Earn BIG money with your DVC points (and MY cash nights)

[tjkraz]

The DVC rules do specifically state that the 25% cash discount can only be obtained if the member is staying in the room. Whether that is strictly adhered-to is another issue. I've read posts from people who said that they were refused the cash discount when trying to book it in another's name.

 

[tjkraz]

Does the DIS board really condone this kind of thing by ommiting regulations that would prevent it?

You'd have to pose that question to a moderator, or perhaps someone higher up the ladder. My guess is that changing the rules would only be a minor annoyance to people who follow this practice.

I could think of several easy ways to circumvent the types of rules you are proposing. Again, in the interest of not planting seeds in others' heads, I won't elaborate.

And then there's eBay. Right now this forum is regarded by many as THE place to come to rent points. If The DIS tries to restrict the types of posts that are allowed, another site will likely rise to fill the voide. Then sites like Allearsnet and Mousesavers will just start to steer people to eBay or an alternative site.

 

[Quadman]

You'd have to pose that question to a moderator, or perhaps someone higher up the ladder. My guess is that changing the rules would only be a minor annoyance to people who follow this practice.

I could think of several easy ways to circumvent the types of rules you are proposing. Again, in the interest of not planting seeds in others' heads, I won't elaborate.

And then there's eBay. Right now this forum is regarded by many as THE place to come to rent points. If The DIS tries to restrict the types of posts that are allowed, another site will likely rise to fill the voide. Then sites like Allearsnet and Mousesavers will just start to steer people to eBay or an alternative site.

Well, the question was kind of rhetorical, one to prompt some discussion.

But I do disagree with your comments about renters being steered elsewhere if restrictions were put in place on the Rent/Trade board to prevent the worst professional renters from posting as frequently as they do. How would this be a bad thing?

I agree that the DIS boards is THE place to search out points and reservations for rent. I would think that in restricting, or filtering out the professional renters would in effect reduce their market dramatically, and maybe over time even reduce the motivation for as many to do it as currently are.

If another board were to pop up to accommodate those professional renters then that would provide a nice concentrated profiteering effort for Disney/DVC to ignore…. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn’t……

Either way, the Rent/Trade board within the DIS Board community would certainly feel a little more community like, RIght now it's kind of like a nice whlesome little league baseball game with the the occasional ticket scalper wandering around…..

And we'd also have the side benefit of not having the professional renters inviting us to pay 2-3 x our member rates for room nights that the professional renter may cancel in another day or two.....

Well at least this is one way for me to check out the Royal Pacific Resort at Universal...... Sad but true.......

 

[goldilocks_63]

I'd like to stop professional renters, who book up the best times, etc....

But from another prospective, I just recently rented out last years points, because of unemployment.

It helped me, and the renter was so pleased, that they bought into DVC afterwards (just wanted to try it out first).

I have no idea how they could get rid of excessive renting.... I've heard that they monitor the usage of high point people... but for me, I really needed that option, and it had a happy ending for all concerned.

Goldi

 

[Quadman]

I'd like to stop professional renters, who book up the best times, etc....

But from another prospective, I just recently rented out last years points, because of unemployment.

It helped me, and the renter was so pleased, that they bought into DVC afterwards (just wanted to try it out first).

I have no idea how they could get rid of excessive renting.... I've heard that they monitor the usage of high point people... but for me, I really needed that option, and it had a happy ending for all concerned.

Goldi

I feel the same way you do Goldilocks....I looked and saw that the attraction of Disney would make this an easy "Timeshare" to rent/lease out on the years that we did not want to use it (Yeah, like thats going to happen). But I'm against people looking and saying "Hey, heres a way that I can abuse the system and get much more than my fair share out of the deal....." that portion of the deal thats more than fair.....that's not theirs, it mine(yours, ours).

 

[DVCconvert]

"quadman"

Untill you post pictures of those thighs of yours......many will simply just 'write you off' !

 

[Quadman]

"quadman"

Untill you post pictures of those thighs of yours......many will simply just 'write you off' !

Forgive when I say, Huh?? Maybe just over my head.....But if it will help the 'cause'...

 

[LIFERBABE]

Quadman,
Sorry you couldnt get your ressie. Yes it does stink that others hold a ressie that you could use, but they want more than you are willing to pay.

I don't think it is fair that you picked out one poster to make your example. That is not in the "spirit" of the board either regardless of how obvious it is.

This is a "free" discussion board. Why should they be tasked with the expense of filtering who's a business and who is not? I like the option of being able to rent my points, and if not here then on Ebay or yahoo groups or I'll post a flyer at work if need be. If I was the Webmaster, I would eliminate the Rent/Trade board before I tried to police it. It is not a discussion thread, so discussions are removed.

As far as Cash ressies with a DVC discount, those are not available at the 11 month window and most likely was made later. I also understood the rules to read that the member had to occupy the discounted room. If DVC is overlooking this, then that should be taken up at the next Member Update or in writing to management.

DVC wrote the POS to protect themselves, not the members, so plan accordingly.

