ECV and Buses

[mrsv98]

Hi! I have never posted on this board but I think it is just the place to find an answer I need. We are taking a family trip in Feb and my (then) 84 yo grandma will be joining us for a few days. I have already researched ECVs and will rent one but now we would like to know about the transportation situation. How do we deal with the ECV on the buses? Can they be placed on and off and who does it, us or the driver? If the driver puts it on for us, do we tip? TIA for all your help!

 

[Nanajo1]

The person using the ECV usually is the one who drives it onto the bus with the driver guiding. The ecv is backed onto the lift and the driver raises the lift up. The ECV is then moved into place and secured. The person can stay in the ECV or move to a seat. Busses that have ramps are newer. The ECV is driven up the ramp then maneuvered into place. I have heard of family members loading the ECV for those that are unsure of themselves. After a couple of times it becomes easier to do. I would strongly suggest a trial run with an ECV at your local Wal-Mart etc. IMO it is not difficult to drive but it is a motor vehicle and should be respected as such.

 

[SueM in MN]

Welcome to disABILITIES.
I just want to add a little to Nanajo's answer.
The bus driver will secure the ecv after it is on the bus and you don't need to tip.
If you think of any other questions, just go ahead and ask.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

(A note on Terminology... CM's refer to electric scooters (and sometimes electric wheelchairs) as ECV's... Electric Convenience Vehicles... )


For the most part, all of Disney Transport is fully accessible, in theory. I say that, because there are certain situations that make things a bit difficult.

Ferryboats, FW/WL Cruisers, and Friendship Cruisers are all wheelchair and ECV (scooter) accessible. However, if the water level becomes too low, this is subject to change. (If the water level does become too low, talk to a cast member, they'll arrange transportation for you.) Note that the Launches to the GF and Poly from the MK are not accessible unless the wheelchair can be folded.

The Monorail is fully accessible, however, at the Magic Kingdom and TTC, there are large ramps that one must go up and down. Most ECV's have no problem with these ramps, however, a low battery might encounter trouble. (Note that going from Resort to Epcot, and Epcot to Resort or Express monorails, you do have to go down, and then back up. Elevators are provided at Grand Floridian, Polynesian, Contemporary, and Epcot.


As far as Busses go... Our entire fleet is wheelchair and ECV accessible. However, some busses are temporarily non-wheelchair busses, because of lift problems, or whatnot. Out of our 241 guest busses, probably about 5-10 of them have broken lifts at any given moment. So, 99% of the time, you won't have to worry about that. If a bus does come, and the lift doesnt work, the driver will radio the coordinator, and they'll send out another bus.

Another thing to note, if you're staying at a multi-stop resort, and when the bus gets there... if there are guests sitting in the fold up seats, where the wheelchair straps are, the driver cannot force them to move. Pretty much usually, if there are other seats available, most people will automatically move without being asked. However, there are a few stubborn people out there. If all the seats are filled, the driver cannot ask those guests to give up thier seat. However, due to Federal ADA Law... if the bus cannot accomodate the guest travelling in the wheelchair due to the seats being unavailable, the driver technically cannot board anyone else from that particular stop. The bus is considered "Full." However, at the next stop, the driver is allowed to board passengers again. Once again, this is a Federal ADA (Americans With Disabilities) Act Law... not Disney policy. I had some guests calling me some non-Disney words the other day because I was unable to board them... they didn't seem to understand the law. I felt bad, but there was nothing I could do.

The RTS busses are standard floor busses, and use a hydraulic lift in the rear stairwell. Guests back thier wheelchair/ECV into the lift, and it brings them up like an elevator. The guest then backs the wheelchair/ECV into the designated area, and the cast member will secure the wheelchair. Although one can remain in the wheelchair/ECV (seat belts are provided if desired), Disney recommends that a guest in an ECV transfer to a regular seat if possible.

The new Nova LFS low floor busses that we use, have a ramp located in the rear doorway. The bus will tilt itself, and then the ramp will be deployed. Standard wheelchairs may board forward, but all electric wheelchairs and ECVs MUST board in reverse for safety reasons. (A lot of wheelchairs/ECV's are not balanced properly, and I've seen a lot tip backwards when on the ramp... this is why we ask to board in reverse)

Once on the bus, the driver will secure the wheelchair or ECV into the bus. If you remain in the wheelchair or ECV, there is a seat belt available, but it is optional. However, by declining the seatbelt, you release Walt Disney World of all liability. Typically, if the wheelchair is secured down properly, it's not going anywhere, however, each situation is different. As for an ECV, I always highly recommend transferring to a regular seat for your safety. Most ECV's can not be secured down properly... they weren't designed for it.

