Ending a marriage (long overdue update #55)

[Tiggerlover91]

I have an update.

Things didn't go as I had planned. I planned on talking to him, for once in our marriage, having a heart to heart talk. That didn't happen. For weeks, everyday I would say "Today is the day" then, when the opportunity was right, I couldn't open my mouth. I would say "tomorrow" then the same thing would happen. I couldn't do it. This went on everyday until Saturday. I finally decided to write him a note. The note was not in place of a talk, the note was telling him we need to talk, and then I explained everything in the note. How I am not happy, how I am 41 years old and I have never heard the words "I love you", how I know he must be unhappy, how we need to figure out the next step, ect. I told him that for years I was planning on leaving when our youngest graduated from HS in 9 years, but that would put me at 50 years old, and why do I need to be 50 to find happiness again?

So, I left the note on his pillow Saturday, early in the evening. I even planned on not being a chicken, and waited for him to come in the room to see it. I planned on sitting there while he read it, then go right into a discussion. That was not to be. He didn't come in the room, and the longer I waited, the more cold my feet got, and I chickened out. I left the note on his pillow, then went and found something to keep me busy.

He read the note Saturday night.

It was a three page note.

He has yet to mention it to me.

I poured out my heart and soul, tell him how I have not been happy for years and why, and he has nothing to say? If anything, I was hoping he would at least try to defend himself against the accusations I made about him not loving me. The thing that boggles my mind, is, it's not like he has stopped talking to me. That I might understand. He still has normal conversations with me. As if the note never existed.

I am going to ask him to talk about the note this morning. I will be calling a lawyer, to find out what we can do about the house that neither one of us can afford on our own. I am going to encourage him to call a lawyer. I opened the door a crack, now I guess I have to open it all the way so we can get through it.

Thank you all for your support.

Oh wow. I don't know what else to say except hang in there.

 

[lisaviolet]

Renesmee

You know - I'm not on the community board that often. But your post truly touched my heart. And it was one that I put in my subscribed threads. And every single time I opened it up and saw it there I thought of you and wondered how you are doing with everything. And hoping that you both had some kind of breakthrough while you were off.

to both of you.

And best wishes to you and your choices.

With love,

Lisa

 

[horseshowmom]

Like the other poster, I wanted to talk about different communication styles. I am your frustrating "mute." Sometimes it can take me hours to put together a DIS post, about complex but unimportant topics. And this is dealing with strangers. Can you imagine how long it would take me to gather my words to talk about something serious with someone I was married to?

This is where counseling might help. Give you both an opportunity to figure out what your communication styles are; and how you can work with each other. If he is silent because he just wants to avoid is one thing, silent because he is a thinker before he is a talker is something else. A counselor might be able to help with a plan, words he can say to let you know he heard you but is not ready to respond, a schedule where you could say your piece, and then give him a little time to process and later he could come back and respond.

Very good post for thought.

OP, only you know what is best for you, but I know that I would want to go through counseling. A good counselor may be able to help both of you build a bridge. If nothing else, you will know that you tried everything you knew to do.

 

[Serena]

OP, I know you two are unhappy, but considering you both sound like you have a problem communicating, I would think you could be more understanding.
Not that I am flaming you, I am just trying to figure out how to make it work. You two have been together for too long, something had to have gone right.
This conversation should have happened 13 years ago. It didn't, that is ok. You two liked each other enough to stick it out with no communication at all. That takes a lot of ______ (something, I don't know) I don't know how you did it this long. But you did. There is something holding you two together.

If you truly are just done and want to start over, I totally understand. Not feeling love is horrible. Maybe I am a romantic, but for some reason I think if you both had counseling, it may not be over.

Good luck in whatever you decide and in your future.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP, I am so glad to hear your update.

As I had suspected, and tried to point out to others who want to just simplify things and try to flame you for not communicating... As you just stated... You simply CAN"T have a conversation with a mute brick wall....

I can certainly tell from your post that you have NO difficulty at all understanding and communicating your thoughts and feelings!!!!