 

[DrTomorrow]

I bought into DVC knowing that renting was allowed. In my eyes, it is a dual benefit: I can rent out my unused points, and I can rent more to make up for a one-time shortfall. I have no problem with other owners renting their points, as long as they follow the rules laid out by Disney. I do what I can - within the system - to maximize my value (day.by.day ressies, scheduling trips around AP dates, calling right at the 11/7 dates, limiting weekend stays); I don't begrudge the same to any other owner / poster.

I have no problem with any and all renters using the DIS Rent/Trade board; I hope it will be around for the next 49 years. I think it is totally unrealistic to expect the fine folks who provide the DIS (thanks, by the way!) to monitor / track / police each and every R/T board posting. I'm with LIFERBABE; I'd be afraid that, if it started to be a problem, they'd just shut it down.

I'm not even convinced that the behaviour you've mentioned (the legal parts, anyway) harms the greater DVC Owner community. 400 points out of what, 4,000,000 at a resort - trivial....

IMHO - YMMV

 

[jekjones1558]

I hear you. I was waitlisted for dates that the "frequent" poster offered and was shocked at his prices. I am still waiting for one day but refuse to encourage this type of renting, so I am not dealing with him.

 

[RWishbone]

I own 650 points at the BWV and I enjpy the planning of the trips as much as the trip itself. I have never rented points to anyone although I have exchanged points withother members and I have rented points from members.
That being said, I would not be in favor of any restrictions which would limit a members ability to rent points for cash. In my opinion, the DVC has continued to grow due in part to members who purchased points and now rent them. I think it is similiar to the regular real estate market in a way. My home has increased in value the past 10 years in part due to people who people who buy property and rent it.

 

[erikthewise]

The particular case raised by Quadman is not a case of an individual renting his/her points. This is a business that rents other people's points. They explicitly solicit other people's excess points (eg post 59). Apparently several thousand points have been rented through this business.

Whether you see this as a nuisance or a valuable service is not my point; my point is that IF the moderators of this board choose to restrict this practice, it need not impede anyone's right or ability to rent his/her own points. I agree that this board has no obligation to oversee this practice. OTOH they certainly have every right to do so, as this business is making money by using the resources provided by this board.

As far as time and effort go, that is provided by volunteers so it's up to them. But it does not appear to me that an extraordinary amount of effort would be required. Certain forums are moderated at an effort level higher than would be required here.

 

[timC]

Assume:
Investment = 400 points @$70pp = $28,000
Cashflow/yr = 400 points X ($10pp - $4 dues) = $2,400

Payback period = 11.7 years.

Not even accounting for lost interest, inflation and taxes, this already a bad investment. There really can't be that many "professionals" out there to worry about. That's probably why DVC does nothing about this... As it is, renting is simply not a viable business.

 

[Muushka]

I was noticing this activity and wrote to the webmaster concerning it. I was told that they don't see anything wrong with what certain people are doing.
Boy was I surprised. I agree with those that feel that this board is being used as a business by a few members. Totally wrong. I don't understand why a rent-per-point cannot have a restriction on the max amount in order to post on the rent-trade board.

 

[Dean]

Quadman, this is situation where you must separate your feelings and what YOU feel is right from what the rules actually say. You must also understand there are governing laws outside DVC.

First, I doubt people are booking many rooms at the member discount and renting them out. The rules in place to get the member discount is that the member must be STAYING in the unit itself. Plus I doubt it would be profitable to rent out rooms gotten at this price, even if they are weekends.

As for taking away the Rent/Trade Board, I doubt that would help much and might make things worse. You'd likely drive some people toward ebay and the like. There are a number of other non DIS options to rent points, I can think of about 9 right now that are very low cost or NO cost to list. And all would cater more to non members.

As for the ability to rent, we’ve argued this many times. I’ll try to be as factual as possible then editorialize where I feel it’s helpful or appropriate. First, the legal paperwork specifically states in several places that it is OK to rent you points. Then there are two references to limits or not renting. One refers to the fact one should not expect to buy to rent for a profit, this obviously refers to expectations and not the right or ability to rent. That leaves only one passes, that referring to commercial renting. DVC did not include a definition of commercial renting. OK, now I’ll more give my take on it. The passage about expectations obviously refers to expectation that is would be difficult to make a profit doing so and not the right or ability to rent itself. It stems from the common timeshares sales ploy of convincing people they can buy then rent out for a profit. It is my opinion that DVC would have difficulty enforcing the commercial issue as long as one is doing it “privately” and especially as long as WDW is renting them. If one hung up a neon sign, that would be different. I know agree and others disagree. And it is my opinion that it is inconsistent to take the stance one should have limited rental rights and not be concerned that Disney is renting the units for profit. I believe the ONLY questions in renting itself is what is a legally enforceable definition of “commercial” and is DVC willing to attempt to enforce it.

As for changing the rules on renting, that would be difficult. It would require a vote of the actual membership itself. Plus I feel legally they wouldn’t be able to do so. One reason I feel this way is that DVC and WDW rent out units and the courts dealing with condo’s have routinely found that when the developer or association rent, you can’t restrict owners more than the developer or association.