Also note... The driver is technically not allowed to assist in the moving of the ECV/Wheelchair for liability reasons, although a lot of drivers will offer assitance. And I know a lot of you want to help us out by setting the straps yourself, however, please leave that one to us. We know where the best areas are to strap (Higher the better).

One more note... If needed, you can have someone else drive the scooter into the bus and park it... and we'll be glad to let the guest needing the scooter to ride the lift up...

Pretty much all of the bus drivers are all VERY friendly and helpful when it comes to guests requiring special assistance. We try to make things as easy as possible. I always hand out "Honorary Bus Driver" cars to those in ECVs, telling them that if they can park the ECV in the bus, then they're good drivers.

As for stops... Most stops are quite easy to get in and out of. However, a few stops were designed by Imagineers who were high on Pixie Dust, and while still acessible, they're not too friendly. Those stops are:
Contemporary (hard to get the bus up to the curb)
Polynesian (Must drive bus into bush, and have guest exit onto side road in bush)
Old Key West - Hospitality House (again, must go into bushes... Other stops are fine)
Some All-Stars (Big light pole, or bushes in the way, must move bus forward)
Stop #7 at Studios - Impossible to get bus into load zone
MK Stop at the Beach Club - Possible... but akward, when bus is "properly" parked, rear door opens into bushes. Must stop short.

I've been working with my manager on trying to solve these situations, however, at this current time, I have no power, and neither does he, in these matters. But, I will keep trying.


Some Tips that I might add...

Once you rent the scooter, set some time aside to "Practice"... I know it sounds corny, but pretend you're on a skills course, and have to do some tough driving. The reason why I suggest this is that all too many times, guests rent the scooters, and don't know how to use them, or how to drive them.

Please be courteous to those around you. In reference to those above, I've had folks behind me in line who would "gun it" and then ram my ankles (ow!).

While we're on the topic... 99% of the scooters have a power setting. Turtle -> Bunny. I can't stress this enough... SLOW AND STEADY WINS THE RACE. I've had guests put thier ECV in Bunny mode, zip up the ramp, into the monorail, and out the other side. When navigating tough areas, PLEASE, use the turtle setting. Ultimatly, I have found that guests using Turtle are able to park thier ECV 10x quicker in the bus than those using Bunny.

Okay... I think I got it all...

 

[Nanajo1]

Tyler,
Thanks for an expert's advice. I have a couple of questions. I have seen signs on the inside of busses that when up front state "these seats must be made available to disabled, H/p riders" and back by the folding seats a sign that states" these seats must be vacated for w/c and or ECV passengers" or something like that. This was last March. Are they not correct? Also I was told to drive my ECV up the bus ramp. How are folks not use to driving an ECV doing backing uphill? As slight an incline as it is I can see some spooked folks! I back my power chair up my van ramp so I don't anticipate a problem.
Again, thanks and welcome to the disAbilities board.
PS I think you may hear from Lisa about lumping ECVs and power chairs together!

 

[SueM in MN]

Thank you, Tyler for the really complete transportation report. I'm also curious about Nanajo's question. We've been using WDW transportation with a wheelchair in annual visits for a long time (I think 1987 was our fist visit with DD (daughter) in her wheelchair. I have noticed those signs on other public transportation too.

Then some additional info:

If you remain in the wheelchair or ECV, there is a seat belt available, but it is optional. However, by declining the seatbelt, you release Walt Disney World of all liability. Typically, if the wheelchair is secured down properly, it's not going anywhere, however, each situation is different.

As you mention, the seatbelt is optional - because buses are not required to have seat belts. It is part of the restraint system and without it, the wheelchair or ecv might not be going anywhere, but in an accident or sudden stop, you will.

And I know a lot of you want to help us out by setting the straps yourself, however, please leave that one to us.

While I agree that the actual attachment of the straps should be left to the driver, we have found that the driver often can not see that a belt has become twisted, so the person in the wheelchair or a member of their party should let the driver know if they see a strap is twisted.
A suggestion to drivers: When disconnecting the straps, take a few extra seconds to straighten out the straps before stowing them away. It takes a lot less time to do it then than to have to untangle them later. We have actually got onto a bus and had to get off again without riding because the straps were too twisted to be used. (My DH [husband] hasn't been trained to do this hint every time yet in our van.]