Those who do not have any experience or knowledge with somebody with these kinds of neurological/emotional deficits simply may not understand.

If your husband says he is 'content', and is not willing to put forth any action or effort (counseling, addressing his deficits, etc....) Then you have to look within yourself, and move forward with a decision that is right for YOU...

Hugs

 

[Scurvy]

OP, I am so glad to hear your update.

As I had suspected, and tried to point out to others who want to just simplify things and try to flame you for not communicating... As you just stated... You simply CAN"T have a conversation with a mute brick wall....

I can certainly tell from your post that you have NO difficulty at all understanding and communicating your thoughts and feelings!!!!

Those who do not have any experience or knowledge with somebody with these kinds of neurological/emotional deficits simply may not understand.

If your husband says he is 'content', and is not willing to put forth any action or effort (counseling, addressing his deficits, etc....) Then you have to look within yourself, and move forward with a decision that is right for YOU...

Hugs

But. . . she did have a conversation with him last night.

And a few of us do have experience with people who don't communicate much (including one poster who says she is like the OP's husband) which is why we have been sharing our thoughts - so the OP could get another viewpoint. It's certainly an interesting assumption that the OP's husband has "neurological/emotional deficits". I think the only thing we know for sure is that he doesn't communicate the same way that the OP does. Perhaps you are letting your own experiences color your reactions to the OP's situation, just as many of the rest of us are.

 

[sbell111]

We talked last night.

I told him we need to talk about things, and he asked me if I had a "master plan?". There was no anger, and, just like everything else in our marriage, I am the one to make the final decision. He finds out I am not happy, and he wants to know "the" plan. He didn't try to defend himself against what I had said. I say it's over, so it's over.

He told me the letter did take him by surprise, he did not know I was unhappy. He did realize he never told me "I Love You" but said he is not the most romantic person in the world, and that I hate everything (chocolate, flowers, jewelry). So I guess in his mind, those are the only three things you can use to express your feelings for a woman, and since I don't care for any of them, he thought he was good.

He mentioned that I never told him the words. I said I used to say them, and said, "Yeah, way back in the beginning." Well, what do you want? i say it, and don't get a response, am I going to keep saying it, and feel rejected every time? I gave up. I did give him MANY sentimental cards over the years, that said what I didn't. I have received joke cards all these years. I mentioned the cards, and he said he has given me cards. I said JOKE cards. He reminded me he gave me a sentimental card ONCE....I told him after all these years of getting a joke card, and never being told how you feel about me, I wasn't sure if the card said how you truly feel, if you just gave it to me, because I hadn't gotten one in so many years.

We were not arguing, we were talking. I asked him if he was happy. After a silent pause..he said he was content. Well, to me, content is not happy. Content means he has settled. I asked him if he thought counseling might help us...another pause....and he said "I don't know." I waited for him to expand on that, but there was a few minutes of silence. A few times during the conversation, I was ready to tell him to forget it, we will just continue on like this, since he said he was content. But I couldn't do it. I need to start making myself happy, and not everyone around me. If he doesn't want to fight for the marriage, and is resigned to it being over, then maybe he can move from contentment to happiness himself.

So, the talks have started. Now that we have had the initial talk, talking from now on will be easier for me. Probably not from him, but he will answer questions I ask him...from what was discussed last night, he will probably be the one to move out. I do know this will be amicable. He is not angy, and I am just sad. There is no need for anything to get ugly.

Thank you to everyone who has supported me through this.

Warning to Renesmee:

My post is predicated on the belief that you deep down are in love with your husband and would like to stay together in an improved relationship. If this is not true, don't bother to continue reading this post.

Reading your posts, I'm envisioning a couple that simply forgot how to show each other that they love each other. They got so used to not communicating their feelings that they found themselves in a place where they no longer know how to communicate with one another. Truthfully, most of us have been in your situation to some extent.

Here's one of my many personal stories that your posts reminded me of:

My wife once told me that roses make her a little sad because they soon die. With the intention to not make her sad, I stopped giving her roses. It was a couple years later that I learned my mistake. We were at dinner with friends when she lamented that I never gave her roses any more. I never talked to her about why I stopped and she didn't mention that she missed them. Long story short, she now gets roses again.

