Earn BIG money with your DVC points (and MY cash nights)

[tjkraz]

We've been DVCers since 1997, and I have never agreed with the notion of renting points as a money-making proposition.

The only observation that I'll throw out is that we, as members, probably have a lot of resaons to be thankful for the ability to rent points. Reason number one would be the impact it has had on the growth of DVC. My family is a perfect example. We never would have given DVC even 5 minutes of our time for a sales presentation if not for our discovery of renting points. We had four adults going to WDW back in 2002, and had planned from the outset to just get two moderate rooms. Long story short, we discovered that we could book a Two Bedroom at OKW on rented point for LESS money than the moderate rooms. 14 months later we became members ourselves.

I've seen countless messages from people in the same position we were in: "we're renting points to check out DVC before we buy."

We'll never really know the number of new members generated by the ability to rent points, but I bet it is significant. There may not be a Saratoga Springs resort today without the sales that were indirectly generated by the rental market. And, whatever growth DVC experiences further down the road (Contemporary, off-site, etc.) will have been at least partially facilitated by the rental market.

 

[simpilotswife]

I agree that "for profit" rentals should not be allowed. Unfortunately it does not seem as though anything will be done about it.

 

[Disney Doll]

I think there is a difference between a member realizing that "gee, this year we aren't going to be able to go to WDW(how sad!)...maybe I can rent my points so someone else could use them" and "let me buy 600 points and tie up some popular reservation weeks and then hose someone who tries to rent them from me by charging a large amount of money". I agree that rentals, to a certain extent, help others realize the benefits and beauty of the DVC, and therefore should be encouraged. I just don't think they should be done constantly by a few peopel who do it for profit only. Yes, it is technically "legal", but that still doesn't make it 100% ethical.

Just MHO.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Perhaps at some point DVC will only allow ressies to be made in the contract owner's name during the holiday weeks that are in such high demand. That would eliminate the ability for profit-motivated "landlords" to hoard peak times and sell them to the highest bidder (unless they want to vacation right along with their renters!).

 

[DrTomorrow]

Perhaps at some point DVC will only allow ressies to be made in the contract owner's name during the holiday weeks that are in such high demand. That would eliminate the ability for profit-motivated "landlords" to hoard peak times and sell them to the highest bidder (unless they want to vacation right along with their renters!).

Which would also prevent DW and I from gifting our DS and DDIL (when and if) with a Christmas Honeymoon trip. The more you try to regulate, the more innocent people get caught - and the more complex it gets for MS.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Perhaps at some point DVC will only allow ressies to be made in the contract owner's name during the holiday weeks that are in such high demand. That would eliminate the ability for profit-motivated "landlords" to hoard peak times and sell them to the highest bidder (unless they want to vacation right along with their renters!).

That I would not have a problem with. But isnt that what they are doing now? Reserving prime weeks in their name and then renting them and transferring them to the renter's name?

There is no way of requlating this that would be positive for the majority of owners. I hope to have a large gathering in the next 48 years during Christmas week. That is my DVC dream. With the added regulations how would this be possible? DVC could limit you to 1 or 2 unit reservations during Premier seasons but there's goes my dream because I would need several units.

I remember when purchasing, my guide told me the story of the member whose daughter wed at WDW and he used points to pay for everyone to stay at OKW in a studio for 2 weeknights. I think he used 2 years worth of points, but the guests were thrilled!
How could we do this for our families or something similar if we try to regulate the bad apples?

So no one is saying that it is right, moral, or ethical. It is allowed because to disallow it would hurt and punish more members than the few it is trying to stop.

What DVC should do, is start doing a little one on one detective work and identify those that are conducting or appear to be conducting "commercial" activity of Prime weeks. They could send a nice reminder from the legal department of what is allowed. This may still impact the casual renter but at least the offenders would get the message. Of course our dues would go up! LOL

 

[CarolA]

If you don't like it... here is what you can do.

Get thier contact info.... Call the IRS and explain that you have reason to believe that persona A is not reporting this income. (I am willing to bet that most renters don't report the income)

 

[Dean]

Perhaps at some point DVC will only allow ressies to be made in the contract owner's name during the holiday weeks that are in such high demand. That would eliminate the ability for profit-motivated "landlords" to hoard peak times and sell them to the highest bidder (unless they want to vacation right along with their renters!).

That restriction would not be within the rules. DVC can do a special season preference list or lottery which gives them more flexibility for restrictions.

 

[Mickmse2002]

This point has been argued extensively. Let me go on the record to say I have never rented points from anyone nor have I ever rented points to anyone. Now having said that here is my two cents worth. As aggravating as it can be to not have what we want available when we want it, everyone has the same opportunity to reserve a room on points. We all have the same rights under the rules to make a reservation at either the 11 month or 7 month windows. That is the system we all bought into, it hasn't changed. You will always be in competetion with the other 85,000 members, and DVC itself, when making a reservation.

 

[Disney Doll]

I agree with you Mickmse. We all do have the same opportunity. I htink some folks feel though like the renters book up the good stuff at the 11 month window just to have it to sell, without a personal trip planned. There are times when I know 11 months in advance when I am travelling to WDW, and there are times when I don't know. If I don't know, I don't just pick a popular week and book "just in case"...I don't book until I am sure.

