NEW Rejected Offers Thread

[Brian Noble]

At the same time I don’t want to potentially burden them with a timeshare they can’t get rid of .

This is not a thing.

You are not forced to inherit property you do not want. You are able to disclaim it. This idea is one of the lies that the "Timeshare Exit" industry propoagates to get people give them thousands of dollars for the advice: "Default and go into foreclosure."

 

[WinterSolider]

Why would anyone do this given the booking tool allows modifications? I don't think this is a thing. It is certainly not a thing *I* do. It is much more sensible to book a home resort reservation at 11, and try to modify it at 7.

Book-then-modify doesn't work as well when your home resort has a heavy points chart. A 150 point owner books Riviera for 160 points, requiring them to borrow 10, then switches to Animal Kingdom Loge which only costs 116 points, leaving them with 10 points that they borrowed only to hold their dates.

This works a lot better when your 7 month switch is from a cheaper resort to a more expensive one (making OKW the gold standard for this use case in my opinion, despite the high dues).

This may not matter if you have a giant pile of points or if you're very savvy at managing banking and borrowing, but I can see it tripping up the average owner.

 

[Brian Noble]

Then you book what you can afford, and switch to what you want. It might make a difference of a day or two at the margins. It is at the margins, and swamped by larger effects. Or you borrow the 10, and if you can swtich put those 10 borrowed points into the AKV reservation, and bank an extra 10 forward. Plus, the resale owner who owns 150 is not booking the 160 point stay without borrowing anyway.

I just don't think it matters. I also don't think there is a horde of people wanting to switch from RIV to AKV and no one is buying resale RIV who might have otherwise done that routinely; they would buy something else instead. The problem with RIV is not the resale lock-in. The problem with RIV is that the Preferred/Standard point ratios are wrong (and too high). And that's setting aside the problem with DVC generally, which is the studio/1BR point ratios are wrong (and too low).

I stand by my assessment: boogeyman.

 

[Brian Noble]

Thinking about this some more, the resale lock-in might end up helping RIV owners overall. The lock-in will lower the cost of resale points. If they drop low enough, 1BRs become viable options for more people, potentially increasing demand for them.

That's totally speculative, and we will just have to wait and see. But, "lock-in is bad for booking" is also speculative, so we will just have to see.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Then you book what you can afford, and switch to what you want. It might make a difference of a day or two at the margins. It is at the margins, and swamped by larger effects. Or you borrow the 10, and if you can swtich put those 10 borrowed points into the AKV reservation, and bank an extra 10 forward. Plus, the resale owner who owns 150 is not booking the 160 point stay without borrowing anyway.

I just don't think it matters. I also don't think there is a horde of people wanting to switch from RIV to AKV and no one is buying resale RIV who might have otherwise done that routinely; they would buy something else instead. The problem with RIV is not the resale lock-in. The problem with RIV is that the Preferred/Standard point ratios are wrong (and too high). And that's setting aside the problem with DVC generally, which is the studio/1BR point ratios are wrong (and too low).

I stand by my assessment: boogeyman.

Agree studios are too low and 1bd are too high.

7m availability, walking, and reading about people trying to slam 5-6 people (with small kids) into a studio show that to be true.

I have a renter who just added a 6th person to their upcoming reservation in a couple of weeks (4 adults and two small kids) and a part of me wishes I could cancel the reservation and refund their money because I think overloading the rooms harms the membership at large. However, I of course honored the signed rental contract.

That family really should have a 1bd.

 

[WinterSolider]

Agree studios are too low and 1bd are too high.

7m availability, walking, and reading about people trying to slam 5-6 people (with small kids) into a studio show that to be true.

I have a renter who just added a 6th person to their upcoming reservation in a couple of weeks (4 adults and two small kids) and a part of me wishes I could cancel the reservation and refund their money because I think overloading the rooms harms the membership at large. However, I of course honored the signed rental contract.

That family really should have a 1bd.

Disney kind of shot 1 bedrooms in the foot from the beginning because until very recently, most resorts slept 4 or 5 in a studio and 4 in a 1-bedroom, and the 1-bedroom pull-out mattress quality was abysmal. 1 bedrooms could only really sleep 2 people comfortably until the Murphy beds became the norm. Most families aren't going to even dream of spending double for significantly LESS sleeping capacity.