It strikes me how you translated his responses. When you asked him if he was happy and he replied (after a pause) that he was content, certainly he could have been trying to communicate with you that while it is true that the relationship is not at it's best, ending the relationship would be worse.

When you asked him if he thought counseling would help, he thought about it and replied that he didn't know. Isn't this merely an honest answer? After all, who can guarantee that counseling will work for anyone.

In some ways, I'm much like you and your husband. I prefer to ignore arguments than to have them, most of the time. I'm not that comfortable in personal conversations. I'm not naturally expressive regarding my emotions. (Yes, my childhood was a touch screwed up.) However, I've learned that I aught not show this side of me to my wife. Instead, I try to be a bit touchy and to always tell her that I love her. It's work for me, but it's important work. You and your husband nee to learn how to do this.

In my opinion, this situation need not be the kiss of death in your relationship. However, you will both have to learn how to communicate your feelings and show one another your love on a daily basis. Couple's counseling can go a long way in helping you do this. You might find that the two of you could, over time, build a terrific relationship.

Since the doors to conversation have now been opened, why don't you do these things:

1. Tell him that you love him and that you don't want to have your marriage ended, if it can be improved.
2. Ask him if he loves you.
3. Ask him to enter into counseling with you.
4. Make an agreement with him that you will each tell/show the other that you love each other every single day.
5. Accept without complaint gifts that show his love even if you think that they are stupid.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

Warning to Renesmee:

My post is predicated on the belief that you deep down are in love with your husband and would like to stay together in an improved relationship. If this is not true, don't bother to continue reading this post.

Reading your posts, I'm envisioning a couple that simply forgot how to show each other that they love each other. They got so used to not communicating their feelings that they found themselves in a place where they no longer know how to communicate with one another. Truthfully, most of us have been in your situation to some extent.

Here's one of my many personal stories that your posts reminded me of:

My wife once told me that roses make her a little sad because they soon die. With the intention to not make her sad, I stopped giving her roses. It was a couple years later that I learned my mistake. We were at dinner with friends when she lamented that I never gave her roses any more. I never talked to her about why I stopped and she didn't mention that she missed them. Long story short, she now gets roses again.

It strikes me how you translated his responses. When you asked him if he was happy and he replied (after a pause) that he was content, certainly he could have been trying to communicate with you that while it is true that the relationship is not at it's best, ending the relationship would be worse.

When you asked him if he thought counseling would help, he thought about it and replied that he didn't know. Isn't this merely an honest answer? After all, who can guarantee that counseling will work for anyone.

In some ways, I'm much like you and your husband. I prefer to ignore arguments than to have them, most of the time. I'm not that comfortable in personal conversations. I'm not naturally expressive regarding my emotions. (Yes, my childhood was a touch screwed up.) However, I've learned that I aught not show this side of me to my wife. Instead, I try to be a bit touchy and to always tell her that I love her. It's work for me, but it's important work. You and your husband nee to learn how to do this.

In my opinion, this situation need not be the kiss of death in your relationship. However, you will both have to learn how to communicate your feelings and show one another your love on a daily basis. Couple's counseling can go a long way in helping you do this. You might find that the two of you could, over time, build a terrific relationship.

Since the doors to conversation have now been opened, why don't you do these things:

1. Tell him that you love him and that you don't want to have your marriage ended, if it can be improved.
2. Ask him if he loves you.
3. Ask him to enter into counseling with you.
4. Make an agreement with him that you will each tell/show the other that you love each other every single day.
5. Accept without complaint gifts that show his love even if you think that they are stupid.

OP, if you still love your husband, and want it to work, this is one of the rare times I"m on the side of sbell11

 

[dairyou]

I think it's great to have a man's perspective. My husband perfers not to talk either but there are times where I tell him "It's time to communicate.." he rolls his eyes and chuckles because he knows he would never come up to me and say that.

I wish you only the best.

Deb

 

[manning]

Tell him that you love him and that you don't want to have your marriage ended, if it can be improved.