We know where the best areas are to strap (Higher the better).

This is true for rented wheelchairs or ecvs because the drivers are probably much more familiar with those chairs than the people using them are. However, is someone has their own wheelchair, they often know where the best, safe tiedown spots are. On every trip, we have several drivers attach tiedowns to the swingaway footrests on DD's wheelchair and/or to the seatback supports. These are not safe places because they are not a part of the wheelchair frame.
If people own their wheelchair, I suggest that they find out where the safe spots are before their first bus trip. Especially if they have an unusual or custom wheelchair. Many people have their own vans or their wheelchair travels regularly on school or other buses, so they already know where to tie them down.
I actually mark the safe tiedown spots on DD's wheelchair with bright tape before our trip. It's very easy to tell the driver, "They safe points are marked with pink tape. You can attach in any of those spots." Bus drivers have thanked me for doing that. It makes things much quicker than having to figure it out on an unusual wheelchair.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by Nanajo1
I have seen signs on the inside of busses that when up front state "these seats must be made available to disabled, H/p riders" and back by the folding seats a sign that states" these seats must be vacated for w/c and or ECV passengers" or something like that. This was last March. Are they not correct?

Actually, there's been a lot of discussion about those signs. In the past, those signs have been the standard signs that you will find on any transit bus in the US. They probably come standard from the manufacturer. At any rate, they read: "Priority Seating: Seats below this sign must be offered to wheelchair passengers." Now, at Disney it is imprinted in our brains that we always place the person first... the term "wheelchair passenger" IMHO, isn't proper. But of course, no one really noticed these signs, and they've been on our busses for years. A few months ago, I went to my managers in regards to them... and as of the other day, we now have new semi-friendlier signs. The new signs are lighter in color, easier to read, more visible, and say something to the effect of, "these seats must be offered to guests with wheelchairs"... I'll get the exact wording when I head into work, but it's a bit more friendly. As for the word "Must" I'm not an expert on ADA law, perhaps someone could clarify this for me... but from what I am to understand, we can ask, however we cannot force anyone to move or give up thier seat. The sign might just be there to help clear the seats... *shrug*

Originally posted by Nanajo1
Also I was told to drive my ECV up the bus ramp. How are folks not use to driving an ECV doing backing uphill?

Originally, we allowed folks to drive up the ramp in forward. However, there was an incident that I'm probably not allowed to speak of. Suffice to say, the low floor busses became non-accessible busses for about two weeks... and then it was decided that we could allow elecric wheelchairs and ECVs under the stipulation that they board in reverse.

From what I am told, the reason for this is that a lot of ECV's and electric wheelchairs (mostly the rented ones) are not balanced properly, and during some situations will have a tendancy to tip backwards when travelling up the ramp. Now, I do understand that a lot of power chairs are properly balanced, and specifically have special wheels in the back to prevent such a tip over... however, Disney policy is now such so that unless it's a manual push wheelchair... it must board in reverse.

Surprisingly, most people don't have too much trouble backing thier wheelchair/ECV/scooter/power chair/whatever it may be onto the low floor bus... and once inside the bus, they can just back into the space, and slide the front end into it...

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by SueM in MN
A suggestion to drivers: When disconnecting the straps, take a few extra seconds to straighten out the straps before stowing them away.

One thing I always do is make sure my straps are always properly straightened, and out of the way. All too often, I'll get on a bus, and the straps will be hanging loose, and causing a trip hazard, so I will always make sure they are untangled, and then link them together, under the seat, making sure they remain untangled, out of the way, and ready for immediate use.

Originally posted by SueM in MN
I actually mark the safe tiedown spots on DD's wheelchair with bright tape before our trip. It's very easy to tell the driver, "They safe points are marked with pink tape. You can attach in any of those spots." Bus drivers have thanked me for doing that. It makes things much quicker than having to figure it out on an unusual wheelchair.

That is a great idea! Often times I spend a lil bit searching for a safe place to attatch the hooks or straps...

 

[Talking Hands]

Tyler
Please note that the term Electric Convenience Vehicle is offensive to many who use ECVs. A better term is electric conveyance vehicle. The term convenience has distinct implications as far as attitude towards those who must use them. (ie iit is a convenience not a need)
And any person who calls my Power wheelchair will be quickly and strongly corrected if I hear it.
I find most of the bus drivers extremely hard to deal with because they persist in talking to my back even after I inform them I am hard of hearing. That is very fustrating. Please if someone informs you they are hard of hearing assume they need to see your face in order to understand your speech.

