our credit, but that only lasts so many years, then our credit can be repaired. (please, no advice about this, it is already done.) Now that we know what the house situation is going to be, DH is going to move out. The kids are going to a sleep away camp the week after next, so we are not telling them anything until after they get back. We don't want to stress them out while they are at camp. They don't need to be worrying about us, when they should be having the time of their life at camp. So, DH will move out while the kids are at camp, I think that is the best way to do it, so they don't have to be a witness to him leaving.

I am sad, but not devastated. I'm sad that DH is resigned without even trying. We have had a couple of more little talks, he has not tried to convince me of anything. (that he really does love me, he doesn't want to leave, we can work things out)none of that. Part of me wants to call it all off, and tell him we need to get help, but a bigger part of me is telling me this is part of the big problem. I am always the one to take the reins and get things done. This would just be another one of those times, only I don't want to do it anymore. I want for ONCE to know that he cares about something enough to make his own decision. (Like he has decided he doesn't want to leave his family, so he takes action and does what he needs to do for it not to have to happen). If he can't do that, then nothing will change. We will just go on the way we have for years, and I can't do that.

His leaving could have one of two end results. One, he leaves and realizes he doesn't want to be on the outside, so we get counseling, and work things out, or two, he leaves, and while he is out, he realizes that he wasn't "content" in the marriage after all, and he finds he is happier. So, just leaving could be the beginning of the end, or it could be the start of a new beginning for us. I just know that I am all done with calling the shots as to how things are. He needs to be the one to decide how he wants to live his life.

It could have other results:

You might realize that you gave and gave and he took and took.

You might realize that you have so much energy because you're not having to invest yourself so heavily in the relationship and getting nothing in return.

You might realize that you're happier not being in the marriage.

He might realize what he lost and want you back and you might say," Thanks but no thanks."

Best of luck to you!

 

[karibritt01]

OP... in an earlier pst you mentioned that everything would be amicable, and that no one was angry. Then later you posted about hiring his/hers lawyers. My suggestion to you, since it is amicable and you are having financial issues, is to hire a mediator to help you sort out details. In doing so, you pay one person to sit down with both of you, come to fair decisions about everything, and draw up the paperwork to be signed off on by the courts. It will cut down on expense and keep things more civil than a divorce lawyer ever would.

 

[manning]

Time for confrontation !!!!! Let's try an experiment. Why not, nothing to lose.

Now, get in front of him, in his face as close as you can. Look him square in the eyes. Then in the most convincing voice you can muster say " I love you". Then kiss him.

If you really love him go to the next step...SEDUCE HIM!!!!

If he doesn't respond then you know you have a dead fish.

 

[Corwin12]

My suggestion to you, since it is amicable and you are having financial issues, is to hire a mediator to help you sort out details.

Excellant point. To the OP: (another guy's perspective) I see nothing unreasonable in the expectations you have placed on your husband.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Time for confrontation !!!!! Let's try an experiment. Why not, nothing to lose.

Now, get in front of him, in his face as close as you can. Look him square in the eyes. Then in the most convincing voice you can muster say " I love you". Then kiss him.

If you really love him go to the next step...SEDUCE HIM!!!!

If he doesn't respond then you know you have a dead fish.

I totally disagree. She's already said the only time he touches her is during sex. Don't give him that....it won't fix anything. Sure, it's an important part of a HEALTHY relationship but from what we've heard, this is not a healthy relationship.

 

[dennis99ss]

well, manning, think of this.

dh has just been hit by a 2x4 in the last couple of days/weeks. would he wonder what the unterior motive is?

i know, devil's advocate,

but, to take your suggestion, OP, lock the doors, turn off the tv, stand in DH face, and say, "I want to save this marriage, and I know you want me to change, and btw, I want you to change. I will tell you my needs of you, and you tell me your needs of me. I promise to work on your needs if you promise to work on mine."

"I promise to set aside 10/20/30 minutes, whatever, every night, to talk to you where I can tell you the efforts I am making to meet your needs. You can tell me what efforts you are taking to meet mine.

Then, when the parties meet in the middle, rock the house (with the tv on loud so the kids don't hear.) It may mean more since both would be trying to get back what they think is lost but may just be buried.

 

[BeachGirlFLA]

Dennis, that's a much better suggestion...if she wants to save the marriage. But she may already be done with it and if so, I don't judge her b/c of that....I can think of plenty of marriages - including my own parents' - that should have ended long ago. My parents have many of the same issues that this marriage seems to have along with definite emotional abuse by my father. According to her, he's never hit her but since he was physically abusive to me, I'm not 100% sure that's true. BUT due to the emotional abuse, I've been telling her that she should leave since I was 11 (I finally gave up.) Sometimes, children can see these things more clearly than we think.

 

[AlleyKat]

His leaving could have one of two end results. One, he leaves and realizes he doesn't want to be on the outside, so we get counseling, and work things out, or two, he leaves, and while he is out, he realizes that he wasn't "content" in the marriage after all, and he finds he is happier. So, just leaving could be the beginning of the end, or it could be the start of a new beginning for us. I just know that I am all done with calling the shots as to how things are. He needs to be the one to decide how he wants to live his life.

It could have other results:

You might realize that you gave and gave and he took and took.

You might realize that you have so much energy because you're not having to invest yourself so heavily in the relationship and getting nothing in return.

You might realize that you're happier not being in the marriage.

He might realize what he lost and want you back and you might say," Thanks but no thanks."

Best of luck to you!

rie'smom-Amen!

 

[hinodis]

I think the OP and her DH have not worked on their marriage .......ever. It is sad to see marriage vows taken so lightly. OP how hard have you tried to save this marrriage? I remeber when I got married 21 years ago and the priest said, what God has joined together let no man put asunder. Till death do we part..... OP, if Jesus walked into your house right now and asked you, have you done everything you can to keep this marriage together? What would you say??

 

[sbell111]

I think the OP and her DH have not worked on their marriage .......ever. It is sad to see marriage vows taken so lightly. OP how hard have you tried to save this marrriage? I remeber when I got married 21 years ago and the priest said, what God has joined together let no man put asunder. Till death do we part..... OP, if Jesus walked into your house right now and asked you, have you done everything you can to keep this marriage together? What would you say??

I'm glad that someone posted this.

My parents loved marriage so much that they decided to do it over and over and over. Early on, I told myself that that will never be my life. I will take my vow before god and family seriously.

This has given me the incentive to work harder on my marriage. After all, this marriage is forever, do I want to merely go through the motions of marriage or do I want an awesome marriage that sets an example that I would proud for my child to follow?