Ask him if he loves you.

Ask him to enter into counseling with you.

Make an agreement with him that you will each tell/show the other that you love each other every single day.

Accept without complaint gifts that show his love even if you think that they are stupid.


I like the above (from a man)

Whenever I stayed with an aunt and uncle I could hear them talking at night in their bedroom. They did this until the day he died. It was the best marriage I ever saw.

 

[horseshowmom]

OP, if you still love your husband, and want it to work, this is one of the rare times I"m on the side of sbell11

Same here.

 

[newtodis]

It was a whirlwind romance, one that ended up with me being pregnant two months after we met. I offered him the door, but he did the 'right" thing by me. He moved in with me when the baby was 3 months old, and a year later when I found out I was pregnant a second time, I decided I wasn't going to be someone who just lived with a guy and had babies. I told him we could get married or he could move along...his response after thinking about oit for a few minutes was "I guess we'll get married."

I was young and having babies, and I thought I loved him. I guess it was enough for me to just have him there, and I wasn't having to raise the babies on my own.

Oh and I do have a HUGE problem with his negativity around the kids, and I go off on him about it all the time. I have no problem "telling" on him either, when we go to my son's psychologist appointments. He has gotten better, but not enough in my opinion. The thing I worry about if we seperate, is I won't be there to stop him from saying negative things to the kids like I am now.

I have an update.

Things didn't go as I had planned. I planned on talking to him, for once in our marriage, having a heart to heart talk. That didn't happen. For weeks, everyday I would say "Today is the day" then, when the opportunity was right, I couldn't open my mouth. I would say "tomorrow" then the same thing would happen. I couldn't do it. This went on everyday until Saturday. I finally decided to write him a note. The note was not in place of a talk, the note was telling him we need to talk, and then I explained everything in the note. How I am not happy, how I am 41 years old and I have never heard the words "I love you", how I know he must be unhappy, how we need to figure out the next step, ect. I told him that for years I was planning on leaving when our youngest graduated from HS in 9 years, but that would put me at 50 years old, and why do I need to be 50 to find happiness again?

So, I left the note on his pillow Saturday, early in the evening. I even planned on not being a chicken, and waited for him to come in the room to see it. I planned on sitting there while he read it, then go right into a discussion. That was not to be. He didn't come in the room, and the longer I waited, the more cold my feet got, and I chickened out. I left the note on his pillow, then went and found something to keep me busy.

He read the note Saturday night.

It was a three page note.

He has yet to mention it to me.

I poured out my heart and soul, tell him how I have not been happy for years and why, and he has nothing to say? If anything, I was hoping he would at least try to defend himself against the accusations I made about him not loving me. The thing that boggles my mind, is, it's not like he has stopped talking to me. That I might understand. He still has normal conversations with me. As if the note never existed.

I am going to ask him to talk about the note this morning. I will be calling a lawyer, to find out what we can do about the house that neither one of us can afford on our own. I am going to encourage him to call a lawyer. I opened the door a crack, now I guess I have to open it all the way so we can get through it.

Thank you all for your support.

I can answer this! Yesterday, readingthrough some of the replies on here, a few of them had me tearing up. Some of the things that were said about if I was an adult, and have kids, I should be able to have a conversation. I couldn't answer the "why can't you just talk to him?" I just knew it has always been hard to have a serious conversation with him.

Well. last night, I now know why. I will talk, and be met with long bouts of silence. If I ask him something that he doesn't want to answer, he just becomes mute. It is very frustrating, and I think the breakdown occured over the years because I just didn't want to go through that. It was easier for me to not even bring it up. Some things that needed to be discussed, I would ask what we were going to do about an XYZ situation, he would not have an answer, so what would happen, when it became time to deal with XYZ, I would get angry and yell and force him to give me an answer.

OP this could be me writing this - thank you for sharing this! I do appreciate this.

 

[southernbelle5672]

I don't know what is the right solution, but somehow I hope that you guys can be happy together.

I just always hate to see a marriage ended but if it doesn't work I don't blame you or your husband.