 

[Talking Hands]

I find the new policy that electric wheelchairs must back up the ramp on the nova bus distressing. This in effect makes me back up blind with no help if I am alone. If I am going to the side I may not realize it until my wheelchair is already going off the side. This puts me in a very dangerous situation. BTW my wheelchair is properly balanced and the recommendation of the manufacturer was never to back up a ramp.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by Talking Hands
Tyler
Please note that the term Electric Convenience Vehicle is offensive to many who use ECVs. A better term is electric conveyance vehicle. The term convenience has distinct implications as far as attitude towards those who must use them. (ie iit is a convenience not a need)

Thank you for informing me, I totally understand what you are saying, and I shall remember that for future reference. I'm sure you know that in no way did I mean any offense, however, I do apologise.

Out of curiousity... I have noticed that there are many many different types of electric wheelchairs, power chairs, scooters, whatnot... Is there one general term that could be used to describe all of these? Previously at Disney, we've just used the term "ECV", as a general description... however, typically we've been told it stood for the prior rather than the latter. I don't mean to sound ignorant... but rather, I'm just trying to improve my communication...

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Originally posted by Talking Hands
I find the new policy that electric wheelchairs must back up the ramp on the nova bus distressing. This in effect makes me back up blind with no help if I am alone. If I am going to the side I may not realize it until my wheelchair is already going off the side. This puts me in a very dangerous situation. BTW my wheelchair is properly balanced and the recommendation of the manufacturer was never to back up a ramp.

I can totally understand that your wheelchair is balanced properly, and that the manufacturer reommends going up in forward... however, Disney's lawyers probably don't understand that, and as such the new policy doesn't allow for it. When the new policy took effect, all the drivers had to sign a form that stated the following.

Guests travelling with ECV's, electric wheelchairs, power chairs, etc, have the following options:

1.) Board the bus up the ramp in reverse
2.) (If possible) Step out of the chair, and have someone else guide it up the ramp. If no one is sitting in it, it may go up in forward.
3.) Wait for an RTS bus with a lift.


Unfortunetly, that is how our current policy is... I will talk to my management and see if I can get some answers on situations like yours, where it would be advantageous to board in forward.

 

[JudithM]

Tyler, thank you so much for the great information about Disney transportation. I use an Electric Convenience Vehicle while I am at WDW - it is a convenience for me . I am thinking of renting one off property for our next couple of trips, so your info is appreciated.

 

[Talking Hands]

Tyler
Unfortunately waiting for a second bus can be a problem for me since the interpreted shows I want to see are only done one time per day at the park where the interpreters are that day. Waiting for the second bus often means I don't see the show I am going to see. Happened to me at the All Stars in June. I never did get to see Diamond Horseshoe that day.

Having multiple handicaps can be a real problem when meeting guests needs especially when one is hearing and you depend on interpreters. They have a strict schedule.

Btw I have had drivers load able bodied passengers and then tell me there is no room for me.
I've had them try to force my wheelchair up the ramp on a Nova bus and nearly topple the chair and injure me after I told them the ramp was too steep for my chair and I would wait for one with a lift.
I've had drivers pass me by, stop drop passemgers and not pick me up (bus was nearly empty)
And at Ft Wilderness had them refuse to wait while I was unloaded from on bus to get on the next.
I also had them slam the doors on my 2 daughters and drive off without them.

I've been in a wheelchair about 10 years now and have gone to WDW about 50 times over that time so I have had plenty of experience with the bus system.

Recently we have so many hassles that my husband has choosen to drive the car instead of my having to put up with the buses.

Best driver was the one who drives for the Backstage Magic Tour.

Most people refer to the Scooters as scooters and the wheelchairs as either electric wheelchairs or power wheelchairs. That is the people who use them regularly.

 

[Nanajo1]

My power chair is my power chair. My ECV is my scooter!

 

[SueM in MN]

I have noticed that there are many many different types of electric wheelchairs, power chairs, scooters, whatnot... Is there one general term that could be used to describe all of these?