I'm a huge cheerleader for more diversity of accommodations, and not just the super-premium bungalow type choices. I like that the Poly Longhouse Studios are enormous and expensive, and that the Fort Wilderness Cabins are weird and cheap, and that Riviera and Disneyland experimented with smaller studios.

Two things I would love to see and would absolutely add on Direct for:

1. King Studio
2. Family Suite (1 king, 2 queens or 1 queen and a bunk bed, no kitchen or living room)

 

[jolynne28]

Disney kind of shot 1 bedrooms in the foot from the beginning because until very recently, most resorts slept 4 or 5 in a studio and 4 in a 1-bedroom, and the 1-bedroom pull-out mattress quality was abysmal. 1 bedrooms could only really sleep 2 people comfortably until the Murphy beds became the norm. Most families aren't going to even dream of spending double for significantly LESS sleeping capacity.

But if 1 bedrooms were reasonable, we'd all be eating less in the parks by Disney's logic. I've seen a video of a woman making grilled cheese on an ironing board at POP before, so people's money saving tactics at Disney vary wildly. When we do a 1 bedroom, it's not exactly so that I can whip up dinner in those tiny kitchens. It's so we can spread out and easily store the food/drinks we are already bringing in even if we're in a studio. It might cause us to spend a little less on food in the parks, but that amount doesn't come close to the difference in points between a studio and 1BR for us.

 

[WinterSolider]

But if 1 bedrooms were reasonable, we'd all be eating less in the parks by Disney's logic. I've seen a video of a woman making grilled cheese on an ironing board at POP before, so people's money saving tactics at Disney vary wildly. When we do a 1 bedroom, it's not exactly so that I can whip up dinner in those tiny kitchens. It's so we can spread out and easily store the food/drinks we are already bringing in even if we're in a studio. It might cause us to spend a little less on food in the parks, but that amount doesn't come close to the difference in points between a studio and 1BR for us.

Attractive 1-bedroom options would sell more contracts, and it takes a lot of scrambled eggs to offset the lost revenue of selling more contracts.

It's not like grocery shopping is convenient at any of the Walt Disney World properties and the cadence of a WDW vacation is very go-go-go for most families, so I don't think there's any real risk of people materially altering how much they decide to cook for themselves. The hardcore cheapskates making grilled cheese with an iron are always going to be there.

 

[Brian Noble]

There are two ways to look at the studio vs. 1BR question.

1: How many heads-in-beds does it hold?
2: What is the vacation experience?

I happen to look at it via perspective #2. Most "regular" timeshare owners do as well. Many DVC owners look at it via #1. I can't decide if that's a failure of Disney marketing, or just the nature of the Disney parks experience.

I can tell you that when I traveled with kids, a 1BR was the absolute minimum I would ever consider, and strongly preferred a 2BR. Blame the nookie tax.

 

[TheThousandthSoul]

But if 1 bedrooms were reasonable, we'd all be eating less in the parks by Disney's logic. I've seen a video of a woman making grilled cheese on an ironing board at POP before, so people's money saving tactics at Disney vary wildly. When we do a 1 bedroom, it's not exactly so that I can whip up dinner in those tiny kitchens. It's so we can spread out and easily store the food/drinks we are already bringing in even if we're in a studio. It might cause us to spend a little less on food in the parks, but that amount doesn't come close to the difference in points between a studio and 1BR for us.

A grilled cheese with an iron that belongs to the Resort... Good Lord... Have Mercy...

 

[WinterSolider]

There are two ways to look at the studio vs. 1BR question.

1: How many heads-in-beds does it hold?
2: What is the vacation experience?

I happen to look at it via perspective #2. Most "regular" timeshare owners do as well. Many DVC owners look at it via #1. I can't decide if that's a failure of Disney marketing, or just the nature of the Disney parks experience.

I think it's the latter. We do Disney vacations and we do relaxed pace home-away-from-home vacations, but our instinct is not to combine the two. When we're at Disney we want to be out experiencing the parks, with some downtime at the resort but downtime at the resort is not the focus.

I can tell you that when I traveled with kids, a 1BR was the absolute minimum I would ever consider, and strongly preferred a 2BR. Blame the nookie tax.

Don't get me started on the slatted doors separating the bedrooms from the living area at Aulani. We've considered booking lock-offs for exactly this reason.

 

[AstroBlasters]

There are two ways to look at the studio vs. 1BR question.