It takes two to make a marriage work and two to dissolve a marriage.

 

[BelleWDW]

I did give him MANY sentimental cards over the years, that said what I didn't.

I have received joke cards all these years. I mentioned the cards, and he said he has given me cards. I said JOKE cards. He reminded me he gave me a sentimental card ONCE....I told him after all these years of getting a joke card, and never being told how you feel about me, I wasn't sure if the card said how you truly feel, if you just gave it to me, because I hadn't gotten one in so many years.

.

Wow. Just found this thread.

My DH and I are long married, happy and he rarely says THE WORDS "I love you", NEVER gives a sentimental card (yuck) -I LOVE the funny cards he gives me. A lot of men are like that. I think you have this Movie Cinematic version of how guys are supposed to behave-and in real life , its not like that.

 

[horseshowmom]

Wow. Just found this thread.

My DH and I are long married, happy and he rarely says THE WORDS "I love you", NEVER gives a sentimental card (yuck) -I LOVE the funny cards he gives me. A lot of men are like that. I think you have this Movie Cinematic version of how guys are supposed to behave-and in real life , its not like that.

I know what you mean. Honestly, even though my husband does give them to me from time to time, I've always considered cards to be a waste of good money (I would never tell him that though).

I do think people can be very different in expectations. I know that some people feel like anniversaries, birthdays, and Christmas should be nice present occasions and are upset with their husbands if they don't do that. It's never been a big deal to me. It's okay that others think one way, and I think another.

It would be wonderful if this couple could get on the same wave length.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Ohhhh good grief.....

Let's just flame the OP some more...

Like she EVER indicated that she 'expected' nice gifts etc....
In fact, she admitted quite the opposite... that she had indicated to her husband that she was not excited about generic 'hallmark' (cards and chocolates) type of shows of affections.....

OP: I see that you have gone absent here...
I suggest that this is a good idea...

Do NOT get drawn in here by well meaning but very misguided and judgemental posters.


I wish the best for you, and for your DH...

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Wow. Just found this thread.

My DH and I are long married, happy and he rarely says THE WORDS "I love you", NEVER gives a sentimental card (yuck) -I LOVE the funny cards he gives me. A lot of men are like that. I think you have this Movie Cinematic version of how guys are supposed to behave-and in real life , its not like that.

I know what you mean. Honestly, even though my husband does give them to me from time to time, I've always considered cards to be a waste of good money (I would never tell him that though).

I do think people can be very different in expectations. I know that some people feel like anniversaries, birthdays, and Christmas should be nice present occasions and are upset with their husbands if they don't do that. It's never been a big deal to me. It's okay that others think one way, and I think another.

It would be wonderful if this couple could get on the same wave length.

I think both of you need to read her original thread. This is not about cards or gifts.

 

[Mom2Nick]

Wow. Just found this thread.

My DH and I are long married, happy and he rarely says THE WORDS "I love you", NEVER gives a sentimental card (yuck) -I LOVE the funny cards he gives me. A lot of men are like that. I think you have this Movie Cinematic version of how guys are supposed to behave-and in real life , its not like that.

Your marriage should not be the measuring stick for other people's marriages.

Just because your husband is like this does not mean all men have to be like this (mine is not thank goodness!) and just because you are ok with it doesn't mean other women have to be ok with it too.

 

[horseshowmom]

I don't think that either I or the other posters said that this was about cards or gifts (although the OP did mention the cards herself). All we have said was that there has been a communication breakdown in this marriage. Before abandoning the marriage, it would be worth at least trying counseling to see if they could learn to reach each other. I also fail to see where there are any flames for the OP in those statements. She has many years and her children invested in this marriage. How is it flaming her to suggest that she try counseling?

 

[BelleWDW]

Your marriage should not be the measuring stick for other people's marriages.

.

I think everyone on this thread, giving their opinions, uses the experiences of THEIR marriage in giving opinions.

Lots of women jump into divorce because their marriage isn't exciting or fun filled as their early days. Then the majority of them take a few steps back on the economic ladder.