If you want to use one general term that includes all of these, you could call them Mobility Devices.
For definitions and a little primer:
ECVs, Electric Convenience Vehicles, Scooters, Electric Scooters, Electric Cartsall refer to the same thing. I've also heard some people call these Electric Wheelchairs. The name "Electric Convenience Vehicles' was made up by the companies that make them -probably someone thought it was a good term for marketing. As Lisa mentioned, some people feel it's an offensive term because it implies that people don't need them, it's just convenient to use them. Most people know what you mean by just saying ecv or scooter, so doing that avoids any problems with names. People who use ecvs can usually walk, but need assistance for going distances. They are usually driven with a "tiller" type control and have a simple seat. They usually have pretty simple controls (Rabbit and turtle like you mentioned earlier) and most people can learn to drive them with little practice. A lot of people rent them when they go to WDW because they would not be able to walk the distances involved in going to the parks. Some people own their own and bring it to Orlando. Because ecvs are designed to break down into pieces that fit into a trunk, many experienced ecv users might not have used theirs on a bus before. Here's a picture of a common type of ecv.

Power wheelchairs are also powered mobility devices, but they operate a lot differently than scooters. In my experience, people don't usually refer to them as "electric wheelchairs". Power wheelchair have much more sophisticated, computerized controllers. My DD's, for example has 4 different modes that can have 12-14 different things set (it's late, I can't think of the right term). The driving device attached to the controller depends on the needs and skills of the person using it. The most common is a joystick of some type, but it could be controlled by a head array (a head rest with control switches built in) or even a sip and puff (a type of switch that operates with a device similar to a straw). A power wheelchair has to be set up for the individual who will use it, so you can't just rent one unless you already own one and provide all the set-up instructions to the company. It takes more skill and practice to use a power wheelchair than an ecv and most people who use power wheelchairs either can't walk or walk with so much difficulty that they really can't get around without their power wheelchair. The seat might be pretty simple or very specialized, based on positioning needs. Most people driving power wheelchairs are experienced with having them transported in vans or buses (power wheelchairs don't come apart and can only be transported in a wheelchair lift van or bus. Here's a common power wheelchair.

Some wheelchairs resemble ecvs in the way the wheels are arranged (and maybe the seat looks a little like an ecv), but they are power wheelchairs. The main thing you will notice that tells you it is a wheelchair is the controller. Here's one of those type of wheelchairs (I'm sorry, Lisa. I did get a Jazzy picture, but I couldn't remember what model you had.):

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

Sue, I greatly appreciate your detailed explanations of mobility devices. Thank you


Talking Hands... I do apologise greatly for your past experiences with our Bus system, but I do want to let you know that the majority of us drivers are not like that at all. Myself, and all the drivers I know, are always doing our best to create the magic in any way possible.

 

[Talking Hands]

Sue I think the easiest way to distinguish is if it has a controller ( some don't but those are few) on the arm and nothing out front it is a power wheelchair. If it has a tiller in front it is a scooter.
My Jazzy is the 1103. A mini Jazzy. Very similar to the one you showed but not quite.


Tyler, I hope I meet you on one of my trips. Oh I never refuse the searbelt. I may refuse to back up a ramp but never the seatbelt.

 

[SueM in MN]

The links to the chair similar to Lisa's chair and the ecv disappeared! I tried to pick a picture where you could see the controller. I guess Pride Mobility links don't stay put.

Any way, if it has a tiller, it's almost always an ecv. There is a type of power base that can be added to a manual chair that has a front tiller.
A power wheelchair will almost always have a controller off to the side even if the person is using a head array, switch, or sip and puff. Those are access devices for the controller.

 

[WorknFires]

Wow! I've learned so much! I can't imagine someone being so rude as to not vacate the section designed for the chairs and/or scooters but unforntuately there are rude people in this world even at the happiest place on earth. I was wondering how many w/c or scooters does each bus have room for?
I'm fighting with my hubby who's having back surgery next week about renting a push wheelchair or scooter for our trip in 43 days. He (typical male) feels he'll be "FINE" by then regardless that the doctor has told him either use a chair or take a break in the afternoon, which I know he won't do. My 65 year old mother feels that she would benefit (i.e. last longer) if she were able to alternate riding and walking with him so I feel strongly that we'll be renting a chair. I don't mind pushing either of them and feel it will be easier for transportation and storage reasons to get the standard push chair altho I'm sure they would prefer the scooter so as not to "inconvenience" me.
Also, since both of them will be able to stand in line, I'd hate for someone to "borrow" my rented wheel chair from the stroller section while we're in an attraction. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanx In Adv, Cheryl