As for a side discussion of reserving and renting only the weekdays, my answers are the same. It’s the way the system is set up though I think it could be changed to a degree. If it were changed, it would be changed for everyone, not just renters. The longest DVC can require is a 5 day reservation but I do feel they could require for one to include Fri through Sunday as a component.

I know it leaves a bad taste in some people’s mouth when they see something for rent but can’t reserve it themselves. And while I understand the feelings, they are irrational, IMO. This is the system we bought into, legally, even if it’s not what we thought it was at the time we bought. I think of it like the class size amendment in FL, when people found out it had a cost and consequences like little or no teacher raises, they didn’t want it them but it was too late, at least unless they put it on the ballot again.

I think the practice one might be able to work on is the one of transferring points in then renting them out. Or the fact that if one transfers HH points to BCV, you can reserve BCV at the 11 month window.

When one reserves FOR ANY REASON, they are taking units away from other members, this is the nature of a floating or points system and not limited to rentals. And it is my guess that the number of units taken for rental in this manner is very small overall. They are limited by availability and the booking windows. Any member is free to call at the booking windows and reserve, even day by day if they chose. So no matter how much one rents, they are not taking away the actual ability for one member to secure their desired reservation. The fact that one’s personal situation makes it difficult for a member to reserve in advance is not, IMO, applicable to the discussion.

I’m sure you will get a lot of people supporting your concern but the legalities and POS speak for themselves as long as one understands the issues and looks beyond the borders of DVC itself. For reference, I do an occasional rental, usually about one a year. I rarely post on the Rent/Trade Board and usually only if I have something I can’t use or once when I had a rental go bad. And it amuses me that people want DVC to be more strict than the legal issues would allow and “enforce the rules” in this arena and so lax when it comes to the occupancy limits.

 

[Disney Doll]

We've been DVCers since 1997, and I have never agreed with the notion of renting points as a money-making proposition. I am glad to have the ability to do it if I get in a jam, which has happened only once in all the years we've owned, and even then, I rented to points ot another DVCer who needed just 5 more points to be able to do the reservation they wanted for their own use, so I felt good to be able to help! them out of a jam as much as they were helping me out of a jam!

That being said, since there's no hard and fast "rule" about renting or not renting points for profit and tying up reservations to do so, there's not much we can do. Not everyone has integrity or character, even when it comes to Disney.

 

[CaptainMidnight]

.... Not everyone has integrity or character, even when it comes to Disney.

Agreed.

I have a problem with those individuals who repeatedly book prime time holiday periods and auction those prime periods off through a website or other maximum profit method. I don't have a problem with occasional renting through our rent/trade board on this site, or even someone doing this on a one time basis because they know they cannot vacation this year. But individuals who rent more than they actually use the points themselves for family, friends, etc. and use these practices which block out owners from the hard to get holiday times I have a problem with. I think there is a substantial case to be made that these practices constitute commercial use and thus violate the papers we signed. However, I look to the Board and DVC leadership to determine if the practice is harmful enough to members that the commercial use clause needs to be more strictly enforced. I'm pleased with thier recent decision that 5 in a one bedroom is OK, and trust thier judgement on when it is appropriate to be more forceful in enforcing renting points as a business practice.

To those claiming that excessive for profit rental practices do not break the rules of the document we signed, I can only say that is your opinion, and nothing more, regardless of how factually you attempt to word or present your opinion.

 

[CapeCodFam]

As far as I'm aware, DVC allows members to book vacations for friends, family, the world. ( A pretty good benefit for those who are of a giving nature). For those not so giving, they rent their points from time to time. A select few, as you mentioned, are pushing their membership to the fullest extent allowed by the rules.

While the select few are distasteful to me, I don't begrudge them for operating within the rules.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I hear you. I was waitlisted for dates that the "frequent" poster offered and was shocked at his prices. I am still waiting for one day but refuse to encourage this type of renting, so I am not dealing with him.

Good luck on your waitlist jekjones!

ITA! Do I find it unsavory? Yes! But as members, we have the option to not deal with these people. I just got off the waitlist for my December dates and someone on the RTB had posted my dates for a hefty sum, but was coming up on the 31 day mark and said they would cancel on Nov 24. I called MS on Nov 24 and Voila! my waitlist came through! Coincidence or not? These people arent doing anyone any favors, for the non member, they may as well book with CRO for cash and take the safety over renting at exorbitant amounts. For members every time we rent from them it encourages this practice.

I too have transferred to members, as little as 3 points to help them complete an important ressie at the 11 month window. It does feel good to be able to help out. Some people are out for themselves not just DVC but everywhere.

My DH will be able to go to WDW with us for a few days in Dec. I only purchased MVMCP tickets for myself and 2 dh's. They are sold out for our date. I really would like for us to go as a family, but the Ebay listing I found wants $600 for 2 adult tickets! That totally rubs me the wrong way to think that we wont enjoy MVCMP as a family because some people saw a business opportunity!

 

[sandieb]

I have been reading the Boards for a couple years...I guessed I missed the discussions on using points for profit. I think that it is unfair to make reservations over holidays and peak times for rental. I wish Disney had a way to control it. After all, this is about members taking a vacation.
Sandie B