1: How many heads-in-beds does it hold?
2: What is the vacation experience?

I happen to look at it via perspective #2. Most "regular" timeshare owners do as well. Many DVC owners look at it via #1. I can't decide if that's a failure of Disney marketing, or just the nature of the Disney parks experience.

I can tell you that when I traveled with kids, a 1BR was the absolute minimum I would ever consider, and strongly preferred a 2BR. Blame the nookie tax.

 

[Sandisw]

But the bond gives you the principle back no? Whereas here the underlying asset is deteriorating year after year. I think once there’s 2-3 newer resorts at WDW riveria will be in big trouble . I don’t understand how people are buying this direct or resale

I bought both direct and resale because it’s my favorite resort, and I didn’t buy DVc with any expectation of resale value if I have to sell.

I consider anything we get back as a bonus because the value is in its use. It’s been well worth it to own there.

 

[Sandisw]

They make a difference to direct buyers by altering the supply and demand dynamics for bookings.

A restricted resort is likely to have a more competitive home resort booking window because all the resale owners can *only* book that resort and will not be keeping their powder dry to book something else at 7 months.

So all the Riviera Resale people cram into Riviera at 11 months, making it harder for Riviera Direct people to book their own resort than if those Riviera Resale people had other options.

Very few resale points out there and RIV resort view studios and 2 bedrooms are already hard to get.

And, I think that it has been reported that it takes a long time to see a higher ratio of resale to direct. I personally think it will take a long time to even have enough resale points to even make a dent.

Plus, once a direct contract is sold, and becomes restricted, any future sale doesn’t impact the ratio. My resale 125 points are already in that pile so if I sell, it doesn’t add any additional resale points to the mix.

So, not something we’d know unless someone is tracking RIv sales to see if the person was original owner.

Having said that, I think anyone who buys DVC should realize that earlier booking is always better. Those buying unrestricted resorts such as CCV for studios, BWV for Resort or BW view and AKV for Value or CL are already dealing with it.

 

[WinterSolider]

Having said that, I think anyone who buys DVC should realize that earlier booking is always better.

Yes, I 100% agree and it's contributed almost single-handedly to me no longer flying Southwest Airlines. I don't like having a hotel booked without a flight and Southwest's flight schedule comes out way too late for my liking.

 

[jolynne28]

Attractive 1-bedroom options would sell more contracts, and it takes a lot of scrambled eggs to offset the lost revenue of selling more contracts.

It's not like grocery shopping is convenient at any of the Walt Disney World properties and the cadence of a WDW vacation is very go-go-go for most families, so I don't think there's any real risk of people materially altering how much they decide to cook for themselves. The hardcore cheapskates making grilled cheese with an iron are always going to be there.

with you.

A grilled cheese with an iron that belongs to the Resort... Good Lord... Have Mercy...

I’m sure there was some parchment paper involved

 

[AstroBlasters]

Very few resale points out there and RIV resort view studios and 2 bedrooms are already hard to get.

And, I think that it has been reported that it takes a long time to see a higher ratio of resale to direct. I personally think it will take a long time to even have enough resale points to even make a dent.

Plus, once a direct contract is sold, and becomes restricted, any future sale doesn’t impact the ratio. My resale 125 points are already in that pile so if I sell, it doesn’t add any additional resale points to the mix.

So, not something we’d know unless someone is tracking RIv sales to see if the person was original owner.

Having said that, I think anyone who buys DVC should realize that earlier booking is always better. Those buying unrestricted resorts such as CCV for studios, BWV for Resort or BW view and AKV for Value or CL are already dealing with it.

Resale could be ROFR’d and then resold as direct. That would impact the ratio.

RIV will be our first test case of how aggressive they play that.

 

[AstroBlasters]

with you.

I’m sure there was some parchment paper involved

Just bring a George Forman grill or something like that and pickup some non-stick spray….

 

[VGCgroupie]

Just bring a George Forman grill or something like that and pickup some non-stick spray….

Back in our non dvc studio days where I was very picky what my son ate we traveled w/ a hot plate and a pan/pot. Totally against the rules but I was only making food for him quickly not for a whole family

 

[gsdweller]

I can tell you that when I traveled with kids, a 1BR was the absolute minimum I would ever consider, and strongly preferred a 2BR. Blame the nookie tax.

We have stayed in studios less than 10% of our trips. With or without kids.