 

[DisneyDVClover]

Well it is in the contract that we can rent our points out so I see no real issue with it honestly.

 

[Quadman]

Manipulation of the system beyond what is being discussed here is happening I believe. As others have said there is no point in discussing the specifics on the boards as this will only encourage others. I have personally been offered combinations of cash and point reservations, with weeks to choose from offered by an individual. And if I can figure out how to make these reservations (Cash and points) many months out Im sure more devious minds have done much better.

Since I posted this topic a range of responses have been offered but the general sentiment seems to be that you can't stop it.

One of my hopes was that the board would take it upon themselves to use some kind of low effort monitoriing or restricting of the posts on the Rent/Trade board to prevent conspicious abuse (my opinion abuse, perhaps not yours...). As some others have mentioned (and I agree) the total effort required is not all that significant and this is a volunteer board, Im sure some assistance could be found among the members of DVC on the DIS.

And just so you know......We have stayed at DVC properties during our past 4 trips to Disney, and as you can see from my Sig below, our first trip to our home only takes place in April of 2005. We still have two more DVC rentals that we will visit on before that April trip. So I am a full supporter of the flexability offered by renting points, in fact we probably we not have bought without having rented first. What I am not a supporter of is professional DVC renters for profit.

And I have no problem competing with the '85 000' DVC members.....Im just not keen on competiting with the NON DVC members who are encouraged to rent one of the many reservations DVC professional renters provide to them.

 

[tinkerbee]

I remember when purchasing, my guide told me the story of the member whose daughter wed at WDW and he used points to pay for everyone to stay at OKW in a studio for 2 weeknights. I think he used 2 years worth of points, but the guests were thrilled!
How could we do this for our families or something similar if we try to regulate the bad apples?

Thats so funny because I heard the same story!!!!

 

[Mickmse2002]

And I have no problem competing with the '85 000' DVC members.....Im just not keen on competiting with the NON DVC members who are encouraged to rent one of the many reservations DVC professional renters provide to them.

I think perhaps you misunderstood the point I was trying to make. We aren't in competetion with a NON DVC renter, we are in competetion with a DVC member who reserves a block of time and then subsequently rents that time out. We all have the same opportunities, within our respective home resorts to reserve the same blocks of time. that was the point I was trying to make. You see a trend during these threads and it goes something like this: "I don't mind the 'casual' renter or rentee, that's ok and what the system was intended to provide. I don't like the 'professional' renter or non dvc rentee as this is an abuse of the system". Trying to distinguish between the two are nearly impossible.

I use to maintain that home resort wasn't really all that important because i was always able to get a reservation I want at 7 months. As DVC continues to grow and renting becomes more popular this is no longer the case and the 11 month window is becoming more critical. Plan early and reserve early.

 

[erikthewise]

You see a trend during these threads and it goes something like this: "I don't mind the 'casual' renter or rentee, that's ok and what the system was intended to provide. I don't like the 'professional' renter or non dvc rentee as this is an abuse of the system". Trying to distinguish between the two are nearly impossible.

Quadman didn't find it the least bit difficult, and neither do I.

The casual renter offers his/her own points for rental on a sporadic basis.

The professional renter deals with many thousands of points, either purchased under multiple contracts for the sole purpose of renting, or solicited from members wishing to rent, or both. S/He posts scores of rental ads, essentially operating a business somewhat similar to those that handle timeshare resales, only dealing with rentals.

Whether or not one finds this activity objectionable, I don't see any problem making the distinction.

 

[Mickmse2002]

Quadman didn't find it the least bit difficult, and neither do I.

The casual renter offers his/her own points for rental on a sporadic basis.

The professional renter deals with many thousands of points, either purchased under multiple contracts for the sole purpose of renting, or solicited from members wishing to rent, or both. S/He posts scores of rental ads, essentially operating a business somewhat similar to those that handle timeshare resales, only dealing with rentals.

Whether or not one finds this activity objectionable, I don't see any problem making the distinction.

I am not trying to defend "professional renters" I just wonder how big a problem it really is? Is there any empirical evidence available to support the argument? The only point I was/am trying to make is we tend to see many very pointed and passionate posts about this evil practice and yet everyone has the same opportunity to book any room with their points.

 

[RuthnPaul]

We purchased several contracts this past year that had banked points. Because we knew we would be unable to use all of these points, we decided to rent a number of them. Some people who want to rent points are fairly knowledgeable of the point system including cancellation policies while others are definitely NOT informed. After spending considerable time the last few weeks to rent out these points, there is NO way I would ever consider doing this as a business and I don't think most members would either!!

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

I agree w/RuthnPaul. We were seriously considering an add-on but after looking at the big picture we decided against it as there would definitely be times we would have to rent points and don't really want to travel down that road. We'll just try to make the most of what we've got (for now anyway!).

 

[Doctor P]

I think the problem of commercial rentals is much larger than one would think, but it is still probably a drop in the bucket with 90,000 members. I can name easily a dozen persons I am familiar with who are clearly running a business renting points, and that is just from being observant and watching patterns.

 

[erikthewise]

It is a drop in the bucket if randomly distributed. But part of Quadman's original point (IMO) was that it is not likely to be randomly distributed. As few as 10K points spent to grab rooms at a particular resort for a couple days can have a significant impact on availability. And you can bet it will be at popular times because they will bring the best price.